The Problem with RLEC...
by prodigalfan on Dec 1, 2008 9:30 AM PST
64 comments
I was thinking about all of the potential wonders that RLEC could bring to this young Blazer team. I was dreaming of someone awesome in return. I mean, it would have to be someone awesome right? You have to get some pretty major talent back for such a gigantic expiring contract. In today's NBA, scrubs don't make that kind of cabbage anymore. Teams are smarter now.
And then it hit me...Do we want what we would have to get back? And, after watching this team, I'm starting to think...not. Hear me out. Sure we COULD get a pretty good player, but should we. As has been noted, this 12-6 record is astonishing, but you've seen this...it's no fluke. This team is playing like they care, like they're well coached, like they already belong.
Now, add a 10+ Million dollar contract to this mix. Oh, you know it will be a good player. But...so? I mean, this isn't fantasy basketball (See Trader Bob). This is an actual working, breathing up and coming dynasty in the making...as is. 12-6. Let that sink in. 12-6. After the league put a shedule in place to announce to us that "you're not ready", we stuck right back in theirs and screamed..."YES WE ARE!"
The return gift for RLEC would be someone worthy of time on the court. At whose expense? They would be someone worthy of time with the ball. Again, at whose expense? They would be someone of leadership quality. But, this team has young leaders that you want to encourage.
The things that we would get back would be nice pieces to be sure, but...this team is already going to have to make room for another young piece in Martell. How would this team find "happy" minutes for someone worthy of a 10+ million dollar contract without cutting in line ahead of the players that we already want to get more minutes for.
I'm not one of the guys that says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". If there is tinkering to do, lets do it. But we're not talking about tinkering. We're talking about a major move involving a major player. It would have to be. It would have a major effect on this young team. Moving Trout, RLEC, or even Diogu, is simple enough on paper, but these players are young. The consistency and chemistry that they must be developing is one of the reasons for this team's success. There are only a handful, a small itsy-bitsy baby-sized handful of players I'd want to try to integrate on this team. And honestly, not one of them I am thinking of are commanding the kind of contract that RLEC has.
Perhaps, we have to chalk this up to...KP being so good at his job that even HE can't take advantage of all the pieces he's created or made for the Blazers.
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Keep RLEC...
…. and let it expire. Then hire a HOF big-man coach for GO…
by pantelakis on Dec 1, 2008 9:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
RLEC Options
Charlotte-
We get DJ Augustin & Gerald Wallace
Dallas-
We get Josh Howard, Brandon Bass & Gerald Green they get RLEC & Outlaw(Won’t work on Trade machine until dec 15th).
Golden State
We get Jamal Crawford & Anthony Randolph for RLEC.
LA Clippers
We get Marcus Camby(Great Post Depth) & DeAndre Jordan(Train him to EVENTUALLY replace the Vanilla Gorilla) for RLEC
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 1, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why
would any of those teams want to do those trades?
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Value Of RLEC
you are overlooking it.
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 1, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
None of those
actually makes their team better.
Having RLEC doesn’t mean Dallas can pick up a free agent.
What are they going to do with RLEC to improve their team? An expiring contract only is of value if A) you are in luxury tax and can’t afford it or B) it gives you cap flexibility that you can use to improve your team.
If you can convince me that Mark Cuban needs money, then I will believe he’ll just do a straight salary dump. But it probably won’t include young talents.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And why would we want any of those players?
Augustine might be ok but KP passed on him already. Howard and Green are not culture here. Bass is a nice backup player but probably no time available for him.
