Trade Assessment
by Dave on Nov 4, 2008 12:53 AM PST
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PrintOne of the continually hot topics at any fan-based site is the possibility of trades. Every 4-6 months or so we like to run down the roster and assess the possibilities of players moving. We haven’t done it in a while, so that’s today’s topic.
We’re going to use several metrics to evaluate each player’s trade likelihood. Production, potential, and salary all factor in plus the player’s desirability around the league (hard to assess, but you can infer some things through news, rumors, and general knowledge of what type of players have high trade value) and the player’s value to the Blazers. We’ll season that stew with any other circumstances that might be in play.
Before somebody asks (because someone always does)…no, this contains no “inside” information. It’s not like KP calls me up and asks what I think of potential deals. Even if I did get something through the grapevine it’s extremely unlikely I could reveal it in this format without betraying somebody’s trust. It’s just an analytical look at an interesting topic.
We’ll take the players in alphabetical order. Consider the assessments ballpark. Production, for instance, takes into account a little bit of history as much as the three games this year. Value assessments are independent of contract until the written analysis.
Lamarcus Aldridge
Production: 18 pts, 8 rebs, 48% shooting
Potential: High
Contract: $4.6 million, rookie scale
League Value: High
Blazers Value: Very High
Lamarcus is young, talented, and hasn’t finished his development yet. He produces a ton for the money and is considered a franchise cornerstone. Outside of a mega-deal offer he’s not going anywhere.
Chances of Trade: Almost Nil
Nicolas Batum
Production: Not determined yet
Potential: Average-Fairly High
Contract: $1.0 million, rookie scale
League Value: Low
Blazers Value: Average-Fairly High
Nic hasn’t had time to garner attention around the league yet and most of the league passed on the chance to draft him just a few months ago. The Blazers seem enthused about his possibilities as a defending, shooting, running small forward and for a million bucks a year they’re going to let the potential play out unless someone else insists upon him as a trade add-in that would net a desirable player.
Chances of Trade: Low
Jerryd Bayless
Production: Not determined yet
Potential: Average-Fairly High
Contract: $2.0 million, rookie scale
League Value: Average-Low
Blazers Value: Average-Fairly High? (I suspect it depends on who you ask.)
Jerryd has fallen out of favor with fans as he’s not busted his way onto the rotation yet, but the experts don’t switch their opinions as quickly as fans. He’s not the kind of player other teams would go out of their way to get straight up but he’d be an enticing more-than-throw-in in a multi-player deal. The Blazers likely wouldn’t part with him until they see more of what they’ve got, though. Teams rarely trade guys they just drafted.
Chances of Trade: Low
Steve Blake
Production: 9 pts, 5 assists, 40%+ 3pt shooting
Potential: None beyond what he’s showing
Contract: $4.3 million, two years total
League Value: Low
Blazers Value: Average
Blake’s a solid guy. What you see is what you get. His trade value isn’t great but he could be another potential throw-in with benefits. Right now he’s more than serviceable for the Blazers though. He’s the only dependable true point guard they have plus a key outside shooting threat. Other players are encroaching upon his spot, however, and should the right deal come along (like for a better point guard, for instance) I don’t think they’d have problems moving him.
Chances of Trade: Low Average
Ike Diogu
Production: 6 points, 3 rebs
Potential: Maybe some, but beginning to look questionable
Contract: $2.9 million, qualifying offer ahead
League Value: Almost None
Blazers Value: Low
Ike was a throw-in to make the Jack + Rush for Bayless deal work. That’s about his value right now too. Until he shows he’s back from injury and in shape he’ll not draw much interest except as an add-on or a contract escape.
Chances of Trade: Low
Rudy Fernandez
Production: Not determined yet
Potential: Very High
Contract: $1.1 million, rookie scale
League Value: High
Blazers Value: High
Rudy is starting to open eyes and I’d be surprised if there weren’t some teams hoping to get him on the cheap. It won’t happen unless an eye-popping offer gets thrown
Chances of Trade: Very Low
Channing Frye
Production: 7 pts, 5 rebs
Potential: Average
Contract: $3.1 million, qualifying offer ahead
League Value: Average
Blazers Value: Average-Low (depending on Travis Outlaw’s situation)
Channing is still a young guy and his game is still developing. But as we’ve mentioned a hundred times he’s caught in a numbers crunch in
Chances of a Trade: Fairly High
Raef LaFrentz
Production: Buh?
Potential: Whuzzah?
Contract: $12.7 million, expiring
League Value: Extremely Low or Extremely High, depending
Blazers Value: Almost nil
We all know about the RLEC. There are a couple things to realize. First, expiring contracts aren’t universally valuable. Some teams--usually good teams--have zero interest in trading away talent for cap relief. You have to hit the right team with the right mix of talent to make it work. Second, Raef’s contract going off the books will actually give us money to spend next summer. This is not usually the case with expiring contracts. Often a team cannot let the contract expire without trading it away because its absence won’t take them under the cap anyway, so it’s useless unless traded. Not so for
Chances of a Trade: Fairly High
Greg Oden
Production: Not determined yet
Potential: Astronomical
Contract: $5 million, rookie scale
League Value: Very High
Blazers Value: Very High
Not going anywhere.
Chances of a Trade: Nil
Travis Outlaw
Production: 13 pts, 4-5 rebs
Potential: Average-Fairly High
Contract: $4 million, two years total
League Value: Average-Fairly High
Blazers Value: ???
Travis is the big wildcard in these scenarios. The Blazers have valued him fairly highly over the years and, as we said, professional opinions don’t change with the wind. On the other hand he’s not developing quickly and his potential is beginning to wear thin. He’s been rumored to be available, though he’ll hardly be thrown into a yard sale. If the Blazers believe in Travis then several other players--Webster, Batum, Frye--become more available. On the other hand if the Blazers believe some combination of those players will provide for
Chances of a Trade: Average-Fairly High
Joel Przybilla
Production: 4 pts, 9 rebs
Potential: None further
Contract: $6.3 million, three years total
League Value: Low-Average
Blazers Value: Fairly High
If Greg Oden were healthy and on his way to producing then Joel Przybilla might be a candidate for moving. Oden’s not, so Joel is not likely to go anywhere this year.
Chances of a Trade: Low
Shavlik Randolph
Production: 4 pts, 4 rebs???
Potential: Low
Contract: $0.8 million
League Value: Low
Blazers Value: Low
Shavlik wouldn’t garner much interest around the league so he’s not going anywhere except as a salary throw-in.
