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NBA Trios

Over the weekend we talked about the Phoenix Suns’ trio of Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, and Shaquille O’Neal being able to produce better right now than the Blazers’ young trio of Brandon Roy, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Greg Oden.  We hastened to add that this doesn’t mean we’d trade the two groups because the order will not always remain the same.  (And we like our guys anyway!)  But RIGHT NOW if you had to bet your life on one game you’d want the Suns’ trio to play it instead of the Blazers’.  This helps explains why it’s quite possible for Portland to lose to the Suns, which for some reason people were finding aberrant.

 

This got me to thinking…where do the Blazers Big Three stack up against other NBA trios?  How many other teams have a threesome that they’d gladly throw against ours right now.  I did a little pondering and this is what I came up with.  I decided the only fair way to do it would be to assume everyone is healthy, which includes Greg Oden.  However we’re considering Oden playing like he’s still coming off of surgery, as we haven’t seen the other Oden yet.

 

The way I figure it, you’d have to say the following trios are more talented, bankable, or at least able to produce significantly more statistically than the Blazers’ core right now.

 

Boston Celtics--  Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen

Dallas Mavericks--  Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, either Jason (Kidd or Terry)

Denver Nuggets--  Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony, Kenyon Martin

Detroit Pistons-- Richard Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed or Tayshaun

Golden State Warriors--  Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Corey Maggette

Houston Rockets--  Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, Ron Artest

Los Angeles L*kers--  Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum

Miami Heat--  Dwyane Wade, Shawn Marion, Michael Beasley

New Orleans Hornets--  Chris Paul, David West, Tyson Chandler

Orlando Magic-- Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu

Phoenix Suns--  Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Shaquille O’Neal

San Antonio Spurs--  Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili

Utah Jazz--  Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur

Washington Wizards--  Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler

 

I’m not entirely comfortable with the Nuggets, Warriors, and Wizards as there’s no way I’d touch any of those three groups with a ten foot pole were I Portland.  However all three groups are significant statistical producers so I felt it only fair to keep them in.

 

In addition the following four groups would probably merit an argument when stacked against the current version of Roy, Aldridge, and Oden:

 

Atlanta Hawks--  Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Mike Bibby

Charlotte Bobcats--  Gerald Wallace, Jason Richardson, Emeka Okafor

Philadelphia 76’ers--  Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, Andre Miller

Toronto Raptors--  Chris Bosh, Jermaine O’Neal, Jose Calderon

 

That means the key players for the Blazers have a reasonable chance of being outmatched by their counterparts on at least 11 teams bare minimum, more likely 14, and up to 18 depending on your leanings.

 

This doesn’t necessarily mean the teams listed here are better than the Blazers (though most in that top list still are).  It does explain why expecting a guaranteed win on most nights should not yet be part of our fan repertoire.  Simply put, the players that make us most special aren’t that distinctive collectively yet.  Three years down the road that’s going to be different as our players will have grown (as individuals and together) and many on this list will be fading, as it includes mostly mature stars.  For now, though, we’re not going to win on talent alone.  It’s going to take a fight and smart play to post a good record this year.

 

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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first?

thats a first!

You think I know the first thing about how hard your life has been, how you feel, who you are, because I read Oliver Twist? Does that encapsulate you? Personally... I don't give a $hit about all that, because you know what, I can't learn anything from you, I can't read in some fukin' book. Unless you want to talk about you, who you are. Then I'm fascinated. I'm in. But you don't want to do that do you sport? You're terrified of what you might say. Your move, chief.

This is my more "user friendly" sig -quote from Good Will Hunting (by mork) lol

by RoysBlazers on Nov 2, 2008 11:49 PM PST reply actions  

Any trio that involves LeBron James

would also be ahead of our trio as well. I mean honestly, wouldn’t you rather have LBJ + Mo Will + Z or Boobie. Now if we start talking about foursomes and include Rudy, I think we might move up the latter a little.

by as11osu on Nov 3, 2008 12:00 AM PST reply actions  

I thought about doing that

but I decided to stick with true trios.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 1:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Are Kenyon Martin, Carmello Anthony, and Allen Iverson

a “true trio?” This would be of course ignoring the fact that AI was traded today.

--

by CaptainSexyJacob on Nov 3, 2008 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

great post, it needed to be said

it also points how how much we rely on our white unit outplaying our opponent’s bench unit. Consistent bench play was very instrumental in the Blazers exceeding expectations last year and winning 41 games

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Nov 3, 2008 12:03 AM PST reply actions  

unfortunately for us

there are 9 western conference teams on there…

fortunately for us, Oden will likely get better. And the team will settle down a little more hitting shots, and making us more of a Quintet instead of a trio at all times. (I hope anyway). I may include the Grizzlies in this argument.. they have rudy gay, Marc Gasol (questionable, definitely more of a bruiser than finesse player like Pau), and OJ or Conley, your choice. Definitely a dangerous set offensively, when hot, because of youth it isnt as consistent as it will be. Defense is the ? mark.

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life,(of the Blazers), (of KP's madness), of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity." - Albert Einstein

by BlazerandBeaverBELIEVER on Nov 3, 2008 12:22 AM PST reply actions  

The Los Angeles Lakers ...

should’ve pushed heavily to keep Marc Gasol instead of Sun Yue.

In that case, Mitch Kupchak wouldn’t’ve had to re-sign Didier-Ilunga Mbenga.

by AK1984 on Nov 3, 2008 1:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree for the most part

Although I think the sixers’ trio of miller/AI2/brand also belongs in the first group. Miami’s trio arguably belongs in the second, although the strength of wade/matrix alone is a lot.

Things happen for a reason they say, but I say there's a reason things happen.

by sixth on Nov 3, 2008 1:32 AM PST reply actions  

I agree in principle

The four teams you mentioned in addition could beat us at least on some nights depending on who is more rested, in better game shape, etc. For example Charlotte just handily beat the Heat this weekend. Looked easy. Anything’s posssibbbuuulllee in the NBA. Danny Granger plus whoever else are the other big 2 in Indiana just beat healthy Celtics by double digits. Though that is most likely an aberration.

I like our chances against the Wizards and Golden State when one of their big three is not available (as is the case right now).

by Norsktroll on Nov 3, 2008 1:55 AM PST reply actions  

And I’m glad we were able to handle the Ginobili-less Spurs. That’s a valuable win.

by Norsktroll on Nov 3, 2008 1:56 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure we can collect wins

against most of these teams. However it’s not like we’re going to come in and own the court. They have advantages too, among them three good players to field at the tops of their lineup, just like we have.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 1:58 AM PST up reply actions  

True, true

So your point is the Blazers can beat some of those teams on a given night, but the fans should not expect it to happen and should not be too disappointed if we come out losing because in general/statistically a number of opponents have the better core right now.

That’s basically the way I went through the schedule, and including some unexpected losses against inferior teams came up with a number of wins that would still help us get to the playoffs :)

by Norsktroll on Nov 3, 2008 2:10 AM PST up reply actions  

We have a Big Three

BRoy
LMA
Rudy

That is our Big Three. Oden is too early in development. Rudy is the man right away. When Oden becomes The Man, watch out.

Rudy needs to start right now. Nate: Make it so.

btw love when Travis plays the 4 and Batum the 3. So quick. Don’t know how that works, but it does. Let’s experiment and have some fun!

There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.

by LaoTzu on Nov 3, 2008 3:20 AM PST reply actions  

This is what I think too..

I still don’t get all the emphasis on Oden when he’s unproven in the NBA and hasn’t really played. This is another post about a hypothetical imaginary Oden, that we all fantasize about. I feel like everyone is trying to put the cart before the horse. Oden has done nothing to make himself part of our “Big 3”, other than smile on TV. I love the guy, but you can’t put him in this context. If you notice from the list above, all members of each team’s “Big 3” have proven themselves. We have a “small/emerging 3” if you consider Rudy has our 3rd option right now. I think he’s “emerging” into the 3rd option.

Therefore, if you’re going to do an adequate comparison, Rudy deserves to be recognized in our trio, as Manu is above. This would be a better comparison, but still again limiting as he’s played few NBA games.

by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 3, 2008 4:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Nate will keep Rudy apart from the Big Three at least for a while.

