ellis may bolt

by 2phattoplay on Nov 5, 2008 10:18 AM PST Comment 52 comments

over on todays dime mag there is a piece about how ellis and goldenstate maybe parting company.Seems that they want to keep on piling on the punishment.according to the article this may come to a head as early as december.ellis would demand a trade and G.S. would nulify his contract. Would his game fit ours? If you were KP would you pull the trigger on a deal to bring him here. what would you offer.inquiring minds want to know.

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Where would he go?

In our lineup?

Marc Gasol´s formula.
Asked about his way to succeed, Marc Gasol said: "If the coach asks me for banging my own head 200 times, I do it. Even more, I do it 500 times."
--translated by Amlmart

by prezofdeath on Nov 5, 2008 10:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Starting PG

which would mean at least one of our PG’s would have to be dealt (probably to get him)

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would pull the trigger right away!

I would try and package one of our PGs (i love all three but i don’t care which one to get Ellis, which ever one golden state would want) probably Outlaw or Frye (which ever one Golden State would want more) and probably RLEC. With this they may have to throw in some random player to align contract numbers. Now of course if we can keep outlaw and frye, that would be even more favorable (say add some cash or some of our picks or unsigned picks) but if Golden State is smart they still value Ellis’ talent and would demand something good in return. I say a good backup possibly starting PF(Frye)/SF(Outlaw) with good upside, plus a back up point guard (all three have different attributes so its on what Golden State would want) and a cap space clearing contract for a very skilled ,yet now disconnected, up and comer, and a random nobody, is a good trade for both.

Can you provide a link at all of this article ?

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 10:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's the way he's treating his current franchise

giving ANYONE pause about signing him up?

by JordanLeDoux on Nov 5, 2008 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When's Ellis coming back?

If GS nullifies his contract, it’s because he’s not coming back as the same guy. There’s no way they let him out. THey’re just mad at him and showing it.

If we somehow did get him, giving up Outlaw, Frye could seriously weaken our ability to make the playoffs if the timing isn’t right. If we don’t have webster back yet. That also seriously harms the second unit, as we’d have no solid backup PF. Neither Diogu nor Randolph can match Frye.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Nov 5, 2008 10:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ellis would be comming back right around when Webster is

Yes Frye would be less ideal because of the gap he creates, it might make Outlaw shift to backup PF more which wouldn’t be the best thing, but it would also open up time for Batum SF and Pryzbilla possibly playing along side Oden for a few minutes here and there, Outlaw would be a little more ideal because no one would play out of position.

I went on trade machine to screw around since I’m at work and work sucks, but Ellis is not on the list of players at all on Golden State’s side, does anyone know of the reason why? Is it something about his contract, or his suspension?

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There's no way we're getting Ellis for spare parts

And salary dumps, if he is anywhere close to as good as he was before the injury.

They’re just playing hardball with him, perhaps stupidly.

Even if he was the type of player we needed (which I do not think he is), we ain’t gonna get a guy that young and talented for a grab bag of 2nd unit guys— even with Raef’s deal. Unless, Monta isn’t Monta anymore, and if that is the case why would we want a guy whose only skill is amazing athleticism who has just lost his athleticism?

My hunch is the Warriors are trying to hard-ass Monta as punishment and to set the tone. Monta was a dummy head for getting in that sort of accident, and if he hasn’t quite learned his lesson I can understand the Warriors really piling on. He’s supposed to be a pretty immature dude (according to local papers there), but a good dude, and should gain maturity but he doesn’t have that quality we enjoy in Roy/Martell/LMA/Oden/Blake/Joel/Frye/Rudy and even Bayless that you know they ain’t gonna be dumb off the court.

Not that he’s a bad kid, or mixed up in foolishness… just reportedly still very young.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't he essentially what Bayless could become?

Maybe B-Rex could be better one day, but there is no denying right now Ellis is years ahead.

by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2008 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The difference I see

Is that Bayless will BECOME a much better defender.

He has all of the tools, and has a bigger buffer frame plus all of the same quickness as Monta.

Bayless just needs more experience guarding NBA PGs. He’ll become a good defender as long as he keeps the effort up (and to play for Nate, he’ll have to).

Monta is light years ahead in scoring and has proven he’s a dynamic offensive talent, but such a bad defender that I’d say Bayless— even struggling out of the gate— is a much better defender than Monta.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You guy's need

to get over your Bayless fantasies. Yah, I know, Nate will give Jerryd all the chances in the world over Sergio …. that is his MO. But you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear …. he is still a 2 guard in a point guard’s body. And unless we need a 2 guard (think Roy and Rudy), he won’t end up fitting. He will be good trade bait.

