Time to reassess minutes: Edited

by Idog1976 on Dec 14, 2008 4:07 PM PST

EDIT: To preface this post, this is a stop gap measure until one of the following happens; Batum starts to contribute again and/or Outlaw gets out of his funk and/or Martell gets healthy and/or we trade for a starting quality small forward.

The answer I think is to perma-bench Channing until further notice. You would then move Batum to 2nd Unit and redistribute minutes. It would look like this:

Starters-

PG - Blake 24 minutes

SG - Rudy 24 minutes

SF - Roy 30 minutes (By the way Roy has seen his greatest success this season as a SF someone posted about this awhile ago in something titled our Best SF)

PF - LMA 24 minutes

C – Oden 24 minutes

~~Bench mob~~ 2nd unit/ guys who spell the starters not necessarily all playing together at the same time.:

PG - Sergio 10 minutes SG - Sergio 6 minutes

SG - Bayless 10 minutes PG Bayless 6 minutes

SF - Batum 10 minutes (Roy would pick up some of his minutes above here to stabilize the second unit. Also Batum has hit the rookie wall. He and Fernandez can battle for SF minutes depending on who is more effective and/or situational needs Defense vs. Offense.)

PF - 16 Outlaw (the #1 scoring option which he likes and his favorite postion PF picking on slower 2nd unit PF's)

C - Przybilla 16 minutes

Kill unit last 8 minutes of 4th quarter:

PG - Roy 8 minutes

SG - Blake / Sergio 8 minutes (for whoever is hotter situational needs)

SF - Rudy 8 minutes

PF - LMA 8 minutes

C - Joel/Oden 8 minutes (for whoever is hotter/ less fouls)

I think the above would solve alot of problems. It cuts into Outlaws minutes but frankly I haven’t liked what I’ve seen this year other then beyond the arc. he might very well fight back into more minutes with more touches in the 2nd unit. This gives us a LETHAL starting unit which is more or less identical to the finishing unit other then at center. You can of course change that unit depending on heath check and foul trouble.

It's past the quarter season mark and we need to make changes and start developing our young guys now that the schedule will allow for it. Also Batum and Rudy as mentioned above have hit the Euro-wall and will need to split minutes to keep them fresh. I also want to state the 2nd unit might not always play together just as it is now. Rudy and Sergio would get maybe 10 minutes a game together which is cutting it down but I think would be worth it to develop Bayless. Mostly this is to get Bayless on the floor while cutting down Frye and Batum's (who needs more rest) minutes. Thoughts?

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Comments

Well thought out

Channing has been in a prolonged funk, and a lot of people here (myself included) don’t think he can be effective as a 5 mpg player. Bayless should get some court time to see what he can do. Obviously, things can be adjusted on a game by game basis, but this is a good starting point.

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 14, 2008 4:21 PM PST reply actions

That looks like an awesome way

to lose basketball games. 3 guards for that many minutes together is ridiculous. Breaking up the Rudy Sergio tandem is ridiculous. Putting Bayless at the 2 with Sergio at the 1 at the same time is a great way to give up tons of points. Having Sergio, Przy and Batum (3 non shooting weapons) on the court is a great way to not score points. I guess with this lineup we could get back into the lottery. In a way that would be a positive.

by as11osu on Dec 14, 2008 4:23 PM PST reply actions

Look at the minute distribution

Batum isn’t getting much court time as a starter as is, Rudy/Roy/PG (Sergio or Blake) have been playing together a good chunk lately, and the way Channing has been playing (coupled with his FA status) isn’t exactly inspiring confidence. I infer Sergio 6 mpg at SG as time where Bayless/Roy is handling the ball, they’ve been doing that with Roy on the floor anyway. I don’t think he’s saying the Blazers are doing line changes with all the subs in at once, he’s just proposing a way to get Jerryd on the court at the expense of Frye, which at this juncture I have no beef with

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 14, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions

Why he name it the 2nd unit then?

Bench mob 2nd unit:

Wouldn’t that just be backups? Any minutes where J-Bay and Sergio are on the court at the same time are misused. Any reduction of Rudy-Sergio minutes is a bad idea. Any time a combo of Joel Nicolas and Sergio are on the court at the same time represents utter and total basketball inefficiency from the offensive end. I’d need to see the line changes… but I doubt any of this would lead to anything but a couple extra L’s.

by as11osu on Dec 14, 2008 4:44 PM PST up reply actions

Semantics

Of course there are things everyone would tweak based on their personal preference, i.e. I’d leave Batum as a starter with his current minutes and budget a bit more time for Outlaw. However, I like the overall idea of what he’s getting at, especially as a Bayless fan, and I like that he’s taking the minutes for Bayless mostly from Frye, who hasn’t looked good in his role and is more likely than not to walk at the end of the year if he isn’t part of a deal.

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 14, 2008 4:56 PM PST up reply actions

If you allow those minutes coming from Frye to go to Bayless

you’re also giving those minutes to Bayless as the teams SG. I don’t a lot of people advocating for Bayless want him to be a SG unless the PG at the time is Roy.

by as11osu on Dec 14, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions

He would instantly get a lot of minutes on SG if (god forbid) Roy or Rudy would miss games

His ability to play both PG and SG is another thing that could make him highly valuable. There are a few teams that can and occasionally do use their PG that way (Kidd, Arenas, Iverson, Ellis once he is back…) but not many.

Viva la Rudylucion

by Norsktroll on Dec 14, 2008 5:45 PM PST up reply actions

This is exactly

why I’m saying Bayless as a point guard/Shooting guard role with Sergio. It’s the closest thing to playing with Roy. When Roy gets spot minutes with the second unit at the 3 then Bayless could get a chance to play with the real deal. PG/SG is Bayless’ future role on this team he needs to get minutes now to facciliate that. You could shave them down more and that might be a good idea. He needs at least 6 to 12 minutes of regular rotation time to develop imho. I think with Roy on the floor and vs second unit guys this is the way you get him time without punishing Sergio’s great work this year or taking away from Blake. Also you make Travis the MAN on the 2nd unit which was EXTREMELY effective last year and might bring him out of his slump.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 14, 2008 6:00 PM PST up reply actions

Interesting

I was a little worried about big guard combos if we went Bayless/Sergio (that’s why I was saying keep Batum in the 1st unit) but I agree the primary thing at this point is too get him court time and go from there. Again, good thinking

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 14, 2008 6:09 PM PST up reply actions

Bayless and Outlaw

would be doing the scoring damage. One from range and the other slashing. I don’t think the drop off would be as bad as you seem to think. Also the defense of the second unit would improve. Rudy and Sergio would see the floor together sometimes. Also Roy is the best SF on the team per a post by sonofagun. I will edit the above to reflect these points.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 14, 2008 5:54 PM PST up reply actions

When Roy is classified as a SF

it typically tends to be at the end of games with Blake and Rudy in the game as well. When in reality he is the teams PG. You don’t want to put that kind of pressure on Roy out there for the whole of games, or even a majority. He’s good in that role to close out games, because he has the ball in his hands. The fact that he’s so good when given the SF designation has a lot more to do with our style and tendencies in the closing minutes than his actual ability to play extended minutes at the 3 and defend the position as well (most teams go to player in the closing minutes isn’t their SF).

by as11osu on Dec 14, 2008 6:02 PM PST up reply actions

Doesn't

that make him a point forward? I agree with not grinding down Roy at the 3. This is just a stop gap until Martell comes back or if/when we get a starting quality SF in a trade.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 14, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions

"Bench Mob" is the Lakers' name, pick another...

"Now with a non-provocative footer!"

by timbo on Dec 14, 2008 5:26 PM PST reply actions

LOL

Well 2nd unit then White Unit whatever.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 14, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions

fixed this grievous error timbo

my bad.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 14, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions

L*ckers stole that from the Kings

It’s time a team that isn’t pure evil take it back :)

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 14, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions

Why

Did I just hear the Emporer croon “Good… GOOD… Release your anger…”?

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on Dec 14, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions

If Phillip shoots B Roy with lightning bolts

during the conference semis, I’m flagging this post.

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 14, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions

I don't know about this

I do feel that Sergio had done well enough to have decent backup pg minutes. I am not sure the same can be said for Bayless. I think Bayless will be a good player and I want him to be developed, but I don’t think Bayless needs to be forced in the line up at any cost. All the Bayless supporters are are coming up with plans to get him time. All the Sergio supporters are coming up with stats showing that he is better than he is given credit for. Some of those stats are stretches, some are good. I think that the majority of people agree that Sergio is much improved on defense this year, and scoring. I like when sergio and brandon are in at the same time. Bayless will get his shot. He will get time with each injury, and garbage time. I think that if he was showing exceptional talent and superior skill he would have already taken time from blake and sergio. I am not sure sergio and bayless on the court at the same time it a great idea. I think 10 pg mins a game each for sergio and bayless will only make both suffer. I think Bayless is doing a great job of being patient, and I respect that. I think If Bayless thought that he belonged on the court and a great injustice was being done , he would not be so patient.

by twggyy on Dec 14, 2008 8:47 PM PST reply actions

P.S.

I like Blake, but in the future, I would like to see Bayless start, if he can learn to pass, with Sergio as the back up. Blake as all around back up at pg and sg. In a year or two. Unless Blake really improves in defense and running pick and roll.

by twggyy on Dec 14, 2008 8:51 PM PST reply actions

I just feel like

the longer we wait the harder it will be to justify giving bayless minutes. The reason I say this is why give a rookie or second year player minutes when we are in win in the playoffs NOW mode next year? This year we’re hoping for an appearance and it isn’t guaranteed. Next year is the earliest we can truly hope to compete. The further along we move the less likely we are to play Bayless and Sergio because Nate won’t want to risk the mistakes, this is especially true for a minutes-on-the-court-starved Bayless.

Nate overlooks talent for experience and wants to work in rookies at the point extremely slowly. Nate also is only in win now mode. This is our final full fledged year of development where making the playoffs is a luxury. Unless you think we are beating LA and Boston/Cleveland for the ring this year we might as well work on development. I don’t say kill games intentionally just that when you are playing against chumpier teams give the rookies more minutes when it matters.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 14, 2008 9:31 PM PST up reply actions

my god

I want to have your children

I have my P.h.D in unreliable hyperbole.

by Eat Politicians on Dec 15, 2008 1:30 AM PST reply actions

Benching Frye is a good start

He’s pretty awful. His one talent is bombing up long-distance two-pointers but lately he can’t even hit those And his shot selection has gone from questionable to ridiculous.

Also cutting Outlaw’s minutes sounds good. Whatever optimism I had earlier this season about his improved decision-making has vanished. He barely looks like an NBA player the last few games.

I don’t get why we are keeping Bayless on the bench. Blake is still just ok and Sergio, while improving, still can’t shoot or play defense consistently. What do we have to lose by getting our first-round pick a few minutes?

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Dec 15, 2008 1:18 PM PST reply actions