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Trading Up

As much as I dislike raising trade possibilities which are supported only by speculation, two  indisputable circumstances suggest that a major move lies ahead for the Trailblazers. Both circumstances are obvious, and the possibilties seem very promising.

 

First,  the Blazers have too many talented players either to play or to hold. Brandon, Greg, LA, and Rudy all have all star potential. Joel and Steve are plainly assets. Travis, Martel, Sergio, Channin, and Nic all have obvious value. And, that list doesn't include Jerryd, who showed potential  during summer league and Ike. In total, we have 11 players who reasonably expect miunutes.

This situation is at best unstable. During the season, we can expect to play say nine, and during the playoffs  eight. At best, the players who don't play will either demand to be traded [ala Sergio] or will leave at their first glimpse of free agency.  At worst, they will over time create dissension. The obvious solution is a 2 or more likely 3 for 1 trade where we receive an upgrade for a starter's position. Of course the key question is who  might be available.

To answer this question, brings us to the second relevant circumstance; the  Blazers present situation makes possible the acquisition of a truly great player. Much talk about the Blazers upgrade possibilities has focused on the cap room [probably 20+ million] we will have after the 2009 season. I think that room may produce a  bounty but not for the obvious reason. First of all, the free agent players available next summer would not help us much if at all. We presently have great talent and I, like moany of you, would be content to wait to see who will rise to the top. Moreover, great talent seldom moves through free agency. The cap room required is too great and the putative acquiring team would have to  give up so much that the star player would likely find the team unattractive. Take for example New York and LeBron. Sure,  the Knicks play in a huge market but how likely is it that LeBron would be willing to go there to play with the remnants they have left? Is money what really motivates a player like LeBron?

No, the more likely path for start talent to move is through a trade. Sure,  on its face no team has incentive to trade great talent but if their star is going to move anyway, their more pressing need is to get something consequential in return. Minnesota didn't want to trade KG, but they did. The past is full of similar situations - Shaq [twice] and Kareem to name a few. And, the most pregnant time for such a trade is the year before the star will become a free agent. That is the moment when the star's team has the  leverage. At worst, they can play another year with the star all the time hoping for a change of heart. At best, they can command a premium for giving up something of great value that they don't have to deal.

 

Today, the Trailblazers have  extraordinary assets to offer. We can send  (1)  two or even three players who have already demonstrated promise [you pick from everyone other than Brandon, LA, Rudy and Greg],  plus (2) one high quality player [the obvious choice would be LA], plus (3) a fine collection of first and second round draft choices. All of the players would be young, which is an asset to the receiving team since they will necessarily be in the rebuilding mode. In addition, we can absorb a large salary differential because of our cap room. Can any team reasonably offer more? Could any team facing the inevitable loss of its star reasonalby refuse?

 

So who would be worth such a trade. Clearly only a superstar and a young versatile one at that. Take as an example LeBron. During the last two weeks he has gone on record to make clear that he will look out for his own interests in free agency. By his own intersts, LeBron said he will only go to a team that would offer the possibility of multiple championships.No matter what the headlines, that team will not be NY or Brooklyn. And, based on LeBron's criteria, no team has more to offer LeBron that the Blazers. Say just as an example we sent LA, Martel, Travis  and Bayless together with a bunch of other consideration. That would leave LeBron to play with Brandon, Greg, Rudy, Nic, Joel, Steve,  Channing and Sergio. Since all but two of those guys are under 24, LeBron would have much to look forward to. Also, he would have an owner who has shown he will not spare any expense if the talent warrants it.

Of course, a few details would be essential to make such a swap happen. Cleveland would have to be pretty certain that LeBron was lost to them. From our side, LeBron would have to commit to resigning as a part of the trade. But those points would be easy to address if a trade were in fact looming. And, such a possiblity seems realistic given LeBron's recenly expressed intentions.

 

Plainly, the LeBron scenario is no favorite. He is too talented and will be too desired for stiff compettiton not to assert itself. But, we will have to do something, we have much to offer and we have kevin Pritchard. If it's not LeBron that we go after, it will be some other star. The free agent field of 2010 has several other worthy offerings.

 

 

 

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Your key premise may be false

You state that the players who don’t get playing time will demand to be traded or will cause dissension. I’m not sure if this is true. Some of them might want to be traded, but I think some of them would be happy to stay in Portland because they love the city, the franchise, and the strong chance of getting a ring.

