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Game 15 Recap: Blazers 91, Kings 90

Boxscore

 

General Observations

 

We didn’t really win this game but in the end we didn’t lose it either.  We were treated to some of the sloppier execution we’ve seen this season, especially on defense and in the Blazers’ fourth-quarter offense.  The Kings came with more sustained energy than the Blazers did.  But Portland had enough scoring spurts and enough rebounding to hold Sacramento off.  And as we’ve said a couple times already, a win’s a win.  There’s no need to be embarrassed about collecting the notch in the win column and going home.  Those kind of wins might well be the difference between getting in the playoffs and rooting for lottery balls again.  The last few years we haven’t gotten many wins like this and they haven’t mattered when we have.  This year is different.

 

The bad points in this game were pretty easy to see.  We suffered through putrid shooting from every forward who stepped on the court.  We didn’t seem to be able to cover the inside and outside against the Kings at the same time.  It was either one or the other, occasionally neither.  Our transition defense wasn’t sharp either.  (The Kings shot 46.5% as a whole and 53% from distance.  All four of their main scorers tallied 15 or above.)  Our big guys got tagged with fouls instead of drawing them against the opposition.  We missed free throws.  We put the ball in the wrong people’s hands at critical moments.  We allowed our guards to get trapped and had to race against the clock to get shots up.  We set crappy picks and didn’t use the decent ones we did get.  We second-guessed when we should have shot and shot when we should have second-guessed.  This was NOT a pretty game.

 

What saved us from this quagmire?  Brandon Roy, first of all.  He pretty much said, “I don’t know what’s going on here, but give me that ball.”  He loaded this team on his back in the second half and refused to let us lose.  We also rebounded well (thanks, Joel), forced some turnovers and scored off of them (thanks, Sergio), and dove on the ground a couple times, outhustling the Kings on enough possessions to stem the tide of suckiness.  We pushed the tempo for selected stretches and generally had success doing so.  In the end it was enough.  Sacramento played well.  We played poorly.  1-point win.

 

Individual Observations

 

Brandon Roy’s list of accomplishments tonight include being one of two players to get any meaningful penetration, being the only player to hit critical free throws, notching a team high 28 points on 10-19 shooting, hitting all 3 of his threes (half of Portland’s total for the game), plus adding his usual 4 rebounds and 3 assists.  We won this game because of his fearsome drives and clutch shooting that killed Sacramento’s runs.  Eventually they just started throwing the kitchen sink at him defensively which allowed our supporting cast to get open enough to hit despite their collective off night.

 

Sergio Rodriguez played the best game I’ve seen him play yet.  It didn’t show up in the box score like some of his more heralded games but he nabbed 3 steals and became the only guy besides Brandon to be able to get past anybody defensively.  He broke down the Kings and dished for 4 assists, bringing a critical spark to the offense.  Best of all you didn’t notice him standing out other than appropriately on his incisive trips into the lane.  He didn’t break the offense to get his moves in, he made the offense with his moves.

 

Nobody benefitted more from the penetration of the guards than Joel Przybilla, who shot 5-6 at the cup.  More importantly he grabbed 12 rebounds and notched 2 blocks and 2 steals.  He even tried to “D” up on the perimeter a couple times, forced out there by the Kings centers and their infernal shooting.  Joel is like the infantry in the army or the running game in football.  It’s not the sexiest part of the battle but you can’t win without it.

 

Steve Blake had another good night, shooting 5-11 for 12 points.  He missed all four of his threes but he made up for that with 5 assists, 3 rebounds, and 4 steals.  Neither Portland point guard handed Beno Udrih very well but to be fair their help was occupied with the sweet shooting Sacramento big men and couldn’t be spared.

 

Lamarcus Aldridge had 10 rebounds, 6 defensive.  That’s good.  He shot 3-14.  That’s bad.  Half of those shots were difficult.  Half of them were just bricks.  He’s in a slump right now.  It seems like the Blazers are trying to get him going…he’s certainly getting the looks.  He just can’t get past or away from defenders at the moment.

 

Greg Oden started this game but only played 19 minutes.  He had 3 fouls and 4 turnovers in that time, either shuffling feet or losing the ball.  He did grab 6 rebounds.  That’s quickly becoming his most bankable area.  He shot 1-3 for 3 points and had 2 assists.  He was frustrated on offense by the refs blowing offensive fouls or traveling every time he turned around.  The calls were legit though.  Footwork is important.

 

Nicolas Batum brought energy early but he didn’t get much run, probably because he was overmatched defensively.  He had 3 rebounds and a three-pointer in 12 minutes.

 

Travis Outlaw had a mixed game.  His 6 rebounds were well-earned and his 2 steals and assists were nice frosting on the cake.  His shot selection was just short of atrocious though and he didn’t look good on offense.  He also missed 4 of his 6 free throws, including critical ones down the stretch that could have extended the lead.  Rooting for Travis is like vacationing with your husband, the kids, and the hot, 19-year old au pair.  Lots of love, not much trust.

 

Channing Frye started out hitting a couple of nice jumpers and then fizzled like a dime store firecracker.  He shot 3-9 for 9 points with 2 boards and 2 assists but also committed 3 turnovers and 4 personal fouls.

 

Rudy Fernandez continues to struggle as opponents routinely close out on him.  He shot 1-4 for 3 points, 2 rebounds, and a steal in 20 minutes.  He also had 2 turnovers.

 

Final Thoughts

 

This will hopefully be a wakeup call for Wednesday’s game against Miami.  Just because we won a few on the road doesn’t mean the home victories will come automatically.  The Heat will also be out for revenge and they’re better equipped to get it.  I hope Lamarcus Aldridge wakes up before Michael Beasley makes an appearance.

 

Check out the Sacramento wrap-up at SacTownRoyalty

 

You can see the Jersey Contest results and enter for the next game  here.

 

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com) 

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Good observations Dave
Sergio Rodriguez played the best game I’ve seen him play yet. It didn’t show up in the box score like some of his more heralded games but he nabbed 3 steals and became the only guy besides Brandon to be able to get past anybody defensively. He broke down the Kings and dished for 4 assists, bringing a critical spark to the offense. Best of all you didn’t notice him standing out other than appropriately on his incisive trips into the lane. He didn’t break the offense to get his moves in, he made the offense with his moves.

Sergio, and the rest of the bench players for that matter, are often at their best when they’re not that noticeable. The bench should be a solid unit that does its job as expected. They should be a spark, not an out-of-control forest fire.

Whoever was posting Oden up....was just stupid.
by Eventine

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:20 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sergios defense

Great job to Mc & Serg for getting on the same page.

Congratulations. Nate McMillan has Sergio defending !

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 25, 2008 10:30 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Blazer logic

We blew them out on the road so naturally we eek out a win at home. Not a satisfying win, I guess the two blowouts spoiled me.

A little dissapointed in Oden, a whole lot of dissapointment in Aldridge and my respect for Roy keeps going up and up. I use to roll my eyes at Roy MVP talk but now I don’t think it’s just fan tunnel vision anymore. I don’t think he’s a serious candidate but he should definitley get an honorable mention for MVP.

by neutroticblazerfan on Nov 24, 2008 11:25 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was thinking

he looked like a smarter, less athletic version of Dwyane Wade out there…some of his drives were just jaw-dropping. Like…“Okay, he’s starting to drive but it doesn’t look like there’s enough room for him…whoa, he got through…WHAT? HE MADE THE LAYIN!”

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 1:24 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great Recap Dave

Your humor in the write-up is the only worthwhile thing from this game. I was there tonight and when the final horn sounded, there was strangely nothing to cheer for, except what felt like a hollow victory. I’m thinking perhaps we’ve been spoiled with the first 4 home games all being very exciting on their own merits, so this one was just . . . ugh.

ps: what in the world happened on that Sergio pass to Rudy under the basket to end the quarter? They didn’t show a replay on the big screen, and I had a bad angle to see, but boy, that looked like a solid pass to a player in the perfect position and then . . . out of bounds, King’s ball.

"I saw him in the face." – Sergio, when asked about how the latest Rodriguez-to-Fernandez alley-oop came to be.

by sergioFTW on Nov 24, 2008 11:25 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently

he didn’t see him in the face that time….lol!

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 1:25 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This was pretty painful to watch.

Even on my small grainy computer monitor.

LaMarcus sure smirks a lot after he makes mistakes. He reminds me of Rasheed Wallace without the passion, which sort of sounds like Joe Smith. OK, calm down. It’s only his third year and he’s still a million times better than Tyrus Thomas.

Is Sergio playing better defense, or is Blake just getting worse? A little of both perhaps?

by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 24, 2008 11:26 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

still undefeated at the R.G.!!

The Garden was loud at the end of the game tonight. I hope I get my voice back before Wednesday.
I love being the 6th man G-O Blazers!
Thanks for the recap Dave.

by j-rog on Nov 24, 2008 11:28 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LMA, you are on the clock. Sergio, this team would be lost without you

I don’t see the toughness or the aggressiveness necessary to succeed in the playoffs. He has no balance on his shots, has poor defensive rebounding, gets too rattled easily by physical defense, and can’t get to the free throw line. He has playoff failure written all over. He better spend some time working on his J because if that’s all he’s going to do, then he better shoot like KG.

DO NOT TRADE SERGIO. Sergio is only player, other than Roy, capable of dribble penetration in the rotation. He makes the 2nd unit go and creates open shots off his dribble. I have doubts about his outside shooting, but there is no question to his importance to this team.

KP has to take a hard look at this team and make some moves for dribblers. There is Roy and Sergio, then a bunch of spot up shooters.

Przybilla, why did you chuck that full court shot tonight? Or else you would be 15-15 on FGs the last 4 games. You are my favorite center in the league.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Nov 24, 2008 11:31 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two words on how to get more dribble penetration:

Less Baylesslessness

Whoever was posting Oden up....was just stupid.
by Eventine

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:35 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yea, but who would you take out of the rotation?