Chances of a Trade: Low
Sergio Rodriguez
Production: 3 pts, 2 assists
Potential: Average-Fairly High
Contract: $0.9 million, rookie scale
League Value: Low
Blazers Value: Low-Average
Sergio hasn’t produced enough to warrant much attention, save perhaps in specialized circumstances. If he plays well and earns more minutes this year he’d likely be a guy opposing GM’s call about, hoping to pry him from the Blazers’ point guard thicket. At this point, though, he’s just a back-up point guard for the Blazers. He’s only leaving as part of a multi-player deal in which he’s not the principal.
Chances of a Trade: Low
Brandon Roy
Production: 19 pts, 6 assists, 4 rebs
Potential: Average (How much higher can it go?)
Contract: $3.1 million, rookie scale
League Value: Very High
Blazers Value: Very High
This kind of production at that price, plus he’s the heart and soul of the team? Forget it.
Chances of a Trade: Nil
Martell Webster
Production: 10 pts, 4 rebs, 39% 3pt shooting
Potential: Average-Fairly High
Contract: $3.7 million, 4-5 years total
League Value: Average
Blazers Value: Average
We said over the summer that the Blazers would show a vote of confidence in some of these qualifying offer players by negotiating with them early. Martell is the first guy they signed. The contract is still quite tradable, though, so you can’t rule out a deal entirely. Still the coaching staff has mentioned his improvement and he’s an outside shooter, both of which recommend him to this team. His value may be slightly higher to the Blazers right now than it is around the league.
Chances of a Trade: Fairly Low
As you can see, the favorable mix for a trade (noteworthy talent, tradable contract, value higher elsewhere than to the team) is fairly rare on the Blazer roster right now. Relatively few Blazers as individuals fit the bill.
We mentioned that expiring contracts are not universally acceptable for trades. We should also add a caveat about potential. You can get players for young potential but the choices are limited. Usually you’re going to have to pick up a veteran or a questionable contract. Sometimes you can get other young players with potential in return. The guys you can’t get for potential are the guys you want: established stars or young guys on the cusp of exploding. I’ve heard several scenarios involving multiple Blazers for
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Good stuff Dave
You actually beat me to a post I’d been working on for a little while, but that’s cool! Yours was likely more in-depth than mine would have been! I agree with you that the Blazers aren’t even sure what to do with Outlaw. I believe at some point, people need to understand that if you’re still using the word “potential” on a sixth year NBA player, then he may not grow to be everything you’d hoped.
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
The Outlaw drama
Reminds me of last season, where Outlaw started off rocky and made quite a few boneheaded mistakes in the 4th quarter. I even asked Dave why Trout was getting so much time in the 4th quarter, when he had repeatedly made so many dumb mistakes, and Dave turned it into a front page column.
There was much worry about Outlaw, and what he would become. Nate stuck with Trout though, and it proved to be the right decision and Travis won over a lot of people last season with his scoring.
Perhaps it is because Outlaw finds it impossible to fit in conditioning and working on his game between his busy off-season schedule (the fish ain’t gonna catch themself), but this slow not-good-lookin’ start has occurred before. Outlaw might turn his early season around the same time our team as a whole is gelling, and we forget all about how Trout is sticking out like a sore thumb.
I really like Outlaw, but I’ve never really been a fan of his game. I am of the opinion that getting a guy who only scores is one of the easiest things to do in the NBA. It helps that Outlaw is such a great guy, and friends with our best players, but on the court he is still so limited— and since we’ve never even seen glimpses of the ability to branch out (like we’ve seen with Martell or Batum or Bayless, for example) I can’t expect he’ll magically change his entire approach and make-up of his game.
Outlaw is what he is.
Now, he’s pretty cheap for a good scorer. If we want him to be a scorer off the bench, we won’t do much better. Don’t pay him too much, and don’t expect much more, and we’ll be happy with him.
However, Outlaw likely has decent value league wide. Some GMs might not see the glaring holes in his game we all focus on, and see the dynamic scoring and clutch play and imagine what he would do in the starting lineup. He is still very young and full of potential— even as a 6th year player. I think he will likely get better at what he is currently good at (scoring) and not improve much in areas he hasn’t even shown a glimpse of being mediocre at (defense, working within an offense, decision making— though his decision making has vastly improved with experience).
It’s still a tough decision whether to move him or not (of course, it depends on the deal, but even if a good deal for us it could still be hard to move him). He is useful, and I choose to appreciate what he does instead of being angry at all that he sucks at— I don’t ever expect him to be good at those things or to be the type of guy to work on his game in the offseason, so I won’t be upset when Outlaw doesn’t come through on the ‘well-rounded-player’ thing.
I prefer guys who work hard and really want to be as good as they can be, and not just say it. Outlaw has the physical tools to be pretty good, but will always be limited by his asthma and work ethic (at least his offseason work ethic… I think once he is with the coaches, he does what he is supposed to do. He ain’t Darius or sumthin’!).
If one is upset with what it appears Outlaw may be as a player, I suggest just re-adjusting your expectations. A guy so slow laterally, shows little ability to know where to be on offense or defense, little court awareness on offense or defense, and struggles when given multiple options of what to do with the ball instead of his normal “TAKE THE BALL AND SHOOT IT” isn’t going to suddenly become Tayshaun Prince, like I remember some of us fans hoping for.
If a player has never ever shown a glimpse of a certain attribute or skill before, they are not likely to suddenly develop it. It does not usually work that way, except for very young players. Outlaw is young, but 6 years IS enough time to know what Outlaw isn’t.
He’s a scorer, not much else.
And for what he is paid, that’s just fine. I’m totally fine with Outlaw being a role player-scorer for a long time.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Nov 4, 2008 2:01 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I was one of those
won over by Outlaw last season. I think he and Webster can co-exist. I even think that Outlaw can co-exist with Frye.
I have to agree.
He drives me nuts, but in the end I think we’re better with Trout.
Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.
http://www.myspace.com/y5k
IDEC
Ike is in effect an expiring contract. That perhaps means you’ve underrated the likelihood of him being traded, I’d put it at average rather than low.
I’m not sure of the rules, but I think Martell’s new contract makes him a BYC player, and that would complicate matters in trading him until next summer. If so, I’d put the possibility of him being traded as very low — I don’t think they want to send Martell anywhere.
I agree that Travis and Channing, along with the expiring contracts, are the most likely to be traded. I doubt Channing goes anywhere until Greg is back and demonstrably healthy, though (unless Randolph is tearing it up in practice and they are confident he can do a job at backup PF).
I doubt Travis goes anywhere until Martell is back, unless Nate starts to use a three guard lineup to good effect for 15-20 minutes a game. You don’t really want to be down to Batum as your only SF. The exception would be if Travis is traded as part of a deal to bring us a quality SF, and the Martell extension makes me think they see Martell as the long-term solution for us at SF.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
At this moment in time, ...
Martell Webster’s contract has a poison pill provision.
