Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Full Coverage Of New York's Victory Celebration

0809_trailblazers_logo

What are the factors of having a large market in the NBA?

I'm really interested to hear what people have to say about the topic simply because I feel that here in Portland we have alot of the factors that make up a sizable market here.

Does it really come down to just having a larger populated city?

Some of my thoughts are:
1. having an extremely loyal fan base (check!)
2. having an owner who will do whatever he can for the team to be successful? (check! no pun inteded)
3. having lots of games televised nationally? (we have had alot of games this year on ESPN and TNT, more than i ever remember seeing in the past)
4. creating national buzz and headlines on a consistant basis? (for good reasons)

What do you all think the factors are in being a large market in the NBA?

(All hidden behind the premise that I think it would be possible to get LeBron James to come here but that isn't the purpose of this thread, ill post more about that after i see what people have to say about this topic first)

about 3 years ago Best_picture_tiny Flair 17 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

LARGE

Dude, what makes a large market is that it is large. lol

by shamman on Dec 14, 2008 12:18 PM PST reply actions  

define "large market" for me

the obvious answer doesn’t exactly help out for what im trying to gether

by Flair on Dec 14, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

There no bright-line rule or definition or a "large market"

It’s more of a sliding scale from “larger” to “smaller”. Portland is on the “smaller” end of the scale. But there’s no magical cut off number that makes a market large.

Rank Metropolitan Area Metropolitan Division State(s) Population
1 New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island NY–NJ–PA 18,815,988
  
2 Los Angeles–Long Beach–Santa Ana CA 12,875,587
  
3 Chicago–Naperville–Joliet IL–IN–WI 9,524,673
  
4 Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington TX 6,145,037
  
5 Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington PA–NJ–DE–MD 5,827,962
  
6 Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown TX 5,628,101

7 Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Pompano Beach FL 5,413,212
  
8 Washington–Arlington–Alexandria DC–VA–MD–WV 5,306,565
  
9 Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Marietta GA 5,278,904

10 Boston–Cambridge–Quincy MA–NH 4,482,857
  
11 Detroit–Warren–Livonia MI 4,467,592
  
12 San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont CA 4,203,898
  
13 Phoenix–Mesa–Scottsdale AZ 4,179,427

14 Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario CA 4,081,371

15 Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue WA 3,309,347
  
16 Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington MN–WI 3,208,212
17 San Diego–Carlsbad–San Marcos3 CA 2,974,859
18 St. Louis MO–IL 2,803,707
19 Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater FL 2,723,949
20 Baltimore–Towson MD 2,668,056
21 Denver–Aurora CO 2,464,866
22 Pittsburgh PA 2,355,712
23 Portland–Vancouver–Beaverton OR–WA 2,175,113
24 Cincinnati–Middletown OH-KY-IN 2,133,678
25 Cleveland–Elyria–Mentor OH 2,096,471

Out of the top 25 metro areas in the US, Portland is No. 23. MJ’s number. Lebron’s as well!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 14, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

You have some good points, but Portland remains one of the smaller markets in the NBA

The good play of the Blazers certainly helps to increase the value. The fact that they are virtually the only game in town and the team owns its arena (again) helps a lot. A team like the Knicks or Clippers wouldn’t survive long in Portland, whereas in NY and LA they can still attract a lot of customers to fill big arenas.

Viva la Rudylucion

by Norsktroll on Dec 14, 2008 12:30 PM PST reply actions  

So what would make them larger?

is there anything that they can do to make themselves into a large franchise in the NBA or is it just destined to be NY, Bos, LA and the like that will always be large market teams?

by Flair on Dec 14, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Amount of big name businesses make a difference too

being able to sell out those suites and create a demand for them helps the team. Also ‘large’ can mean number of people attending the game, and number watching on TV. Just becasue we are on national tv a lot doesn’t mean we get the same number of viewers as a LA or Boston game. You could also add number of newspapers and TV stations that cover the team. A lot of it also has to be national perception and east coast bias. When people think of th ewest coast they thing of LA, San Fran, and Seattle. Portland doesn’t have a big enough appeal

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Dec 14, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Can having Seattle without a team now make our market larger?

What has Portland done to reach out to them ? (TV and newspaper coverage seems like its next to nil) My fiance lives up in Seattle for the time being and whenever i read the Seattle newspaper there is just a very gross overview of all of basketball, not even an emphasis on Oklahoma City. Seems to me that Portland fans also find themselves fans of the Seahawks and Mariners, but no reciprocation when it comes to the Blazers this year. Hard to believe when we have Nate, Roy, and even Webster who either played or coached in Seattle for a time. They are essentially their guys and im just dumbfounded why they dont keep up with them.

