Depth
by Philski on Nov 9, 2008 10:39 PM PST
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PrintThe Blazers won 41 games last year without Greg, and they're at .500 so far this year with both Greg (other than 13 minutes) and Martell nursing injuries. The Blazers are not just one of the youngest teams in the NBA, but they're one of the deepest. The NBA season is a long grind, and having the depth to be able to overcome injuries is obviously very important. However, that's only one reason why depth is so important.
KP and Nate both talked during the Summer about how it was great that there was going to be some much needed competition for playing time this year. Having depth forces players to play to the best of their ability. They have to earn their playing time.
Why are so many people so anxious for the Blazers to trade players when they're not starting ? It's KP's job to stock the Blazers roster with players who can play. If there's someone who's good enough to play, but isn't getting minutes simply because someone else is playing better, then KP has done his job.
Why is Sergio getting limited minutes ? Steve is better at doing the things that Nate needs from the starting PG (defense, running the offense, taking care of the ball & hitting open shots). Why is Jerryd getting essentially no minutes ? Sergio is better at running the offense than Jerryd right now.
When Martell comes back, does that mean that Nicolas might go from the Starting unit, to seeing only spot minutes ? Probably. Nicolas has been doing a great job, and has actually been much better at hitting the open shot than anyone could have hoped, but Martell will likely be back in the Starting lineup once he's able to play.
What if the Blazers decide that Nicolas needs to play, and that Travis is better as a PF than a SF ? That might result in Channing getting little to no minutes. In all scenarios, a player who can play (and play well) is likely to get little action due to depth.
What's wrong with that ?
If a player isn't playing, then it's up to them to improve enough to force their way into the rotation. Despite the fact that people seem to like conspiracy theories, Nate is like every coach in the NBA. The players who are playing the best will play, and it won't be a surprise to anyone. At the start of the pre-Season when Steve pulled his hamstring, people were surprised to find out that Sergio was number 2 on the depth chart at PG. However, none of the players seemed surprised. Sergio was playing better than Jerryd, and everyone knew it. Jerryd didn't like it, but it's up to him to learn to run the team well enough in order to be able to take minutes away from Sergio.
Depth is a huge asset for the Blazers right now. The Blazers shouldn't trade anyone just because they're not playing. If the Blazers can make a trade to improve themselves, then that's something to consider. However, is anyone naive enough to think that KP is going to make a trade to "solve" a logjam at a particular position ? Depth isn't a problem, it's a luxury. Reducing depth would make the Blazers weaker, and more susceptible to injuries. KP is way too smart to even consider some of the ridiculous knee-jerk trades that have been suggested after only six games, with two key players still sitting on the sidelines in street clothes.
If the Blazers do make a trade, it's very likely that their depth will stay the same. Suppose that the Blazers trade RLEC and one of their young players. They're likely to get back a key rotation player. The bottom line is that Blazer fans should get used to seeing "good" players who are not getting much playing time. Having players on the bench, who belong on the bench is a very bad thing. Steven Hill lost out in his bid to get a roster spot with the Blazers because the coaching staff felt that Shavlik was a player who might be able to come in and play if needed. Steven was seen as more of a project. Steven would have been a bench player who belonged on the bench, at least at this point in his career.
Depth is something that KP has worked very hard to achieve for the Blazers, and hopefully that depth will continue to be an asset for years to some. That's not to say that there won't be some changes to the roster, but I trust that KP will continue to bring in players who are going to provide competition for both roster spots and playing time.
Phil
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The problem with too much depth
Is that good players will generally be paid well even if they aren’t playing. This means that having a bunch of pretty good players sitting on the bench and not getting playing time will hinder your ability to get very good players who would be getting lots of playing time. Additionally, good players could become unhappy if they aren’t getting playing time and it could become a chemistry issue.
well...
The good news is that we have both very good players and good player up and down the roster. This is the plight of any top NBA team…. possessing players that would start for any other mediocre team in the league.
As Blazer fans, we’re used to a team of players that would barely hold on as the 15th man on a good team.
I don’t know about you… but this “problem” is something I can get used.
The only problem is...
That we are not yet a top NBA team. The Trail Blazers greatness is still only an optimistic speculation.
Put it this way: if we were 6-0 or even 5-1, would Sergio be demanding a trade right now?
Our MONEY is not a problem... Neither is our YOUTH
Good players deserve a solid paycheck. Good players with Good Character who like our city and embrace their roles, whatever they might be, are worth a solid paycheck. If Portland can find the right players to fill out this roster after our star trio of Roy, Aldridge and Oden, then we should sign ’em and keep ’em. Martell is good and he just signed an extension that is solid and definitely not a bank-breaker. Solid role-players like Pryzbilla, Frye and Blake are worth paying them what they are worth, and paying these guys IS NOT going to prohibit Portland from having money or cap to sign another player if we need it. KP is going to be able to communicate to these guys what Portland has available money-wise and what the league pays guys in similar roles… it is not going to be a financial issue to keep our depth.
Youth is a problem for many on this site, on the radio and in the newspapers. Youth is a problem because of so many EXPECTATIONS being NOW NOW NOW. Go ahead people, jump off the band-wagon. This roster is supposed to be built to win MULTIPLE championships, not ONE. The TrailGangster era was a quest for ONE title, that era was about NOW NOW NOW because everyone that was being acquired were at the “Win-Now” point of their careers. Not this Blazers group….