I would rather look at the FA market next summer. KP already has his target picked out (so he says). Sit back – enjoy the ride.
when you’ve been in a dry land even a little dew looks inviting —Dave
"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." - Tom Landry
by lee3022 on Dec 1, 2008 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
augustine was snagged before we could get him
not sure KP passed up on him…
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
by lanepete on Dec 1, 2008 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
another batch of RLEC Trades
We get Mike Conley & Darrell Arthur 4 RLEC *
RLEC 4 Michael Redd
Vince Carter 4 RLEC & Outlaw (One of my favorites)*
Marbury, Nate Robinson, Wilson Chandler & Anthony Roberson 4 RLEC, Outlaw & Bayless(Bring Brandon’s PG back(who has proven himself in the NBA, in return for the unproven Bayless, won’t work till dec 15). *
Kenny Thomas & John Salmons 4 RLEC & Outlaw
Tony Parker & Ime Udoka 4 RLEC & NICOLAS BATUM*
Thats all 4 today
by TheGreatDane17 on Dec 1, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would do the Tony Parker deal in a heartbeat
too bad the Spurs wouldn’t
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Dec 1, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA....
so Charlotte would give us their stud SF who they just signed an extension with and their early first round rookie PG for RLEC?
so Dallas would give up one of the best SF in the game along with one of the only physical beasts on their team and young promising, talented player for RLEC and Outlaw?
so Golden State would give us their replacement for Baron Davis and their stud first round pick for RLEC?
so Clippers would give us 2 of their centers, one of which is a rebounding machine for RLEC?
you are severely overestimating KPs ability to pull the wool over other GMs eyes
by BRye on Dec 1, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Since RL is injured
There is an incentive to keeping him since the insurance is paying for most of his contract.
Honor Terry Porter
by Philthyanimal on Dec 1, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good post
You make some really good points.
I’ve think the use of RLEC at the deadline will come down to whether or not we think making a deal for a veteran star at the deadline can put us in contention for this year. If so, it might be worth doing. If not, then we ride it out and use the capspace to try and make a major trade in the summer (the FA list doesn’t have any good fits IMHO).
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Dec 1, 2008 9:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
That's starting to seem more likely to me, too
I don’t buy that any of our guys will have lost serious value by the summer, even if they do get squeezed out. The one thing we’d lose by waiting till then would be the use of Channing/Ike as parts of a trade, although I doubt those guys are worth that much anyways due to their contract uncertainty. Even if Trout or Batum get squeezed out of PT by Webster, teams will still be able to look at their starts to this season and use that as a good measuring stick (obviously Trout’s been up and down, but shooting such a high % from three is a good stat that jumps out for opposing GMs/fans).
We saw how Presti was able to turn Rashard Lewis (who was always going to sign with Orlando) into multiple 1st rounders, which shows just how much you can do with a little cap space in the offseason as teams start to settle into full rebuilding mode and deals can be had. Besides that with one of Blake/Bayless/Sergio and one of the SF trio along with cap space, that’s more than enough to land a guy in a top pay bracket if a team doesn’t think they’ll be able to re-sign him or if they want to cut some salary.
Something like Blake for Kirilenko (I know he’s overpaid) or Butler, or even (stretching the imagination further) Blake/Bayless and LA for Amare if Amare decides he wants out of Phoenix for some reason.
by Royster on Dec 1, 2008 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
whenever my friends and I talk about trading travis (this has been going on for a while now, I’m not one of those “ooh good game, keep travis…ooh bad game, trade travis” guys) we’re finding it increasingly difficult to say what we would want in return. future draft picks? another versatile forward? with the emergence of so many of our young players and just the solid performance as of late, I’m not so sure that we really need to do that much “tinkering.” I’m def down with hiring the new big man coach though!
If you're thinking about posting your totally awesome trade idea here. DON'T.
by chrischa on Dec 1, 2008 9:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
prodigalfan - nice post -
Like the others here, I’m uncertain as to what veteran out there we would actually want…. as mentioned above, Amare would be nice, but still uncertain about the whole chemistry thing with him… plus, does he have much of an outside game to complement oden’s inside game?
i think the best decision with all of this is to wait till the end of the playoffs. See how far this team gets in the playoffs, and then determine the “glaring” weaknesses… out of this context, make a decision..
also, anyone know how to post pictures that are not from the internet (and thus have no url) (like from a desktop)???
Thanks!!!
by hotstuffdb22 on Dec 1, 2008 10:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
OT: Load them up to a free image hosting service, such as imageshack.us (I often use that, and you need no registration I think), a flickr account, or something like that.
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For comments that is. For fanposts it’s not necessary, SBN stores these.