I tell ya though, the more i see the games that are televised, the more i see fans wearing Blazers gear at away games. Thats very encouraging that our fans aren’t centralized in the OR, WA area and is getting out there and supporting our Blazers.

Thank you for your answer its starting to become clear to me what the definition means.

by Flair on Dec 14, 2008 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Make Babies!

When they talk about market size the defining factor is the population of the surrounding metro area. This skews against Portland IMO because rarely does the affect of other teams in the area come into play and Blazer fans span the ENTIRE PNW (especially w/ Seattle out of a team).

by Devenex on Dec 14, 2008 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

love it!

For the sake of your fandom and our future large marketability make more babies!

by Flair on Dec 14, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Portland's problem

Portland attracts a different type of person than a place like Oklahoma City. Portland attracts people that have no qualms about using contraception, people that are homosexual, and people that frequent Planned Parenthood clinics like they’re a barber shop.

Thus, Portland makes less babies.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 14, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Take a look at the Forbes team valuations

http://www.forbes.com/sportsbusiness/2008/12/03/business-basketball-nba-biz-sports-nba08-cz_kb_mo_cs_1203intro.html

The city (= ability to fill a large arena + sell a lot of merch) has a lot to do with it, in some cases more so than the quality of the team. NY, LA (Lakers), Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland (that would probably be helped a lot by the LeBron effect), Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Boston (they don’t own their arena), San Antonio, Toronto, Miami, … Portland is #20, which is a big improvement in recent year and in fact they made the largest jump in value last year. I think Utah might be the best-ranked small-market team, at #14.

Another factor to attract free agents: Taxes, which benefits Miami and Orlando (and the climate, which also benefits Phoenix).

P.S.: I think the chance to attract LeBron is fairly small, since he is NOT all about winning titles

Viva la Rudylucion

by Norsktroll on Dec 14, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice link

I think if anyone had the option buying the Blazers stock for the next years we would all be millionaires. 21% jump is incredible! Merchandise is a suprising figure. Well i know for a fact that alot of my friends and family that live up in Seattle have bought Blazers gear in the past year (not to mention im getting my fiance a jersey for x-mas, dont worry she doesn’t read these boards!) The hype on Portland right now is pretty high. Who doesn’t want to see Roy, Oden, Aldridge, The Spanish Highlight Reel, and game winning shot after game winning shot by our incredible team.

I wonder how Nike and Adidas fits into our small market, as far as huge merchandise they are the epitome of the basketball world. Both of which have either their headquarters or US headquarters here in the Portland area.

by Flair on Dec 14, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Nike is just historically in the area, and for Adidas it makes sense to keep a close eye on their rival ;-)
Just like in Germany Adidas and Puma headquarters are right across the street (founded by brothers).

Viva la Rudylucion

by Norsktroll on Dec 14, 2008 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

The thing about Nike

It’s really the only Fortune 500 company based in Portland. I listened to an interview by Merritt Paulson last week (he’s the son of Treasury Sec. Henry “Hank” Paulson and owner of the minor league baseball and soccer teams in Portland). Paulson is trying to bring Major League Soccer to Portland. When asked, “Why not Major League Baseball?” his response is that Portland doesn’t have enough big companies.

Corporate sponsorship matters. Ginormous corporations can easily sign $5 million per year sponsorship/advertising deals with teams. Even if you sell out the Rose Garden all season, the total gate receipts will only be $40 million. So the more corporate sponsors you can get, the better.

Portland, even when taking into account it’s size, doesn’t have as many big companies as you’d suspect. Nike is the only major company based here. Sure, Intel (largest employer I believe) and Adidas conduct major operations here, but they still don’t call Portland “home”.

Fortune 500 Companies in Portland:

1 Nike 153 16,325.9 Beaverton
2 Precision Castparts 444 5,414.1 Portland

Compare that to other cities similar to Portland in size, like Cincinnati:

2 Procter & Gamble 23 76,476.0 Cincinnati
3 Kroger 26 70,234.7 Cincinnati
4 Macy’s 91 26,340.0 Cincinnati

And I cut off their smaller Fortune 500 companies.

Even Seattle, that is only 50% bigger in population, has way more big companies:

1 Costco Wholesale 29 64,400.2 Issaquah
2 Microsoft 44 51,122.0 Redmond
3 Washington Mutual 97 25,531.0 Seattle
4 Weyerhaeuser 147 16,871.0 Federal Way
5 Paccar 169 15,221.7 Bellevue
6 Amazon.com 171 14,835.0 Seattle
7 Starbucks 277 9,411.5 Seattle
8 Nordstrom 299 8,828.0 Seattle
9 Safeco 388 6,208.8 Seattle
10 Expeditors International of Washington 458 5,235.2 Seattle

Thus, it’s not easy being a major league team in Portland.

Things that make Portland a great place to live are not always conducive to breeding a healthy major league sports franchise.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 14, 2008 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Excellent information

So it seems to me that we will most likely always be a “small market” simply due to the economics of the city. Thats a bummer.

P.S. Was talking to some family and friends about this whole discussion and ive gathered that one of THE biggest reasons is luxury suites. The bigger the companies in the area, the more likely that all the suites will be sold out for each and every event (not just Blazer games) @ the RG. Just a little sad that Portland throws big corporations away, I was told that Microsoft originally wanted to set up shop here in Portland as well as Boeing. How big of a difference that would have made to the whole dynamics of the NW if they would have stayed here. Someone needs to think up the next BIG thing and have it home grown in Portland so we can create a larger market for our Blazers…not that the sole purpose for creating a business in Portland would help the Blazers but its a nice idea if they are hardcore enough fans :)

I know im going to stay here once i get out of Grad school and have my own business when i become a sports chiropractor and work for the Blazers along with team doctors!

by Flair on Dec 14, 2008 5:28 PM PST reply actions  

It's pretty easy

Small Market:
MARKET

Large Market:

Every night the team scores 100 points is sort of a mini-Hispanic night.........all the fans get free Chalupas. --Bust a Bucket

by prezofdeath on Dec 14, 2008 5:57 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Ticket prices

More people = more demand for tickets = higher prices.

This is generally contingent upon the team being good, of course.

by erastus25 on Dec 15, 2008 10:48 PM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The ultimate coverage and analysis of the Portland Trail Blazers.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Thunderous Manboobies
Img_0878_1__small
Why do we hate LaMarcus Aldridge?
Small
Oregonlive "journalists" 2 new posts...same old drivel
2474796688_7cdc78828f_o_small
Greg Oden Suffers Life-Ending Injury; Gets 3-Year Extension
Cap004_small
A Running Team should Know How to Finish the Fast Break

Recent FanPosts

My-top-20-shaw-brothers-kung-fu-films_small
When Life Hands You Lemons... BLAME THE REFS
Dali_gala_lincoln_small
Don't blame the bad goaltending call
Small
I Want My Block!
Small
Should Goaltending be reviewable?
Small
Trade Drawer
Blazers_birdman_is_not_welcome_here_pic_small
Serious Injuries to Danilo Gallinari and Chauncey Billups
Suit_small
Woulda, shoulda, coulda
Small
Freeland agent's turn to play with Blazers's back office's nerves
Bns_small
The "Improve the team" Thread 2/5

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

In 2008 Tim Donaghy indicated that Scott Foster was a ref that also fixed games
Blazers Owner Paul Allen Ranked No. 3 American Philanthropist In 2011
Rhino
I'm sure you've all heard the news by now that I'm having a scope on my...
Since everybody else was showing off their art I thought I'd join the crowd with my Felton picture.

Recent FanShots

Four Haikus About Bonzi Wells
ESPN Insider: Batum ranked number 21 out of 25 best players under age 25
Sick of seeing the Sonics fans.
New format for rookie/sophomore game
LaMarcus Aldridge vs. Kevin Love nba.com poll
L.A. Getting some love from Dirk
Earl Watson Underwent Laser Therapy On Sprained Ankle (ATTN: Ray Felton)
Chat with Michael Wilbon: I asked a question and got a decent answer.
Arenas holding open workout

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Editors

Kitten_small Dave

Headshotsmall_small Ben Golliver

Lead Moderators

Getfuzzy-satchel_small Timmay!

Bucky3_small Cablinasian

Authors

Plainlc_small Storyteller

Moderators

Lamb_small T Darkstar

Small douglast

Terryporter_small prezofdeath

Small usmcr3049

Lrg_magpie_small Corvid

Wallpaper_small geoffm