Currently Portland has the 2nd youngest team in the league…. and, don’t forget, we are already becoming one of the most feared! Definitely on the rise. This is a .500-team on the rise is the Western Conference with enough GAME to take ANY team out. We are not winning it all this year. Martell and Oden are out… If you are a wanna-be Blazer fan who is writting those two players off already… then get the hell of our bandwagon. Martell and Oden are huge pieces to this puzzle and for Portland to be 500 now without them is a testament to what we are now and what we will be in the future. Have some patience through the injuries and the trials-and-errors of Nate seeing how these pieces ultimately need to work together. I will preach patience with this team for TWO MORE YEARS… even though after this year, we really won’t need it!!! At full strength, with solid depth, 3 stars, a good coach, a flexible cap, a great GM, and A LITTLE MORE EXPERIENCE. This team is Dy-No-Mite! Keep in mind Two things…
1.) Creme rises to the top: Having depth now will help Nate and KP decide who will long-term stay and who will be trade bait. Until then, guys like Bayless who does not get playing time… well he is just getting hungry for the court so when he does get his chance he will never want to let go of it. Other guys like Sergio, who prove they have an ego issue about playing time when he is young and developing, probably proving right now that he is not the “creme” and needs to be moved.
2.) The Grass isn’t always Greener: Packaging up a 23 year-old Travis Outlaw, young pg Sergio, and a few something else’s isn’t necessarily going to bring Portland back a better-answer than what Nate already has. I am by no means saying that our roster is SET, but I do believe strongly that Nate and KP are being WISE about this roster. I have heard KP say on the radio that he “doesn’t want to make a move prematurely”, meaning, how this team meshes together behind the scenes, who ACTUALLY develops as expected or better, and who really plays the game that fits with Nate’s plans as well as compliments the games of Roy, Aldridge and Oden. That process is not done, therefore jumping the gun SIMPLY to define our 8-man rotation is NUTZ!!!! The grass is not always greener. SF is “big” issue, “PG” is a big issue… NOT, dudes… we have three unbelievably sick SF prospects who are all continuously developing as we blog. At PG, we have a top draft pick who hasn’t even breached the line-up yet because our vet is a gamer, our back-up (sergio) has lots of tools, and both Roy and Rudy can run with the ball, too. We are in a most enviable position. Portland’s grass is green and in time KP will mow it down to look like a fine manicured lawn. until then, the shrubs will be left to see who takes over the yard.
by Portland Dynasty on Nov 10, 2008 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Hey, I love the post.
I am frustrated w/ all the impatience being displayed. Maybe because I’m older, watched Walton and Co. win the big one, been through all the incarnations since, I have a different perspective than others. I am very excited about this new group! I also have lots of patience to watch them grow and transform into a great team. Most of us on this site seemed to agree a while back that it would take a couple of seasons. Now after 6 games we have people making all kinds of pronouncements about Nate, Steve, Sergio, Travis, Bayless. I prefer to look at things almost like a parent, with patience and support.
This team has the potential to not only be one of the deepest teams in the league, but also one of the happiest teams. Maybe we should model the behavior we expect in order to continue the tradition of this great site.
by crakarjack on Nov 10, 2008 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Patience has been preached . . .
by some of us for years. Last year I was one of the
few who predicted 40-42 wins, even after GO’s knee.
Like you, I’ve been a Blazermaniac since 75, and we
know from experience, youth can grow together into
something special. We watched while Walton, Dave T,
Gross, Hollins, etc grew, then adding a final piece in the
Enforcer Luke. Same with the Drexler, Porter, Kersey,
Duck days. You go out and add a Lunch pail PF in
Buck Williams and a great 2nd round pick in Uncle Cliffy
and it all clicks.
My premise is PATIENCE. Give Martell & GO time to
get back and acclimate after our first 30 games of Hell.
We’ll be fine and peaking for the playoffs. Even with
the injuries, I’m sticking with my summer stated prediction.
55-27, – 4-6 seed in the west & look out !
COINCAST SUCKS ! GO BLAZERS !!!!
It's GO time !
Sounds like we're
on the same page. I agree w/ you, even the “Comcast Sucks” thing.
Well
I agree that we should wait and see how the team gels before making any move. But for you,- a nobody here- like everybody else just a fan to tell other fans to get the hell out of here is simply rude. Hey you big preacher of patience, first learn how to use patience towards your fellow fans, then you will be able to tell other people what to do, and they might actually listen to you, and that is if they choose to, otherwise you will look like a hypocrite.
You are doing the opposite of what the Blazers organization is doing. They want bandwagon fans and all of their advertisement is towards them. They even went as far as claiming that Seattle is their territory.
Did someone spill their coffee on you this morning?
Dynasty and Crakarjack (and Phil) made reasonable observations. One that I agree with, btw. They did not call for anybody to get off this site, in no way were rude, nor a hypocrite.
Why are you seeing slights where none exist?
hakkaa päälle !
