Another Double Best?

by Trutherlizer on Dec 1, 2008 6:17 PM PST Comment 16 comments

I’ve been thinking about the two roles Brandon Roy plays on the Blazers: he’s their most reliable scorer and playmaker, the guy who knows what to do with the ball at the end of the game—whether it’s shooting or it’s passing, undoubtedly Portland’s best player. But he’s also the team’s best leader. He’s composed, tough, rarely rattled. He commands the respect of teammates not just because he’s a great player, but because he’s a team-first-not-me-first guy who conducts himself respectfully on and off the court. He’s both a coach’s player and a player’s player. We all know this. But did the two great Blazer teams of the past have as their best leaders their best players? And does it make any difference in the chances of a team being able to achieve and maintain greatness?

Walton was clearly the best player on the 1977-79 team, but I don’t recall him being its standout leader. He was still a little shy and self-conscious of the stutter he would go on to conquer after he left the Blazers. That team also had Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins, who might have commanded a little more respect than Bill.

Clyde was the best player of the early 1990s teams, but was also a little retiring and not a natural leader. That’s one of the reasons Porter was so important to that team. It may have been mostly Clyde’s show, but Terry often ran it.

So Bedgers, what do you think? Has Portland really ever before had a player who was doubly best? Is it an advantage? Does it really make any difference? Is it better for the leader to be the one, as is so often the case, who’s the primary ball-handler, a la Steve Nash and Brandon Roy? Or, does the case of Kevin Garnet show that it’s inconsequential?

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Rasheed was the best player, and also the team leader in the sense that other players followed his lead in behaving badly...

by Bust a Bucket on Dec 1, 2008 6:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

True, true

He was exemplary when it came to getting in trouble.

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by LaMarvelous on Dec 1, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The '95-'96 Seattle SuperSonics -- which finished runner-up in the 1996 NBA Finals -- had a separate ...

best player (i.e., Shawn Kemp), leader (i.e., Gary Payton), and highest-paid performer (i.e., Detlef Schrempf).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/1996.html

Ah, those were the good ol’ days.

by AK1984 on Dec 1, 2008 7:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I LOVED that team. :)

lol, Kemp used to be my favorite player.

by In Walks Rudy on Dec 1, 2008 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Serge Ibaka

RLEC Trades Galore!

by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 1, 2008 7:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Serge Ibaka = Olumide Oyedeji

Sam Presti has done almost nothing thus far to warrant any praise as a front office executive.

by AK1984 on Dec 1, 2008 8:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Except for trading a conditional 2nd-round pick for Kurt Thomas and 2 1st rounders

and then turning Kurt Thomas into another 1st round pick. That was pretty savvy

by tingeyga on Dec 2, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

R.I.P.

</pours out some brew for the Sonics>

Keep your head up, Seattle.

by Jumbo on Dec 1, 2008 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BRoy Wow!

That said, we still need to STOP! And wait on this until the end of this year before I/we let my/our emotions get the best of me/us.

That being said, I firmly belive BRoy could (I say again, COULD) pass Clyde someday as the #2 all time best player.

Best leader? Bill Walton was the man, the championship team will not argue this point. Please Mr. T.Lizer just ask Jack Ramsay, Luke, Bobby G, Lionel, Dave T, and on and on who was the floor leader. No disrespect but you are obviously not from this genre. Walton ruled with his play, very much like Roy is doing here in 2008, only from the post position. Seeing was believing and you would never forget what you saw from big Bill. Just imagine what you are seeing now, only now imagine it from the big man. It was simply awesome. His body just couldn’t hold up, but for that 1.5 years it did and those who witnessed it voted him as one of the 50 greatest players of all time. Think about that for a moment (his Celtic contribution was not that big of a factor in the equation of top 50).

All time greats?….Bill Walton #1 and Clyde D. #2, but be sure, BRoy is the first player I have seen since who could surpass both.

If we win a title in the next 2-3 years. And if Roy leads us to the promised land (as we suspect he will), then there will be no doubt about who is the new #1 all time Blazer leader and player both.

My hopes and dreams are as high as they have been in a long, long time, and BRoy is the reason why. I believe his best games loom in the future and will only arrive on the biggest stage. Remember Waltons stats in the 77’ finals? My friend they were off the charts. BRoy could be that kind of player. Scary thing is, this team has more talent than that team that surrounded the big red head had. Bill’s game was built closer to the hoop, so if/when Roy gets his ring it will be that much sweeter.

Finally, the original parade, like Bill will be so very hard to unseat as all time greatest.

Loved this post Truth.

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by Heymoe on Dec 1, 2008 7:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Walton was the best player on his team, but the best leader?