Rudy have been trying to convince Nate to play running as the second unit likes to do. Nate listened to Rudy, didn´t agree with him but allowed to Rudy to give it a try playing against Golden State. The experiment didn´t work because Golden State played very seriously, Brandon and Webster were out, Rudy tried to gamble too much, etc. I think that Nate was happy when he said "we have a good tape for learning", or something similar, and he smiled. After the game Rudy said "Nate was right", he meant "I was wrong". The fact that Rudy tried to change the whole team offense concept after only one game, less than a month after he came to Portland, says a lot. The fact that they lost the game but didn´t seem overwhelmed or crushed says also something. Rudy needs to learn a lot from McMillan. It was a too early attempt and that´s why it won´t be the last one. Nate is learning something too, when he´s watching the second unit playing. Now the team needs to establish the first unit´s best game with Oden. Yes, our first unit does not run, allowing to the opponent´s first units to play 40 minutes, so we can´t take advantage of our bench. We don´t run even when we are losing by 10 points and there are only 2 minutes before the end. But that will change. Nate needs time to put all the pieces in their places. Too much changes. I trust on him.

Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16

by amlmart1 on Nov 3, 2008 5:03 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Nice post

Good insight from across the Atlantic.

"You're really making me feel good about myself, little man," says Oden as he starts dancing after scoring a goal. "You better come harder than that."

by BlueBooYay on Nov 3, 2008 7:13 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

So far...

… Rudy looks like the Blazers 2nd best player. Oden is still a question mark, and the early evidence on Aldridge is that he has failed to make himself a more efficient offensive player.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Nov 3, 2008 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

good point...

i hadn’t thought about this… we all think it’s aldridge/roy to automatically… i’d agree with you that rudy is 2, though i’d place him in a tie for 2nd with aldridge… the guy’s got shear talent and he’s shown a bit more consistency than LA

by hotstuffdb22 on Nov 3, 2008 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Echoes my thoughts, sort of

Though Oden’s only played a little over 10 minutes, in those 10 minutes it was obvious to the most casual observer that he changes everything in terms of how the other team plays against the Blazers. So when he DOES play he’s one of The Big Three.

My current line of thinking is that the NBA’s style of play (maybe it’s the current rules and “points of emphasis”) is to have a Big Three. Here’s the rub: even when one of your supposed Big Three is out you still need to have a Big Three. The team needs to know who becomes the Three when one of them are out – and it’s rarely going to be the injured player’s replacement.

When one of our Big Three are down, from what I’ve seen, Rudy is replacement Three. I think the team has not yet truly grasped this point and are trying to win games with a Big Two style of play – which coupled with all of their other issues (Martell out, inexperience, etc.) and the quality of their opponents is going to lead to a whole lot of losses. But hey, the team should probably be winless right now so I’ll take a 1 – 2 record.

Spanish Main: The point of departure for enormous wealth in the form of gold, silver, gems, spices, hardwoods, hides, alley-oops, assists and three pointers.

by LaughingJon on Nov 3, 2008 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply to LaoTzu

Spanish Main: The point of departure for enormous wealth in the form of gold, silver, gems, spices, hardwoods, hides, alley-oops, assists and three pointers.

by LaughingJon on Nov 3, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Our trio is not inferior to most of those other trios.

Get everyone healthy and play a three-on-three tournament. I’m positive that the Blazers finish no worse than mid-pack.

Dave, I think what you mean when you use the word guarantee is the confidence and attitude of expecting to win each game. We absolutely are not there yet. The Lakers, Suns, Hornets, and Celtics seem to be there so far. We will get there when GO finally stays healthy long enough to make a full recovery from his surgery and his stamina improves to the point that he can GO hard for 36 minutes a game.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Nov 3, 2008 9:25 AM PST reply actions  

...

How bout our international trio of

Sergio
Rudy
Nicolas

:)

"I just know that I can't get big, I can't eat whatever I want to. I have to eat healthy, I have to stay right, I have to stay involved and ... I have to be here at practice because you know what? I can play pretty quick."

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 3, 2008 9:49 AM PST reply actions  

The "European Union"

Or the “Franco-Spanish War” if things go sour ;-)

by Norsktroll on Nov 3, 2008 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

ha i like that

Euro Union…has a good ring to it.

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Nov 3, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Good insight...

I think some fans tend to get a little too self absorbed in their own team… I cringe every time someone refers to our “Big Three.” The Blazers haven’t proven enough yet to earn this title.

--

by CaptainSexyJacob on Nov 3, 2008 4:03 PM PST reply actions  

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