Consider Channing Frye. Would he demand a trade or cause dissension? I don’t think so. That dude would be happy being a career towel waver so long as he can do it from the Portland bench and so long as he can hang out with cool hippy chicks during the offseason.

Among the players who will likely get little or no playing time if they remain on the Blazers, the only one who will certainly favor a trade, IMO, is Bayless. Maybe Sergio too. The rest of them would accept pine rider status, albeit some more grudgingly than others.

Portland is a great city, Paul Allen is a great employer (arguably the best in the NBA), the practice facility and the private jet are fantastic amenities, the fans are the very best, and the team is a winner. The franchise as a whole is a class act. A total class act. Players really like it here. remember how bummed out Zbo was when he learned that he got traded? Remember how he tried to ingratiate himself to the front office? Of course, that might have been just because Portland has more strip clubs per capita than any other city in N. America, but still…

"I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point."

MT Suit, 11/25/08

by MT Suit on Dec 1, 2008 9:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sergio mentioned he doesnt need PT

He needed a bigger role and more confidence from his coach. If he was still averaging 9 mins a game, but 6 of it being in crunch time…I’m sure he would have been a little more content.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Dec 1, 2008 10:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As nice as this all sounds

I think, to put it bluntly, you are dreaming. These guys are at the highest level of their profession. They are young and hungry and want to prove they can play (and earn the next contract). To think they are going to sit happily by riding the pine is just silly.

Frye is the only one who I could reasonably say might be ok as a perpetual 10th man on our team. Sergio, Bayless, Batum, Martel, Outlaw – not so much. Oh, they will say the right things and play along for awhile, but they will bolt at contract time. Then we get nothing for them.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Dec 2, 2008 12:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rudy?

Rudy is from spain, not Portland. as much as we want him to love Portland, do you think for a minute he wouldn’t be excited to go somewhere and start? A big city?

He is a starter on 75% of teams.

I heart taxes.

by everett on Dec 2, 2008 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he is yet

Rudy’s good, but he’s still learning. He’s no where close to where many here think. He’s shown that he’ll dissappear at times. Once that stops, once he adjusts to the way Ds are treating him, he’ll be a starter. He’s too easy to stop right now.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Dec 2, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

trade to put us in contention w/o sacrificing our future

Blake/Bayless/Outlaw
for
Steve Nash

Gives them more half-court & shooting pieces, gets us experience, offensive flow, pick n roll master, and the ability to get our guys easy buckets (greatly accelerating GO and LMA development).

Nash/Sergio
Roy/Fernadnez
Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Frye
Oden/Pryzbilla

that’s a contender IMO. Nash has the swagger and experience (not to mention toughness) to put us right up there with the Lakers. After next season (Nash expires) we could renew him for cheaper or let him walk and rest with mainly going Roy and Rudy backcourt with Sergio as the third guard, we could sign a FA PG, and we can still develop Koponen, plus we have a 1st round pick and 4 seconds next season.

My personal favorite 2009-2010 team

Nash/Sergio/Aaron Miles/Koponen
Roy/Rudy
Batum/Webster/Desmond Mason
Aldridge/Frye
Oden/Pryzbilla/Freeland

with one free roster spot, that’s a good ratio of talent, complimentary players, vets, guys in their prime, and young guys. Oden would have a year of experience, Miles is local, Koponen is still aways away but gets acclimated to America, Freeland is high potential, and Desmond Mason is going for a ring (as a tough insurance player). Odds are one of Roy, Rudy, Webster, or Batum gets hurt at some point during the season for at least a little while getting him some time.

Nash gets to extend his career playing less minutes and not having to create everything every time down the floor. He gets to play with big scorers, perimeter scorers, and post defense at the same time for the first time in his career. And he gets open shots all day to show off his 4th best in NBA HISTORY 3 POINT PERCENTAGE.

My Favorite Non-Blazers: Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Allen Iverson, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'neal, Chris Bosh

by darkhelmit54 on Dec 1, 2008 9:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

no kidding

if they trade him i think it will be next year if they arent able to resign him. if they trade him THIS season they will want a whole lot more for him.

by Blazerland on Dec 1, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if they are contenders

i dont think they’ll trade him…but if they drop out of the playoff race i’m sure there will be a firesale in phx.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Dec 1, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe so, PHX might look to unload Nash

but its gonna take more than this.