As a matter of fact, I do remember, though imperfectly through the fog of amassed decades, the Walton years. I don’t disagree with you that he was a phenomenal player, perhaps the best passing center ever in basketball, a terrific defender. Ramsey liked to put him at the high post from which Walton would zip pin-point passes to cutters, like Bobby Gross along the baseline. And I don’t disagree, that he was a leader. I’m less convinced that he was THE leader. I’d really like to know what other players on the team thought. As much as I admired Walton as a player, I remember him as being a little flaky at the time.

The point I meant to make about Roy was NOT that he is the best Blazer of all time, but that he’s the best player on THIS very good team; NOT that he’s the best leader ever, but the best leader on THIS team. On this team he combines bests. It will take years to know if he’s the double best Blazer ever. Has there ever been such a clear double best on another Blazer team?

by Trutherlizer on Dec 1, 2008 9:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Remember Walton

motioning to his teammates to move, move, move on offense? Yes, he was the leader on the floor. Well, maybe not THE leader, because Luke and Hollins were also leaders in different ways, but you certainly wouldn’t put those guys ahead of Bill in that category.

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by jscot on Dec 2, 2008 6:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

walton's style of play dictated the entire team's style of play

and his ncaa championships at ucla gave him tremendous authority — plus i think he liked having a much older coach in jack ramsay, somewhat like john wooden, who was a bit of an intellectual in basketball terms…

but walton’s play — his unselfishness and passing and rebounding, his lack of concern for statistics…. that was leadership, whether or not he liked to talk much to the press. he didnt much care for the press, as they’d been very critical of him his first two years, during which he was mostly hurt (he played about half a season each) and looked like a dork with really long hippie hair and beard, even had some passing acquaintance with someone (jack scott) peripherally involved in the patty hearst kidnapping and time on the run.

hollins was a great defender, but once he had a knee surgery he was never the same, it slowed him down just enough, and maurice lucas started bouncing from this bad team to that, always tough and could score 19-20 pts per game but the magic he had with walton was never regained — he was never a real factor in pushing a team to be all that good.

brandon roy is much more articulate (and i suspect much smarter) than drexler ever was, and hes comfortable with himself and seems to have no aspiration to ever put out bad rap cds like shaq or artest — he just wants to succeed in his line of work. and he defines success as wins rather than points-per-game.

we’re very lucky. lamarcus and greg are highly intelligent as well. it’s a rare combination. the closest comparison i can make is to the walt frazier/earl the pearl monroe/bill bradly/dave debusschere/willis reed and jerry lucas knicks of the early 70s, who won two championships over the wilt chamberlin/jerry west lakers. any of those knicks might score 20 or more — they didnt care. they passed the ball.

walt frazier was only great for about five years before injuries slowed him down and he stopped playing — but he was the closest to roy in style of play and leadership. he just did whatever it took. game 7 in the 1973 championship he scored 38 points and got 16 assists. and this was a guy who was one of the best defensive guards of all time. it was scary.

brandon roy reminds me — strongly — of how he could just take over a game.

ignacio

by ignacio on Dec 2, 2008 12:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

"No doubt about it"

… brandon roy is much more articulate … than drexler ever was

“No doubt about it” – Clyde

The funniest interview I’ve ever heard in sports.

"But we need a center", Inman said. "So play him at center!" Knight yelled back. - Bobby Knight on Michael Jordan prior to the Blazers' 1984 draft pick of Sam Bowie.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 2, 2008 1:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

You aren’t the first to compare Brandon to Clyde, and that Knicks team is a good comparison to this team. A great, great team, and this team could become what they were.

by jscot on Dec 2, 2008 6:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah it is a very apt comparison

speaking as someone who was a little kid Knick fan during those years,,and you are right, any of them could beat you .. wondered what they mighta done with a 3 point line…usta set Bradley in one corner, DeBush in the other, Lucas could score from the top of the key, Earl coulda been on the Globe Trotters, and Frazier could elevate his game seemingly at will

Henry Bibby was on those teams, phil Jackson….lotsa BBIQ for sure (Henry WAS coaching in Philly last yr…think he had some prob w/Mo Cheeks during the off season and quit outright)

They (Clyde F & Roy) have the same body style, the same calmness, .. As long as Roy doesn’t get crazy, but a Rolls and start adopting the wardrobe…

by LetsBlaze on Dec 2, 2008 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Henry Bibby was too young

He was still at UCLA in the early 70s. Walton called Bibby the UCLA team leader during his years

Bibby did play for the ‘77 Sixers that lost to Walton’s Blazers

My take on Bill as a leader…he and Luke were codependent. Without Luke, Walton wouldn’t have won a ring with Portland (unless…Moses Malone wasn’t given away, then maybe…) Lucas wasn’t called “the Enforcer” for nothing, and he led the team in (balanced) scoring. In a nutshell: Walton was not the alpha male on the ’77-78 Blazers like Roy is on the current team

by two4larue on Dec 2, 2008 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs