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Is Travis a "3" or a "4" ?

At the end of last year, when Nate indicated that Travis was going to have play exclusively at the "3" this year, some people assumed that meant that Travis was being handed the starting SF position. I always assumed it meant that there wouldn't be any minutes at the "4" this year. Mr 4th Quarter did a lot of his damage as a PF with LaMarcus playing Center. Travis is getting the opportunity to play some PF right now with Greg out, but eventually both Greg and Martell will be back. The big question is ...

 

 

Poll
Is Travis more effective as a PF (for the White Unit) than a SF ?
Yes, and this means that Channing will not get many minutes after Martell comes back
11 votes
Yes, but Channing will still back up LaMarcus, and Travis might be headed out the door by the trade deadline
34 votes
No, and that's why Nicolas will sit once Martell comes back
7 votes
No, but Nicolas is the SF of the future, and Travis has hit his ceiling
12 votes

64 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 31 comments

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Comments

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2 games and fans are falling for Batum

the kid is 19, a rookie, and everyone is proclaiming him our SF for the future based off of 2 games.

Batum is exceeding expectations right now, but lets not bring his hype to Telfair-level. The kid hasn’t done anything yet

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Nov 2, 2008 10:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

wait, is that 2 more decent showings than telfair ever really had?

does anyone remember which guard we had that had our bench/crowd counting down the shot clock on a nightly basis? (I don’t remember but I recall it being during the time telfair spent with us)

Batum is indeed exceeding expectations but his expectations were low, Telfairs were high and he never produced. The kid hasn’t done anything yet? The kid stepped up big when we needed him and gave us solid minutes, without him we’re seeing extended look at 3 guard rotations like the one everyone is harping on Nate for using last game for like 6 minutes.

Rookies his age often have trouble with the transition to the nba, and so do international players of any age, Batum’s hype doesn’t come from some New York playground, it comes from the fact that we’re looking for a player to fill a role, and he’s showing real potential at being able to fill it.

anyhow I really disagree with the telfair comparison

by contemnor on Nov 3, 2008 1:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he has only played 3 games!

what will you all say when he goes on a ten game drought of not providing anything?

he is a rookie, he will have good games and bad ones, but it is waaaay to early to proclaim him our SF of the future

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Nov 3, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

true no beef on that point, but I don’t think its unrealistic to proclaim him our future backup SF,
I believe it is safe to say that Travis is not the SF of the future, and Nico has not shown that he is not the SF of the future, and has actually shown skills that we do want at the position.

then I ask myself ‘would I rather watch Nico transition to the NBA, or Travis transition to the 3’.
given the above i’d rather watch Nico struggle, than Travis frustrate.

therefore I vote Yes, but Channing will still back up LaMarcus, and Travis might be headed out the door by the trade deadline. freeing up minutes for Nico at the backup SF… and I really find sergio/rudy/outlaw a scary perimeter defense unit

by contemnor on Nov 3, 2008 2:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nic is so far ahead of Trout right now in BBIQ

That it’s not even funny

In fact, Batum is the “anti-Outlaw” in all phases of the game

by two4larue on Nov 3, 2008 10:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You have to push the development along -- sort of like what KP did for LMA by ditching Zach for pennies on the dollar...

…………………………… Outlaw needs to go to make way for Batum and Rodriguez needs to go to make way for Bayless.

Then you see if those are THE GUYS.

FREE SERGIO -- Trade Him or Cut Him NOW!!!

by timbo on Nov 3, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What about Travis ?

Nicolas may be being “over hyped”, but that’s not the question. Is Travis effective as a SF ? I personally think that Travis is more effective as a PF. He creates more matchup problems at the “4”, where he can pull slower players out away from the basket. I think Travis doesn’t have the same type of advantage when he’s playing against quicker players, who are comfortable out on the wing.
Phil

by Philski on Nov 2, 2008 10:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i think youve got a good point

and i think travis is better off the bench.

ignacio

by ignacio on Nov 2, 2008 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, i just had to get that off my chest

I do think Travis is a natural SF adn better at the position. His length and athleticism help make up for his defensive deficiencies. He takes his shots from the wings or the top of the key, more like a traditional SF than PF. Travis’ jump and release on his shot is so high that I don’t think it makes much difference between a SF or PF guarding him.

You mentioned the benefit of him being able to pull defenders away from the basket, something Frye can do as well. And Frye has more strength and is built better to defend PFs.

If the team’s focus is supposed to be defense this year, I think Frye works better as our backup PF and Travis as the backup SF.
If we try and outscore our opponents (not likely) with a run and gun second unit, having the more athletic Travis Outlaw would make more sense.

Woof

by Charles Barkley McLovin on Nov 3, 2008 12:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll agree with this.

In particular I think he looks like a better fit on the second unit, whether he’s playing PF or SF. I really liked the lineup of Sergio, Rudy, Batum and Outlaw, matched with any combination of Joel / Aldridge / Frye.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 3, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There are some positives and negatives (mostly negatives) for putting him at either position

Trout is can create his shots more easily against slower PFs, and his shots tend to come from closer to the basket. Because of this, he scores more and does so more efficiently(though his efficiency is still below average) when he is playing at PF. On the other hand, Travis is a very poor rebounder for a PF and there is a significant negative impact on the Blazer’s team rebounding whenever Travis plays at PF (when Trout is at SF this isn’t an issue). On defense, Outlaw isn’t strong enough to stop the more physical PFs, but he also isn’t fast enough to keep up with the quicker SFs and will sometimes loose track of his man on the perimeter.

Overall, I think he is better off at the 4. Playing at the 3 decreases his ability to create his own shot and score, which is really the only good skill he has. Unfortunately for Travis, Channing Frye is also able to provide the same type of jump-shooting offense at the power forward position, except with better shot selection and a lot more rebounding. It’s hard to see where Outlaw’s minutes will come from when Oden and Webster return.

by trk on Nov 2, 2008 10:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Good question to pose Philski

I agree with you that he’s more effective, especially offensively, as a ‘4’. While he most likely would have defensive issues either way, at least if he was with the white unit he’d be able to play largely against the opponents backups as well.
You’re also correct that moving him to PF when both Marty and Greg are back will pose a hard decision for Nate. Ultimately, I believe either Frye or Travis will be moved by the deadline. My guess is since Nate is so high on Travis, that it’ll be Frye to be moved, especially since we’d risk losing him for no compensation (or have a huge cap hold) if he finishes the year here in PDX. I do think that Travis has a higher trade value, and if we were able to package him (and possibly Frye, Blake, and/or RLEC) to get a Devin Harris type PG, KP would most likely pull the trigger.

by lefty6283 on Nov 2, 2008 11:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Travis is a 6

He is a “tweener” that doesn’t defend well or have the BBIQ to play TEAM ball.
He can create his own shot but generally can’t set up the other players to get theirs.

That means his greatest value is as a “6th-man” coming off the bench in key spots.
That kind of value peaked last year when the Blazer didn’t have bench depth.

by spencerbutte on Nov 3, 2008 12:05 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Travis appears so far

(and we don’t have enough data yet) to still be playing better at the power forward position he played last year. He has two problems at small forward: driving past defenders and defending them himself. Both of those are eased when he plays bigger, slower fours. The problem is that he doesn’t help our rebounding enough playing power forward. I think you could eventually stick him in there with Oden and he’d be fine but the combination of Trout and Aldridge or Frye just leaves us boardless.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 1:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Addendum:

Travis’ greatest value could probably be as a swing forward playing both positions, provided he was good at both. That would be nifty. On the other hand he doesn’t seem to be entirely suited for either, which is a bad reason for swinging.

—Dave

by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 1:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Travis kind of reminds me of a mix between Carmelo Anthony and Hakim Warrick

Outlaw’s jumper is better than Warrick’s, but he has the shoot first mentality of a Carmelo Anthony, without showing a willingness to go to the rack as much as he should/could.

-Kyle

by lefty6283 on Nov 3, 2008 2:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Travis Outlaw ...

is a poor man’s Marvin Williams.

by AK1984 on Nov 3, 2008 2:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Another bad reason for swing is...

… it really pisses off the wife.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Nov 3, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's interesting that regardless of "3" or "4", Travis seems to be best off of the bench ...

I think that if LaMarcus had to miss a game, Channing would most definitely be inserted into the Black Unit to replace him, even if Travis was getting all of the minutes at “4” for the White Unit.