You’d have to take Roy or Rudy out of position. Sit Sergio or Blake? I don’t think that’s going to work.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Nov 24, 2008 11:37 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is it against the code of ethics to quote yourself in your sig?

I really like that line

Whoever was posting Oden up....was just stupid.
by Eventine

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:44 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Muauhahahha

couldn’t help myself

Two words on how to get more dribble penetration: Less Baylesslessness

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I feel really dirty

I’ll remove it for a while to give someone else a chance.

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:46 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gadzukes!

now I feel naked….first time ever without a sig I thinks!

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Quote me on something

Everything I write is quote-worthy.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 24, 2008 11:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

as you wish, sire

Quote me on something
Everything I write is quote-worthy.
--jscot

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is really hideous

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

That is really hideous
--jscot

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well done

Since you didn’t attribute to anyone, everyone will assume that either its your own invention, or that you are Joe Biden.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 24, 2008 11:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Don't be silly

My name is prezofdeath, not viceprezofdeath!

by prezofdeath on Nov 24, 2008 11:48 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would be a seriously scary

moniker for old Joe.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yah

That is brilliant.

Somebody needs to pick that up in their signature for sure.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 24, 2008 11:45 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I forgot to talk about Oden.

He looked like Jamal Magloire out there tonight. Slow, clumsy, traveling, and slow.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Nov 24, 2008 11:36 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He looked bad on offense,

but he still grabbed rebounds. At the very least he’s going to be Joel Pryzbilla with a baby hook.

by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 24, 2008 11:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He couldn't protect the paint or rotate on D

He may have rebounded well, but his D was bad. Udrih had at least a couple finishes on him. His pick and roll defense was bad and his rotation out to shooters were slow. This is one of those lets forget this game ever happened for him.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Nov 24, 2008 11:41 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oden is getting lost in the defense

At least once or twice a game. Those are the obvious times too. I’m sure there are more subtle transgressions.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 24, 2008 11:43 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I get the feeling

that he doesn’t know what to do. It’s hard to be aggressive on D when it leads to being out of place or quick fouls. He’ll figure that out in time.

by shralpster on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After watching Greg run the floor a couple times...

I am certain he will never be a defensive star in the NBA. The first time I saw Bob Pettit run the floor in 1954 I knew he was going to be amazing.

Greg just doesn’t have it, I can tell.

by Nick Van Excellent on Nov 24, 2008 11:54 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Robo Cop to Terminator

I heard one of the commentators in an earlier game say GO was second only to Aaron Brooks baseline to baseline during NBA drills. Aaron is freaky fast and beat Oden by just .06 seconds. If that is true, when Oden gets healthy he’ll transform from Robo Cop to Terminator. I’m willing to give the big guy some time before I pass judgement.

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.

by Blazer1342 on Nov 25, 2008 12:03 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The quote did mention NBA drills

so I assume before surgery…sorry I don’t remember which game.

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.

by Blazer1342 on Nov 25, 2008 12:12 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My bad for quoting a TV commentator

but if you google “nba combine 2007” you’ll find all kind of commnets saying Oden was a freak of nature and would have been the best athlete out of the 2007 drills if he would have participated in the bench press.
Mike Conely Jr. blew everyone away with 3.09 in the 3/4 court sprint. Oden was .07 behind Aaron with 3.27

I think someone saw Jason Q’s article and thought he was second, but that was not what Quick was saying.

I put 2 URL’s in here but they’re not showing????

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.

by Blazer1342 on Nov 25, 2008 3:38 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

URL

2007 nba combine

Quick article

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.

by Blazer1342 on Nov 25, 2008 6:39 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bob Pettit in 1954?

You are old! – Elgin

All the kids who played the blues would learn my licks with a bottleneck slide. - Richard Palmer-James

by 22baylor on Nov 26, 2008 10:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where is Timbo now with the Sergio talk???

Rudy for ROY
Campaign 08-09

"Rudy is not everyday a shooter." ~Rudy Fernandez

by twiggs on Nov 25, 2008 11:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

should roy attack the double teams that come near half court?

as we’ve seen in other games, late in this game sacto decided to pull a big to pressure roy to get the ball out of his hands. with a slow body coming at him, i have a hard time believing roy couldn’t just cut around the double and then see if there are better options than just predictably tossing the pass to the next closest man.

right now that pass either goes sideline or to the top of the 3, and the blazers don’t really seem to capitalize on the out of position player.

i mean, i know he should probably pass out of the double. i guess it’s nate that needs to get the rest of the guys ready to exploit the mismatches that come from the double. but right now it feels like we’d have more success with roy splitting or going around the double than unloading and counting on the rest of the team to take advantage of the 4 on 3. i guess i have that much confidence that roy can break the double and then make he pass directly to the open player or take it to the hole instead of passing to the nearest covered player by default and letting the defense readjust.

by shralpster on Nov 24, 2008 11:35 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not Roy's fault

that LA can’t score or even get fouled when he has deep position on Bobby Jackson of all people. I mean, when they trap that far out, we should be able to at least swing it to an open guy, either down low with a mismatch, or Travis/Rudy or Blake with a guy rotating out so they can put the ball on the floor and get past them. It’s a simple matter of keeping teams honest, if we can’t do simple things like exploit these mismatches, we’re going to be in for a lot more struggles than this.

And I hate to bring up that play again, but seriously, LA. It’s your third season, you should be automatic when you have post position on a 34 year old PG and the help is slow to rotate. To steal a joke from Bill Simmons, it might be time to go from the “big three” to the “big two featuring Lamarcus Aldridge” if we can’t get that shored up.

by Royster on Nov 24, 2008 11:50 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That play bothered me to no end

How does a 6’ 11" guy go for a reverse layup in that situation? Much less in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. It’s crunch time! Do you want to win or not!

The Classical
You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the
wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail.
THE CLASSICAL!
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.

by Dheepan on Nov 24, 2008 11:58 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, we don't even have that right now

We just have a BIG ONE with a buttload of developing/complementary/role players. As we saw the last couple of games, can’t count on Oden yet. Roy, on the other hand, wow. My mancrush on him is well deserved.

Yeah, I guess if we can’t swing out of the trap and exploit a mismatch, we have more problems than Roy can solve on his own by breaking the trap. It’s just that he’s been so clutch I’d like to see him not be quite as willing to give up the rock when pressure comes down the stretch.

by shralpster on Nov 25, 2008 12:09 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was real disappointed in that last possession

that we didn’t get him the ball and settled for that awkward Travis shot in traffic, but that was as much on Roy as anyone else. Looked like with about 12 seconds on the clock he had a chance to show for Blake up top, but didn’t make a cut. Still, I can’t blame Roy for anything bad after tonight.

by Royster on Nov 25, 2008 12:16 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Geez, you ALMOST blamed Roy there.

…almost. Man, that would have been unforgivable.

Maybe Roy considered that Trout had the ball with time winding down and the odds of a pass had dwindled to nill. “I could cut, but meh, what’s the point.” Hey, Travis came through at the ends of games plenty of times last year, but maybe that magic is gone.

by shralpster on Nov 25, 2008 12:33 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Blaming Roy there would have been like blaming Lebron

for the Cavs losing in the finals to the spurs. When a guy drags his team the entire game, some guys are really beyond reproach when they’re on their games, and Roy was on his tonight.

by Royster on Nov 25, 2008 12:49 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two sloppy games in a row

The good news is the blazers were able to put a run together and pull this one out. I guess that says something. Thanks BRoy.

GO
THE TEACHER ......come into my classroom "THE PAINT" for some tutelage.

by Blazer1342 on Nov 24, 2008 11:49 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Worst. Win. Ever. (Well at least so far this season)

But at least we got that W.

The Classical
You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the
wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail.
THE CLASSICAL!
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.

by Dheepan on Nov 24, 2008 11:56 PM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hurry back soon Martell ....

There’s been a lot of talk about logjams, but I think Nate is just waiting for someone to sieze the opportunity.

Sergio has kept Jerryd on the bench because he’s taken full advantage of his opportunity, and is playing the best basketball of his young career. Channing hasn’t been able to take advantage of his opportunity, and Travis is looking like this year’s Jarret Jack. Travis is playing so inconsistently right now, but he’s getting a lot of the critical minutes in the 4th Quarter essentially by default.

This team really needs Martell to come back and establish himself at the “3”. I really like what Nicolas is doing when he’s on the court, but he’s probably getting the appropriate amount of minutes right now. I think Nicolas should continue to get about 10 to 12 minutes a game even when Martell comes back, however Travis’ minutes should go down quite a bit (with most of time coming at the "4"), and Channing should probably only get spot minutes.

Greg is playing like a rookie, and I think that’s to be expected. I think Greg will continue to get better as the season rolls along, but I think it’s going to be a very uneven progression (two steps forward and one step back).

LaMarcus has probably been the biggest surprise so far this year. I never expected to see him struggle so much.

Phil

by Philski on Nov 24, 2008 11:58 PM PST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I had penciled a solid 20 and 8 without much thought in preseason

But you know it’s only what 15 games in? Still a ways to go. But I can’t help but be disappointed at how soft he is, Charles Barkley’s grandma would drop 45 on LA.

The Classical
You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the
wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail.
THE CLASSICAL!
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.

by Dheepan on Nov 25, 2008 12:02 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol so glad someone caught that

NBA LP shows the same 5 commercials night in and night out. The cartoonish stars wars crap, and 3 variants of “Where **** happens”, the NBA store version, Wade, and KG, and Charles Barkley.

The Classical
You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the
wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail.
THE CLASSICAL!
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.

by Dheepan on Nov 25, 2008 12:07 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, I can pretty much play that piano riff now

and I don’t even play piano. That’s how much I’ve heard it. (A lot.)

by shralpster on Nov 25, 2008 12:12 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I watched LMA closely

And I think his neck is still bothering him and affecting his shot

by southern oregon on Nov 25, 2008 12:07 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I heard LMA talk about his neck bothing him before ...

What did he do ? I got the impression that it was just a short term problem that bothered him for one game …

Phil

by Philski on Nov 25, 2008 12:10 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you're overestimating Webster's effect on the team

This is the same guy who has been inconsistent throughout his career. He doesn’t have handles and doesn’t take the ball to the rim. Another spot up shooter added to a roster of spot up shooters. The 3-ball isn’t the problem, the problem is multi-talented basketball players able to create for themselves or others.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Nov 25, 2008 12:11 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More like hoping ...

I agree completely with you about Martell, and how he’s played in the past. The last thing that the Blazers need is another guy to come in and be inconsistent. I’m desperately hoping that this is the year that Martell takes advantage of his opportunity …

Phil

by Philski on Nov 25, 2008 12:15 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question is

What mindset will he be in post surgery?

Average Martell?

Dominant Martell?

Congratulations. Nate McMillan has Sergio defending !

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 25, 2008 10:34 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I too agree.

Martell has always been inconsistent with his 3 ball and besides we now have others who can shoot it from there (Blake, Roy, Rudy and Travis).

Develop Batum. He’s our 3 of the future. I totally love his game. I expect maybe he can round out the “Big Three” someday. I like Martell but I don’t really want to see him coming back and taking minutes from Nic.

by TwoDeep on Nov 25, 2008 10:49 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oden's not entirely to blame

our perimeter defenders seem to have no ability to keep people in front of them. we are not funneling penetration to the middle for GO or Joel to defend. The bigs will only get in foul trouble as long as we defend the perimeter so poorly. Don’t know the ansewer ..just saying… as far as Oden’s play goes, He is learning and the team will have to adjust to get him looks. It appears the refs are going to give the opposition a lot more leeway than Oden is gong to get at least for now. Without Roy we lose this one BIG!

by Odenrising on Nov 25, 2008 12:00 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would have to argue

I think along with Roy, Joel picked up the majority of the slack and anchored the team when it was necessary down the strech. The shooting was amazingly bad tonight and when that happens you have to rely on the intangables players bring, and the big one that was necessary tonight was rebounding. Thanks Joel!

I also just need to put in a word about Sergio’s passes in the lane… butter. Silky sweet butter.

"OK, it's going to rain tomorrow. And there is going to be a Greenpeace meeting and hippies are going to be protesting" ~ The Buffet of Goodness on Portland

by Blazer on Nov 25, 2008 12:02 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gotta give Joel credit for the continuity he brings

Night and day how the teams played with him out there vs Oden. Really makes you appreciate the small things that vets have learned. But beyond just that veteran experience, yeah, he’s looking better than ever.

by shralpster on Nov 25, 2008 12:15 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+/-

http://www.nba.com/games/20081124/SACPOR/boxscore.html

Greg Oden: -22
Joel Przybilla: +23

Any questions?

Naw, I love Oden, but this wasn’t one of his best games.

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 2:13 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well it looks

Like the Greg Oden starting experiment was a smashing success. What did he do better as a starter that he could not have done from the bench?

If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.

"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me

by coastrider on Nov 25, 2008 12:03 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oden starting

 Uh I think the point was to get GO time on the floor with LMA and Roy. If you look at the stats and if you saw the game, Yes I was there, LMA looked as much or more out of touch as Oden yet they still won. One game closer to figuring out HOW to play together!

by Odenrising on Nov 25, 2008 12:07 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly!

They could have accomplished the same questionable results with him coming off the bench

If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.

"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me

by coastrider on Nov 25, 2008 12:13 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Odenrising is suggesting that

the more shared minutes the “big 3” play together the better. Oden off the bench would mean fewer shared minutes, unless you pull Przy quickly or leave the rest of the starters in longer to get PT next to GO.

That seems to be a benefit of starting Greg.

And it’s awfully convenient to use hindsight to question a decision. GO has had a few good games, and there was plenty of reason to think he was primed for another good one tonight considering the competition.

by shralpster on Nov 25, 2008 12:20 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One question

Was he a starter during those games?

If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.

"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me

by coastrider on Nov 25, 2008 12:22 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Umm, no.

So if he has some good games off the bench, should we leave him there for eternity?

So if Greg has ONLY had good games off the bench, does it make no sense to start him? Seems like the only way to find out if he can have good games starting as well is to actually start him.

by shralpster on Nov 25, 2008 12:25 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok

So, given that mindset, the big question would seem to be; How many games are we willing to Lose if he is not ready? Mentally and physically ready? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.

"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me

by coastrider on Nov 25, 2008 12:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Presumably

Nate thinks he is mentally and physically ready. Presumably, Nate is in a better position to assess that than we are. Presumably, if Nate becomes convinced that he isn’t ready after all, he’ll make a change.

So, if Nate’s assessment was wrong, before long Greg will be back on the bench.

If Nate’s assessment that Greg is ready is accurate, then one of two things happened last night. Either A) this was just a blip, one of those games that just happens, and the decision to start him as opposed to bring him off the bench wouldn’t have mattered or B) it is going to take a few games to adjust, and the problems last night were adjustment problems.

If A) is right, it’s no big deal, and we got the W anyway. If B) is right, better to start the adjustment against a team that we can beat even if we play lousy.

If Nate thinks Greg is ready, this was a reasonable decision, even if it does end up costing us a win or two. So far, it hasn’t cost us any.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 25, 2008 2:34 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Small hole iin your argument....

…. we didn’t lose the game.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 25, 2008 6:57 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not the argument

We did lose the game last night in all but score, and that was just a point.

If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.

"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me

by coastrider on Nov 25, 2008 7:56 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As far as last night's game goes...

… the score is the only thing that counts. The NBA does not award style points or extra credit for effort. It only counts wins and losses. Last night was a win. Therefore, Nate starting Oden hasn’t cost us anything. Yet.

If he starts tomorrow night, the team plays the same and we lose, then you can ask the question of how many games is Nate willing to lose in order to integrate Oden in with the starters. My guess is he’s not interested in losing any games. He still gave Joel more minutes than Greg. Besides, one should not draw conclusions based on one or even a few games.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 25, 2008 9:30 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Starting

doesn’t matter as much on this team right now. Look at Batum. Starter = 12 minutes. We will become more conventional at some point but where Oden gets his 19-28 minutes isn’t as important as what he does with them.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 25, 2008 9:43 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We still accomplished that goal, however.

We won because we outscored the other team. That’s how games are won. It wasn’t pretty, but we surely outplayed them by gathering more points. We were able to gather more points because of rebounding and turnovers rather than scoring efficiently. Nevertheless, the result was a win by a slim margin.

by poster on Nov 25, 2008 1:29 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dave,

I know you don’t like plus/minus, but I think its time to discuss it with respect to Oden and Joel. We’ve now had 5 consecutive games where the team has played MUCH better with Joel than with Greg. Its only partly Greg’s fault, but Its something that is worthy of discussion and I’d like to see your thoughts on it. I think its a significant concern, as big a concern (or bigger) as LMA’s horrible shooting.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Nov 25, 2008 12:09 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What are you suggesting?

We just cut Oden and get him off the team? It takes 2 years for someone to come back from micro fracture surgery. It’s going to take awhile. You just have to be patient.

by Stegie33 on Nov 25, 2008 12:13 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm just suggesting...

… that its something we should be willing to discuss. Nate did a good job giving Joel the crunch time minutes today. He should continue to get them at least for the near future.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Nov 25, 2008 12:21 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No one's suggesting he get cut

probably jksnake just means to cut back on forcefeeding Greg so many minutes right now and let him keep easing into things.

In the end result, it’s about W’s, and it’s not simply a one-off trend or a small difference, in which case +/- is pretty useless, but it’s been pretty staggering over the last week or so, which would indicate that playing Pryz more is the best way to ensure those wins. We can’t count on Salmons fumbling away a ball and then missing a very makeable shot to win every game. If Joel is still giving us the best chance to win, maybe it’s not quite time to amp up Greg’s minutes.

by Royster on Nov 25, 2008 12:23 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It isn't about W's right now.

You must develop Greg this year. You simply must. Ws and playoffs mean nothing this year if they come at the expense of hurting Greg’s progression and development that could affect his out come as a player over all.

You must get all three players on the same page, and you must teach them to pass to Greg when he’s rolling after a pick and roll and is literally wide open.

If we cannot develop this then it is all nothing. The end game is not a bunch of wins but rather a bunch of championships – we don’t win any championship without force feeding Greg minutes and developing him. Nate must do a better job at this – this is not about this year it is about the overall picture.

by TSE on Nov 25, 2008 1:42 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not sure I'd call 19 minutes ...

…. force feeding Oden.

Joel still played more than Greg. And least we forget, Portland won the game.

As I’ve mentioned before, Kevin Pritchard must sleep well at night, knowing he has so many knowledgeable replacements for McMillan among Blazer fans. In other words, don’t you think Nate might have at least a clue as to what he’s doing?

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 25, 2008 7:01 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I doubt that patterns continues as Oden gains his explosiveness, quickness and just gets accustomed to the team

We’ve gone what, 7-3 since Oden got back? that’s all I’m worried about for now.

The Classical
You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the
wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail.
THE CLASSICAL!
WORD UP. STAY. FRESCO.

by Dheepan on Nov 25, 2008 12:14 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love plus-minus

I just love it for blocks of 40+ games or more. 82 is even better.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 25, 2008 12:27 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And I'm not being sarcastic or joking

I think it’s a great stat as long as people understand its limitations. Limitation #1 with a bullet is that it falls prey to outside factors. That means you have to give it enough time that most of those factors even out before you give it credence. It’s like panning gold from a muddy gravel riverbank. Gotta shake for a while to find the good stuff.

Even then, as with the Brandon stuff below, you have to be careful. But usually 50+ games in you start to get an idea of where people are going.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 25, 2008 12:39 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ok but

surely you concede this team is playing MUCH better with Przy than Oden right now. Greg Oden is struggling big time.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Nov 25, 2008 12:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tonight they did

In Phoenix too. Last week Oden had a huge effect. The thing Greg can do that Joel can’t is draw an enormous amount of defensive attention down low. That frees up a lot of options. You also see people changing their shots in the lane more against Greg than against Joel, even though Joel is clearly the better, smarter defender right now. Oden just has that intimidation factor…at least against teams with weaker frontcourts.

I suspect it’s going to be like this for a while. Oden will have some great games where you think he’s well on his way, then he’ll have bad games where Joel will prove his worth ten times over. The nice thing is that, so far anyway, Joel has still excelled when Greg has. I hope that becomes more of the norm.

The long and short of it is, you can’t avoid playing either of them right now. It’s just a matter of “In what situations?” and “For how many minutes?”

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 25, 2008 12:55 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and Golden State (the first half at least) and Chicago and the first Sac game

I agree that both should continue to play, but Przy has to be getting the crunch time minutes at this point.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Nov 25, 2008 12:59 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unless Greg is playing well that night

He’s had stretches where he brings more to the table than Joel. If he’s tearing someone up (wasn’t it the game at Minnesota where he was so key for us in the 4th), you don’t take him out just because “it’s crunch time and Joel needs to be in.”

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 25, 2008 2:45 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A counterpoint

Joel doesn’t draw attention and thus he shoots an incredible percentage due to being able to sneak in for quick dunks and tip-ins.

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 2:18 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus minus

Dubious stat with alot of outside factors. There is a post from today that details Greg’s impact for this team. A big man in the NBA is very dependent on his guards and forwards play…not saying Oden played great but he has an impact that stats don’t tell.

by Odenrising on Nov 25, 2008 12:17 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

That stat just suggests the team did more poorly with him in, and that’s still ignoring the variability of the other team’s play. Clearly GO didn’t help as much tonight as we’d have liked, but part of that plus-minus stat goes on the rest of the Blazers, not just Greg. They all have to play better together and get the kinks out. Playing GO with the guys he’ll eventually play with the most is probably the best way to do that.

by shralpster on Nov 25, 2008 12:29 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We have to get back to limiting turnovers

We’ve had way more than usual the last 5 games or so. Has to stop.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Nov 25, 2008 12:23 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Turnovers vs practice time

The schedule has limited practice time to practically nothing. The ball movement and defensive sets all appear more reactionary than planned or imposed. Again I would say this team is only going to get better.

by Odenrising on Nov 25, 2008 12:27 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Roy's +/-

Has never been stellar. One of the reasons Hollinger has yet to embrace him as a higher echelon player Tonight Roy was -3 but his impact was much better than that suggests.

by Odenrising on Nov 25, 2008 12:34 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Roy's plus-minus

has come from playing 37 minutes per game on a team that has ranged from really stinky to somewhat mediocre. It will improve from here on out.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 25, 2008 12:36 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hollinger says a lot of suspect things

He also said that Kevin Martin was going to have a down season because the history suggested such.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 25, 2008 6:21 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This year?

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 2:19 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The use of plus-minus is confusing here.

If you’re going to use plus-minus, then shouldn’t you mention that Aldridge has by far the best oncourt vs offcourt plus-minus? If he’s supposedly sucking on offense while being soft on defense, then this is a pretty big fluke. In the past two seasons, he has also been very good in defensive adjusted plus-minus. Three straight seasons of softness being mistaken for good defense with Aldridge?

I’m not a huge fan of plus-minus. However, there are certain conclusions that should be drawn if one believes in it.

On another note, I think Greg needs some time. The move to the starting lineup was fine IMO even if Przybilla is playing better at the moment. He has only played 9 games, which is a very small sample size. He’s only 14 or so months from microfracture, and he’s a rookie. Sure, this only goes so far. We’d play Bayless if we truly only cared about developing guys. However, Oden is a special case IMO. He needs the time.

by poster on Nov 25, 2008 1:47 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apropos of LaMarcus Aldridge, ...

it’s on offense whereby he boosts his +/- stats.

Net Points Scored Per 100 Possessions: +15.6
Net Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions: +0.6

From that standpoint, one would conclude that Aldridge’s enhances the team’s offense and makes little difference on defense. That’s a misleading statistic in this instance, however, ’cause Aldridge is playing ahead of two even softer, more selfish mid-range chuckers in Channing Frye and Travis Outlaw.

All things considered, Aldridge, Frye, and Outlaw have each played like they own tons of stock in Proctor & Gamble Co. — which produces Charmin toilet paper — as they’ve taken the power out of power forward.

by AK1984 on Nov 25, 2008 6:47 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point.

However, I think the historical point still stands. He has a good defensive adjusted plus-minus historically. The same goes for one of your favorites, Mr. Joel Przybilla, with a negligible -0.7 rating on defense at this moment. Considering his replacements for a while didn’t include Oden, he held even on this stat with Aldridge, Frye, and Outlaw. Heck, charmin soft Frye has a -6.4 impact on defensive oncourt-offcourt. These stats don’t seem to mean much right now.

Again, my point is that Aldridge has been historically fine on offense by plus-minus measures. I guess it should be added that the current season plus-minus stats have too small of a sample size IMO. I’d also like to add that impact is more important than style, meaning Aldridge, Frye, and Outlaw are bashed too much for looking the way they do rather than their results.

by poster on Nov 25, 2008 1:22 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I watched the game as a replay, and was very worried when Travis missed that last shot

The last 30 seconds were horribul to watch. First Blake doesn’t find somebody to throw the ball to and has to take the last timeout. Then neither Roy nor Rudy manage to get really open, and Travis takes his head down before going for a contested fallaway jumper. Ugh. That one point win was more lucky then the one against San Antonio when Finley missed the last shot. It’s a great sign for our playoff hopes that we won these games and are undefeated on home court, but there is quite some work left to do to make this team really dangerous for the rest of the league.

Besides LMA the guy who seems to struggle a lot right now (especially late in games) is Rudy. He gets more attention by the defense like Dave mentioned. Individually he almost disappears in the fourth quarters, and even open shots don’t fall anymore. He still has good ideas to change things up like the pass inside to Channing, but somehow the execution doesn’t work well (just shot it over his head). Maybe he has problems adapting to different lineups, since Nate throws him in with almost every combination imaginable. I hope the units will be consolidated again once Martell returns.

by Norsktroll on Nov 25, 2008 5:23 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good points
First Blake doesn’t find somebody to throw the ball to and has to take the last timeout.

I’ve noticed Blake is not that great of an inbounder—he tends to err on the side of caution way too much. I think Batum would be much better.

Travis takes his head down before going for a contested fallaway jumper.

That was truly an awful shot. I told my brother “Now watch, Outlaw will foul Salmons with 0.6 seconds left and no timeouts.” And he DID foul Salmons but it wasn’t called. He clearly slapped Salmons on the arm two or three times which caused the travel (which was also not called).

I hope the units will be consolidated again once Martell returns.

Yes, me too.

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 2:27 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Blazers Win! The Blazers Win! The Blazers Win!

Thought I’d just remind some folks of that minor little fact.

Seriously, what is wrong with some of you people? A bad game and people are calling for LaMarcus’ head, saying Oden will never be a force and implying that Nate still sucks as a coach by trying to force Oden into the starting 5.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 25, 2008 7:11 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

Important not to overreact, nor to draw too many conclusions from a single game.

The main take-away point is that we won a game in which we played comparatively poorly. That wouldn’t have happened before this year. It’s one of the signs of improvement.

At the end of the day you have to be pretty mercenary if you’re going to follow NBA basketball. Winning is the main thing and there’s not a close second.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 25, 2008 9:25 AM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm different

I like good basketball first and foremost. W’s to me are good, but I’m a basketball fan first and a Blazer fan second. I’d prefer a good game to an ugly win in most cases (except in the playoffs). I know I’m in the minority there but it’s my preference.

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 2:30 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I had fun watching the game

All I care about is the win and I love close games. I’d rather have the ball in the Blazer’s hands with 10 seconds left and a 1 point lead, but sometimes you have to rely on your defense.

by tominhawaii on Nov 25, 2008 7:54 AM PST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ve been a lurker for awhile now and finally joined. I have a few observations I’d like to share.

1. Rudy- I think Rudy may be a little tired and that’s why he’s disapeared in the last few games. We just came off a stretch of 5 games in 7 days in 5 different cities and he’s use to playing in what? 2 or 3 in that amount of time. Plus the competition is a whole lot tougher. He’s not as crisp as he was a few games ago. Teams may have ajusted to him but after watching him in the gold medal game I don’t think that’s the whole story.

2. Oden- People need to cut him some slack. He just came off of a surgery that takes about 2 years to recover from fully. The others that went through this also had the benefit of having played NBA ball before the surgery and knew what it was all about. Greg’s learning a new level of the game without all the tools he’s accustum to having and that’s gotta be tough. We probably won’t see the real Oden until next year.

3. The team as a whole needs time to pactice together so they can truely intagrate the things they’re trying to learn on the fly. Once our schedule slows down a bit and we have some time at our facilities. We’ll start playing smarter, faster, stronger and smoother.

Just my thoughts. Hope I’m not out to lunch! lol

by kaizzer on Nov 25, 2008 10:48 AM PST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I agree with everything you wrote...

It took Amare a long time to come all the way back. His first summer league was abysmal. He didn’t have lateral quickness.

Look at Amar’e now. Different story. We are watching a slow Greg Oden.

Greg v 2.0. Coming next fall.

by Cablinasian on Nov 25, 2008 1:47 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome!

Good points too. I’m out to lunch but that’s because I’m hungry.

"I believe in [Joel]. I just love the way he plays." - Nate McMillan

by jamon51 on Nov 25, 2008 2:33 PM PST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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