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can upload to your SBN account??
by hotstuffdb22 on Dec 1, 2008 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not yours specifically, but they have storage space for pictures used in articles and fanposts (and profile icons) on their servers
The address then looks something like this after you upload a picture via the fanpost interface from your PC:
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/44677/martell-kicks_medium.jpg
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hey- thanks for your help
to be more specific, when i try to upload a photo in a fanpost, it asks for a URL… can items from my desktop be imported directly using their own url??
by hotstuffdb22 on Dec 1, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I think you are right. You have to go the way around via something like Imageshack
They provide a direct link after importing it there, at the very bottom/advanced. Using that link and copying it in the fanpost interface for images, it then gets imported into the assets on sbnation. I thought you could circumvent that step.
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...just taking the RLEC money and splitting
it out amongst the young rising stars…opening a roster spot in case something pops up..
although Shav’s non-guarantee=instant roster spot…
I don’t see Ike’s role clearly .. like he was just a throw in the other trade…they must have something in mind for Shav, cause otherwise, why was he signed at all..especially if they thought they had something in Ike..
Barring injury, this group could stand pat for 5 years and just be increasingly competitive..
by LetsBlaze on Dec 1, 2008 10:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Proposal
Portland sends RLEC and IDEC to NY.
New York sends Eddy Curry, Jared Jeffries, 2009 first round pick, 2011 first round pick, and their next 33 second round picks to Portland.
Portland negotiates a buyout of ECEC, he goes away, we keep winning, and winning, and winning with the guys we have.
Everybody is happy. We turn RLEC into both a shot at Ricky Rubio and a future first round pick for a cheap role player or another long term project — and KP’s long term projects seem to have this tendency to work out pretty well. New York gets their cap space. KP adds to his collection of second rounders to play with.
Curry tries to find someone who wants his bloated ego without the bloated contract. Jeffries sits around injured, lifting weights and eating a lot, bulking up so that he can come back and be the banger off the bench that so many people here are pining for. He’ll never play, but that’s ok, he’ll be there to make our banger-happy friends glad that we have one of them.
While Jeffries is out injured, Shav is activated, so LetsBlaze and TiH actually get to see him play in garbage time. More joy to spread around. Eventually, KP will draft someone good, and Jeffries will be bought out.
There, I just made a trade proposal. I feel almost guilty about it.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 10:15 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
Little know fact: We already have NY’s 2009 second round pick from the Eddy Curry trade via Chicago in giving the Bulls Omer Asik, together with their 2010 second round pick and Denvers 2009 second round pick. Good times.
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
By Jared Jeffries...
…do you mean Jerome James?
Cuz Jeffries is a bean pole, who while hurt, isn’t really know for banging or lifting weights and eating.
You fingered the wrong banger from the Knicks, but since you are Jscot and I (Mortimer) am not, from now on we all must refer to the player formerly known as Jared Jeffries as Jerome James, and vice versa. To not do so would bring about dire consequences. DIREST OF THE DIRE.
Oh wait… are you hoping Jeffries will change from his perimeter defender rep to a banging rep? So he just sits out and changes his entire game to theoritically (since he’ll never play) be a banger? Ok… I can go with that. Plus, it means no one has to change their name which is always bureaucratically messy.
And if we lose a rebounding battle by 3, it’s nice to have a player on the bench people can say “IF ONLY NATE WASN’T MENTALLY HANDICAPPED HE WOULD SEE THAT THE SCRAPPY BANGING OF PLAYER X IS WHAT WE NEED TO WIN THE ’BOUNDING BATTLE”. It’s a good release to be able to say that.
I, (Mortimer)
by Mortimer on Dec 1, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you figured it out
For all the money we’ll be paying the guy, if we want him to eat and lift weights, and put on 60 pounds, who is he to argue?
Look, the whole point here was to free salary for NY, thus persuading them to give us draft picks. Those two guys are the two contracts they can’t be free from by the summer of 2010 without someone helping them. We are nice people, and have fond memories of trading with Isiah, so we will help them. They will give us draft picks out of sheer gratitude. Peace and love reign.