I agree
with some stuff dynasty said but if some one has a different opinion…. " then get the hell of the bandwagon". He is not in authority to say that so its rude. Hypocrisy is when you say be patient but not being patient with fans that just came to the Blazers bandwagon and tired of Oden hype. I dont disagree with what he said only how he acted towards others. Thats all.
are you guys going to make out
or just keep yelling at each other?
It takes two to fight, and two to make love—and you guys seem to be well on your way to both.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 10, 2008 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
Hey RipCity... I ain't a nobody... Who R U?
My posting on BE goes back, way pre-New Site and I even have a retired moniker “Scotty the Mastermind”, so SUCK IT.
And YES, I get tired of too many people listening to others who say that Oden was a wasted pick and Martell will never be. KP has said it, Nate has said it, this team has a timeline and they do not want to make any move prematurely. Why should fans, then, get their panties in a bunch (apparently like Rip City does) about a few early injuries and not going undefeated? Well, it is not realistic, nor is it in the best interest of the team or the management. If you want to be Negative Nellie, then change your handle from RipCity to Negative Nellie. I am fine with that… I will be patient with the team, but I won’t be patient with a garbage post like the one you just dropped. I don’t care if you or others took offense to me saying that if you aren’t supporting Martell and Oden while they are injured then get the hell of our bandwagon, tough cookies RipCity and the like.
Now, don’t get me wrong about the Bandwagon… life is better in Blazersland when the wagon is full to the rim. It is not going to be hard for Portland and the surrounding areas to embrace this team that is ladden with good dudes who are also studs on the court. However, if you are a Naysayer like he can not type… fatty, then I will be talking trash. period. I am not telling other people what to do, just stating how I feel about issues at hand… except for you Rip City… you go pound sand.
by Portland Dynasty on Nov 11, 2008 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh yeah... well I invented blogging... so there...
geez… this is getting pathetic.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 11, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
You really invented blogging?..... aWeSoMe!!!
We are in the midst of greatness….
PS: How did you know my nickname was pathetic?
by Portland Dynasty on Nov 11, 2008 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
Hey buddy you need help?
You sound like my neighbor thats on crack. Liberalism is a mental disorder. Idiots like you don’t mean nothing to me anyways.
You want to talk crap?
man it so easy to get you pissed. Your still nobody if you act like a bum. So i dont have nothing to talk to you, but Im not going anywhere cuz you said so. Have a good day.
Thats good you retired your " The Mastermind"
cuz it does not look like it fits you. If I want to complain about being tired of the Oden hype, you have no right to tell me to get the hell out of here. Man your full of it, its spilling out of you. Go ahead talk more, I want to see all of it
Site rules, gentlemen
Behave yourselves.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Go get 'em Scot.....
……………………………. or else everybody needs to start taunting them both…
(1) Nobody checks ticket stubs on the bandwagon.
(2) He who posts first does not necessarily post best.
(3) Liberalism is not a mental disorder. Nor is conservatism.
(4) Tommy Bahamas REALLY DID invent putting a pen behind the ear.
t
"I’m glad Sergio played well in pre-season, but he should be getting killed for whining. He ain’t that important to the country of Spain, let alone the Trail Blazers." --Mortimer Pritchard
................ and (5) Everybody is somebody, so why can't we all come together on a hilltop and sing together in harmony about the joys of Coca-Cola?
"I’m glad Sergio played well in pre-season, but he should be getting killed for whining. He ain’t that important to the country of Spain, let alone the Trail Blazers." --Mortimer Pritchard
Timboism IS a mental disorder
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
I think I just broke one of the site rules.....
……….but the stupid software doesn’t let me flag myself.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Salary Cap
If you are over the salary cap that severely hinders your ability to get more talent through trades or free agency.
Some people think
we’ve got enough talent to keep us going a few years.
If you have too much depth, you get over the salary cap and can’t get more depth….
I’m not too worried.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
The Blazers have depth
KP hasn’t drilled a hole under the RG all the way to China, but he has drilled holes to France, Spain, Seattle (just below the surface I guess), Texas, Ohio and other places between and not between.
Depth helps for sure. Once we get Martweezie and Greg back, we are in prime position to trade or stand pat and have a good deep team.
Agreed
You know KP has a dozen trade scenarios in the league he’s recalculating all the time. Unless an absolute killer deal comes along, though, they’re gonna wait until they have more information. 20 games in to the season at least. Maybe 20 games with GO even
I think KP was disappointed that he didn’t get a crack at Billups…
We either make a trade at the dead line
Or we dont make one at all,leting the RLEC expire at the end of the season is a viable option and I just dont see the PG we want being available mid season.
by southern oregon on Nov 10, 2008 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
You never know
who might become available.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
One thing is certain....
Judging by Martell getting his extension done, and those others that need to get done BEFORE we have access to what our cap space should be, I foresee KP and Nate making decisions on those extensions just so that money plus the penalty isn’t up in the air in case these guys want to make a move….
Maybe no trade before the deadline, but definitely some contract extentions.
by Portland Dynasty on Nov 11, 2008 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
The only extension that would be happening
is Channing (Ike won’t happen), and they agreed it should wait until after the season.
So either Frye gets traded, or he’ll be extended on the first date possibly (July 1st).