Next season, however, Webster will be a base year compensation player.
OK
So those two things make it pretty hard to move him unless you are trading with someone who has cap room or a trade exception, right? Now, since the numbers are relatively small, he could be part of a blockbuster trade because of the 25% rule, I think. If you’ve got $15 million in salaries going back and forth, the special provisions for his contract aren’t necessarily killers.
But I think it is a very low possibility that Martell gets traded this year, and not real likely next year, either. He’s got two years to prove he’s part of the solution.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
actually, neither
He would only by a BYC player starting next summer if he got a 20% raise. His salary this year is 3,771,133, and next year’s is a presumed 4,319,654, which is only about a 15% raise, so BYC will not apply.
Technically, he does have a PPP, but since his new salary is not that much higher than his current salary, it would not at all be diffiicult to work around. For a new team, his incoming trade value is 4,754,226 while his outgoing value for us is 3,771,133. That difference is easy to make up considering the 125% rule.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
Thanks, that's helpful
Like I said, I wasn’t sure of the rules. It seemed like the rule was there to prevent giving someone a big raise just for salary matching purposes, so I didn’t think it should really apply. So trading Martell is feasible.
I still think it is pretty unlikely to happen this year. If you sign a guy for four years, it is tacky to trade him away two months later. I don’t see us doing that. A year later, sure.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
agreed
I think Martel was signed to keep. Not to say he won’t be traded if we are getting a starter back, just to say that I think our plans are to keep him.
I think all that talk about the open competition for the starting spot was just talk. It was Martel’s job all along, and still is.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
Wow, I didn't even take that into consideration.
Although I’m not a big fan of Martell Webster, Kevin Pritchard definitely re-signed him to a cost-effective contract extension. Nobody can hate on that.
Based on what Dave and Jscot...
have pointed out, I couldn’t help but to ponder trade scenarios. Based on our players’ value to other teams we really can’t acquire superstar talent via trade unless we give up one or more of our big 3. Blasphemous, right?!…Wrong.
While Oden sits the guy whose value skyrockets is TheMancus Aldridge. He’s aggressive, he takes games personally, and he seems to have the greatest potential for further improvement of any Blazer (other than Greg). LMA is also very popular in the state of texas, a state that has 3 teams burgeoning with star talent.
No, not TMac. Not Artest. Not Yao. Not Timbo. Not Tony Longoria. Not JKidd.
Of the Rockets, Mavs, and Spurs, only one is owned by crazy-guy Mark Cuban. He’s eccentric and has been ranting lately about the state of the economy. Offer him RLEC and IDEC, JB and Trout (along with overseas talents PetKo and Freeland) for the former MVP and the depressing contract of Jerry Stackhouse. I know it’s hard to think of Cuban parting with Nowitzki, but the two have had their chances to get it done and simply haven’t. Dirk has looked softer than normal in their first few games and could use a change in scenery and culture. He would have plenty of moral support in Portland with Brandon and GO around.
Furthermore, as it now stands the Mavs are 1-2 on the season. Tomorrow they’re on the road at San Antonio—a team starving for its first victory. Then on Friday they play at Denver, a much-improved team in my opinion now that they have an nba-caliber point guard on their team for once. They then face the Lakers at home two games later. The Dallas Mavericks could very well be in tenth place or worse in the West to begin the season. The time to jump on an antsy and erratic owner is while Oden hides in the shadows and LaMarcus garners all the attention.
Don’t get me wrong, I love LaMarcus. But I think this trade works for both teams, just like the denver-detroit trade that went down yesterday. With RLEC, IDEC, and JKEC, as well as trading away the two multi-year deals in Dirk and Stack, Dallas will have sheered it’s atrocious payroll in half while simultaneously adding 3 exciting players in LMA, JBay and Trout. Koponen sits in the wings for them as well and will probably become more serviceable than JJ Barea, or at least I would hope. The cap relief would allow Dallas to go after free agents next summer or make moves for players like Boozer, Odom or Carter. After all, Dallas is an attractive team and market to play for, and free agents’ agents will be trying to get huge offers from Cuban since he’s been known to pay-up in the past (unless your name is Don Nelson). Plus, LMA is a Texas boy, did I mention that? With BRoy and Greg getting all the hype, I don’t think LMA would mind at all going to Dallas, as well as the distinction of being the best player traded for a former MVP.
For the Blazers, the 14 feet of inside-outside threat that is Oden (er…or Pryz) and Dirk combined with BRoy’s playmaking abilities would be peachy. As big as Oden is, I think Dirk’s face-up and perimeter game is better suited to our offense than LMA’s. I think LMA’s is better suited for Dallas’s offense right now as well. The guy can run like a gazelle but is rarely freed from his cage under the basket. With JKidd, Terry, and Howard on his team, LMA could put up some serious stats, and the team would probably become his by right. Trout and JBay are promising role players that can also run and put up integers.
Dallas-and Cuban especially-may be tired of their veteran leader after a lousy start. I’d be sick if I were them, seeing my leader balk under playoff pressure year after year and play soft during the regular season. In Portland however, Dirk’s weakness—his frailness—can be absorbed by an already strong talent in Oden (assuming all goes well and he plays again). Dirk won’t have to worry about his ankles getting broken in Portland, simply allow the defender to go by and attack the rim…see what happens! Dirk is a tall man who can swish it with an ounce of daylight, something this team really needs now that we have neither James Jones nor Webster playing.
There’s also the veteran effect, or affect. This team could use a little experience, and I think Dirk won’t be satisfied with his career until he gets a ring—a looming improbability in Dallas. He’s hungry to get back to the finals and prove to everyone that he earned that MVP, even though he had to accept him after his one-seed team got knocked out in the first round.
Anyways, for those who love blockbusters…are you not entertained?!
My mom babysat Paul Allen, no lie. Check the profile.
So let me get this straight....
LaMarcus Aldridge, Travis Outlaw, Jerryd Bayless, RLEC, IDEC, Petteri Koponen and Joel Freeland for a 30 year old Dirk Nowitzki?
I don’t think that even deserves to be discussed.
Well when you say it like that
It truly doesn’t even need to be discussed, KP would pull the trigger in a split second!
How many MVP’s do LMA, Trout, Bayless, Raef, Ike, and the rights to Petteri and Freeland have? Dirk has more MVPs than all of them COMBINED. Think about that for a second— Dirk is only one player, yet 7 players COMBINED cannot match his MVP totals.
PULL THE TRIGGER, KP!