This can’t be done until after we play them, because we do not want peace and love to reign in Madison Square Garden. We want to destroy them, first.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, isn't that exactly what NY needs to do for 2010: Get rid of Jeffries and Curry
Both will respectively won’t use their options to continue to draw their monstrous salaries in 2010 when the Knicks need all space they can muster to get LeBron/Amare/Wade/Nash/whatever. Is Jscot secretly a Knicks fan, working on the evil plan to stop Portland from winning 15 titles with Greg?
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's win/win
They dump their bad salaries. We get Ricky Rubio. We help to build an Eastern powerhouse who will win 65+ games every year before we sweep them in the Finals, thus making our dominance all the sweeter.
Ali was great because he had Frazier to defeat. To be truly historically great, you have to have a dreaded rival that you beat all the time. Why not the Knicks?
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The NYK 1st is owed to UT
for the upcoming season. It is top 15 protected (I think) this year and next year…this part sucks…it is unprotected, meaning that IF the knicks flop next year and finish with a bad record ut could have a shot at a lotto pick and their own pick.
Sucks I know.
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 1, 2008 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah....
OK, that forces me to rejigger this trade to make it work. Observe the workings of a brilliant mind in progress.
Hmm. They can’t trade us this year’s pick, because they might not own it. They can’t trade us next year’s pick, because they might not own that.
I have just concluded this trade will not work. Yet.
Therefore, I will instruct KP to WAIT. Almost certainly, NY will be in the lottery. (I can hear the applause ringing around the world for my astute observation). If there is any doubt, we will destroy them so badly in our next game that their confidence is crushed.
Thus, come the end of the season, they will still have their pick. THEN, we make the trade. We no longer have RLEC and IDEC, of course. We will have to give up something. SHAVLIK TO THE FORE! We will trade Shavlik for their bad salaries, the guy that they pick (at our behest) in the first round (Rubio, because I will bend the lottery to my will), and a future first rounder.
I have spoken.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www2.realgm.com/src_future_picks.php
"Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. They are working the rest of the league like a speed bag." - Bill Simmons 6/26/08
by SpyderRyder on Dec 1, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh...there's nothing like some garbage time for joy spreading
thanks for the consideration..:-)…
no complaining from the trade post police because of in-bedded apology…
by LetsBlaze on Dec 1, 2008 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been thinking the same thing.
KP is dynamite in the draft. He hasn’t done much outside of it, which is not to imply that he can’t, just that maybe he should stick to what he’s good at.
Teams never(almost) give away good point guards. He might have a better shot trading/clawing his way up to grab Rubio or someone of that caliber. Would the deal be for unprotected picks? I’m not sure Walsh would go for it, but if nothing else is panning out by the trade deadline KP might start looking towards next years draft. Rubio plays beyond his years anyway, so it’s not exactly like we would be losing much in the way of maturity.
by Nick Van Excellent on Dec 1, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are some gigantic flaws with your trade proposal.
For all practical purposes, Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries’ contracts last through the 2010-2011 season.
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/08-09salaries.htm
At this moment, the New York Knicks owe a future first-round draft pick to the Utah Jazz (top-22 protected in 2009 & unprotected in 2010).
http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php
Apropos of the Knicks, though, here’s my previously proposed plan to revamp that blackened franchise.
"The New York Knicks must clear more salary off of its books to be able to sign three maximum-level players during the summer of 2010. As it stands at this moment in time, the Knicks could sign two maximum-level players during the summer of 2010; that’s ’cause Eddy Curry (2010-2011: $11,276,863) and Jared Jeffries (2010-2011: $6,883,800) would be deadweight financially.
[…] Without a shadow of a doubt, the formation of a seemingly unstoppable trio in Chris Bosh, LeBron James, and Dwyane Wade should be Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni’s objective.
As it is, though the Knicks should tank this season and make a run at selecting Ricky Rubio with the first pick in the 2009 NBA Draft. While that’s a definite long shot — especially with Oklahoma City and Minnesota in its way — it’d be a manner in which to further kindle the rebuilding process."
