Lost Kids: Where can we find Oden and Aldridge? The "Big 3" Doesn't Exist
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 5:24 AM PST
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PrintDo the Blazers have a team psychologist?
If they do, they ought to double their salaries right now.
In the 3 years Aldridge has been in the league, I can't remember a stretch of games like he's currently played. Let's be honest: this guy doesn't look too good right now. He is streaky at best, and this isn't even a fair handshake. Right now, he stinks. He's had countless great games in the NBA in the past, but this season isn't going well for him at all. He's had a few nice moments this year, but a growing dark cloud overshadows those moments. There's not too much separating him and Channing Frye at the moment, and that's scary. Something's gotta change for him. Maybe new shoes, or a new car, or perhaps a new girlfriend? Somebody take the kid shopping and buy him some candy. Only a psychologist could tell him his cure - or, perhaps one of those palm readers at Portland's Saturday Market.. This is a year for Aldridge to make "leaps" if he's going to be anything close to "All-Star" status. Isn't simply seeing his name on the All-Star ballot a disappointment right now? How could somebody actually vote for him based on his play?
Oden is another child right now. His attitude stinks. I want to like this guy a lot, but right now his pissy attitude blocks his own dunks in my opiniion. He acts like a 10 year old: happy some days, sad others. It appears he lacks determination. I'd think he'd be thrilled to be playing after all the rehab. Or perhaps, he also lacked determination in his rehab? Shouldn't the same work ethic we heard from his rehab carry over to his play during the game? Right now, Pryzbilla is a 180-degree opposite of Oden.
McMillan may be a restless parent right now. Should I let the kids play together or not? Should they eat this food or not? Should I let them stay up late or not? McMillan needs to stop rewarding last-names and start rewarding smart play.
If this were a British Parliament right now, I’d motion to bring both Oden and Aldridge off the bench. These kids are lost. Someone needs to find them.
Also, the phrase Big Three shouldn't be used right now. Let the best players on the team decide who the Big Three are. Right now, the Big Three are Pryzbilla, Roy and either Fernandez or Outlaw... we actually don't have a Big Three.
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OK, your are Charley Partanna and this is a for Pryzi´s honor killer post ;-)
Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16
Yes, I'm hoping to find something unexpected...
This gets at the heart of this post – realistic expectations. I do think there can be some positive psychological tactics if Oden and Aldridge are brought off the bench.
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 5:52 AM PST up reply actions
Greg's attitude
It is weird. He is really looking like he isn’t having fun out there. It also seems like he’s distant from the team, like he’s not really friends with everyone. It’s easy for us to sit here and judge though, we really don’t know the situation and what’s going on. I can only hope he makes it through the season without an injury, and spends some time rediscovering his love for the game. That brings up another point. What if, just what if, Greg doesn’t like to play basketball? I mean, if you could just sorta get by by being big and athletic, and pull in millions of dollars doing it, you would. I’ve often thought he just doesn’t like to play. But then, that’s kind of discounted by how we’re always hearing how hard he’s working to improve. You wouldn’t do that if you didn’t love the game. I think he’s just going through discovering himself as a man and as a player, and he’s just having a hard time adjusting to everything. Let’s hope he get’s better, we all know how bad this team needs him to be a dominant center.
myspace.com/marktwainindians
by mark twain on Nov 25, 2008 6:06 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Don't worry about that
Based on what people within the Ohio State program have said, the “Oden doesn’t like to play ball” thing is a complete myth. Ask yourself this. If you didn’t like basketball, and you were going to be the number one overall pick in the NBA draft whatever you did, would you work tirelessly to learn how to shoot free throws with your LEFT HAND so that you could come back and play before you could even bend your wrist?
By all accounts, nobody could get the kid out of the gym. He was in there practicing an hour before practice started and an hour after it ended. And nobody ever had to ask.
Look, Greg’s not having fun out there every night. He doesn’t like the lights, camera, action of the NBA. He doesn’t like the huge expectations – particularly when he’s trying to come back from microfracture and has said he’s about 80% athletically. A part of him probably wishes he stayed in school. But his love for the game isn’t the problem.
Basically, he wants really badly to live up to everyone’s huge expectations, and he’s not really in good enough shape to perform up to his own standards right now. And it’s frustrating.
The best thing you can do in rooting for Oden is this – treat whatever he does well over the next few months as a BONUS. The Blazers have the luxury of competing right now with a really solid team without NEEDING Oden to be young Shaq. Give him time. This time next year, if he’s looking lost out there, then start judging him.
