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Weekend Trade Bin (Edited)

Hi all. Well my trade machine finger is itchy so here goes..

EDIT: If you don't like the first idea skip to the second beyond the other EDIT. I get that it's too much of a loss for Phoenix.

This first idea - I encourage other ideas below - is a three way trade between Portland, the Bobcats and Suns and looks thusly:

KP loves 3-ways!

Phoenix in:

Raymond Felton (PG)
RLEC
Travis Outlaw (SF/PF)


Phoenix Out:

Steve Nash (PG)
Leandro Barbosa (SG)


Phoenix reloads on the youth front and gets a talented PG/SG (Felton) in the TP mold. It also fulfills Amare's dream of being the MAN on Phoenix, gets a possible starting SF or back up PF to spell Amare in Outlaw and cap flexibility to resign Amare early for Max contract. Phoenix remains a contender and sheds age and salary.

Charlotte In:

Ike Diogu (PF)
Channing Frye (PF)
Steve Blake (SG/PG)
Leandro Barbosa (SG)


Charlotte Out:

Gerald Wallace (SF)
Raymond Felton (PG)
Nazr Mohammed (C)


Charlotte loses the big drag on capspace in Nazr and Wallace. They get a solid PG who can be a role player in Blake along with a reliable SG in Barbossa to go alongside DJ Augustin. They also shore up their weakest position PF with Channing Frye and Ike Diogu both of whom might flourish with good minutes.

Portland In:

Steve Nash (PG)
Gerald Wallace (SF)
Nazr Mohammed (C)


Portland Out:

Ike Diogu (PF)
Raef LaFrentz (contract)
Steve Blake (PG)
Channing Frye(PF)
Travis Outlaw (SF/PF)


This consolidates Portland's roster and gives us a shot at winning right now while still keeping our young core intact. All in all I think this is a grandslam for Portland.

I'm not sure Charlotte would go for it but on the other hand they just might. I think it would benefit all teams in getting what they want and need to do. Phoenix gets younger and has flexibility. Charlotte shores up positions it needs help with and sheds salary. Portland gains experience and opens their window immediately.

What do you guys think?

Or as pointed out by blazeraddict the following trades are more likely to tempt Phoenix but probably still not enough...

Alternately you could do this trade and also give Phoenix Sergio.

Or Alternate version 2 where Phoenix gets Bayless instead of Sergio with things other wise the same.

EDIT:



Some think the above is way too heavily weighted in Portland's favor. What about this trade then?

KP STILL loves 3-ways

Portland In:

Mike Conley Jr. (PG/Oden's buddy and 2nd or 3rd string pg allowing Sergio and Bayless to develop while helping our Big Fella be happier right away.)

Gerald Wallace (SF)

Nazr Mohammed (Salary anchor 3rd string Center heaven forbid we need it)

Darrel Arthur (PF who gives us a new look down low)

Portland Out:

RLEC

Ike Diogu (PF)

Steve Blake (PG)

Travis Outlaw (SF/PF)

Channing Frye (PF)

Rights to Petteri Kopponen/Joel Freeland

Charlotte Out:

Gerald Wallace (SF)

Raymond Felton (PG)

Alexis Ajinca(C)

Nazr Mohammed (Salary anchor C)

Charlotte In:

Cash Compensation (Don't underestimate this in value to an owner who is losing money)

Ike Diogu(PF)

Rights to Petteri Koponen (PG)

Travis Outlaw (SF/PF)

Rights to Joel Freeland (PF)

Steve Blake (PG)

RLEC (Salary relief)

Memphis in:

Raymond Felton (PG)

Channing Frye (PF)

Alexis Ajinca (C)

Memphis Out:

Mike Conley (PG they are shopping)

Darrell Arthur (PF)

For Portland this consolidates our roster, fills in our biggest weakness at SF. Gives us a young post player to back up LMA. And possibly the greatest help we can give to a despairing Oden. A close friend who can give him a confidence boost. Portland has coveted Conley in the past and I trust KP to see something that perhaps I don't.

For Charlotte you shed Salary get a reliable veteran who doesn't complain in Steve Blake. You shore up the PF with Ike Diogu. Get a versatile SF/PF swing man who can score and hit the bigtime shot in Outlaw. Get massive salary cap relief by dumping Wallace and getting RLEC and get some long shot talent to develop in PetKo (PG) and Joel Freeland (PF). Finally, you get some cash to help staunch the financial bleeding.