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/26/673706/today-s-poll#10300053
"TRADE PROPOSAL #1
FROM CHICAGO & TO NEW YORK
SF/SG Larry Hughes ($12,827,676)
FROM NEW YORK & TO CHICAGO
PF Malik Rose ($7,647,500)
SF Jared Jeffries ($6,049,400)"
"For the Knicks, Hughes contract ends after the 2009-2010 season; that’d cut $6,883,800 from the Knicks’ books come the summer of 2010.
For the Bulls, Malik Rose has a sizeable expiring contract; thus, it’d allow John Paxson to re-sign Ben Gordon this off-season — or, perhaps, make a run at potential free-agent Carlos Boozer to improve its scoring in the low-post — without exceeding the luxury tax for the 2009-2010 season.
TRADE PROPOSAL #2
FROM DALLAS & TO NEW YORK
SF/SG Jerry Stackhouse ($7,000,000)
PF/SF Shawne Williams ($1,572,960)
FROM NEW YORK & TO DALLAS
C Eddy Curry ($9,723,983)"
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4837984
"For the Knicks, the over-the-hill, washed-up has-been Jerry Stackhouse and the out-‘n’-out bust Shawne Williams have contracts that expire after the 2009-2010 season — while Stackhouse’s salary for that season just partially guaranteed for $2,000,000 — so that’ll clear future salary cap space.
For the Mavericks, Eddy Curry would form a balanced platoon at center with Erick Dampier. Curry is 100% offense and 0% defense, while Dampier is 0% offense and 100% defense. It’s definitely not a tandem that I’d approve of for my favorite team, but the Mavericks are in desperation mode.
On a side note, Williams can’t be traded in conjuction with another player ’til 12/10/2008.
All right, I’ll let y’all chew on those realistic trade proposals for a bit."
http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/25/670280/buffet-of-not-so-goodness#10279938
Well, that’s that.
by AK1984 on Dec 1, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Flaws?
For all practical purposes, Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries’ contracts last through the 2010-2011 season.
Right. That’s the benefit for NY. We have no cap space after next summer anyway, so that’s irrelevant to us.
Benefit to NY — they get the cap freedom you yourself said they need.
Benefit to us — we leverage our cap space into two first round picks.
Other flaw — the Utah deal. You are right, I wasn’t aware of that, and SpyderRyder pointed it out before you. See my revision in response to him.
Look, right now we’re playing like a 60+ win team. I’m not saying we’ll win 60, but we’re playing like that. If that continues, how do you fit a near max player into that mid-season without destroying chemistry and causing other problems? How do you get that player without giving up some of the talent that is winning those games? Do you mess with a 60 win team mid-season? It better be a pretty lop-sided trade to do that.
The alternative is to turn the cap space into assets for the future by burning a few of PA’s bucks paying off some ugly contracts.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that's too bad
your proposal actually made a lot of sense!! Can NYK ‘reverse-conditionally’ sell us the other pick? I’d settle for Wilson Chandler & ‘the other 1st round pick’ & curry for RLEC & Diogu.
by nima on Dec 1, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We had their 2008 pick, too
I forget how KP used it. I think it was part of the Batum acquisition. We gave up the rights to Demetrius Nichols to get it — and then they cut Nichols because they already had 15 or 16 guaranteed contracts. Another brilliant management move by Isiah.
I wonder if Paul Allen could buy an Eastern Conference team and hire Isiah so he could start making trades with us again.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 10:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
trade target
another thing. I think if we do trade RLEC, or use the space to take a big contract in the summer, it’s going to be for a guy who’s contract runs at least through 10/11.
Think about it – anyone wanting to trade for a big expiring contract is going to want the capspace for 2010. If the guy they are giving back to us expires in ‘10 or sooner, then why would the other team do the deal? at the very least, it’s going to have to be pretty balanced talent-wise or involve a lot of potential guys and/or picks from us.
But, if we want to do a deal where we get back good talent without giving up much – it’s going to be for a contract that runs past summer 2010. Another reason while waiting for this summer might be the smart move, as there could be a LOT more GMs looking for 2010 capspace at that point, after seeing their playoff hopes go down the drown this spring.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Dec 1, 2008 11:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think it will come down to ...
whether a team that was supposed to be good is really struggling near the deadline and panics. If we can sucker someone into a cap relief trade, it’s possible. Though I’m guessing they’ll let it expire and then look to trade in the offseason or even next season, as others here have suggested. For instance, what if Toronto struggles and then comes really slowly out of the gate next year? Will they worry about Bosh walking? If so they might want to trade him and get some value, though it wouldn’t happen until next year and so it makes sense to wait for the moment.
I still maintain that no other team in the league can package expiring contracts with the young talent that we can. It’ll be interesting to see if Pritchard pulls the trigger on something.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
by bfan on Dec 1, 2008 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
One more tangent: We are not the only team with a big expiring contract. E.g. the Cavs are likely to trade Wally World
ESPN’s Marc Stein on top 20 expiring contracts feat. Raef (updated since the KP statement. What a difference a day makes)
9. Raef LaFrentz (Portland Trail Blazers)
Expiring Salary: $12,722,500
Soon to be traded? UNLIKELY → Update: LIKELY
Stein Version 1: If the Blazers could get an undeniable impact player or a top-notch veteran point guard who doesn’t carry a long-term contract, such as Kidd or Bibby, I suspect they’d part with LaFrentz’s last-year deal, which is largely covered by insurance payments. In the likely event that they can’t? The Blazers have other pieces to keep offering in trades — such as Sergio Rodriguez, Channing Frye and Ike Diogu, although teams prefer to ask for Travis Outlaw — and good reason to hang onto LaFrentz and let him come off the payroll at season’s end, with several talented kids on the roster soon to be looking for contract extensions.
Stein Version 2: The consensus as of Thanksgiving was that the Blazers would move LaFrentz only if they could get back an undeniable impact player or a top-notch veteran point guard who doesn’t carry a long-term contract, such as Kidd or Bibby. Blazers front-office boss Kevin Pritchard then revealed over the weekend that he actually plans to be more aggressive than that with LaFrentz’s contract, which will be largely covered by insurance payments once LaFrentz misses the first 41 games of the season with an ongoing shoulder problem. Pritchard referred to LaFrentz’s deal as “the card I want to play,” but another option is moving the likes of Sergio Rodriguez, Channing Frye and Ike Diogu (although teams prefer to ask for Travis Outlaw). Hanging onto the LaFrentz card and letting him come off the payroll at season’s end might help the Blazers when they have to start paying the talented kids on the roster soon to be looking for contract extensions.
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 11:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Bibby is interesting because the Hawks are notorious penny pinchers. KP previously said teams looking to cut costs or struggling financially would be attracted to RLEC for the 10 million dollars of insurance coverage — that’s no small number in this economy. the teams that fit that bill best would seem to be (in no particular order)…
1) hawks 2) grizzlies 3) clippers 4) bobcats 5) wizards 6) timberwolves
am i missing anyone? from those rosters, bibby jumps out.
by Ben. on Dec 1, 2008 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But why would we give up any talent
for Bibby when we can get him as a free agent (if we want him) in the summer? We won’t give up much for him. And the Hawks probably cease to contend if they lose him, while I’m actually not convinced he is that much of an upgrade for us anymore.
Bibby is indeed interesting, but I’m not entirely persuaded….
I suppose if we trade a throw-away piece and RLEC for him this season, it probably strengthens us this year, and then we can decide if he was a rent-a-player this summer, or if we want to re-sign him. If we don’t, we still have cap space to play with.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess the argument would go “because the nba finals take place before the summer” … im not sure how much talent we’d have to give up to get him… the hawks aren’t exactly the best run franchise.
i think you see us go after bibby or someone like him (kidd, nash, whoever) if our going deep in the playoffs chances are really crystallizing. in the case of bibby, if his salary comes off the books anyway, no harm no foul if it doesnt pan out.
do i think bibby is the right guy? not sure. i have questions culture-wise.
by Ben. on Dec 1, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Culture-wise
and defense-wise.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Dec 1, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Possible reason for Portland being interested in Bibby.
1) He too has an expiring contract. Portland retains the flexibility it currently has with Raef’s deal.
2) According to Stein, Bibby has been able to play well with a SG (Joe Johnson) who spends a lot of the time handling the ball. Remind you of anybody?
3) A young Hawks team made the playoffs once he came over and is doing well again this season.
If Portland continues to play well, Pritchard and McMillan may want to acquire Bibby for the stretch run, with an eye for the playoffs. Bibby certainly brings playoff experience. Whether he’s resigned after this season is another issue.
Portland can offer Raef’s contract, which because of the insurance coverage, saves Atlanta money, plus a young player or two. It might be enough to get them to bite.
Personally, I’m not exactly thrilled by the idea. I like the team we have now. But since both Nate and Pritchard have a slight edge on me when it comes to evaluating the needs of the team, I’ll go with whatever they think is best.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 1, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Bibby
He hasn’t played well since leaving Sacramento. He was crappy the last year he played for Sac, too. – Elgin
All the kids who played the blues would learn my licks with a bottleneck slide. - Richard Palmer-James
by 22baylor on Dec 1, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I wanted him either.
Just putting out a possible rational for why Portland might be interested.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 1, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont want bibby either
i want j-smoove.
by nima on Dec 1, 2008 7:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was getting ready to pop off about how Bibby is 2/3 down the other side of the hill, but I see he's averaging 16 ppg. in 33 minutes this year, with a good 3PT percentage, so I'll just shut up...
…………………… But why Bibby when we already have Blake? How does that help anything? I mean, if Blake gets hurt, maybe, but if he’s not — what’s the point, so to speak?
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
by timbo on Dec 1, 2008 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You are pretty much preaching to the choir.
Well, not exactly the choir, as I can’t carry a tune if my life depended on it.
I am a big Blake fan and am solidily in the camp who believe that he suits us just fine. (Truth be told, I’m to the far right of that group and of the opinion that folks who argue he will never be a starting PG on a Blazer title winner might as well attach a big flashing sign to themselves that reads “I don’t know squat about basketball.”)
Bibby can still get his own shot and is capable of lighting it up. He also has significant playoff experience. That he’s shown he can mesh with a Roy like SG adds a degree of attractiveness (or maybe reassurance) to the Blazer brain trust that he might be a good acquisition. That he is also an expiring contract almost pushes it into a “How can we lose.” proposition.
So while I would be content to stick with what we have, I can see why Pritchard might be exploring a deal for Bibby.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Dec 2, 2008 6:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bucks maybe?
I thought they wanted to contend when they signed Jefferson, then they turned around and sent Mo Williams out whom they had signed themselves to his big contract. I could see the Cavs knocking again there and asking for Redd in exchange for Wally, Pavlovic and picks.
- Chicago seems eager to get into the 2010 sweepstakes and might be willing to give up Hinrich in a deal if they knew they could retain Gordon at a better price, which they screwed up two years in a row. It’s risky since if he bolts they would really be left in the cold. Alternative evil side plan: Converting RLEC into LHEC = Larry Hughes 2010 expiring contract
- Wolves: The guys over on Canis Hoopus think Miller would be perfect for us, and Jorga was trying to keep them updated about the value of Travis and Rudy for our team.
- I think the Clippers are done trading for this season, and I don’t see us trying to do something strange with them
- Grizzlies have really been talking about a Conley-Travis swap as per the Memphis Commercial Appeal beat writer (so their Jason Quick), asking for Travis and Blake when KP only offered Travis and then Travis and Sergio.
- Wizards have a too high pay roll imho, targets could be anyone from their big three or potentially a young guy like Blatche in a smaller deal. Their owner seems angry about the performance of the team even knowing they are missing two starters.
- Hawks could be a possibility, but Bibby and Williams play really good right now, they will only be better when Smith returns, and Williams might not be a big enough upgrade over Travis.
- Bobcats of course with Wallace, but they keep asking for a center. Maybe at the deadline they will crumple.
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mhm, hypothetically that's not a bad use for RLEC: Converting it into a deal that expires a year later
It would keep the fans in nervous limbo, but that’s not KP’s big concern. And in February 2009 everybody and his brother would come knocking to get under the cap for 2010 far enough. Or we could become players for a free agent ourself with the remaining cap space. Not enough for one of the superstars since we have to extend LMA and Roy, but still a good piece. And there are more of those in 2010 than 2009.
Would work e.g. with Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace,…
by Norsktroll on Dec 1, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting again.
2010 ec > a 2009 ec
but rlec is no normal ec. if we can find another player willing to take one for the front office and get surgery during training camp so insurance kicks in again thereby increasing the trade value of the ec, then i might be down.
the other option would be to rent a player — find someone with a big deal that expires in 2010 that really adds value to our lineup. hughes and wallace no, but that might be a fun list to pull together, especially if you throw in CFEC, IKEC and/or sergio/travis.
by Ben. on Dec 1, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i like how subconsciously i just created IKEC by merging IKE and EC, rather than following previous form and writing IDEC. that makes me laugh.
by Ben. on Dec 1, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not crazy about miller for us at all.
grizzlies seem to be having more and more issues by the day
jamison?
by Ben. on Dec 1, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
grizzlies look like they will soon implode
which is very sad, because they look like they imploded last year too.
I love Jamison’s game, and the Whiz are certainly ready to deal. They’d want Outlaw and another player or two wouldn’t they? – Elgin
All the kids who played the blues would learn my licks with a bottleneck slide. - Richard Palmer-James
by 22baylor on Dec 1, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
miller is one of my least favorite players in the league
i’ve seen him quite a few times, and he always underwhelms. and i swear hes one of the hardest players to look at ive ever seen.
ignacio
by ignacio on Dec 2, 2008 12:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rodney Stuckey
Say, RLEC, plus Batum and Roy.
OK just kidding.
But RLEC + Sergio and a 1st rounder? I have no idea if that’s feasible. As long as Detroit wants to bid on LeBron, there is a 0% chance of Stuckey leaving, but to me, he is the perfect kind of point guard for our team. He can play team-first ball. He’s from the Northwest. He can penetrate. He has a legitimate all-around game. He’s the type of guy that can pull us through a leaderless stretch (if, say, Roy were missing) in a way that Oden or Aldridge could not. I love that guy.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
by manzell on Dec 1, 2008 12:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like Stuckey too
I’m not completely convinced on his ball-handling yet. And I think they value him very highly, much higher than RLEC + Sergio + 1st round pick. – Elgin
All the kids who played the blues would learn my licks with a bottleneck slide. - Richard Palmer-James
by 22baylor on Dec 1, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No deal!
Very good points all around but the better-than-expected performance so far just pushes the upside of this squad up that much more.
You look around the association and yeah, there might be some pieces we could add but our kids have a couple years of development and potential that we just can’t project yet.
And I think everybody smells the home grown goodness of this group. The chemistry they’re developing while they learn to win is priceless and it just isn’t worth it to risk that dynamic yet. We got some pieces and a teacher, they got a .500 season, picked up some more pieces and now we just gotta let the ingredients simmer.
by bkoregon on Dec 1, 2008 1:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
besides, no matter what Sophia says,
they really seem to like each other, including Batum and Outlaw. They seem to want to support each other rather than fight each other for minutes. Webster’s rhetoric on the eve of his return has been outstanding. Let’s keep them together like this for a while until something happens.
See, what I think is that the something that might happen is an injury or two. And we have the depth right now to weather that kind of storm. – Elgin.
All the kids who played the blues would learn my licks with a bottleneck slide. - Richard Palmer-James
by 22baylor on Dec 1, 2008 3:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think you just hit on one of the best points of all -
Injury protection.
Injuries happen in the NBA. We’re no better nor worse at it than anyone else. It’s not a curse. Other teams have suffered as much as we have, or more. But if we move guys in order to free up playing time, who plays when (not if) someone goes down. With the players we have, one through twelve, we can handle an injury to any player. Granted, if it were Brandon Roy, we’d be struggling mightily, but anyone else we can weather without missing much of a beat.
Poor grammar is poor communication.
Poor communication causes misunderstanding.
Misunderstanding causes fighting.
Fighting causes war.
War causes death.
Therefore, your poor grammar may just kill us all.
(One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season)
by T Darkstar on Dec 1, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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