Right now, it’s the worst thing you could do.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Nov 25, 2008 6:17 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
we have to judge him inherently... there's no such thing as purely suspending judgment... the dude can
have a good attitude and play poorly… we wouldn’t be as concerned if this was the case
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 7:57 AM PST up reply actions
+1
absolutely right. people would be all over him if he was goofing off and not playing well. It seems like hotstuff forgot about how well Oden played in a three game stretch last week! The Kings are a bad matchup for him since all their big men step out and shoot long jumpers regularly, and the Suns have Shaq, who while clearly past his prime, has a lot more experience (and bulk) than Greg. Give the kid some time to get adjusted!
"Smile! You're on a poster!!" - Mike Rice
nope - I didn't forget about those games - that's part of the 10 year old i'm trying to describe-
happy some days, sad others…. no mental consistency
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
He actually does seem a bit bipolar..........
One thing that needs to happen fast is that Nate needs to stop trying to jam him into the starting role, which was WRONG in the first game of the year and was WRONG AGAIN last night.
He’s a rookie. Bring him off the bench. If he finds the groove in a given game, finish with him, if not, there is always Pryz.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
Guess what - as the father of a 10 year old boy - they don't grow up overnight
and yes, there will be bad days, good days, and if we are really lucky we get to be there when they have an awesome day. There is no way in heck that he will live up all that he can be during this season. All we are going to get is occasional peeks at the future GO. Hopefully those peeks will become more frequent as the season progresses.
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
My opinion
Greg Oden is demonstrating all of the attributes of some one with a major depressive episode. It’s not that he is disinterested in the game or the team; instead, he is preoccupied with the fact that he is not playing as well as he thinks he should. He feels like he is letting the organization down and is worried that he will not be able to help the team in all of the ways he and the city hoped that he could.
And another thing
I just want to mention that hotstuff needs counselling, too. He’s had a few nice moments, but there’s a growing dark cloud overshadowing them. Something’s gotta change for him.
He’s another child right now. His attitude stinks. I want to like this guy a lot. He acts like a 10 year old.
…
Oh, by the way, these guys are real people really trying hard to be good at what they do. Perhaps we should be careful about bashing their attitudes and mental state based on a few perceptions. It isn’t like they are, oh, throwing the N word at the coach, or, say, getting themselves T’d up all the time, or, maybe, running around with drugs and guns, or perhaps, refusing to come off the bench when the coach asks them to. Then, you might have evidence to say they’ve got a bad attitude.
These guys have worked hard, they are trying hard now, and it will come around for them. If you pour yourself into something for months and months, and it doesn’t go real well at first, you’re not going to be feeling real happy, either.
Just saying.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Nov 25, 2008 6:13 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
You make me laugh =)
My plea is for a change in attitude. Just b/c things aren’t going well, doesn’t mean you need a bad attitude. In my opinion, negative attitudes easily spoil positive attributes of a team
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 6:36 AM PST up reply actions
classy reply hotstuff
and to tell the truth, the thoughts you express in your fanpost are things that need to be said. you are absolutely correct about LMA and Oden.
I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point. Either that or a very high draft pick so the Blazers can land Rubio next year.
The attitude problems exhibited by LMA and Oden are indications of the risk taken when a GM goes after “high character” guys. You get high character but not enough fire. Maybe we should prefer a guy like Artest if the alternative is a guy like Oden. “high character” accompanied by a killer instinct might be rare.
Heck, I honestly don’t know, and you can quote me on that. I’m just a fan.
We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.
Put that in your sig
I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point.
That way, we can remind you about it later this season, and all have a good laugh together.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
You got it buddy
And there is nothing b’ball related that I would enjoy more than having my new sig eventually be a source of amusement for the BE community.
"I would be in favor of trading LMA and Oden for a reliable starting PF at this point."
MT Suit, 11/25/08
That's brilliant!
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
You might want to add "young reliable starting PF"
You – and KP – would look really smart if we acquire Chris Bosh in some package built around LMA. Not so much if we end up with somebody who is 30+
"For such a dumb kid, you've got a pretty smart mouth."
It is my tragic duty to report that Chris Bosh is not going anywhere... Trust me, that hurts me more than it hurts you!
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
I agree. Amare might move in 2010 when the Suns implode, but even that is not sure.
And thus there are not that many PFs out there who I would like to trade LMA for. Not even Dirk, KG or Marion because they are all at least 7 years older. And I just don’t want Boozer on my team.
"For such a dumb kid, you've got a pretty smart mouth."
It is my tragic duty
to remind you that MT Suit wants to offer both LMA and Oden for a reliable PF, and that we could get any PF in the league for those two. In a heartbeat.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Partly true
Actually, all true. Negative attitudes do spoil positive attributes.
But here’s the question, what is a negative attitude? LMA is going through a bad spell right now, but where’s the evidence of a negative attitude? Roy had a bad spell early last year, too. I see no evidence of a negative attitude, what I see is a guy whose shot isn’t dropping.
Oden? You have so little evidence to say he lacks determination. He’s struggling a little bit. He can’t do the things he used to do. That’s really hard to come to terms with. He’s not happy some days? That translates to lack of determination? On what basis? The expression on his face at one game?
Have you been to any of his practices and workouts to find out how hard he is working? Perhaps that would be an important data point in trying to determine if he lacks determination.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
It's just my opinion, you may not agree with it, however I find
it likewise difficult to say this guy does have determination after watching his first 10 games. He just seems lackluster
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Coming back from a major injury
is really hard, and has both physical and emotional effects. I commented on this down below.
I agree that he seems lackluster, but in the circumstances, it’s a mistake to say that means he lacks determination. It will come.
The dude spent countless hours lifting weights, he’s brought his weight down, that’s all evidence of determination.
If he looks like this in 2-3 months, then maybe you’ll have a point. Too early to say right now.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
jscot is right ... but then he could have told us that
Maybe, just maybe, if one were a clinical psychologist, one might be able to deduce things like motivation and attitude based on watching video of an individual. My bet is they’d be a poor example of their profession. A doctor would not make such an observation without first spending time with a patient and conducting multiple interviews and tests.
Fortunately, BE has many fans that are so good that they don’t have to waste time doing that. They just naturally can tell what the problem is with Aldridge and Oden from seeing them on TV. I sit in awe and the shear genius exhibited here.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Nov 25, 2008 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I know you're using hyperpole
But it doesn’t take much beyond standard knowledge of human interaction to read the signs. No, people can’t make vast or detailed diagnoses of team spirit or specific individual moods, but we can make inferences based on what we see.
We're all seeing the same things...
…………………… Overreacting, perhaps. But seeing the same things and drawing the same inferences.
"Now with a non-provocative footer!"
A lot of fans have noticed that Greg doesn't smile a lot.
And on occassion some fans have thought he’s looked distracted. And apparently this last game he didn’t show much energy.
Yep, that pretty much is confirmation the guy lacks passion, has a bad attitude and certainly will never be an all-star, let alone all world as predicted.
At one time a lot of people thought eugenics was a real science and that they could draw accurate inferences about people based on their appearence. I think we all know how that turned out.
As for Aldridge, I’m not even going to try to fathom how his laughing after a missed shot has him being compared to Rasheed Wallace only without the fire.
hakkaa päälle !
Lamarcus
Unlike most of you, I didn’t see most of Lamarcus’s great games last year. But what I’m wondering is this – when he’s playing well, does it look like he cares more?
With Oden, I agree with what everyone has said, he looks like he’s not having fun out there. When he got fouled and missed that dunk last night, he looked emotionally traumatized. He just wants so badly to live up to expectations.
With Lamarcus it’s different. He looks like he couldn’t care less. He tossed up an air ball in crunch time last night and seemed to be almost laughing about it, and not in an incredulous “I can’t believe that happened” kind of way – in a “that was funny” kind of way.
My question for everyone is this – when LMA was playing well last year, did it look like he gave a crap? My long term concern is not that he won’t snap out of the funk that his game’s in right now, but that he doesn’t have the “it” thing that makes guys want to compete. You know, the thing Roy so obviously DOES have.
Not that everyone has to pound their chest and scream at the ceiling – guys get fired up different ways – but it’s a problem when they don’t get fired up at all. And right now, Lamarcus just isn’t.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
i have to be honest
If i threw up a really bad shot, i’d probably laugh at it too. It’s how I deal with my stress for the most part. I’ll curse and kick or I’ll laugh. A night of bad shooting, I’d laugh because… what else can you do? You keep trying. I actually would get my groove back faster if I was laughing about it than if I was getting ticked at myself.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
Word
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Nov 25, 2008 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
I don't see what you see
LaMarcus is shooting poorly. He is contributing by rebounding, blocking shots, making steals, and passing the ball. I really have no idea what you are talking about that he doesn’t care. He is not as up and down as some players, but he has not seemed at all like he is not trying or doesn’t care. I don’t see it.
He will not shoot this poorly the entire season. Book it!
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
In the bulls game last wednesday, at three different points, while the game was taking place
on the opposite side of the court from the blazers bench, his eyes were staring into space and he looked completely disinterested in the game. Yes, this is not specifically “attitude”, but it is body language that indicates something is not right.
Also, at the Bulls game, and I noticed this too against the Suns and last night against the Kings, he was sometimes the last guy off the bench during timeouts. He just seems really disinterested and not mentally in it.
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 6:41 AM PST up reply actions
that's what we get for drafting a giant that wanted to be a dentist...you'd think if he was going to play ball
for the rest of his life, that he’d want to be a basketball player, not a dentist :0 could you imagine him trying to examine your teeth with them huge fingers?