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
to return billups
we would have had to have given up probably 2 of our big 3. I don’t think KP lost any sleep about it.
by 50backflips on Nov 10, 2008 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
This post is too deep for me
Marc Gasol´s formula.
Asked about his way to succeed, Marc Gasol said: "If the coach asks me for banging my own head 200 times, I do it. Even more, I do it 500 times."
--translated by Amlmart
by prezofdeath on Nov 9, 2008 11:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Way too deep.
If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley
great post
exactly what i have been preaching
Woof
by Charles Barkley McLovin on Nov 9, 2008 11:55 PM PST reply actions
The one thing that Kevin Pritchard should've adressed prior to the start of this season was ...
the Blazers’ lack of a true third-string pivotman, which was an important issue due to Greg Oden’s history of injuries — despite the fact that none of them are seemingly chronic in nature — thus, at this juncture, he gets a big, fat F for having not yet solved that glaring problem.
by AK1984 on Nov 10, 2008 12:30 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
It was addressed... the choice was Steven Hill or Channing as your third stringer
They decided that Channing would be more effective overall (offense and defense) than Hill.
Therefore, they kept the BPA (Shavlik) and Channing is the backup center when Oden or Joel are injured.
Frankly, I’m just happy to have both Oden and Joel—most teams don’t have two true “pivotmen”.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 10, 2008 1:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yet the coaching staff told Channing to focus exclusively on becoming a power forward over the off-season
He worked on his outside shot and things a mobile power forward needs. Not on getting stronger or a better defender (he was never a really good one). This team is deep on power forwards with LMA, Channing, Ike, Shavlik, but could use one more true center, maybe an undersized one but one who is a strong banger.
They also told Greg and Joel to focus exclusively on not getting hurt
and well, that didn’t happen as planned.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 10, 2008 3:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree with the Norwegian Troll on this one...
……………………… The team may be technically “deep” at the 4, but in practical terms it’s got one potential star that needs his low game fixed (LMA), one SF trapped in the body of a PF that can do little else but shoot 15-18 foot jumpers (Frye), one slow guy that hasn’t showed me anything (Ike), and one guy that’s riding pine and who will probably wind up cut or as trade filler (Shav).
There is still no reliable Boozer-type/Jefferson-type PF to be inserted and used situationally against the low post maulers.
I would have liked to see Hill, not Shav, on the roster to serve as emergency 5, but done’s done — KP won that battle.
"I’m glad Sergio played well in pre-season, but he should be getting killed for whining. He ain’t that important to the country of Spain, let alone the Trail Blazers." --Mortimer Pritchard
(And make that 18 to 23 foot jumpers for Frye!)
"I’m glad Sergio played well in pre-season, but he should be getting killed for whining. He ain’t that important to the country of Spain, let alone the Trail Blazers." --Mortimer Pritchard
yeah
True enough. But I don’t think Hill would have provided you anything this year. If KP thought he was actually good enough to contribute something more than our current roster, he would have kept him.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 10, 2008 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Boozer and Jefferson
are bad defensive players. LMA is better defensively than either. They bang (on the offensive end and rebounding) down low because they play with big men that don’t. We have Joel and Greg. Different need met perfectly by LMA and Channing.
Yeah, Al Jefferson and Carlos Boozer are ...
two of the most atrocious interior defenders in the NBA today.
Except for Eddy Curry, there’s no frontline players getting heavy playing time who are worse defensively than either Jefferson or Boozer; those two make Dirk Nowitzki look like Joel Przybilla.
Zach Randolph is surely a bad defender, but ...
Eddy Curry, Al Jefferson, and Carlos Boozer are way worse than him.
Here’s my top-five ranking of the worst interior defenders in the NBA today:
1. Eddy Curry
2. Al Jefferson
3. Carlos Boozer
4. Amare Stoudemire
5. Nazr Mohammed
For whatever it’s worth to y’all, Randolph doesn’t quite make that list of mine.
Saying they are way worse than Randolph at defense
is like saying Mao was way worse than Stalin when it comes to killing and imprisoning his own people.
I mean, you can make the case if you really want to, but who really cares?
Bad is bad is bad is bad.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
I like Frye at C/PF
I actually think Channing is a combo player.
He’s got the outside shot of a Brad Miller/Okur,
but dosen’t usually put it on the floor, unless he
gets them off the ground. It is a very effective tool,
as if you are an excellent set shooter for a 7 footer,
the defender has to come out of the key and get
a hand up on the shot. Channing is still young and
can develop his handle thru hard work. I doubt he
will ever be a STRONG defender, but he is long, moves
pretty well and showed he could play well with minutes
at Center. Last year, subbing 4 Joel he had some excellent
games.
I think Channing knows when GO gets back it will cut some
of his minutes, but the season is long and injuries are bound
to continue. He’s intelligent and mature enough to understand
team dynamics and be ready when his #’s called. Keep up the
good work, Buffet !
COINCAST SUCKS !!! GO BLAZERMANIA !!!!
It's GO time !
Agree.
Plus, there are ways to get guys minutes that don’t necessarily show up in the per game average.
For example, most coaches tend to use a “matchup” approach, trying to find ones that are favorable and then exploiting them. Depending on the opponent, Nate could utilize different guys, giving Channing 20+ minutes one game, while Travis and Batum get 15 or less, then perhaps the next game Channing only sees 15 or so. I think I’d prefer sitting most of one game, if it meant I’d get lots of court time the next.