Obviously, Dirk is still a great player, and if we already had him I wouldn’t complain and he would go well with Oden, but his age and softness and defense are not worth the price we would have to pay to get him. He belongs in Dallas, not in Portland. LMA, I think, fits Oden perfectly in every way AND they can play together for a dozen years because they are so young. Dirk is still in his prime, but won’t likely be that way for that many years… and let’s say he’s washed up in 4 years, and Oden is just coming into his own. Then we gotta find another great PF to go alongside our franchise center, and where did it get us?
Is Dirk gonna win us a title? If he couldn’t do it for Dallas he ain’t doing it for us as he gets older.
This isn’t really a slight against Dirk, but giving up LMA and all of that talent is simply not worth it when it gets us nowhere for the NOW and hurts us quite a bit in the future.
Dirk will just have to come to terms with himself over not ever winning a title.
Mortimer
pursue dirk..forget stackhouse
why take on their salary nightmares…pack them up channing and trav leave LMA alone..leave bayless alone…shop draft picks and low salary for cuban..
Dirk is a gifted chucker...
That is past his prime and will be remembered as a tall white guy who could put the ball in the whole but ultimately wasn’t a winner.
Rooo-D!
I counter your Blasphemous trade with an even more Blasphemous trade
Why trade for an MVP that can’t win a title when you can trade for the player that took that title from him! Yes that is right, we can and should make a trade for D.Wade. Before we get into why each team would do this, lets see the trade machine, because that is what this is all about, having fun with the trade machine! (can we please stop having 3 days between games?)
Teams and Players
Portland trades: ROY
Portland recieves: Wade
Miami Trades: Wade, Marion, Haslem
Miami recieves: Roy, Hamilton, Prince, Johnson, RLEC
Detroit Trades: Hamilton, Prince, Johnson
Detroit recieves: Marion, Haslem
Ok so the basic idea here is that Wade would be a perfect fit on this team and make Portland a title contender next year, if not this year. Think about what Wade could provide Portland, here is just a short list I thought of off the top of my head.
1. Instant respect from officals, leading to more FT’s for the team.
2. Attacking player, unafraid to take it to the hole and finish strong.
3. A Strong defender against the wests elite PGs
4. Someone to take all of the pressure off of Greg.
I am sure there are way more, but again that is just a few of the things he would provide besides his obvious gifts on the court. Can you imagin a starting unit of Wade, Rudy, Web, LMA, and Oden? With Outlaw, Batum, Fry, Pryz, Bayless, and Sergio providing depth at all positions.
The draw back from Portland’s side is to get Wade you have to give up something big, and in this case it is Brandon Roy. Right now Brandon is one of those players Dave talked about as, on the Cusp of greatness. Miami would want him, but not in a straight up deal for Wade, which is why inorder to get Wade without gutting the Blazers, we have to involve a 3rd team involved. Detroit just sent out the signal that they are looking to win now or go home, and if they don’t play really well with AI before the deadline, Joey D might just be willing to pull the trigger on just such a blockbuster. So from Portlands view this trade to me is a slam dunk, they would basically be moving Roy for Wade, and eventhough I love Roy, Wade is a better talent and at 28 years old, he is only 4 years older than Roy and will still be in his prime for 6 years or so.
Miami – Miami only does this if they really want to build a winner, because as it sits, their salary cap number won’t let them do that. They are going to be a low end playoff team or just outside the playoffs with their current team, meaning they won’t be getting a high pick again anytime soon, and they won’t be winning anything again anytime soon either. With this trade they would get 3 all star type players to go with their #2 pick. Their line up could like something like, Roy, Hamiton, Prince, Beasley, and Center of choice. The bueaty of this deal for them is salary cap flexibility in the future to bring in more pieces to win. After this trade, this team would still be a low playoff team or just outside like they are now, but with Hamiton’s and Johnson’s contracts expiring after next season, and Roy still being on his rookie deal, they would have a 1 summer window to bring in a good FA in the summer of riches, (2010). RLEC offsets Marion’s expiring deal this summer, (although not in full) so they would be about the same this summer. I think it is a strong case to make this trade, but Wade puts butts in the seats, so if they are more worried about making short term money than the long term success of the franchise they won’t do it.
Detroit. Ok this is where my deal falls apart, because I don’t see anyway Joey D ships Prince and Hamilton out for Marion’s expiring contract and Udonis Haslem. If they are seriously wanting to make a run at the summer of 2010 than ok maybe, but I can’t see them trading 2 All-Star players for cap space and the potential to sign a…wait for it….All-star player, unless his name is LBJ, but there is already at least two teams in that hunt and many more trying to get there, so some are going to lose out. If Detroit goes that route and misses on LBJ they would have given up Prince and Hamilton for nothing, that is a BIG risk.
So there you go, that is my counter to your blockbuster. We now have one trade proposal involving LMA for DIRK, and one involving ROY for WADE. Personally of the two I would rather have Wade, I can just imagin having the Olympics Wade on the Blazers scoring 18-20 ppg, on 48% shooting, and playing sufficating defense. On a team with Oden, Rudy, and LMA that is possible, on the team Miami has currently it is not.
The way this is going to shake down...
There are a lot of teams in the NBA right now that think they’re legitimate contenders. To some extent that describes us. As the year progresses some teams (4 or 5) will find out that not only are they not contenders, but they’re not playoff teams. This’ll become more evident by January or early February, and by that point, a lot of the players we covet from multiple teams will all of a sudden become available. Even those pesky gel players that teams hang onto for dear life. At that point, the idea of dropping below the cap by 10-20 million dollars becomes priority number one, and we’ll be the first team people call this year. Not only do we have valuable expiring contract, but we have young guys with potential that don’t see a lot of time here, and that’s a combination virtually every team in that scenario will die for. What I ask of the fans around this site, is don’t settle. We’ll be able to pull a player out from someone that currently probably isn’t even considered an option.
I think this is highly likely
and is the big reason Raef should NOT be cut, as some have suggested. He may be what is needed to make a big trade work early in the new year. If you cut him, you can’t trade is expiring contract. Based on what is available now, there is probably no point in keeping him. But until it is known what will be available before the trading deadline, it would be foolish to cut him. There may be someone out there just waiting to give a really good player away in exchange for young talent and cap relief, and we’ve got both.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
who's suggested that?
that would be just insane. Anyone suggesting we cut Raef has no clue. You don’t throw away your most valuable trade commodity. In then end, we may not use it, and instead let it expire. But you hold that card until you either use it or the deadline passes.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
But if we cut Raef!!!
We can have roster space to sign Steven Hill!!
STEVEN HILL!!
We need to cut Raef!!!
Yeah… whoever suggests cutting Raef either has a pee-hole for a head or just doesn’t know. Letting the contract run out is fine, but cutting him before the trade deadline and all that doesn’t make any sense on any level.
However… if it’s what we gotta do to keep the great Steven Hill… we might just have to bite the bullet.