For Memphis you upgrade your PG signifigantly with Felton, you get a long range bombing PF in Frye who can open up the inside and draw out the opposing PF to give Gay and Mayo room to operate. You also get a young Center project in Ajinca. Memphis gives up little and gets an upgrade in talent at PG that might really help your chemistry.

Comment 64 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Worst trade in PHX history...

and they’re the ones that gave us Rudy….

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 4:43 PM PST reply actions  

Look at this way

Instead of losing Nash and Amare. You are gaining Felton and signing Amare for the price of LB and Nash (Who will leave regardless in 2 years) you also get a chance to sign other players with RLEC plus Nash cap space.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

PHX has to do something to their core...

its Nash or Amare at this point. This way they have you have youth and flexibility.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Amare's problems

aren’t with Nash. They’re with the Suns as a whole. Trading Nash and LB for nothing would do nothing but make Amare realize he has to get out of dodge ASAP.

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

but they ARE

with Nash. W/O Nash he is the MAN, his stated ambition…

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

here's the money quote

When asked about his situation, Stoudemire said, "You’ve got LeBron James who’s a featured guy. You’ve got Dwyane Wade. He’s a featured guy. Dwight Howard? They go to him. Chris Bosh? They go to him.

“Bottom line: I want to be that guy. I want to show the league and the world that I feel like my game has improved to that level.”

Per ESPN.com the second link

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Another money quote

that shows Phoenix is in danger of losing Amare if something drastic doesn’t happen soon.

Again from the ESPN.com article linked above:


Asked whether he thinks about his own availability in 2010, Stoudemire didn’t hesitate: "Absolutely! You have to look at those opportunities because this is a business and you want to explore every option. I guarantee you every owner will explore their options, especially when a player’s contract is up. So it’s the same for players. It’s definitely the same for me.

“As a player, you should look at the teams you might want to play for. The city you may want to live in. The system you may want to play in. The economy. The cost of living. Everything. It’s about what’s best for you.”
Are you listening, Phoenix? Rest assured, 29 other teams certainly are.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Um

Nash is THE face of the Phoenix Suns. So if he goes who would it be? Perhaps they would plaster the big cactus all over? I swear you are just being difficult!

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Big Blazers - Bobcats - Grizzlies deal repost from Darius article

Variant 1 (Frye lands in Charlotte, Outlaw in Memphis)

Variant 2 (The other way around – probably better fit to the needs of the teams and value of the players)

Note: Walker is effectively an expiring contract, since his last two years are unguaranteed.
Note for Sergio disciples: The deal also would work with Blake landing in Memphis, though the Blazers have previously declined that request from the Grizzlies

Viva la Rudylucion

by Norsktroll on Dec 13, 2008 4:55 PM PST reply actions  

I have yet to be convinced

even to the slightest degree that the Bobcats are willing to give up their 2nd best player and their 1st round pick for an expiring contract and a player signed for only one more year. That literally would parallel last years worst trades ever (Harris, Gasol).

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Marc Stein reports trade talks around him. And they are just one source

Weekend Dime

Sources say Charlotte remains highly confident that it can follow up the Richardson deal by finding a taker for versatile swingman Gerald Wallace, despite the prospect of three seasons at $9.5 million each left on Wallace’s contract beyond this season. It’s believed that teams interested in trying to pry Raymond Felton away from the Bobcats instead of Wallace — Portland has been mentioned — have to be willing to take back mothballed center Nazr Mohammed (owed a combined $13.4 million in 2009-10 and 2010-11) thanks to Felton’s improvement since being moved to shooting guard alongside rookie point guard D.J. Augustin. One source close to the situation said new Bobcats coach Larry Brown already had been grinding on vets such as Richardson and Wallace, which has apparently exacerbated Brown’s famed penchant for wanting to make changes.

Viva la Rudylucion

by Norsktroll on Dec 13, 2008 5:03 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

part of the inspiration for this idea.

Thanks for the posts and input Norkstroll :)

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Felton is a booby prize.

Apparently the guy is playing better at SG? If that isn’t a red flag I don’t know what is. STAY AWAY!

Wallace would be nice for the right price.

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

but you want a sg/pg next to

Roy. I’m not a felton fan many are

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Felton, if he's playing better at SG than PG

is Jarrett Jack. Felton isn’t a very good shooter, and thus, when the team is better with him at SG than with him at PG it tells me that they get better just by not having him as their PG.

That was a little too confusing… let me map this thing out…

Felton is a bad PG. Felton is a bad shooter. When Felton moves from PG to SG the team gets better. And thus… Felton is a REALLY bad PG.

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 5:16 PM PST up reply actions  

He's two years older than Sergio

STILL has no 3 point shot, still can’t shoot well from the floor, got moved from PG to SG (despite being a horrible shooter)… etc

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not a Felton defender

just thought it was interesting how close their PERs have trended.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 13, 2008 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Not a big fan of Felton either if at the same time Wallace might be in discussion

Sure a few years younger than Blake, but not a good shooter. I don’t think he is anything close to championship material.

Viva la Rudylucion

by Norsktroll on Dec 13, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Nash is too old to fit our window

Sorry. Max age for anybody we’ll want to trade for is 30 and that’s pushing it.

whaa happen?

by Toby on Dec 13, 2008 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

Mentor for oue young guys

Nash > Blake and championship window now. We get playoff exp and fill our two holes, PG and SF without touching our core. This trade might be bad but not Portland’s end…

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Disagree

Nash would open the window next year, imo. And regardless of which young guy they gave up (Sergio or Bayless would probably need to go – but I’d lobby hard to keep Bayless) Portland would have a young, legit backup for Nash (something he hasn’t had in Phoenix – Barbosa can maybe go 10 mpg at the 1) who could learn the position from the master and keep him fresh/extend his productivity by being able to go 20+ mpg if necessry.

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 13, 2008 11:55 PM PST up reply actions  

im sorry i dont agree

nash contract is up in what 2 yrs?
nash would make us a contender now and if not in 2yrs baylees should be ready

by blazerchamp on Dec 14, 2008 1:43 AM PST up reply actions  

let me explain

Charlotte gets players Larry Brown would love as well as some nice young players. Portland gets Wallace and Nash. The Suns get cap relief and some solid players.
Portland rotation
Pg: Nash/Rodriguez
Sg: Roy/Fernandez
Sf: Wallace/Batum/Martell
Pf: Aldridge/Wallace
C: Oden/Pryzbilla

by SuperCrazy on Dec 13, 2008 5:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Those

are both decent. I don’t like giving up Bayless though.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 5:55 PM PST up reply actions  

both these trades seem way off to me...

but if you’re using these players, Bayless is the one that ends up in PHX.

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Where are you

awesome trades? I’m not saying my trade is perfect and I think it definitely could use some help but I get that you can critique others but where is your contribution?

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

If you must know...

it won’t be up for another couple of days. BUT… it will include at least one trade with each of the 29 other teams.

Marathon trade action. If I’m going to do one of these, I’m going to put the requisite thought into it.

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Dude

I get that you don’t like the trade. Please don’t insult me by saying I didn’t put thought into it. Clearly it is imbalanced in Portland’s favor. check the edit above for another idea.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I just don't see the logic from PHX's end...

they have a severe downgrade at PG, that’ll have harder time getting Amare the ball, they get Trout, who is only useful occasionally offensively. He can’t help Amare out in anyway, but this trade will make Amare want to stay? They lose their two greatest assets (aside from Amare), just to essentially dump contracts. They’re too good to hit the scrap heap now, and if they did Amare would be gone, because no matter how much he wants to be THE MAN, he wants to win being the man too.

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough

how about the new trade offering above after the EDIT.

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong...

I like just about every part you have coming to the Blazers. I just don’t think you have us giving up enough to make it happen. I prefer when people with trade proposals have us giving up just a little more than the actual trade might be instead of just a little bit less. That way we have a better understanding of the cost, and are better equipped to handle actual trades. Anyone can make trades where our team benefits more, but the thing of it is, we’re going to be team initiating for the most part from this point on (because we’re the contender), and thus, will likely be the team giving up more talent, not less. I LOVE trade talk, I just like to come at it from a different angle.

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 6:48 PM PST up reply actions  

So you don't think

We’re giving up enough to get essentially. Conley and Wallace?

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess my question is

who is getting the raw deal here Charlotte? Who could be thrown in to make it work in your opinion or is it just unworkable?

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like Felton (first off)

Secondly, they’re not just giving up the 1st best asset in their deal, they’re giving up the 2nd best asset as well (Wallace and Ajinca). Teams generally don’t have a problem giving up the best asset in a deal to begin with, not to mention the two top assets. The players they’re getting in this deal are blah… none is a long term future player with them, and cap relief doesn’t help a team like Charlotte as much as it would a team in a major city that can draw free agents. In this trade at minimum they’re still owed a couple longer term assets (Bayless and Batum?)… and we just aren’t in a position to do that.

Charlotte Out:
Gerald Wallace (SF)
Raymond Felton (PG)
Alexis Ajinca©
Nazr Mohammed (Salary anchor C)

Charlotte In:
Cash Compensation (Don’t underestimate this in value to an owner who is losing money)
Ike Diogu(PF)
Rights to Petteri Koponen (PG)
Travis Outlaw (SF/PF)
Rights to Joel Freeland (PF)
Steve Blake (PG)
RLEC (Salary relief)

by as11osu on Dec 13, 2008 7:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn't know that

Ajinca was that highly valued. He was modest filler in my eyes. I will try something without Ajinca. I thought their bread and butter at center was Okafur?

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I just don't see it for Charlotte

I know they want young guys, and I have no idea what the contents of Jordan’s cigars really are based on some of the moves he’s made, but looking at this trade, one could argue there isn’t one bona fide starter in there for the Bobcats (that’s taking a harsh view on Blake, and looking at Batum today only, but it could be viewed that way).

Which is your main target, Nash or Wallace? I think it may be more feasible to do a 2 way swap, as at least then the counterparty (particularly Charlotte in the scenarios you’ve run) would be in a position to get something of value for their core player

Bayless has been testing the fences for weaknesses

by blazeraddict on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM PST up reply actions  

The trade for Nash

and Wallace is nice. We gotta have Nash. Can we somehow get Nash and Maxiell? Where’s the GreatDane?

by oregonslee on Dec 13, 2008 7:06 PM PST reply actions  

I know

we need MediocreDane17 at times like these…

He must actually have a life.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 13, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I do have to give the guy props though

for the sheer number of trade machine links he has provided. Even if I don’t agree with them, gotta give respect and mad ups for the sheer effort.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 13, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL

well said mad ups for the Dane!

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Dec 13, 2008 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Second deal = awesome for Memphis

Every night the team scores 100 points is sort of a mini-Hispanic night.........all the fans get free Chalupas. --Bust a Bucket

by prezofdeath on Dec 13, 2008 10:54 PM PST reply actions  

It's easy to envision KP

with two phones in his hans trying to bring home the bacon.

by oregonslee on Dec 14, 2008 10:48 AM PST reply actions  

I try and keep my trade posts in the correct place.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1994454279510158661710692&teams=24151522152224&te=&cash=
Doesn’t work today, but will tomorrow.
Add Kurt Thomas to Portland.

The Trade:
Portland gets Tony Parker, Thomas and Gadzuric. Portland buys out Thomas so he returns of S.A. before the playoffs.
San Antonio gets Redd, Blake and Thomas back in 30 days.
Milwaukee gets Webster and Massive cap help.

Why Portland does it. Gets someone great for RLEC.

Why S.A. does it. (I don’t think they would but…) They get a great player in Redd and some question if he really fits in S.A. I dug this up at the San Antonio blog.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2008/12/3/678807/the-case-for-against-tony

Why Milwaukee does it. They get a young and cheap replacement for Redd and a ton of cap help. (Cheap owner.)

I found this from Marc Stein.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-081213-14
Marc Stein:

• I don’t get the impression that Milwaukee’s Michael Redd is being shopped. I do get the impression that the Bucks will happily listen to Redd proposals if the phone rings, with two years and more than $35 million left on our beloved lefty’s contract after this season and with Richard Jefferson arriving in Brewtown in June with a contract in the same ballpark. “I think they think they’re the same team at this point with [Redd] or without him,” one rival-team official said of the Bucks.

KP has worked with both teams before. That’s got to be a plus.

by parkinglotj on Dec 14, 2008 9:54 PM PST reply actions  

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