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
I bet he'd be a great dentist
A very calming and reassuring presence in the ol’ tooth pain chamber.
We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.
Giant that wanted to be a dentist
Isn’t that part of the Rudolph plot? Or am I mixing things up?
—Dave
It was an ELF
But and elf can’t be a dentist, ELVES MAKE TOYS!
Haven't you seen the Aflac Christmas commercial?
The blonde elf wanted to be a dentist; Oden is the Abomidable Snowman
Nate is “Donder” he’s in charge of the Reindeer games (note the whistle around his neck)
Hey “There’s ALWAYS Tomorrow” for dreams to come true
I still don't see it
Being “completely disinterested” in the game is not indicative of a p-wordy attitude.
Secondly, I have to assume you have a p-wordy attitude, because you were completely disinterested in the game. it sounds like you watched the bench instead of the game.
The Lost Boys of the Rose City
is that the title of J. Quick’s upcoming book on the PTB?
Maybe one of our lost boys will get to carry the flag at the opening ceremony of the Olympics, like in Bejing.
Oden's underwhelming that's for sure...BUT
It’s still early. I don’t like his game (or his attitude) particularly, but it’s still too early to call him a bust.
I agree with those who point out that LMA also seems to lack the passion. The burning desire to win that you see on Roy’s and Joel’s face every game.
The Big Three was a farce from day 1.
Blazer Fan
I don't think we need to go a far as labelling anyone a bust yet, that's beyond the scope of the
original post – like you say, a lack of passion and urgency is seen on these 2 guys, more so than the others
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 7:53 AM PST up reply actions
Where the hell is Shavlik when you need him
I think it is a good thing to call it as we see it.
LaMarcus, well….kinda sucks right now. I would almost take about any other starting PF and think it was an improvement. Aldridge an all-star??? NO.
Oden?…nope.
LaMarcus has showed me nothing to make me think he is even close to an all-star. I agree that there is no “Big 3”. Just Big Roy.
Gosh, the more games The Blazers win, the more I start to believe Brandon is the MVP of the league.
I wasn’t sure until lastnight, but Joel should be starting. Right now, he is a much better player.
-Shad
"If a doctor ever gives me six months to live, I want it in basketball time." - Marc Acito
Joel should definitely start
I don’t know what Nate was thinking starting Oden. oden is clearly not ready mentally or physically. I could see the reason if he was ready mentally, but he’s not.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
Today is a great day to be alive and be named Gavin Dawson and/or Colin Cowherd
Those guys put their money where their mouth is, and right now we are losing the bet and they are sitting with a big stack of chips.
the implied gentleman's bet regarding whether Oden was a bust or not
Gavin and Colin made hints that Oden wasn’t as good as we said he was.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 25, 2008 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree completely
I think they’re losing that bet. Very, very few rookies look like potential saviors every single night. If any.
Oden had a rough game, but he didn’t get the ball a ton, either. When he was fed the ball repeatedly against GS, he put up 22-10. He’s still in the top seven or so among NBA centers in PER.
Cowherd’s statements that Oden will never be a great offensive players is asinine. Not in spite of what we’ve seen so far – ESPECIALLY because of what we’ve seen so far.
Oden’s not in shape yet. He’s still adjusting. And he’s already had a few pretty dominant games.
I’m happy with where he is.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Nov 25, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
but to Gavin's point... KP, Mike Rice and others who saw him practice this summer
all raved about how good he was.
I wasn’t expecting 20 and 10 every night, but I was expecting better than what he has shown over the 8 games or so.
He’s been a disappointment based on the the expectations that were created by team employees. Basically he’s looked pretty bad in several games, and even nights when he looked good for 20 minutes, he had a lot of fouls and I questioned his ability to play a full game (35-40 minutes) without fouling out.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 25, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
As I mentioned a while ago. Greg was about where I expected him before that hype. When I heard that hype my expectations were raised as I was expecting something major out of the gate. They’re now back to earth again.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
I think the issue goes further than Aldridge and Oden
Greg has a bad attitude instead of that burning fire to win. What happened to the man that gets ticked when a player dunks on him and comes back ten times as hard? The NBA may be tougher than he thought, but so what? Greg, do you want to win, or don’t you? Quit being a whiny little girl and get OUT there. You mess up? So freaking what. If you’re going to mess up, mess HARD because you’re holding nothing back. I’ll take that any day of the week. Screw up, it’s okay dude. Just quit this freaking moping. Man, I’ve played against people I’ve SUCKED against. Do I mope about it? Heck no. I challenge them immediatly again because they’re BETTER than me and I will freaking play them until i can grind them into dust every time. “oh, you spin left? Oh, you’re mixing it up now? I see what you’re doing, I can do a little of that… not only that I’m figuring out how to stop you.” I had a friend do the same thing against me at chess. Two years later he won a game. You don’t whine, you don’t quit, you keep trying, and eventually you win and win large. (except against me and chess)
Aldridge… dude… not sure what’s going on there, but I am positive you’ll get it. You’re mucking up my fantasy league though so please get it sooner rather than later. My suggestion to you is quit going out there by yourself, but bring some of the other players out to practice sets instead of just shooting. I don’t know why, but I think this will help you. Maybe to help point out that you’re also not an island.
Team. Where is the team? What’s up with the niches? Why is Joel the only one greeting Greg back to the bench? Why do I feel Sergio and Rudy have a thing but not Roy and Rudy? Why do I feel like Oden and Aldridge aren’t chatting or that Blake and Aldridge aren’t chatting? Why do I feel that Batum is in a world by himself out there?
Maybe these guys are bonding a little but I have to be honest, I don’t see this group of individuals talking to each other as a team yet. I see Roy being an incredible player, but I don’t see him leading this team yet. He hasn’t rounded up his troops he’s just rushing off to battle and assuming they’ll follow.
We have a decent record. That’s nice. We got a win, that’s cool. The thing is, I liked last years team better. They didn’t irk me as much as this years team is doing. I know we’ve mucked up the line-ups thanks to injuries and rookies, but if people were communicating, talking, keeping each other involved, I don’t think it would be as big of a deal as it is now.
We need the team guys. Once you get the team, all the other things sort themselves out.
This is how it feels to me. This is what I see so far. I see the team missing. I see the “hey big guy, snap out of it man… we have a game to win” calling each other out missing. I see the “awe man, another off night, hey… don’t worry. You’ll get it back and we have your back. Keep plugging and we’ll pull this thing out” missing.
We have a nice record, but I’m not satisfied. I haven’t seen what I was hoping for yet and I feel we’ve lucked out that other teams have just been worse. I’m not satisfied because I’m not seeing the team out there. It’s no longer 100% individuals (that’s good), but there are niches. I want the frigging team.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Nov 25, 2008 8:36 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
+1,000,000
you pretty much summed up how I feel perfectly. Every point you made I agree with, and I’m actually worried about this team right now for some crazy reason. I want to see more camaraderie, I feel we’re not seeing it at all and I wonder why. Do they not like each other? I think Nate should nip this in the bud right away, have a “team building” event, something, anything to light a fire or two.
myspace.com/marktwainindians
Getting Along
What makes you think this team doesn’t get along? there has been no evidence (yet anyway) to suggest this. There are are a bunch of new guys integrated into this team, and I think it will take a while for the to gel. In the meantime they are 9-6 playing against teh toughest schedule in the NBA. I am not worried one bit about this team.
This is Jack burton from the PorkChop Express and I'm talkin to whoever's out there.....
Getting along
and playing as a team are two different things.
Teammates hold each other accountable. People who get along are afraid to rock the boat at times.
Team mates can critique each other because they only have one goal and they all just want to get there as a team. People who get along may not.
Team is the coming together of people for one goal, one purpose, one destination and making sure your entire team arrives there and no one is left behind.
Getting along can be 16 different directions.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
Awesome analysis ratbastird!
I think what you wrote in the long post above fits perfectly with what I am seeing in the on court behaviour of this team right now. I am sure that for the most part they all like each other, but they are playing like a group of individuals all trying to fill their roles the best they can. But hat is not the same thing as a TEAM of people helping each other to be better. True team members build each other up and work together toward a common set of goals, and do what is good for the team, not what is good for them self.
Joel Przybilla is the best example of this kind of behaviour on this team right now. When asked to come off the bench so that Oden can start he does it with out even the slightest hint of thinking about whether Greg has earned it or not. His attitude is “If that is what Nate wants, well that OK by me.” Team First! I really think that Blazer management needs to pay attention to building camaraderie and teamwork. Teaching the fundamentals of basketball is great, but it should include the fundamentals of teamwork.
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
by LaMarvelous on Nov 25, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
We didn't start playing like a team last year until we had a 5-14 record.
The season is still early, we’re only 15 games in, and these guys are still trying to figure each other out. It might take a bad loss (or hopefully a 91-90 win at home against a team that should have been pulverized) to awaken that same mindset, it might take another spirited practice with tempers running high to draw out some fire.
I wonder how much of an impact Coach Lucas’ absence is having on LMA and Oden. He was the one teaching them the Big Man post game… and he’s been gone for 5 weeks or so. Get well, Coach!
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 25, 2008 9:21 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Lucas
I think Lucas’ absence is an understated part of why Oden hasn’t started strongly. He’s 20 and a rookie, with one season of anything resembling top level basketball under his belt. He’s got a lot to learn about being a big man in the NBA, and the best teacher we have on staff is out. That’s a major loss.
I recognize that
I’m just surprised this team couldn’t carry over last years progress into this year. it feels like we’re starting from scratch and I think the foundation should have already been set even with new guys coming in.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
This is a good point...
It does seem that we’re starting from scratch again and trying to find ourselves
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
4 rookies...
3 foreigners…
2 centers…
and a partridge in a pear tree.
Seriously, it’s practically a whole new team. Throw in that Marty is still out, we let JJones walk after the season ended, we traded JJack in the summer… this IS a new team. This is not last years team.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 25, 2008 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
the funny thing is that they
promoted last year as a rebuilding year… it’ll be interesting how this year is cast
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Again, i recognize this
However…
these guys were all there last year.
Blake
Roy
Aldridge
Outlaw
Sergio
Frye
Pryz
These guys were there and are switching being out.
Webster
Oden
That’s a large number of people. Plays on the floor are one thing, but the culture of the team and the team communication are another. The new guys should be adapting to something already set. Instead it doesn’t feel like there’s something already set. My stance is that I expected there to be.
I thought the foundation of that communication would be there more and maybe Webster being out has a larger than I expected effect on this. Maybe it’s Jones and Jones had a big behind the scene hand it getting Roy to initiate some of the team building. I don’t know. I just notice it lacking right now.
That said, I believe and hope they’ll find that team work and communication again.
My expectations have been higher for them this year. The win total is better than I was hoping for, but how we’re snagging some of those wins and how were functioning are a little worse.
Again, that means when things click… look out!
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Nov 25, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rat, your post reminded me of the scene from Airplane.
When the little kid is talking to Kareem and says how his Dad thinks he’s lazy and doesn’t get back on defense.
Do you recall his response?
hakkaa päälle !
Where he grabs the kid by the collar?
stares him down and tells him he has no idea what its like?
It’s classic…
But thats where the “big man”/reality coach needs to step in and toughen this bunch up … no kidding…NBA is NOT a finesse game…its a power game…gotta grab the edge…the more viscious team generally wins…this isn’t cricket in 1889 …
wait till the intensity turns UP later in the season…these guys will break off your arm and beat you with it to get an edge…
they need a real drill seargent (pardon the spelling, never made it to West Point).
True
but i know what teams are like. What’s on that floor isn’t one yet.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
you are right about that
they are a bunch of kids who have never been tested by fire….
is there anyone in the group with any “street” experience? Or were these all kids with high talent, ID’ed by age 12 and moved from one elite program to another till they ended up here?
They will be pushed aside until they push back…they should all watch Blake…that in your face, type of “push me down harder next-time, you DB” attitude goes a long way…Rudy has it…GO has it in spurts…Roy kinda has it…LMA and Channing need it …Pryz is beginning to express himself better..
It's WAY to early for any of this convo
Amare was so upset with his play after coming back from micro that he considered retiring. He went into quite a funk. Keep in mind Amare is as firy and determined an alpha dog as there ever was and he already was an established star.
Greg has to battle with meeting his own expectations as well as those of others. On top of this he has to learn the game. So many different things weighing on him. As his game and body improve so will his attitude.
As far as fire goes. That is not who he is. We knew that when we drafted him. The biggest question about him before he was drafted was about his “motor”. Only time will tell on that one.
I'm a little confused by your tactics
by oderiferous emanations 74 on Nov 25, 2008 8:37 AM PST reply actions
Maybe some people don't realize
what a serious injury or illness does to a person. Everything gets harder. You can’t do the things you used to do. You’ve played basketball all your life, and it’s been fun, and you’ve been able to pretty much do what you wanted. You got to college, and players were bigger and faster there, but you still could own them, even with an injured wrist.
Then, you get to the pros, and they are bigger and faster still, but that’s not your problem. Your problem is that you can’t run as fast as you did, you can’t jump like you did, nothing works. You are winded after three minutes on the court. You can’t do anything you used to do. Nothing.
The game isn’t fun, it is hard work — and you can’t do anything about it. They tell you it will take some time, and you’ll get back to where you were — but you aren’t there. You used to run and jump effortlessly, and now every jump, every run down the court, is a huge effort.
They joke that you look 20 years older than you are, but you actually feel 20 years older. And you work really hard to try to get that conditioning back sooner, but it just isn’t happening.
And then people look at you and wonder why you aren’t having fun. Don’t they know how hard you are working, and that it isn’t getting any easier?
Both his conditioning and his “attitude” will come around. In 2-3 months, you’ll see a different guy. But it won’t help anything if people are down on him, that just makes it worse.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Nov 25, 2008 9:28 AM PST reply actions 8 recs
You could be right.