Mortimer
I say cut Raef
He’s dead weight. Nobody wants to trade for a guy who can’t play.
This space for rent.
Why has Wally World still a job?
Or Antoine Walker? Both expiring contracts that will likely be traded this winter.
Yeah, well
I think it was timbo.
Perhaps when he says stuff like that, we should just quietly avert our eyes. It isn’t nice to watch a train wreck happening, rather morbid. Probably not very nice to talk about it, either.
I think he wanted Steven Hill.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Oh
TiH, too. Proves my point even more. Thanks, Tom.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Didn't the Clippers get Canby for a can of peanuts?
I’m not saying that the Blazers should cut Raef, even though if he was a race horse, he would have been shot. I’m just saying that if Hill, Randolph, or Jackson would have been worth a fart, that cutting Raef isn’t that big of a deal, if KP and Paul Allen are really waiting for the free agency season. Which Paul Allen covets like Voldemort covets Harry Potter’s demise.
This space for rent.
But they may not be waiting
The free agents next summer aren’t that great, most of them. So it may be a trade, and that could happen next summer or next year during the season before the trade deadline. But it could also happen this year before the trade deadline, if the right guy comes available — but it won’t if we don’t have RLEC.
I hope it doesn’t happen at all. I hope Martell becomes an all-star, Sergio becomes Steve Nash, Bayless becomes Billups only better, and Channing becomes Rasheed only better at 3 pointers and a lot more fun to be around. Then, KP can call up all the other GMs and say, “Hey, remember that cap space? Guess what? We aren’t even going to use it because our guys are too good, and it would be a waste of time. If you have an all-star you want to give us in a salary dump for a second round pick, we’ll probably do it just so your all-star can play in garbage time for us.”
But just in case, it might be a good idea in case New Orleans wants to blow up their team, to keep RLEC and IDEC around at least until the trade deadline. That way, we could trade the EC brothers for CP3, which will give us a little insurance in case Sergio only becomes as good as Oscar Robertson.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
I completly agree
We don’t want to settle. We have solid players at every position, especially if Rudy/Batum/Oden/Bayless live up to expectations. That is a good thing, but it is also a bad thing because it makes it more difficult to continue improving the team through trades or free agency. If we just settle for acquiring a pretty good player at whichever position we feel we are weakest, it will only be a marginal upgrade over what we have now. If we really want to make the team significantly better, what we need is a superstar player. Even if it costs us some good players that we don’t want to part with, trading for a top-level player would help us in the long run because it is easier to build around a couple star players than it is to build around a large group of good but not great players.
I've got to head off now
but we should come up with some scenarios if certain teams implode, who some of the possible players that become available might be.
We need to trade Roy, Oden, and Batum
Roy is hindering Rudy’s development, Oden is a bust and Nate is hindering Batum’s development. Batum needs to be traded for his own good. I’d do this trade in a NY minute.
This space for rent.
James was the most efficient player of the last season. 100% FT percentage. 100% FG percentage.
And Robinson was discussed last week as our future PG, right?. If we could keep Roy out of it, do it now.
From now on...
… instead of ASTP, I’m going to use TNT for dumb trade ideas. As in Tom’s kNick’s Trade.
hakkaa päälle !
You're just jealous
I came up with that trade like nothing and most people put lots of thought into their ridiculous trade proposals.
This space for rent.
You have to admit
that your proposal is till nowhere near the lets trade 1/2 our team for dirk half way up :)
if half of our team
is one starter, two bench players, and two expiring contracts
My mom babysat Paul Allen, no lie. Check the profile.
Seriously
yeah, right now rudy’s a bench player and so is pryzbilla outlaw and frye. Why don’t we just trade all 4 of those for dirk? its 4 bench players for a starting MVP player, right?
your sarcastic endeavors will get you nowhere
You’re just a homer who over-values Blazers. I wouldn’t trade Pryz or Frye, but the original trade proposal you -1’d, that included an outsourced Trout (because of Martell and Batum), a rookie prospect in Bayless that isn’t even in our rotation and may never be, LMA and the expiring contracts. We shore up our line-up and retain our arguably two best players, while adding a ridiculous outside threat. If you want a good rebuttal go cut and paste Mortimer’s response and pretend it’s your own. Dirk’s age at 30 is a downside.
My mom babysat Paul Allen, no lie. Check the profile.
have u watched a game
with aldridge and oden playing the entire way?
My mom babysat Paul Allen, no lie. Check the profile.
umm...
aldridge—the one you wanted to play has played the entire way through many games. You’re talking about trading our future for a 4 year window. I can’t believe I’m even arguing this with you. And you think I’m a homer? Heck no, its just that you’re just completely delusional. Read my past comments and then tell me I’m a homer.
And how exactly is dirk gonna help?
He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Do you watch the NBA games or do you just think stats pull over from one team to another? His style of play does not work with ours at all. I would much rather have Nash now-let alone 3 yrs ago-than Dirk. He would actually compliment our players, not detract.
dirk's style of play fits any team
what team wouldn’t want a 7 footer lights out from all over. He’s not strong enough to be The Man on any team, but like I said, with BRoy and Greg, lights out. The guy is 30, so I don’t know by what means you came to him having a “4 year window.” We are a jumpshooting team, Dirk is a jumpshooter.
My mom babysat Paul Allen, no lie. Check the profile.
DAVE
How about now we get a little bit of that spotlight on who we CAN get. Lets look around the league and do a 7-part piece. A weeklong look at who we can target.
6 days of division by division looks at who would fit for and make sense to the Blazers for what we can offer. who are our natural trading partners for this year (NY? Detroit maybe? etc).
Then to top it off, look the 7th day at FA prospects that we may target in this year and the next…people that are realistic and show potential (naturally)
So, it is.
Back to the basic reality that we have cap space and some nice pieces, but first need to see what we need, and like KP said yesterday, we need to get everyone healthy and let them play together awhile before we can figure out what we need in order to figure out what we should do downstream.
If you’re talking today, you probably want to improve the PG spot – perhaps more than any other.
In terms of the SF spot, if you can upgrade the PG and Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Frye, Pryz and Fernandez can take care of the #1 & #2 team SG, C and PF spots, then the SF spot is more likely going to be slated for a good role player. And maybe Martel is the guy. Or maybe Batum downstream is the guy.
I still suspect that we will end up cleaning up the roster sometime between now and next summer. Aside from Ike, Randolph and Raef, I’m willing to bet that Travis and any guard not named Roy or Fernandez could be involved in a deal to get us a solid upgrade at PG – if we could find such a player. Blake is a solid #2 PG but not so much a strong #1, and we’d like Bayless to step into that position at some time, or Sergio, but that’s likely a year or two downstream. If then.
Frye is sometimes talked about – but I wonder. In the first case he knows what he has here and that his role is inevitably to provide 14 mpg per game or so at PF and some occassional coverage as the #3 center. Yet, he repeatedly says he wants to stay here – which means he doesn’t seem to be unhappy. If fact, this may be all he ever expects to be in the NBA and he may have come to terms with it. If so, he’ll make his $3 m – $5 m a year like Jones or Blake and be happy with that. And, he could be right. I don’t see him being someone’s starting PF. But, maybe I’m wrong. So, his only trade value would be to do the same thing somewhere else that he does here. And, since it would cost us as much to replace him as to keep him, which we’d have to do, it doesn’t make much sense to trade him.
Here's the thing
how are minutes going to shake out in the long term if both Roy and Fernandez stay with the Blazers for several years? We keep talking about getting an upgrade at pg, but what’s the point if our two sg are arguably the top players on the team, and both of them can handle the ball? I just don’t see the wisdom of going after an elite pg. It seems like a much better decision to groom 1 of our pgs into a solid vet (a la D-fish) and play them for limited minutes, giving the rest of the minutes to Rudy/Roy at the 1/2 as long as Rudy is fast enough to keep up with 1’s. Something has to happen sooner rather than later regarding our rotation at the 1/2, just so that neither of our 2’s get upset with the minutes they get. I am not sure that Rudy would be upset about coming off the bench his entire career as long as he got 30+ minutes.
YES!!
My solution: start RUDY at the 1. Put Roy at the 2. Put Webster/Batum at the 3.
Its OK if you don’t stick to white/black unit, I promise the universe wont implode, really. Just leave Fernandez on a little longer and sub him out for Roy a little later and leave someone who can score with that unit. Solves everything.
well
the only problem I see starting Rudy with Roy is that both need the ball to produce to full potential. If you start Rudy at the 1 he will be in foul trouble and if point guards blow past Blake then Rudy might have no chance. If you switch Roy to 1 on defense, he will be tired after 1st quarter, and thats not a good idea. Both Rudy and Roy can set up players, and Rudy plays good with Sergio. When Roy is in the game Rudy stands around waiting to get a jump shot. I like Rudy cuz he can get easy buckets and set up teammates for easy baskets.
How valuable are the rights
to Freeland and Koponen? When do those rights expire?
Re: Blake “and should the right deal come along (like for a better point guard, for instance) I don’t think they’d have problems moving him.”. How often would a team trade a player for a same-position lesser player? Am I to assume you are just considering him a throw-in in this scenario?
"That game sucked, but I saw so much that makes me wanna see the next game. ... There's so much to be excited about. I'm so happy to be a Blazer fan." - hobobob 10/28/08
they expire
when we renounce them, or when they don’t play basketball on any level for a full year, and petition to reenter the draft.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
Greg Oden potential astronomical?
I might’ve said that on draft night, but to say that now is…wishful to say the least.
Blazer Fan
potential is potential regardless of wherther or not injuries keep a player from reaching it
And it is far from determined whether or not that will be the case
Rooo-D!
by that logic
does Penny still have potential? I think most would say that he HAD potential but never realized it. If there’s reason tobelieve that it is beyond likely for a player to reach a certain point, then by fiat its not potential anymore, right? :)
I think potential depreciates with age
Penny is too old to have potential. Greg is too young to have his wiped away by injuries. Darius is still young, and I think some people still see potential, but his attitude/work ethic have dimmed that luster. The injury, no matter if he plays again, also limit the potential – how many games could he play?
Darius has no potential
Potential is the possible peak that you can hit realistically. Darius, since he blew out his knee, has no potential anymore..besides being the #15 on a team. Oden has potential and I’m not saying he isn’t still up there. A mid-foot sprain isn’t exactly a chronic injury that leaves you a shell of your former self. But Grant Hill, Kenyon Martin, Shawn Livingston-they don’t have the potential they once did-regardless of age.
google.com define: potential
Currently unfulfilled capacity to improve, develop, and achieve impressive feats.
it all comes down to the CAPACITY to improve.
Chances of a Trade?
I think your assesments are well thought out and most often dead on. However I think there’s a problem or difficulty in attaching a Chances of a Trade and that is The unknown nature of N.B.A. trades. I listened to courtside last night and I agree with Rices assesment that outside of Brandon, LMA and Oden the rest of the team has no protection against being traded. Behind the scenes I’m sure there are players outside of our core that it would take bigger incentive for us to trade but in general it would all depend on what we were receiving or thought we were receiving. Therefore, outside of Oden, LMA and Brandon my assesment of Chances of a Trade for everyone else would be simply “Depends on Offer”.
I remember a team that once traded Calvin Natt, Lafayette Lever and Wayne Cooper for Kiki Vandeweghe and that is when I learned that you never really know what trade might or might not happen.
I like KP in that he strikes me as a GM willing to make bold agressive trades but also simultaneously on that doesn’t panic or give away the farm. It seems clear to me that the short term and probably long term The Blazers have a roster and asset base that almost begs to be tweaked. That’s going to result in a trade or two. Jaded experience has taught me that when and if the dominoes start falling I’ll probably be suprised by a few of the tumbles. Chances of a Trade? outside of Oden, Brandon and LMA…100% Chances of predicting who of the rest might be involved? Almost impossible.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
So me and my friends were speculating.....
Harris is too good to get him in a trade without giving up one of our big stars, but what about Raymond Felton as an option? he’s a young and improving guy and with Augustin on his back we may be able to get him in a trade easier then most players of his calliber. He’s not an all-star but we all ready have 3 (possibly 4 with rudy) and he is a solid young player with decent upside still left.
A great read.
Thank you.
Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.
http://www.myspace.com/y5k
Good assessment, Dave
However, I’d say that a trade involving Trout is more likely than one involving Channing.
(Sorry Ann)
I just don't see us trading for a "key" player.
We see a lot of comments about how Portland needs to fill either the PG or SF spot, with many of the posters suggesting that we need to get a guy that’s in the league’s top quartile at his position. All reason and logic departs at this point. Just look at the requirements:
1) Must be a quality character guy.
2) Must be in the top third or better at his position
3) Must be reasonably young
About the only thing we are not constrained by is lousy (or expensive) contract, as we have an owner that has demonstrated a willingness to spend and has deep enough pockets to follow through.
So, who fits the above description? Better yet, what GM is going to trade said player, without getting equal value in return? As always, Dave says it best – teams don’t trade production for potential, unless there are other, overriding issues involved. Those issues usually end up being either a veteran player who is overpaid for his current (and possibly declining) level of production or a guy with character questions.