Norsktroll, I read and consider your comments and posts more than any of those posted on B.E. But do you really think that Bayless will be better than Ellis? Well maybe I guess, if Ellis can’t come back from his injury.

by TwoDeep on Nov 5, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

I know expert scouts have compared his ceiling (read: if everything goes perfect) to Ellis, Wade, and Arenas. Essentially a scoring guard with team leading and passing abilities.

by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2008 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Usually the focus in these comparisons is on offense. Defensively, Mortimer could be right that he will be good pretty soon defending point guards. Roy thought so during the off-season.

by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2008 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and thanks for the compliment

I don’t think I’m the smartest poster or the one with the most basketball knowledge around here since I don’t have watched or read nearly as much as some guys. But I do try to be in the upper half to 20th percentile ;-)

by Norsktroll on Nov 6, 2008 2:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You need to think ahead

And not focus so much on the now. Right now, Bayless is a 20 year old rookie.

In the future, when he is 24, 25, and with the work ethic he has shown and the EFFORT he has shown defensively, he’ll likely be a good defender. He’s also a smart kid.

He’s a willing passer, and needs to learn the ins and outs of NBA PGing. It isn’t a fantasy to imagine a crazy scenario where a 20 year old improves at something.

Sergio’s been given his chances, and still is. He’s still just ok, isn’t effective when others aren’t making shots, and can’t keep anyone in front of him. He’s more effective than Bayless right now, but Bayless has all of the athleticism in the world and a serious work ethic. Add to that he’s a smart kid, and you got a kid who is going to be good.

There is no way around that— Bayless will be a very talented player.

Whether he’ll fit us or not, we’ll see. His potential is arguably MUCH higher than Sergio’s, due to Sergio’s limited offensive game and difficulty with athletic defense.

For now, he’s 20 and for whatever reason you think player’s remain the same and negatives never improve. I don’t get that.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 6, 2008 1:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Bayless has a better chance than some of the other guys in his shoes.

He seems to want to get better at his weaknesses, which is one reason he may be sucking so bad right now. I don’t think he is used to looking for the open man , so this new concept is taking him out of his comfort zone.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Nov 6, 2008 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would trade Outlaw or Frye and RLEC and Blake/Sergio for Ellis

Monta Ellis is absolutely phenomenal. He would instantly make the Blazers a definite playoff team.

We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.

by MT Suit on Nov 5, 2008 10:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

You'd have to include bayless

Bayless would become obsolete if Ellis was here. We will still need a floor general and would have to keep either Blake or Sergio. Preferably blake if we were to get ellis.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 5, 2008 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't Ellis a shoot first PG with questionable defense?

It would take a lot to get him, and then it sounds like a bad fit. But then, I don’t really know much about him.

by shralpster on Nov 5, 2008 10:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's more of his system that he played in and his team as him and Davis were the best scoring options

If you look at the end of the season his was consistantly around 7 assists per game, I see him as a billups-like guard, he can and will get his own shot but can dish it to

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Defense I havn't heard much bad or good on so I can't comment on that

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He is one of the worst defenders in the league

Monta Ellis is an amazing scorer.

He is one of the worst, THE worst defenders in the NBA at the guard position.

7 assists a game is good, but I’d take that as pace-related and not actual playmaking. I’ve never see him be a very good creator for others, or even a very good dribbler. He ain’t a PG, in other words.

WHAT HE IS, is a very good undersized 2-guard who Golden State was gonna force into a PG role. He is a more experienced Bayless, and I think Bayless is a much smarter player and closer to being a PG than Monta is (and Monta is a much better scorer right now than Bayless is). Bayless is also a better defender currently and has the potential to really become a good defender.

Monta isn’t the best choice for our PG spot, since he’s one dimensional. An exciting dimension, sure, but not what we need.

I think Bayless will become the Thinking Man’s Monta Ellis. Whether that is what we need or not will remain to be seen, but the Current Man’s Monta Ellis is just a scorer who is abysmal defensively.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

thats pretty accurate

I’m not convinced Bayless will be a good defender tho…

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 5, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

WHo is this "thinking man?"

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Nov 5, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He is pretty bad at defense,

but I wouldn’t say any worse than a guy like Sergio (which is almost awful). Ellis would work if we had enough defenders, especially big guys down low who can collapse when a man gets past Monta. Chris Paul is a poor defender, but it works because Tyson Chandler and David West pick up the slack. If the Blazers could get Monta Ellis for cheap they would have to do it, but they can’t so I guess it doesn’t matter.

http://atthehive.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/is-chris-paul-bad-at-defense/

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Nov 5, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ellis can't play D

i watch a lot of GS games on league pass (my roommate’s a fan) and ellis is not a good defender.

http://theblowtorch.blogspot.com/2008/03/nellie-teaches-monta-defense.html

JAH

by abetterbomb on Nov 5, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

well there you go

Thank You for that, Ill now go back to my favorite PG to try and trade for (both skill and current situation with the team and a certain rookie pushing him for minutes)…..Felton…….anyone with me?