I know you’re right that physically Oden will be what we expect. My concern about the attitude is that you practice what you preach and you see true character when they’re up against the wall. Oden is against the wall right now and his composure isn’t what I’d like to see.
He’s young… i get it… but you are what you practice and Greg’s practicing that mope pretty hard right about now. I don’t care about his mistakes. Physically he’s actually he’s about what I expected now. Started out rougher than I thought but he’s making nice progress and is now where I hoped. I care about his attitude. Attitudes are catching.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
People come out of that mope
when they begin to be able to do again some of the things they used to do.
Been there, done that. Until you’ve been there and done that, you don’t have any idea how emotionally and mentally difficult it is. You expect the physical struggles, but the emotional ones are a surprise.
I’ve always had this cocky, “I can cope with whatever” attitude. Pretty devastating when you can’t cope. Greg may be fighting a mild case of post-traumatic stress. No big deal, he’s doing the right things. He’s still working, he’s exercising regularly, it’s pretty obvious he’s eating right. These things will work themselves out.
The one thing he’s NOT doing that is important is maintaining a regular sleep schedule. The NBA schedule doesn’t allow that. He may be a lot better by the end of this week than he was at the start, if he sleeps regularly while at home. But he’ll be fine.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
so true
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
Wowie,
some of the fans here are more treacherous than NFL fans. A ten or even twenty game slump is no big whoop so why worry about LA. Greg’s a rook so he should make friends with Mr. Pine. Put your faith in Nate and not Kevin. Thanks hotstuffdb22, I believe you are correctly implying that coaching will fix these.
easy on the Fruitcake greg.
what they both need is some meth mixed with gunpowder, or what those pirates use khat. i think the nba only drug tests at airports anyway. im not technical anyalist but when shaq was killing people he got the ball down really low so he was just one step and a jump for a slam dunk. 2 steps and he wasnt so hot. ok its obvious gregs footwork sucks but he needs either to be close enough to jump and slam or a Quick turn and shoot move or a turn the other way with a hook and mix it up. right now its the same thing every time.
Cocaine mixed with gunpowder, right?
I believe it’s called “Brown-Brown.”
"I like blocks," Fernandez said.
um how about a season or one to become cohesive , there is literally not enought data to
start claiming that "the big three "doesnt exist.
This brings up another point . The Big three exists to the media , fans and the marketing team-NOT in the lockerroom. Every player within our “big 3” is not going to be HOT every single night. It’s not in LMA ‘s nature yet, Oden is a freaking rookie for God’s sake and Broy will have a night off, naturally .
So , in that sense, yeah the big 3 doesn’t exist but not in the way you are attempting to convey . Once this team has a couple months to start playing together things will click more than they already are.
We have a 9-6 record w/ only 5 games happening at home, this is impressive and regardless of the lack of productivity of our “big 3” things are great
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
you seem more optomistic than usual...
this is way more logical and well reasoned than most Sophia comments.
Is everything okay?
Do you need to talk about anything?
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 25, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
"way more logical and well reasoned than most Sophia comments"
Burn
While I press a cold pack to my burnt ego.
:)
Should I post something irrational:
Trade Nate?
Travis SUCKS!?
Batum is HOOOTTTTT!?
I dont have much time these days to spend on BE so I have to make my comments precise and to the point. No fluff or thinly veiled lust for Batum.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
I giveth... and then I taketh away!
Backhanded compliments are always a great way to go.
I think we should officially start a new complaint:
WE DEMAND TO SEE MORE OUT OF RLEC!!! His escapability is through the roof right now… I mean, do you ever even see this guy? He’s like an abberation.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 25, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
He was always the tallest Blazer Dancer
I mean Blazer teammate.
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
Seriously, when did we see him last?
Is he still on our team? Does he stay in the confines of his home? Is he agoraphobic? Is he ever at the practice facility? Is he ever in the arena? Does he receive regular treatment?
Where in the world is Carmen San Diego Raef LaFrentz and his expiring contract?!?
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 25, 2008 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
he is at home probably making lots of babies w/ his wife
I doubt he works out w/ the team or practices or shows up to the games. Heck , he may be is Kansas again (there’s no place like home) He had the shoulder surgery and deemed inactive and the INS pays him now, right? So he’s basically out of the picture.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
Well I just don't know...
that’s why we need to lodge an official complaint DEMANDING that we see us some RLEC!
See, Sophia… this is more like the old you right here…
he is probably at home making lots of babies w/ his wife
Where do you come up with this stuff?
I love it.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 25, 2008 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Why thank you :)
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
First, thank you for your kind comments.
The point in the OP is that the big 3 doesn’t exist as they have been portrayed by Jason Quick (media) and the Blazers Front Office (marketing – see blazer website, about 2 months ago). So in this sense, we agree.