About the only way I see Pritchard adding say a top PG or SF prospect (I don’t believe we need the latter, having Martell in the fold) is through a draft day deal. Meaning he will see someone in the draft he wants and figure out how to get him. And he may have already done that. Isn’t that what Bayless is? I’m not as high on him as many are, but that’s irrelevant. Bayless was supposedly drafted based on his abilities and room for future development. Because he’s 19, with only one year of college experience, and having to learn a position that’s perhaps the most difficult to master and not even his “natural” one, menas that we will have to be patient. I figure 4 years before we know if Bayless is the PG we are looking for.
hakkaa päälle !
I say package Travis w/ Sergio Rlec and Diagu
To get a point guard. Preferablly a vet that can sreve roughly the same role as JJJ33 did last year, character wise. Martell Play starting SF , spreads the floor w/ his 3 pt shooting. Batum shuts down on the D end during the fourth quarter and Brandon and Lma can take care of the 4th quarter heroics if need be.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
agreed
In my theoretical Blazer roster of 2009-10, we have
Center: Oden, Pryz
PF: LMA, some tough banger who can play the 5 in a pinch
SF: Martel, Batum
SG: Roy, Rudy
PG: New Guy, Sergio OR Bayless OR Blake
So, that means we need to get a starting point guard and a backup 4/5 who can defend, rebound, and add toughness. We can get the 2nd guy in the draft, but we should focus all available assets on getting a starting PG toward the trade deadline or over next summer.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
I like this
Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.
http://www.myspace.com/y5k
by Y5k on Nov 4, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
New guy?
By new guy, who do you think? I would think someone +- 3 yrs of Roy’s age would be good. I like Chalmers, but Miami wont trade him. I like Foye, but I don’t think Minny is giving up on him yet. I like westbrook & Conley…conley could be a maybe.
What if we just go for a 3? How about Corey Brewer? How does everyone feel about him?
Or even better, Trevor Ariza? Involves trading with the L*kers, but if we gave Travis, diogu, sergio-they’d have to consider it, right? Right??
3 vs. 1
A month ago, I was all for getting a 3. Now I’ve done a complete 180. I think Martel and Batum can give us exactly what we need at that spot in the medium to longer term.
the 1 is where we are getting killed. We have a solid rotation player in Blake, and two guys with potential behind him, albeit very different potential. Could they be enough in the long term? Maybe, but we just don’t know.
I say we are a LOT further toward knowing what we have with Martel/Batum than we are with Sergio/Bayless. I think we should move some potential to get a known quantity at the PG spot. I’m happy with any of Blake, Sergio, or Bayless as the backup PG/4th guard, so whichever one stays on to fill that role is fine with me. The other two can be moved to fill the starter need.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
180 here too
but man is it frustating that we’re ‘rushed’ into using or losing this cap space this year,
as far as the P.G. to keep last night watched the replay of Oden’s final college game…
with all the blocks/altered shots and his willingness to pass, pairing him with a quick guard willing to attack the rim before the defense can get fully set, further it helps if he can shoot in a half court set to open things up, those 3 things just scream Bayless, neither Blake/Sergio have more than one of those qualities…
i’d be willing to bring in a vet pg for blake/sergio, but bayless just gives us something those guys don’t, and he can defer to roy in the half court…
Personally
I see more potential in Sergio than Bayless. But I don’t “want” to give up anybody just yet, lets see it play out atleast until the trade deadline gets closer.
don't like Conley's fit
He can’t hit the spotup 3, and I think he needs the ball to much to be effective. Not sure about his defense, so I can’t comment on that.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
See I keep going back and forth
Thing is, Martell hasn’t shown us anything special yet. He has shown glimpses. Batum has potential-we saw that , but we need someone who is consistently GOOD. I think when you compare those players, you’re right. But here’s a question: What if we play Rudy+Roy? Why isn’t this talked about? Rudy is the same height as roy but like 30 lb thinner and a pretty damn quick player. He has proven himself to have poise and the ability to handle the ball if need be in the olympics. Why not start a double combo-guard Rudy/Roy back court? We can all agree Rudy has great court vision and makes things happen. He makes those around him better and just creates opportunities. Roy doesn’t have to slip to the 3, just have Rudy slip to the 1.
by nima on Nov 4, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
PS
I’m not a big fan of this black unit white unit garbage. Its not a reason to keep Rudy out of the starting line-up. What team in the NBA subs out all 5 players at the same time? None. You need to rotate players but keep some continuity and for sure keeping a black unit/white unit will stimy team chemistry. It throws a wrench into things if someone goes down with injury, etc. We need a 8-9 man rotation and not to worry about breaking up our 2nd unit. Thats the most absurd argument I’ve heard. Yes, even more absurd than bringing Oden off the bench.
by nima on Nov 4, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to see us try it
I’m just concerned will get torched by penetrating PGs worse than we already are.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
yikes,
thought we were supposed to be a defensive team
My mom babysat Paul Allen, no lie. Check the profile.
I don't think Fernandez
is the defensive liability ppl make him out to be. Besides, our PGs are already weak defenders and even if they get blown by, they have to lay it up over aldridge/oden. isn’t that tough enough?
I agree
Fernandez is smart and quick and willing to hustle on defense. He does tend to gamble, but I think he causes enough turnovers to make that gambling worthwhile. Fernandez has all the tools necessary to be an above average defender at the PG position. There may still be some PGs that he struggles to defend, but we will probably end up asking Batum to guard guys like Chris Paul and Tony Parker anyway.
The fact that Rudy is taller than a typical point guard is an advantage, rather than a liability. Players don’t always end up guarding the person who plays their position for the opposite team, and that extra height will be very useful when he has to guard larger players. Even against point guards, that extra height is still useful because it means he can sag off them a bit and still have a chance at blocking their shots. In a zone defense, the volume of space that that a tall player can defend is larger, especially if that player is quick like Fernandez. I don’t see any evidence that suggests a lineup with Rudy at the point would be worse defensively than a lineup with Blake/Sergio/Bayless at the point.
by trk on Nov 4, 2008 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
!!
+1 for your point about batum. i didn’t even think about putting him on the opposing PG! That opens up a slight mismatch at the 3 though. I don’t know how comfortable I’d be putting him or Roy on someone like Lamar Odom. Then again, you play the matchup. CP3 & the hornets? Swap it up. Lakers? Keep Fernandez on Fischer.
absolutely.
I just cant see us getting any farther w/ the jam at SF 3 mediocre point guards. I dont know what to think about Bayless.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
the problem
I looked at each team in the NBA. It just doesn’t seem like there is a PG out there that is attainable that fits what we would want.
Well, sure ...
but look what we’re offering:
Trout: Mr. Hot and Cold, who is great, then frustrating, then totally super, then bothersome.
Sergio: Low production
RLEC: stack of papers
Diagu: practice punching bag.