If we really are as deep as we think, McMillan should be able to exploit that in back to back games and long road trips. If he leans on the starters heavy during the front end of a back to back, he can give more time to the second unit in the next. Frye in particular has shown that when given starter’s minutes he can produce starter’s numbers. I would really love seeing Portland be able to field two teams capable of winning games.
hakkaa päälle !
Actually
I think the choice was to have Aldridge as third string center.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Yeah, same difference, depending on the situation
If we’re going Hack-a-Shaq, it’s Channing. If LMA is not in foul trouble, he guards the Center.
But the idea is that Channing can back up Joel right now, Travis can play the 4, and etc. However, in practice, I’m not sure that Joel and LMA have bench on the bench at the same time this season.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 10, 2008 3:01 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, 3rd String Center was this Managements biggest blunder so far...
At this early point in the season… We need more depth at center with Oden out. Also, regardless of the foot injury, KP and Nate should have figured Oden would have foul trouble, fatigue issues and maybe a few dings and dents throughout the season. Steven Hill would have been the better choice in my book.
Shavlik Randolph is a 5th string power forward:
1. Aldridge 2. Frye 3. Outlaw 4. Diogu 5. Randolph
The depth need at center was and is still much greater in my book.
Do you think that Nate and KP wanted Randolph because he may have a tad more trade-throw-in-value?
by Portland Dynasty on Nov 11, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
That is a good question
I think it had more to do with the uncertainty of Channing coming of his (now forgotton) ankle surgery, and the success of LMA as the 5 last year…and Randolph was a steal at 4th year minimum…AND they got him to sign a non-guar contract
and you folks haven’t watched him play that much, but …he’s really pretty good, esp from that BBIQ standpoint .. . .I know they were only preseason stats but 58% fg, 10pts 6 rbs, 2 blocks 2 steals 1.5 assists, 75 ft%… … if those were a regular Blazer player’s #’s you would be falling over yourselves…
and he’s a hard worker who looks to make those around him better — he works his ass off, he never complains, he’s fully bought in to the team — watch the way he is treated by the people around him when they come to the bench or at games end..
trade value is a rough issue without him getting any PT – - Philly did him a diservice by not giving him any tiime after his injury had healed — so he was an unknown entity coming into camp…his 43 min in preseason vs Utah was a sign that durability is not an issue…There are teams that had expressed some interest, maybe more after the preseason showings, maybe more after he made the roster…
Overall prob just too much talent to pass up for the $
Steven Hill
would have been our fifth string center. Behind Greg and Joel, but Nate would almost always play Aldridge and Frye before Hill as well.
And Randolph easily has the potential to surpass Ike. Besides which, there is a decent chance of a trade of Travis, Channing, or even both before the trade deadline, at which point we might be very glad to have the extra depth. The likelihood of one of our centers being traded before the deadline is virtually nil.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
I hope you meant
in reference to Curry making Boozer and Jefferson look like Pryz on D. That was a colorful metaphor.
I was referring to his criticism of Pritchard for not...
… addressing Portland’s glaring weakness at 3rd string center.
That one is a candidate for BE Hall of Fame comments.
hakkaa päälle !
then you should give it a "rec"
a vote without a vote is not a vote.
at least that’s what I heard.
Glaring Problem?
I understand that it would be nice to have a better 3rd string center, but let’s be honest here. No team has three true centers worth being on an nba roster any more, and in the situation of an injury crunch, almost every single one of those teams would slide a backup PF over to the backup/starting center spot like we did with Channing last year and LA did with Gasol. After last year, a healthy Joel/Channing/Lamarcus combo was shown to be capable of covering the center spot with TO covering the extra minutes at the 4, even if Channing and Lamarcus don’t really play like centers. In the case of foul trouble for those guys, Raef also showed he could chip in a couple minutes if needed, although I’m sure we’d put Ike in there instead now.
Really, is that any worse than Utah who have only 3 serviceable bigs before injuries, where Fesenko and/or Koufos have to play fair amount if Okur or Boozer go down? Or the Lakers who would have to play Mihm or Mbenga if Bynum goes down again now that Turiaf is out? Looking through almost every decent team’s roster in the league, there’s maybe one or two that are in a better situation than we are in terms of depth at the center spot with league experience.
Anyone who wanted Hill was making an emotional decision. Summer league means nothing. Bayless was SL MVP and is collecting DNP-CD’s and has looked okay at best in his time on the court so far. Hill looked marginal at best in the summer, so it’s a huge stretch of imagination to think that translates to being a serviceable backup, at least moreso than Raef, Channing or Ike would be.
Yeah, not sure where those guys got the idea that
having ONLY two starter-quaility NBA centers on one team was GM malpractice.
Look at the Magic tonight. If Howard goes down with an injury, should their GM be forced to push pennies across the court with his nose during practice?
Blazer fans seems to have a penchant for criticism of management that is proportional to their passion for Rudy.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 10, 2008 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
regarding Hill
People wanted to annoint him an NBA-ready player after picking up a couple blocks in Summer League and having an NBA-ready beard. Those are probably the same folks that thought Bayless would be playing 25+ minutes right now.
The reality that people blindly shield from their minds is that Hill was not a viable option to play productive minutes in the NBA at this stage. Even if he was on the roster, how much time would he actually get right now?
The Blazers staff had ample opportunity to evaluate Hill against Greg and Joel this summer at the PF, and they decided he wasn’t ready. Posters here were able to watch none of those practices, yet they are accussing KP of malpractice for not having a “third viable pivotman” available, when most teams would be lucky to have two. Some commonsense around here would be much appreciated.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 10, 2008 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
Steven Hill, who I twice compared to Lukasz Obrzut, certainly wasn't the answer as ...
Portland’s potential third-string center. I, therefore, was totally baffled that Hill had been the only true pivotman brought in during training camp and the pre-season to fight for that 15th roster spot.
My most practical suggestion was to make a play for Radoslav Nesterovic of the Indiana Pacers; however, his recent ankle sprain has put that idea on the backburner. Nesterovic, who’s got an expiring contract that’s worth slightly less than Raef LaFrentz’s salary for this season, could’ve been a solid acquisition at the right price.
If Andrew Bynum once again goes down with a serious injury, then ...
Pau Gasol will be shifted over to full-time duty at center. Unlike LaMarcus Aldridge and Channing Frye, Gasol is an adequate fill-in at the pivot.
At any rate, though, you’re totally correct that many teams in the NBA are lacking in depth at the center position. That, however, doesn’t make it any less egregious that Kevin Pritchard assembled a roster including five power forwards (i.e., Aldridge, Frye, Ike Diogu, Shavlik Randolph, & Raef LaFrentz) and just two centers (i.e., Greg Oden & Joel Przybilla), with one of those aforementioned centers having a history of injury issues.
The league these days is a league full of...
PFs masquerading as centers. In what alternate universe are Rasheed Wallace and Antonio McDyess anything but pure PFs and they get all of the center minutes for Detroit. Amare Stoudemire played most of last year as a center and he managed all right. LA started 14 games there as a rookie and logged significant minutes at the center spot alongside TO as a PF last year. Maybe that doesn’t make him as good there as Gasol, but I think that playing him there would be preferable to giving up an asset to the pacers to grab Nesterovic just so we don’t have to play LaMarcus there.
Boston plays a fair number minutes with no one over 6’9 on the floor and Perkins is their only legit center on the roster (unless O’Bryant is somehow considered legit). The Heat are starting Haslem at center, who was slightly undersized at PF to begin with. The Jazz often only play with Boozer and Millsap on the floor.
This isn’t the ‘90s anymore. Teams don’t need to carry around semi-stiffs like Will Perdue or Chris Dudley to guard Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, or Mourning. Almost all of the HOF centers are out of the league, and almost none of the current bigs have a refined enough post game to exploit smaller players on the block (except Duncan, Howard just gets by on moving people out of the way). Back then, it would be ridiculous to think of Frye guarding any of those centers, but now there just aren’t teams that can punish you for playing PFs at the center spot, and even if we had Nesterovic, I’d rather play give LA or Frye the backup center minutes and let them do their thing than roll with Rasho just because he’s got an inch and 30 pounds or so on those guys.
Rasheed Wallace is capable of strongly defending opposing pivotmen in the paint, while ...
LaMarcus Aldridge and Channing Frye are frequently manhandled the likes of Dwight Howard.
Against the New Orleans Hornets on this current road trip, Tyson Chandler will flat-out destroy LaMarcus Aldridge and/or Channing Frye — which’ll be the case if Joel Przybilla is benched due to foul trouble — down on the low block. I hope it doesn’t come to that, though.
Amare Stoudemire, by the way, was exposed on defense when he played at the pivot. Although Shaquille O’Neal certainly isn’t a defensive stalwart at this point in his career, he’s at least an upgrade at center in Phoenix over the porous Stoudemire.
The same goes for Al Jefferson and Carlos Boozer, who are complete jokes on defense.
The Miami Heat shouldn’t be stuck playing Udonis Haslem at center; however, he’s obviously a last-ditch choice there — as Mark Blount, Joel Anthony, and Jamaal Magloire certainly aren’t serviceable options — and, in all likelihood, will be benched upon Alonzo Mourning’s return from retirement after he’s 100% healthy come mid-season.
Anyhow, I’ll sum this up by admitting that I’m a bit biased due to being a traditionalist. Whether that’s a positive or a negative, however, is something that everyone can decide for themselves.
I'm not saying it's ideal
and definitely all the guys we mentioned are awful on defense, but it’s not like we’re asking LaMarcus and Channing to cover the entire center position. There’s still Pryz, a starting-quality NBA center around who can check those guys.
As far as getting demolished by the likes of Dwight Howard, my point was that “the likes of Dwight Howard” is a very exclusive club these days as opposed to the mid-90’s. Pretty much consisting of solely him. As much as Chandler will “manhandle” LA/Frye in the time that one of them see at C, Chandler has almost no offensive game. For him, manhandling is like a 15 and 15 at best, and regardless of who’s guarding him, almost all of those points will be the direct result of the defensive schemes the team plays to contain CP and not how good the individual defender is. It’s not like Rasho or Blount or any other bad backup pure C does better on those guys like Howard.
In our upcoming 10 games, really the only centers we have to worry about are Chandler and Jefferson, and Chandler isn’t exactly a threat to dominate a game. Post games are starting to go the way of Stockton shorts and Converses, regardless of whether we’d want it to or not. That’s what makes a guy like Oden so potentially valuable. He’s athletic enough to guard guys like Boozer or whoever on the wing and be a shot blocking presence, but can punish the smaller teams down low.
Exactly right
With Oden out, we got demolished by Howard and still got a win. With Oden out, we still got a win against Yao Ming’s Houston.
If we are still winning games against the teams with the best centers, even with Oden out, then I’m not sure we can say KP was totally remiss in shoring up our center position.
When your starting center is out injured, if you are still managing to win games, then you aren’t in bad shape.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
with Oden out, center definitely feels like a bigger deal right now...
The biggest issue is that Oden IS out and our only real depth issue is because of this. It is fine to compare us to other teams, and maybe Steven Hill isn’t ready for 15 minutes per game, like Shavlik could probably give, but a big body giving a few defensive minutes and sacrificing some key fouls would be a good card for Nate to have to play.
I don’t disagree with you that almost ALL NBA teams only have one or two true centers, but there is a need for multiple looks for any team. The moment most teams bigs get in foul trouble, the biggest issue is that those teams become a mismatch waiting to happen in a bad way. They get posted up or slashed on big time.
Maybe Hill wasn’t the best player, but I can forsee him being more useful than a 5th string 6’9" soft power forward.
by Portland Dynasty on Nov 11, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
Even after the Oden injury, we have 4 guys on our team who have put in a relatively significant portion of time at center in the NBA (Pryz, LMA, Channing, Raef). Whether those guys are better at PF is immaterial. Every single one of them is light years better than Hill at center, not to mention the fact that I’m sure Ike and Randolph would be decent at the center spot compared to Hill.
Like I said, we play in a league where the best defensive team often plays minutes with no one taller than 6’8" on the floor. That’s just what happens in the league now, whether you want to admit it or not. Hill is no better at defense than any of those guys, and arguing that he provides “fouls” is absurd since anybody can do that. At least Shavlik has contributed on an NBA at one point in time.
I thought you were being faceaous up above.
That’s why I thought it was such a great comment.
Were you being serious when you said Portland needs a 3rd string center?
For me, that falls into the category of “I have just about everything I could ask for, but hey, why not ask for more.”
LaFrentz is more of a center than PF and would easily be the best 3rd string 5 in the league, were he healthy. Unfortunately, I think Raef’s knees are toast and the shoulder injury is not going to do him any favors. Still, if he can get fairly healthy, he’s adequate for the job.
Moving past Raef, Randolph could probably fill in as a backup 5. He’s big enough to hold his own with at least half of the centers in the league and has more of an offensive game than some of the guys who start at center.
If Greg ends up playing less than 50% of a season’s games, Pryzbilla is more than adequate enough to pick up the slack. If we don’t have Oden at all, it is unlikely there is a 3rd string center on an NBA roster that would make a difference, were he a Blazer.
hakkaa päälle !
What I noticed
Is yes, the Blazers have a deep roster. I also think that a lot of our perception of their talent is based on being Blazer fans. Meaning, sometimes we see “our” players as being a little better than they may actually be in comparison to other players around the league.
For example, Batum had a couple decent games and people think he is the second coming of Teshaun Prince. Outlaw hit a buzzer beater to win a game, and we called him “clutch” and “Mr. 4th Quarter”. I think everyone in the NBA is pretty darn good at basketball and that is why they are NBA players.
I could probably go down the list of our bench and can find a few guys on other team’s benches that I would say are better. We may have an above average bench, but it may just be they just play good together.
(Fernandez is the exception. He is a star)
"I'd hate to be you if I were me." - Eddie (Barfly)
by NBAstard on Nov 10, 2008 7:34 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well put.
The flip-side of this is that the teams that are perceived to be oh-so-much better to us, like Houston, San Antonio, Phoenix, New Oreleans — are actually only incrementally better, if that. If the Blazers play together and fix one or two glaring deficiencies, all bets are off.
I’m not speaking about the TRUE elite teams such as the Lakers — but there are only a couple of those.
"I’m glad Sergio played well in pre-season, but he should be getting killed for whining. He ain’t that important to the country of Spain, let alone the Trail Blazers." --Mortimer Pritchard
I agree with you for the most part
but just saying that depth is good as it breeds competition which makes everyone better does not account for the fact that these players all have a ceiling. If we feel that a guy has reached his ceiling then we might take a look at our depth situation and trade accordingly. For instance, I think Frye and Outlaw, and maybe Sergio, are decent to good players that may have their ceilings in site and at least Frye and Outlaw, when he plays PF, are at a deep spot. I would be fine with dumping Frye, Sergio, + picks,rights, and cash to land a better pg as that would affect our depth at a deep spot and could increase the intensity of competition at the pg spot, which may be a weak spot for us.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
A deep bench is a gift and a curse...
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 10, 2008 12:41 PM PST reply actions
Sergio is right
You wrote “Depth is something that KP has worked very hard to achieve for the Blazers….” and I would add “depth is something Nate can destroy by not trusting what players can bring to the game”.