My point was simply that this phrase shouldn’t have “popular names” attached to it, but should have the biggest 3 players on a team in terms of value. Therefore, there is enough data to make this point, if we agree there is some type of relationship between numbers and value.
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 25, 2008 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I was going to type that but did not for fear of being overly redundant
that if I were to name this Big Three (it truly changes every night, but that’s beside the point) or concede to the notion that a Big Three actually exists, the members would be
1. Roy
3. Przybilla
3.LmA
For most teams and the more, run-of-the-mill GM’s , constructing a team using the “big 3” w/ a supporting cast (see Celtics) works brilliantly . However, Nate uses a 10 man rotation, therefor this big 3 is a BIG condradiction.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
And fan frustration
Because the fans expected at least two of the big three to be there right now.
It’s ironic. The wins are higher than I expected and about where I hoped, but I’m not happy with the team because of reasons I already stated.
We will have a big three, but they’re not there right now. I think they need to find some fire. I think I’ll give them some matches while i’m in town.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
But the first 30-40 games
were always going to be about adjusting, finding chemistry, finding our rhythm, getting used to playing together, etc.
We only needed enough wins in the first two months to stay alive, with the schedule the way it was.
We’re 3-4 wins ahead of staying alive pace right now. If we only had 5 wins by now, it wouldn’t have been a total disaster, not with the early season schedule.
We’ve had a few games where you can see what this team is going to be when things are clicking for them. If you expected them to show that consistently this early in the season (remember, Martell is still out), it was never going to happen. All we were ever going to see was glimpses, this early.
Remember the difference between the first 20 games last year and the next 20? At some point, this team is going to hit that stride.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
I just don't understand this
People are going literally crazy over Greg’s supposed “attitude”
Has it ever occured to anyone that the way he looks zoned out and staring off into the distance, looking “disinterested” may be his way of trying to push everything out of his mind, all distractions, etc? Not everyone does this by becoming hyper-focused and conjuring up ridiculous emotional responses, like KG or Joakim Noah. I do this myself—when I’m trying to really focus on something, I don’t get angry and stare down everyone in my path, I look like I’m zoning out, my eyes wander, people ask me if I’m doing all right.
Good thing I don’t play for the Blazers, people would ALWAYS think I’m disinterested, lack passion, a fraud who doesn’t liek basketbal, a crybaby, or a 10 year old.
To point out negatives when they should be is a good thing, but this kind of hyper emotional over-reaction is just disgusting. To sit back and say “He’s acting like a ten year old” sounds a lot like, to me, a 10 year old caring more about not getting what he wants, than about another human being, and feeling justified in making all kinds of outrageous conclusions based on his frustrations with the person.
This is why I just don’t really read the fanposts here anymore.
It's a good point
People do react differently to things.
I wear my passion on my sleeve at times. My GF is passionate but VERY differently than I am. For a while I thought she wasn’t because, to me, she seems so low key about it.
People are cool because they’re all different. Thanks for sharing you do the same thing. that actually makes me feel a lot better because I was already questioning if his body language and attitude were being blown out of proportion. This coupled with Ben’s post that the trainer didn’t think Greg had any issues is leaning me towards “blown out of proportion” now.
Oh to be a fly in the wall so I had more information!!!
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
Yeah
I wondered if Greg was trying to put on a Bayless face.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
What if
There was a woman across the court with huge hooters? Did anyone bother to look in the direction Greg was looking?
no tim they would just suspect you were stoned
yeah i think timing ,practice and getting the ball in the right place. one foot in the key at least will solve much
Give at least
Oden time… He’s a rookie coming from a heavy injury, we can wait a bit before over-analysing his attitude.
You guys have to realize
that our players are so young, and they don’t have that experience older people have to handle problems with determination. See I think that Oden and maybe a few other players on out team are sad and depressed. We want to see them smile and see that hope, and all that good stuff in them, but it comes through life experience.
They never had to deal with big problems in their lives as far as I know. So when they encounter a problem in life they cant solve fast, they become sad and mad and stuff. But when they will go through this they will learn that no matter what they will be fine. But if they never learned it, how can they be confident and happy?
Thats why its good to have a vet on the team. Cuz he will look at the players and they will see that he is not worried about them and it will give them confidence.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Congratulations hotstuffdb22! This may be your best thread ever! IMHO
I real y enjoyed carefully reading through this thread. There were so many well thought out comments .
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
Well,
thanks for those kind comments. I think sometimes too much when I write posts, whereas this one I sort’ve just “reacted” – kind’ve like what McMillan is trying to teach Aldridge right now (go read O-Live for this reference)
by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 26, 2008 6:25 AM PST up reply actions
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