I heart taxes.

by everett on Dec 2, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lets throw in Pryz and REC and get Shaq too

lol, Im not sure If Im joking or not

The pictures kinda small, but Im giving the C's a big thumbs down

by Blazermaniac77 on Dec 2, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how about

POR gets: Nash, Swift
POR trades: Blake, Raef, Bayless, Outlaw, 1st rounder

it’s the same deal as before for us (Swift is expiring)

NJ trades: VC, Swift
NJ receives: Raef, Bell, Outlaw, Bayless, 1st

They are competing right now (and might not make a deal) BUT they’re still not selling seats and this puts them back in the VC hunt W/more young players (and draft picks), while cutting a lot of salary.

PHX trades: Nash, Bell
PHX receives: VC, Blake

They desperately need a half-court scorer and slasher to compliment Shaq in the half-court game. Kerr makes his big mark instead of going down with the sinking ship and the fans get plenty of dunks. Blake is a decent shooter for them and lets VC do his thing while Blake defends better than Nash.

My Favorite Non-Blazers: Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Allen Iverson, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'neal, Chris Bosh

by darkhelmit54 on Dec 1, 2008 10:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nash wouldn't like it here

He has already expressed dislike for the current offensive scheme in Phoenix because it isn’t as uptempo as it used to be…you think he his licking his chops to play under Nate?

Can I buy you a fish sandwich?

by silkybrown on Dec 1, 2008 10:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we've been

much more uptempo than they’ve been lately (and have a lot of potential to do so). I think Nash wants more motion in the offense, not so much more running. They play stagnant half-cour tbasketball that’s extremely boring and doesn’t emphasize his strengths whatsoever (passing). We’ve run a lot more pick n roll and off ball screens this year than they have.

My Favorite Non-Blazers: Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Allen Iverson, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'neal, Chris Bosh

by darkhelmit54 on Dec 1, 2008 10:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bottom line is that the Blazers still average the fewest possessions per game.

And it’s goign to be a slow progression to move up (read: probably not until next year).

by erastus25 on Dec 2, 2008 4:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BS

we’d be scoring a lot faster with Nash here, and the suns have always been a very good scoring half-court team, it’s defense that they couldn’t do. They did tons of pick n rolls and off ball screens in the half-court. It’s not the tempo, it’s the lack of motion that’s killing him.

My Favorite Non-Blazers: Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Allen Iverson, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'neal, Chris Bosh

by darkhelmit54 on Dec 2, 2008 8:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

He’s one of the best three point shooters and midrange guys in the league and our offense seems to be able to provide ample opportunities for those types of shots.

Also, to say that he doesn’t like a certian offense and that determines who he wants to play for is not looking at the big picture. Nash would care less about possession per 48 minutes if he was winning championships. I think he cares more about winning than playing a certain style of ball.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 2, 2008 8:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nash is 34. How much do you think he has left in the tank?

Trading multiple young talents for aging all-stars does not seem like a smart strategy to me.

by upper left corner on Dec 2, 2008 5:05 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

if those

multiple young talents will have to be let go anyways for the most part then it’s irrelevent. Nash may be a rental, but at some point you’ve already got three rentals on the team (most only play 9 guys, we have 12 who deserve minutes), might as well trade up for a better rental

My Favorite Non-Blazers: Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Allen Iverson, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'neal, Chris Bosh

by darkhelmit54 on Dec 2, 2008 8:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

right on again...

at some point you have to develop your future PG (Sergio or Bayless or some yet to be drafted or traded for)… but you might as well win while you are developing that guy.

I see no reason why Nash wouldn’t be better than Blake and Sergio, even if he only played here thru the end of his contract (next year). Who will be our starter two years from now? Not Blake, I hope. Probably not Sergio. Bayless? Maybe.

But why hold onto the two guys who most certainly won’t be your PG of the future? Nash as a rental is better than Blake/Sergio as a rental.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 2, 2008 9:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rental is a good analogy.

Nash could win us a championship right now (on Paper at least).

I heart taxes.

by everett on Dec 2, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Helmit, you fiend?!