The question is not if Sergio deserves PT but NATE DOESN’T TRUST SERGIO. This is so obvious by analysing his minutes during these 6 games. Sergio is asking trade because he has lost his faith in Nate and Nate has lost his faith in Sergio so there is just one way to go but KP doesn’t want. It is clear Sergio feels he can be a NBA player but not in the same team where Nate is the coach.
I remember to follow up the Seattle Supersonics late in the eighties. Chambers, McDaniel, Ellis, Pierce. they were wonderful to watch and McMillan (no really wonderful). He was the PG which was the antithesis of what Sergio is, so in Nate’s mind Sergio is not what a PG should be.
So far Blake has not showed anything bigger than Sergio. Blake is dishing 3,7 assists per game while Sergio is 3,3, he steals 0,3 same than Sergio, he gets 1,7 rebounds while Sergio is 1,2. What is amazing is that Blakes plays 3 times more than Sergio. Blake only has better stats in FG% and 3PT% (0,42 and 0,32 versus 0,28 and 0,22 of Sergio). I am sure Sergio would improve the FT by playing more time and confidence.
Finally, Portland goes to nowhere as long as Blake is the starting PG.
maybe you are right but Philski wrote about depth and my point was depth has to be managed wisely...if not
ambitious players (like sergio) can start complaining.
I started writting my impressions of the issue.
.......................... it always comes back to Sergio...
I think that there might be some sort of Iron Law of Blazer Messageboards in which any topic fired into the air, no matter the subject or the angle taken, always comes around to somebody wailing about Sergio’s PT. It seems akin to the gravitational pull of the earth…
"I’m glad Sergio played well in pre-season, but he should be getting killed for whining. He ain’t that important to the country of Spain, let alone the Trail Blazers." --Mortimer Pritchard
Gravitational pull of the earth
You’re doing it yourself, talking about Sergio’s flat shot.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Wrong thread, possibly...
But 28% from the field and 22% from three just isn’t good enough to play serious minutes.
Giving [Batum] the freedom to go for steals is going to be like giving a redneck six boxes of ammo and a quarter mile of empty Bud cans. - Dave
I agree
I’ve criticized his defense a lot but he’s picked it up quite a bit. Perhaps sub-par is still a fair description, but the trend is definitely upward.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
But his shot looks terrible
He needs to sort that out.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Starting the season his shot showed improvement but last two games he draw back.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
I couldn't watch the Miami game
Better results, did the shot look better?
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Probably Nate will make Sergio a better player than Sergio might ever be with a coach who gives him a free pass.
He will learn defense, he´ll avoid turnovers and he will get mentally strong.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
I think the problem is
that Nate doesn’t let Sergio do his thing, so Sergio totally changes his game following every step coach wants, even stops doing what makes him so special in order to gain Nate’s trust, but nothing changes… That’s good reason to lose faith on your boss, and in some working environments in some countries it’s against the law :P
Agreed with anlmart1,
and I don’t think this “problem” you speak of really even exists. The only thing really holding Sergio back from taking more of Blake’s minutes is that he can’t hit his open looks from the field. I would love more than anyone for this to change.
Patience from Sergio and the fans and it will all work out. (Unless he never improves his shooting, in which case we will be following his career in a European league somewhere soon.)
lickety-brindle
by Billy Ray Bates on Nov 11, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
oops, typo on a name, bad form
sorry amlmart1
lickety-brindle
by Billy Ray Bates on Nov 11, 2008 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
Nobody writes my nickname correctly. I thinks it is a standard here to write it wrong so lets do it again.
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
Amlmart1 is my favorite place to buy beer
What I buy at Anlmart1 is NSFBE.
by tominhawaii on Nov 12, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
I think the problem is that Steve Blake and Brandon Roy don't let Sergio do his thing
I totally think Sergio has potential, but Nate can’t give up minutes to Roy/Blake at PG and hand them to Sergio.
It’s not Nate’s fault, it’s Blake and Roy.
If Blake gets hurt, then Sergio will see more minutes (not all of Blake’s minutes but some… and that assumes he holds off Bayless)
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 11, 2008 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
The bench outscored Orlando 40-12 tonight.
That is what it takes to stop the griping. It is up to the bench to determine their quality of life – and play. This bench just needs some time.
by Rick C in Tigard on Nov 10, 2008 7:11 PM PST reply actions
I cant believe the amount of negative posts,Roy is a ball hog ect
after such an impressive win ,get your minds right
by southern oregon on Nov 10, 2008 10:15 PM PST reply actions
Love this topic
Lot’s of good feedback, and I happen to think that like the OP, the blazer’s depth is what is saving their season. When I heard Roy had back spasms, I was immediately grateful for Rudy. When Oden went down, I loved watching the Thrilla come through in a big way, even though he could have been angry that Oden had the opening day start.
If you have a good team-first culture than you can afford to stock a team like this with talented players. The competitiveness for each position means a quality player will be at each, and it will encourage the backups to step it up in front of the coach. This only becomes a problem if you have bad culture, than you have players whining about their minutes and throwing silly fits.
The Blazers are a great club top to bottom.
by seasnake333 on Nov 11, 2008 3:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
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