Who comes in return?
Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.
http://www.myspace.com/y5k
by Y5k on Nov 4, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
throw in to the mix
Channing, Bayless, and draft picks.
I think it’s time to consolidate our assets, and trade away some future potential for some known commodities. If any of those guys blow up later, but we got back our championship caliber point guard for them, I’m ok with that.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
thats why i wanted
josh smith this summer. We have too many players who have ‘potential’ but wont get minutes on our team to develop. I woulda gladly given up webster, outlaw, blake and a 1st rounder to get smith.
I think that
the Outlaw for Mike MIller deal is looking better all the time. We should have jumped all over that when we had the chance.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
the thing about draft picks is
it might be better for us to hold on to our draft picks, pull a spurs and draft all the batums in the world & stash them in europe to infuse our team with talent. otherwise trade the picks for picks in later years..I figure they’ll come in handy in 3-4 yrs.
thing about trading outlaw is
you’re going against brandon’s wishes and trading his best friend. seems risky..not that I think he would pull a stevie franchise
We traded Oden's best friend over the summer
I’d like to think Roy understands that basketball is a business and if trading your best friend makes your team better then you’re going to be OK with it.
i think there's a dif between
mcrob and outlaw. Didn’t Roy plead not to trade Outlaw? And I’m talking about a team-friend. someone who connects the dots on the roster and he relates to. I’m not saying he shouldn’t go, but that’s one of those things that plays into chemistry. I mean look at Franchise after Cuttino was dealt!
OK, I see what you are saying, but
last season it seems like the majority said Jarrett Jack was their best “team friend”. He obviously fit in as far as chemistry, but he had to go for other reasons. I’m all for chemistry and I think it does make a difference on a team – and I’m not necessarily saying “trade Travis” – but in his case I don’t think the chemistry should play a part in the decision. Frankly I was concerned about the Jack trade just because the others liked him so much, but they seem to have gotten over it…
Dave you didnt gauge Nate's trade value
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
oh snap!
sophia needs to start a hate on nate post.
or a dump outlaw blog.
It’s hard to say w/ a guy like outlaw if it’s his “low BBIQ” or just he needs to be coached on every play. Maybe nate likes coaching every play?! Blame nate or travis? or KP? Paul Allen? Bill Walton? How far back can we blame? Travis is a serious weapon in that if told what to do, usually does it. He just needs guidance that guys like Rudy that can improvise a lot more don’t need. I think Rudy leading the second unit will help either Batum or Travis do well while they are still blazers.
It's low BBIQ
and some other things…does your mommy still tell you when to take a shower and make sure you wash behind your ears? It’s time to grow up I’d say…..I’m sure Nate could use his time more wisely concentrating on the whole team and not trying to single out Travis….you either get it or you don’t……and it sure is not because, the Blazers and Nate, have not given him the chance
by 67 on Nov 4, 2008 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
:-)
“destroy capitalism and become lesbians” is my favorite part. Strikes as especially hipocritcal.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
everything pat robertson says
is material for the daily show. which is why i hope he lives a long life
Travis Outlaw
Travis is a gifted athlete, not a gifted basketball player. IMO he will never be highly efficient or skilled or consistently reliable . I believe his upside is limited and If an attractive offer comes available, the Blazers would be wise to strongly consider it.
Yes
It is becoming more and more apparent that Outlaw is what he is…..Gifted athletically as you say, but it takes an abrupt stop after that….the NBA has plenty of these type of players (role players) and there is nothing wrong with that, but he is not that reliable even in his most effective mode (athletic jump shooter)
His low BBIQ will never get him to the next level and continuing down the road, with potential in mind, is more a dream, than reality…..when the Blazers field a team that can compete with LA, my bet is; Outlaw will not be on it….But I think Batum will
by 67 on Nov 4, 2008 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
his BBIQ is the biggest problem
we all agree with that. but I think Portland needs to develop our developmental team to be on par with the spurs and l*kers. both of those teams can turn a player’s mentality up a notch and gleen the most out of limited talents. Look at Rick F*x, Fischer, Horry, Finley, Barry, Bowen, etc. Even look at Turiaf and the next tier of players. They just have a way to get the most out of talent. That’s why I have no doubt that Outlaw would thrive on a team like LA. I don’t think we’d ever trade him there, but if we did, I’d be happy to give up more and get Trevor Ariza. He was sick against us, he’s a tall SF and he gots game apparently.
Ariza
Is a good defender. He isn’t a good shooter and can’t really create for himself. He is good enough of offense that opponents can’t ignore him completely, but he is mostly useful for his defense.
by trk on Nov 4, 2008 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
Ariza is also
Great at filling the passing lanes and getting steals. In the pre-season GM poll, many GMs said Ariza was the best at that skill actually.
He’s very athletic.
I think Batum is better at a much younger age.
Mortimer
People undersestimate Frye I think
He’s a big who is not injury prone, has good hands, a nice shot and can play the 4 or 5 and be a reasonably effective rebounder. He’s young and still has some growth ahead of him. I’d be really surprised if he goes anywhere unless a complete no brainer falls into Priothcard’s lap.
I love Frye
but he doesn’t look too effective or mentally tough on the court. He loves Portland and has sufficient skill / the right team first mentality to play here, but he isn’t an integral part of our team. In fact, I think if we did trade him, he’d pull a stackhouse/mcdyess/whoever the spurs player was who did it and resign with his old team after being bought out.
I'd like him to get an extension though
just to keep him from affecting our cap. he could be had for cheap right now and locking him up would save cap space next summer if we keep him, or make him an attractive long term piece to another team if we want to trade him. We should sign him to a 3 yr extension with a team option on the 4th year, or player option if we can negotiate down the price.
I like the analysis
It is very logical and to the point…. It is probable the Blazers will make a trade at some point, but as your post suggests, it’s too early to jump at a trade, unless you have given up on a player or a better fit for the team is considered…
I’m sure they would trade some players that they feel have low value to the team, but they are also low value to other teams…..So looking at Fry and Outlaw at the best bait for trade value is the most logical….It’s not likely that trading for a valued point guard or a 3 is reachable without giving up some good players that you expect to be part of our future….
You rarely see early season trades, but the surprise trade of Billups and Iverson is proof that anything can happen……A dumb trade by Detroit IMO, but I guess we will see…
agreed.
carmello is gonna be great this year because of the trade and denver definitely improves but iverson has never been a guy i’d want on my team. He’s a great talent but he’s not the type of guy who makes people around him better. Billups makes people around him better. Nash does, CP3 & Deron do too. Iverson doesn’t.
one guy without a sense of timing....
is all it takes to kill a good rhythm on offense. Blake and Travis are the worst offenders. and so first candidates for trade IMO.
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