I do like having both Nicolas and Travis playing together. They’re long and athletic, and I think as long as Joel is in the game to take care of the defensive glass, then Travis and Nicolas can be effective together.

Travis is good at what he does, but I don’t think that what he does translates all that well to the Black Unit.

Phil

by Philski on Nov 3, 2008 8:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We just need to trade him pronto

cause there won’t be enough playing time for guys that want to play BOTH offense AND defense. Pritchard need to send out the message that defense comes first, if you don’t play defense you’re out. Batman and Spiderman are willing to play defense so they stay and play. Trout on the other hand should go.

by VinnyB on Nov 3, 2008 4:45 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

can't vote

The pre-determined qualifiers to a yes or no question leave me with no place to vote in your poll. My answer is “Yes”, he is better at PF. But as Dave pointed out, he doesn’t rebound well enough nor is a big enough body against some teams to warrant pushing aside “true” 4s on our roster. But his problems at the 3, especially defensivley, continue to hurt us I think. I like the Webster/Batrum combination at the small forward spot for the next few years, which leaves TO without a place in my hypothetical rotation.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Nov 3, 2008 8:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry ...

I meant Channing will continue to play PF for the White Unit. In any event, the second poll choice is the one that I think you are describing …

by Philski on Nov 3, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

nope

my answer is Yes, but that Nate will continue to play him at the 3 anyway.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Nov 3, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and I also throw in some of #4

that Nic/Martel are our SFs of the future, but that one came with a “no” answer.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Nov 3, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a 4 more than a 3, that's for sure.

All of his big games have come at the 4, and there have been some stinkers at the 3.

It’s time to trade him.

Brandon even endorsed Batum before the Lakers game because even he doesn’t like playing with Travis. Travis has reached his ceiling. His defense is what it is and won’t get better. His offense is pure jump shooting, which would be fine if he would see himself as an outlet who hits a shot as the shot clock winds down once in a while to help the offense. But that’s not his game… he wants to be a scorer, he doesn’t move the ball well, and he hurts the offense more than he helps it, not to mention, he’s the weakest defender in the rotation.

He’s the third best option on this team at the 4 and the 3. Time to let him go.

by ***Jason*** on Nov 3, 2008 9:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

a 4????!!

6’9", 210 lbs, and can’t defend anybody? If that’s your starting 4, you may as well throw in the towel.

Further, Travis hasn’t shown he understands what ‘team’ means and he’s not all that bright to begin with. I don’t know if I agree with trading him, depends on what you can get back, but all this trying to make him into something he’s not (Mr. Fourth Quarter – gag) is hampering both Travis and the team.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Nov 3, 2008 10:25 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

......................... And he ain't 6'9" either!!!
6’9", 210 lbs, and can’t defend anybody? If that’s your starting 4, you may as well throw in the towel.

FREE SERGIO -- Trade Him or Cut Him NOW!!!

by timbo on Nov 3, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Travis came into the league as a 3. He didn't ever do anything until

Zach hurt his hand and they put him in at the 4. That team was built around Zach offensively, and when Travis went in for him, he went off. Last year (Travis’ best by far), he played 44% of our minutes at the 4, and only 10% of our minutes at the 3. All of his games at the 3 were because of injury, and he blew. by-the-way, he gave up over 21 points per 48 minutes at both positions… you have to play some pretty good O if you’re playing that bad of D.

Check out this link if you want to see Travis’ production in black and white without all the ‘mr.4th quarter’ emotional b.s.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07POR9C.HTM

by ***Jason*** on Nov 3, 2008 11:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

and yeah, 6'9" is too small...

But it’s the same as Zach and Boozer, and he’s taller than Ike. Travis’ game is purely a jump shooters game anyway. All jab steps, fade aways, and jumpers. He rarely posts anybody up, or puts the ball on the floor, and when he does, he’s not exactly breaking people down with his superior ball handling skills. Yeah, he’s too small, but that’s why his game has adapted the way it has.

by ***Jason*** on Nov 3, 2008 11:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

6'9" is fine for a PF

The problem is that he is too thin and weak. If he could somehow put on 30-40 lbs of muscle without limiting his mobility, he would have good size for a PF. Because he is so thin opposing PFs can easily back him down in the post, and he has trouble boxing out for rebounds.

by trk on Nov 3, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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