You stole my trade idea. I suggested this yesterday afternoon, except I didn’t include Bayless.

by koyote on Dec 2, 2008 9:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where did...

…Aaron Miles come from?

this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."

by bforsythe on Dec 2, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If LeBron wants us, this is a GO all the way.

That said, I don’t think LeBron wants us. Championships are great, the greatest even. But LeBron wants to have his cake and eat it too. Championships plus a major city. I think if the choice were stay in Cleveland, and possibly not get a Championship or come here and get it, he’d be here in a heartbeat. The fact you’re forgetting to mention, is that when LeBron goes to NY, Amare or Chris Bosh will have already landed there as well. In addition to whatever lottery pick the Knicks get this year and next year (Rubio/Griffin/DeRozan). Of course even if you don’t think the Knicks can make the turn around its pretty apparent that the Nets are and will. They’ll be getting cap room for that 2nd superstar when they trade Vince either this year or next. They’ll not only be able to offer the LeBron + Amare/Bosh scenario, but they already have Devin Harris (among the best young PG’s in the league) and Brook Lopez and Yi, not to mention if they’re able to get lottery pick or two over the next couple years. We may be LeBron’s best bet to win a Championship, but we’re certainly not his only chance. And we’re not Brooklyn, and we’re not New York.

by as11osu on Dec 1, 2008 10:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

he has said on the record

that if a euro team were to pay him 50 million a year he would leave the nba.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Dec 2, 2008 5:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lebron cares about one thing.... Lebron

The guy cares about his image…. why else would he even be talking about possibilities in 2010 if he cared about Cleveland. I’m sorry, but gnarles barkley is right, the guy is disrespecting his team & putting himself first. KP would never go for it IMO.

by volcompro11 on Dec 1, 2008 10:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

KP would have considered trading Oden for him

at least he mentioned it prior to the ’07 draft. I think KP would go after him.

Can I buy you a fish sandwich?

by silkybrown on Dec 1, 2008 10:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless its a 60-40 trade

in our favor…I’d lose respect for KP if he blew up the team for lebron…championships or not. When I think of culture…Lebron doesnt come to mind.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Dec 1, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

KP said he wanted to trade Oden for Lebron?

I might have missed that one, but I swear I remember him saying Oden/ the pick wasn’t for sale prior to the 07 draft.

by volcompro11 on Dec 1, 2008 11:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

from what I recall

KP said that he’d only trade Oden for someone like LeBron. That was in the weeks leading up to the draft and in response to questions about trade offers he was getting. He said something about 1-2 All-Stars offered straight up for Oden and he turned them down, with LeBron being the only guy he’d trade GO’s rights for. (Kevin Garnett was assumed to be the biggest player offered up but KP never mentioned names, like the true gentleman he is). I didn’t get the sense he wanted to trade Oden for LBJ, it was more of a “this guy’s going to be really really good, and he’s pretty much untouchable” statement.

by sfiles on Dec 2, 2008 8:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

I remember reading that too. KP specifically said “…someone like LeBron.”

this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."

by bforsythe on Dec 2, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You repeat a common misconception when you say...

“First of all, the free agent players available next summer would not help us much if at all.”

Hedo Turkoglu is an unrestricted free agent next season:

Hedo Turkoglu’s numbers = 17+ points, 5.5 rebounds, and 4 assists this season.

In comparison, LaMarcus Aldridge’s numbers = 16 points, 6.5 rebounds, and 2 assists this season.

by ajinoregon on Dec 1, 2008 11:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hedo is sick

I don’t understand why people hate on him.

I heart taxes.

by everett on Dec 2, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Considering GD's a Blazer & Chargers fan...

… I thought that was sort of neat.

I was referring to his penchant to throw out random trade ideas with no obvious attempt at reasoned aforethought.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My roomate...

…is a die-hard Orlando fan and he hates all over Hedo too. The most common reason why that is given is how he swallows it up in the playoffs a la Uncle Cliffy. Hedo did this in Sacramento, too. Great stats in the regular season though. So he’s got that going for him.

this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."

by bforsythe on Dec 2, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Most likely Not.

I agree that when Webster comes back, we’re not going to have the minutes to keep everyone we have playing at SF. Further, I’d also agree that if we do make a trade, it won’t be for the position we’ve traded from – i.e. SF, rather, it will be to upgrade the guard slot. And that will mean that one or even two of those will likely be traded as well. After all, we currently have three – which would become four, and none of those will be happy as third team PG’s.

Having said this, keep in mind that any trade KP is working on, as he made very clear, will include Raef. Then, you can package in the other pieces. And since that trade’s going to be done this year, not next, and Lebron and Cleveland are playing well right now, I don’t see any chance at all that Cleveland will trade Lebron this year. After all, they may actually go deep into the playoffs this year – and Cleveland isn’t going to toss that chance out the window to make a trade.

By mid-season, most teams know what their future holds with their current players. Some will keep tinkering, but some will start to think about reloading. For KP right now, it’s a chess game. We have reason to think that he has at times shown interest in Bibby, Kidd, and Conley. But not a word about other slots on the team. Assuming he is in fact focussed on upgrading the point, then other than Felton, Hinrich, and Nash, I haven’t heard about any other possible PG’s who might be available. Whatever KP does, he needs a team that wants cap space, and has decided to reload.

In the end, I don’t see the Blazers getting into the Lebron sweepstakes, and given the teams talent, and the fact that it will keep improving, I can’t see trying to substitute LMA for Lebron – who is not a PF – leaving us with a weakness at that position.

by Eben Calder on Dec 2, 2008 5:04 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

"made very clear"

…or made a very clear smokescreen.

Love KP. Do not trust a word he says to the media. He’s a GM first.

by Jumbo on Dec 2, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Depth

That is my counter-argument. When Martell went down, we had the luxury of replacing him with Batum and Outlaw. In the Nash scenario, we sacrifice our depth for a D-less point guard and we narrow our window on winning a championship. Count me out.

by da34shadow on Dec 2, 2008 7:01 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

LeBron / Roy

I really don’t see how these two players could coexist well on offense. after all, they both play the same style of game on that end: give them the ball, let them break down the defense for a shot or find the open teammate. Neither one excels as a spot up player, There is only 1 ball of course.

I know it’s blasphemy, but if we were going to trade for LeBron, I think the smarter move would be to move Roy instead of LMA, giving us a front line of Greg, Le, and La, move Rudy (who does do well as a spot up shooter) into the SG spot, and fill in with role players. Yes, Roy is more talented than LMA overall, but you got to look at team/fit and not just raw talent.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Dec 2, 2008 7:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I have never understood the argument for trying to get LeBron. Yes he’s the best player in the NBA now and for the next 10 years (at least) however he plays the exact same game as BRoy. Roy mentioned (last year?) that he wouldn’t play very well with a tradiitonal point guard because he needs to have the ball in his hands, why would that be any different with LeBron who also needs to have the ball?

I keep thinking back to an article that was linked a while back, that discussed the different point gaurds that would be a good fit for our team. The writer, called players like Roy/Wade/LeBron/Kobe/MJ initiators, because they need to have the ball in their hands in order to be successful. The writer then said we needed a guard who could shoot the 3, defend, and bring up the ball and proceeded to compare different players in the league in those areas. With that in mind, having a true point guard along with an initiator would be just as bad as having two initiators.

by Gelvalst on Dec 2, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that we need depth

in case of injury. It happens to every team, and it would suck to have a great team that could be crushed with one injury.

by twggyy on Dec 2, 2008 8:04 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

How About Felton?

There’s increasing smoke about the fact that Augustin will eventually replace Felton as the Hornet’s starting PG. Felton will be a restricted free agent after this season and could be dealt before the trade deadline.

Anyone interested in Felton? Would he be an upgrade?

by Eben Calder on Dec 2, 2008 1:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Felton is ok

But what is his ceiling?

Plus, he’s not paid enough, so if you’re talking about using RLEC + Sergio + Outlaw, that means we’re going to have to take other “insurance pieces” in return.

I would trade Outlaw + Sergio for Felton, but that doesn’t relieve the time crunch at the PG spot. I guess we don’t have to keep Blake after this year and that would relieve the pressure. But we’ve still got RLEC sitting around.

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 2, 2008 7:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Point guard, people!

We need to think “point guard”. Not Raymond Felton though. Nope.

this has been a message from: "The People's Alliance to give Greg Oden at least a couple of seasons."

by bforsythe on Dec 2, 2008 2:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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