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hee hee

Felton is a horrible defender/shooter/attitude also.

Felton is… bad. Good numbers, but so did Jarrett Jack. And if one disliked Jack’s turnovers, wait till ya get a load of Felton!

He has the propensity to be a tub, also. And isn’t very quick. And he shoots a lot, especially for someone who can’t shoot.

Oh, and he’s a horrible defender. There’s a reason a dwarf rookie is challenging him for minutes. Felton’s numbers his first few years are fools gold.

FOOOOOOOOOOOL’S GOOOOOOLLLLDDDD, I TELL THEE!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

And to clarify

I ain’t laughing at YOU, Trail Ducker, I’m laughing at me cause I keep pooping on your PG ideas.

I’m not trying to poop on ya or anything like that, just wanna clarify.

If anyone is getting pooped on, it is Felton and Monta’s PG ability in terms of being right for the Blazers.

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ya thanks, I wasn't taking it bad

BUT quit breaking my heart! lol

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well the couple games I saw him play last year he looked pretty good to me

I have him in my fantasy league right now, his shot, isn’t hitting so far this year in 3-4 games, you got that, but turnovers, he gets like 2-3 a game, that’s not bad for a point guard, defense, again I’m not a specialist and don’t study that when I watch games (which I probably should so I know more and sound smarter). He’s had 2 good games assists wise, one meh game and one horrible game, but from what I read, that whole game was horrible for anybody in a bobcat uniform. I don’t see another PG worth getting that we have a possibility getting if those two are no go’s. I stilll think tahts what we need to get, unless Bayless starts killing and becomes a starting calliber PG (but personally I see a couple of years for that to happen), and I love Sergio but I don’t see him getting to the level as a starting PG on a championship team, but if we keep him I think he could be a very productive and dynamic back-up. Laker’s probably wont let Farmar go, you know Utah and NO wont let D Will and CP3 go! not too crazy about Gordon or Hinrich, Jameer Nelson ehhhh, Kidd and Miller to old. Boston and Detroit wont let go of Rondo or Stucky for what we’d give them. Jameer, Alston not good enough for me, who else is there worth going for?

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and I realize i said jameer twice, so dont make me feel stupider

…..did i just say stupider?

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich would be an ecxellent match

Sergio will be awesome. I’m still not sure whether that will be with us or not. There’s also this other kid coming out of Spain next year. If your patient, maybe KP can find a way to get him. If you’re into PGs, find a way to do it.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Nov 5, 2008 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ricky Rubio?

I didnt know he was coming out next year…Agreed on the Hinrich.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 5, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just guessing he is. But that would be sort a soon wouldn't it.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Nov 5, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they said he was going to be in the next draft during the olympics

But he would be a top 5 pick, we would probably have to give up one of the big (4 if u count Rudy) to get him

by Trail Ducker on Nov 5, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

All we gotta do

Is miss the playoffs and either be bottom-5 bad, or win a top 3 spot in the lottery!

EASY BREEZY BEAUTIFUL COVER GIRL, am I right?

Morty

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ya

he just turned 18 recently. he’ll be something special when he comes out tho. is he interested in the nba tho?

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 5, 2008 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, he comin' out!

He turns 18 this year and is already a pro or some rule like that, and will be 19 during his first season in the NBA, so he is eligible for the draft (I might have one or three details wrong there, but the point remains the same— if he wants to, he’ll be a lotto pick next year).

I think Hinrich could be a good fit too, and his contract isn’t THAT bad. If we didn’t have cap space coming up and the open ended possibilities that brings, I’d be fine with snagging Hinrich… and I’d be fine with Hinrich even if we end up using the cap space for Hinrich ultimately.

Hinrich’s deal is about equal to Darius’, so we’d still have cap space with him.

I like Hinrich, don’t love him, but he could bounce back to be quite the catch.

The cap space is fun! Who the (heck) knows what we gonna do wit’ it.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

rubio is coming out. book it.

honor terry porter

by Ben. on Nov 5, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And we can watch him in Sactown. Or OKC. Or on some other bottom-dweller team.

by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

After watching the Clippers

They look like they’ll be down there too. Really, really bad.

The Kings have been shockingly bad, since they got decent pieces and “only” lost Artest. I say “only” because we know he is very talented, but was such a ballhog and disruptive for their offense I thought they’d maybe have a Z-Bo’s Gone effect.

Nope!

Of course, Kevin Martin hasn’t started off that well, with only one good scoring game and nothing else whatsoever. Perhaps the added attention isn’t fitting him well, but I’m sure he’ll be fine.

Brad Miller has been suspended too, so they’ve relied on Spencer Hawes. Relying on Hawes to do anything but suck is a recipe for suck.

Jason Thompson looks good though. He’s a keeper.

The Warriors look bad too.

The only team we gotta worry about are the Nuggets, who I haven’t watched yet.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Clips look a lot worser and badder than I thought

I mean, on paper that starting lineup looks like 35 wins, and the bench like another 10 to 15. Well, last year the Wizards started out 0-5 as well and still ended up in the playoffs. In the East.

As for the Kings, they seem to have lost all mojo. Martin should be relieved now that he is the #1 and can do what he wants, but he doesn’t look like it. Udrih looks like a worse version of Sergio. And their power forwards have no power. It’s not too promising.

by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

As far as I can tell

The Clippers are a terrific example of a team with TALENT but ZERO winners. Like, NO ONE you can depend on.

After Baron got his deal, I figured he’s playing 50 games a year for the rest of his years. He got his last big contract, he’s in his hometown, it’s time to relax. He knows the Clippers ain’t winnin’ nuthin, he got paid, why not live a little?

Baron is extremely talented, his departure murders the Warriors chances at mediocrity, but he just ain’t a winner. He doesn’t care, except when it’s a big TV game and the spotlight is on him.

Camby is overrated, I wonder if his presence hurts Kaman, Ricky Davis is on the team for Petey’s sake (right?), Mobley ain’t done nuthin’ ever, Al Thornton is the oldest raw athletic 2nd year player ever (though he has talent), and the team is just kinda thrown together.

I always liked Dunleavy, but yeah… that team doesn’t look good. At ALL.

Beno Udrih’s play has, believe it not, surprised me with his badness. He put up good numbers during his contract push, got a nice MLE contract, and I hoped for the Kings sake it wasn’t Fool’s Gold.

Hell, I needed a PG for the last round of my fantasy club and figured I’d give Beno a try because of the time tested “so-so player but on a even worse team so that player puts up numbers because SOMEONE has to” strategy.

It hasn’t gone as planned.

But hey, if they draft Rubio, we can steal Udrih away! Isn’t the poor defending, so-so shooting kinda spendy Euro former Spur exactly what we’ve been dreaming of?!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Beno, just not at his new price

Same with Salmons and Garcia. That combo costs them as much as like 3 Roys or 10 Rudys. Okay, our guys are still on rookie scales and arguably underpaid, but that’s too much for that amount of talent on a rather small-market team.

The Warriors without Baron (who likes to hang out with Jessica Alba and Steve Nash these days more than with his teammates) AND Ellis would be pure suck, likely causing Jackson and/or Biedrins to ask for a trade. They just can’t let that happen.

Has Camby realized he doesn’t play for the Nuggets anymore? When will he get over the fact he got traded for nothing but cap space? Christmas? Eastern? Never?

by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's my feelings too

He’s been zeroed in on the NBA since ever. Since EVER.

Or at least, the NBA has been zeroed in on him.

I know Amlmart1 has addressed the Rubio-2-NBA belief, but I can’t remember what he said… if a kid can be a top 5 pick and all the riches it entails, I’d guess he’d do it as well (plus, the NBA is awesome).

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 5, 2008 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree with that

if we didnt have capspace, then hinrich would be awesome…but since we have so much the skys the limit.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 5, 2008 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL, good find abetterbomb

here it is for those who are link-phobic…

Hands up like this Coach?

NO! GET YOUR ARMS UP AND OUT!

Better?

Ay carumba.

by shralpster on Nov 5, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be nice to see

Ellis play for a real coach.

"Hightide was the only "Yes" vote" - parkinglotj

Joel Freeland=Stud

by hightide on Nov 5, 2008 11:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not sure about this

But if Ellis got pissed enough to get on a plane to Europe is there any thing GS could do about it or would he be burning his bridges with the NBA?

by southern oregon on Nov 5, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not while he is under contract, so only if GS would cancel the big deal. The leagues respect each other’s legal running contracts, though of course not the CBA since that doesn’t exist in Europe (no right to match offers after a contract is up, etc.). Otherwise US clubs would start ignoring buyouts and such, resulting in a host of processes.

by Norsktroll on Nov 5, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bayless

Rex is also a better outside shooter though he hasn’t shown it in games yet.

According to 82games.com adjusted +/- Ellis is a bad defender. Ellis is Tony Parker Lite in an up-tempo system. I’d rather see what we can get out of Bayless. I think that in a few years, we’ll be glad we did.

Blazer's fan since '84, Currently exiled in San Antonio

↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

by HurraKane212 on Nov 5, 2008 3:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I've read scouting reports predicting Rubio as a possible # 1 pick.

The kid is absolutely sick. Not a very good chance we’ll get a shot at him. Blake played well tonight. Hit the open 3’s didn’t get exposed on defense and calmed the offense down. I still think there is a good chance Blake will be the long term PG, given the lack of quality PG’s out there.

by dario argento on Nov 6, 2008 12:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs