The Word from Father Abbott
While you're basking in the post-game glow of that riotous smashing you can take time to consider the words of Henry Abbott from TrueHoop.
If you've missed the discourse in the last 24 hours, Henry wrote a piece on the readiness and effect of Greg Oden which you can read here. Our own Ben Golliver, followed by a legion of fans in the comments, responded in this post. Henry, having read those responses, would like to clear the air. He writes:
My whole post is in response to the notion that this is it. That he scored more than 20 and has thus arrived.
My thesis, and I think we'll all agree -- is that this ain't nothing yet. Yeah, he got his 20 and yada yada yada, but the team was pretty bad, and he was a big part of the reason why.
As I make clear, it's all just because he's a rookie, not because he's a bad player, or someone I love any less than the day we drafted him. It was great to see him last night. I'm happy. At stage one of a ten stage process, he's way ahead of the class.
But ladies and gentlemen, this is a player who will lead us to championships. He could be an MVP. On a night when he led the team, bumbling, to a loss to a miserable, depleted, starless Golden State team, he did not arrive. Please. You insult him with that talk.
That's like saying some aircraft carrier has arrived after it left the dock and made a loop of the shallow waters. This sucker is going to war, and it's going to win. You'll know when it has arrived, and it won't be some night when the team would have won with Joel Przybilla in his place.
My take on this whole thing is that Henry's explanation has merit, though I'm not sure I would have downplayed Oden's contributions thus far so thoroughly, nor do I perceive his effect on the team as detrimental. His effect on Lamarcus Aldridge right now may be detrimental, but that will pass. Henry's point is well-taken, though. We haven't seen anything yet. The stumbling and awkwardness that Henry himself cites proves the point. We are still seeing a semi-crippled version of Greg Oden. Yes, he looks far better than he did a few weeks ago but he's not at full strength or health yet. That makes me view his contributions in an even more positive light. He's no more than three-quarters of the man he will be, maybe as little as two-thirds, and he's already warping space and the game. Look at how many of his teammates are watching for opportunities to pass to him. Look at how many opponents are getting pushed aside as if they were nothing. Look at the opportunities opening up for other Blazers because defenses are scared of Oden's rebounds and dunks. Look at the boxscore. Look at the way Greg Oden being on the court affects everything.
Granted, not every effect is positive. The offense stalls a little when Greg can't find a shot. He's in the way defensively sometimes. The whole thing is new and we're adjusting. That was always going to happen. The negatives don't bother me a bit. Using Henry's language, we got the aircraft carrier built and launched. As long as it doesn't sink during the shakedown cruise everything is going to be OK. After it's fully operational things are going to be more than OK. That's what matters.
Let's face it...the team isn't close to being there yet. It wouldn't do much good for Oden to arrive early. After a rough start everything is back on course and progressing. Good enough for me.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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76 comments
Comments
Spelling note
do I perceive his affect on the team as detrimental
You want “effect” there, Dave. I know you like to fix this stuff.
Feel free to delete this after fixing it, if you want.
Good balanced approach, as usual, BTW.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Nov 19, 2008 11:29 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
way to go with the very obscure usage of affect vs effect
I guess we’ve got to find something wrong tonight
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Nov 19, 2008 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dave says he likes to fix stuff like that
I asked him once. When it’s on the main page, he says he wants it right.
Sorry if it bugs you. I suggested he delete my comment after doing so. It’s not as if I want bonus points for it.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Nov 19, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was complimenting your eagle eye
I’m impressed, I don’t mind people politely helping other learn from mistakes. And you certainly did that.
by rmcdougall on Nov 19, 2008 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good eye yourself
I was complimenting him. And then I complimented the Blazers. I wanted to mention to someone around here that reiterate is redundant and the word he should use is iterate. Yeah, I’m a fan of the occasional grammar policing.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Nov 19, 2008 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oops
Sorry for reading you wrong. I don’t actually like to do grammar policing, but I almost always see this stuff. One of the curses of being me.
Too often, grammar policing comes across as arrogant, but it isn’t necessarily. A person isn’t a better person, or even a smarter person, just because they happen to be skilled in that particular area.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Nov 19, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
rulers of the world
are not “cursable”. I’m pretty sure you are immune to all bad omens.
by premthegrem on Nov 20, 2008 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I had an accounting professor who graded an F to any paper misusing effect and affect
So I learned the difference! Not a trivial difference at all.
when you’ve been in a dry land even a little dew looks inviting —Dave
"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." - Tom Landry
by lee3022 on Nov 20, 2008 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i hope he doesn't delete it
people mess that one up all the time, and maybe others will read your comment and gain insight. nice catch.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 19, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oden affected the game
He also had a nice effect on the Blazers post defense, and effected a big improvement in their rebounding.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Nov 20, 2008 7:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Used it 12 times, blew it twice. I always have to watch myself on that one.
—Dave
by Dave on Nov 20, 2008 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed you used it right, too
My big Achilles’ heel is pronunciations, which never appears on the Internet.
That means people who don’t actually know me think I’m really smart, but people who talk to me think I’m a blooming idiot.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Nov 20, 2008 12:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
EE
One of my roommates is an Electrical Engineer (meaning programmer)
He’s really smart, but does a lot more math than say… play-watching. So he suffers pronunciation problems.
He once called a kiosk a “koisk”. Nobody could figure out what he was saying.
by rmcdougall on Nov 20, 2008 12:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Henry to be like the Sports Guy or anything...
..but it’s really disappointing for a Blazer fan (on a national scale no less) was that negative about one of our star players after a big loss.
It’s not like a lot of fans have been yelling “ODEN HAS ARRIVED!!”. Everyone here has been, at best, cautiously optimistic.
The negativity may have been technically correct, but overblown and really unnecessary.
by Timmay! on Nov 19, 2008 11:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
He hasn't "Not Arrived"
I think we may be reading a binary into this. We hear Abbot say that Oden hasn’t arrived, and we have to conclude that therefore Oden must have been broken in the mail.
I think what Henry is actually saying is that he has neither arrived, nor proven that he isn’t here yet. Maybe we’ve gotten an email from UPS saying our shipment is in Idaho, and has begun laying waste to the towns there. Expect Oden in 2-3 business days.
by rmcdougall on Nov 19, 2008 11:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Idaho always gets destroyed in analogies
by premthegrem on Nov 19, 2008 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly right
Henry is saying that Greg is such a massive presence that he has to come in multiple parcels, and we’re still trying to get the first installment in the door and put in place.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
by jscot on Nov 19, 2008 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder who has to sign for these things
I think what we just got is the FedEx Ground portion of the package.
I can’t wait for the FedEx Air portion to come.
by rmcdougall on Nov 19, 2008 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I'd call a soft-landing retraction
But in Henry’s defense, the ESPN.com editors didn’t help him by making the sub-headline or whatever it’s called say “…there could be cause for concern.”
His own people characterized his analysis as there being a reason to be concerned about Oden’s contribution to the team. Maybe that doesn’t capture the essence of his thoughts, but it’s the first thing people read who are linking in from the ESPN/nba page.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 19, 2008 11:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"Deck"
and ya. I don’t see this as there being cause for concern, rather that we have more to hope for than “a decent outing in a loss”
by rmcdougall on Nov 19, 2008 11:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT
Was there a Blazers Edge Infiltration fanpost a second ago, or is it just really late here on the East?
by rmcdougall on Nov 19, 2008 11:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yes there was
it seems to be gone now. I’m not sure why. I think it was a valid post and I spent time making a reply so that sucks.
"It’s a good ol’ fashioned Rip City beat down!"
by Magnum on Nov 19, 2008 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It turned (somewhat) into an attack on some of the BEdge faithful, which is not the point. But yes, there is something to be said for playing nice when outside of our own homes.
by rmcdougall on Nov 19, 2008 11:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see you also like the "ol' fashioned Rip City beat down" quote
I told my roommates about it.
They’re bio-chem / math majors from northern Massachusetts. They didn’t get it.
by rmcdougall on Nov 19, 2008 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What happened now?
I didn’t delete anything.
—Dave
by Dave on Nov 20, 2008 12:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The poster can choose to delete a post, can't he?
That might have been what happened. Since that’s the likeliest scenario, I guess I can respect his decision and leave it at that…?
by rmcdougall on Nov 20, 2008 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing whoever authored the fanpost decided to delete it
The gist was about BEdgers commenting on Blogabull. For the most part we were positive over there, but a couple users thought mild troll comments would be amusing.
by shralpster on Nov 20, 2008 12:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was over at BaB tonight
and they still don’t know I’m from over here. I made a few slights, but they were much harsher on themselves than we were.
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 20, 2008 12:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad I didn't join in
I was sleeping though.
by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 2:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sleeping
don’t let the tropics turn you into a lazy son of a gun
by Bust a Bucket on Nov 20, 2008 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on the night shift
At the end of a long day it’s gonna be okay
On the night shift
by tominhawaii on Nov 21, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They have a few
ubersensitive folk over there. I was taking flack for my mere presence. And that’s why the PacNoWe rocks! Can anybody imagine somebody coming from another blog, asking polite, respectful questions, and being greeted here with anything less than open arms?
by BlazersOrBust on Nov 20, 2008 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oden's Arrival
I don’t think anyone here doubts that Oden is going to be a monster. Here’s the problem I have with Henry’s post.
After hearing and reading all the Sam Bowie reactions to Oden (and somewhere inside starting to maybe, just a little bit, wondering if they were right) i wanted to hear someone say “You know what, I was wrong, " or maybe "Oden was ok, I might of been mistaken.” Instead nothing. Greg had some great games over the weekend. Someone other than a Blazer fan say “ODEN WILL BE OK.”
Instead, the only thing I read is from Henry is Oden hurt the team. Oden caused the Blazers to lose. What?!? Did anyone see him change every shot that came his way the other day? He didn’t play as well last night true. But someone, somewhere in the media please say something positive.
by Jblaze on Nov 20, 2008 12:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This reminds me of politics
Because both sides are saying that “the media” never gives their side a fair shake.
We don’t see any Mea Culpas, but it’s not fair to say he’s Bill Russel reincarnated (Bill Russel normal-incarnated might want to have a word with me now). We’re still in a middle ground.
by rmcdougall on Nov 20, 2008 12:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey you stole my name! LOL
G.O. for R.O.Y.
Vote for our All-Stars:
http://www.nba.com/allstar2009/asb/eng/landing.jsp?cid=127
by j-blaze on Nov 20, 2008 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Middle-schmiddle
Yeah, I agree. He’s awkward, he looks like he’s out of shape(though I’m not sure how out of shape he really is. He just has that look), often not set or balanced properly, and a number of other things.
However, I think for the first time we can truly say, that “you know what? The kids’s going to be ok.”
by Jblaze on Nov 20, 2008 12:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The more I see, the more I get what he was trying to say...
I just had a hard time understanding the tone of the post. If he wanted to emphasize how much room Oden has to grow, the post would have read different. Different words. Or, I could have misread his point. It happens.
by PoliSam on Nov 20, 2008 1:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
"Not arrived" ?
If he means that GO will get better, then Yes.
If he means his stats will be better, then Yes.
If Henrys says he’s awkward & out of shape, then
he hasn’t “Arrived”.
What has arrived is a BEAST, a MAN-CHILD, a
BIG HORSE that we can ride to championships.
I think the arrival part is getting the start of his career
off with not only good statistical showings, but the
secret part that “has arrived”, is the pure physical dominant
force the Blazers have in the paint. No more intimidation
by the K-Mart’s, the Boozer’s, etc. Oh they will still score,
dunk and even swat GO sometimes, but the BEAST has
been ARRIVED. Domination of the paint, increased foul
trouble for the opponent, lower FG ’s for opponents, better
FG and rebounding for the Blazers.
IT’S G.O. TIME !!!
COINCAST SUCKS !!!! GO BLAZERS !!!!!!!!!!
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on Nov 20, 2008 2:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Keep the faith, Walk!
BendBroadband just signed to carry ComcastSportsNet…..hopefully Charter or DirectTv will be next (and soon)
"Fez, the foundation of any good relationship is three little words: I-don't-know.
What're you doing? I don't know.
What're you thinking about? I don't know.
Who's that under you? I don't know. "
-Michael Kelso
by 92wastheyear on Nov 20, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I called bendbroadband just now to sign up Thanks for the tip
here is what they said:
Cable TV has secured Blazer games 11/2/0/08 – it will be 2 weeks or so before they actually can get on air so no viewing yet. Cost:upgrade to preferred package cost $47.95 (increase $30.00 over current minimal TV now) to be available in two weeks channels 39 and 40 and 640 HD. They did get a reduced cost from Comcast for their negotiating efforts.
The two weeks apparently is due to technical problems to resolve to effect the new coverage. I gathered that part of the issue it hat Bend Broadband will not use Comcast for non-Blazer games except for Duck games and a few selected other events. So they are splitting the programming with all Blazer games on channel 39 and 640 HD and other events when selected on channel 40.
when you’ve been in a dry land even a little dew looks inviting —Dave
"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." - Tom Landry
by lee3022 on Nov 20, 2008 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Ole' Mr. Abbott
I don’t think he really said anything wrong. He was just trying to explain why Oden looks rusty using stats and stuff. I have to agree with rmcdougall, it does seem like politics. People are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Why just about a week ago, Sergio’s agent was looking for a trade. Look how quickly that blew over.
by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 2:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
impossible not to be excited
The tone of Abbott’s article was not “you ain’t seen nothing yet” but more of “stats belie a very raw player”. I think both are true, but you have to wonder why he chose the latter.
Oden IS very raw. He has limited offensive moves other than dunking, defensively he seems confused out there at times, and he looks out of shape.
But the stats are nonetheless telling. Given the fact that he is so raw, his stats tell us about his raw ability and potential. He is still contributing everywhere. If we drop the Lakers game (which is reasonable, since he played most of the game hurt), and scale up to 36 minutes a game, he’d be averaging about 20 points, 13 boards, 5 blocks! which is beyond my expectations for a guy who is raw, six games into his career, and coming off of major knee surgery. Of course, he’d also average 5 fouls (and 3 turnovers) at this point, which means we’d probably have trouble giving him 36 minutes at this point.
Abbott’s analysis are as misleading as the 22-10 stat. Abbott’s turnover rate assumes that it is all Oden and nothing to do with the fact that Oden has been coming off the bench. He focuses on Greg not having a positive impact on the GS game (I agree with him) but fails to mention the incredible spark he played in the NO and Minnesota games.
There is nothing at all disconcerting about a 20-year old rookie being raw. Dwight Howard is STILL raw, and he dominates nonetheless. No one would argue that Greg is dominating already, but other than his health, everything we’ve seen about Oden tells me he will dominate and dominate soon.
by keephopealive on Nov 20, 2008 3:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
He'll dominate this year
He’s so ugly and improving rapidly. He’s so ugly and is putting up ridiculous stats. He’s so ugly and we HAVENT seen anything yet.
I stand by “since shaq” comparisons. This guy is going to eat all centers in the league up for years to come.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Nov 20, 2008 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2 things
1 – I always read the site, just joined today. I am happy that Oden is a Blazer because you guys (Blazers fans) are the best bloggers out there and I love reading your different takes on him.
2 – As a Pacers fan I would love to thank you for Jarret Jack. He plays so hrd and aggressive I love it. How do you guys feel about Bayless for Rush/Jack now? Any opinions? Thanks
by captain flitzy on Nov 20, 2008 7:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
I always enjoyed Jarret’s enthusiam/aggressiveness as that was something we lacked at times last year. A lot of people over here dwelled on his turnover rate and how he struggled on the fast break. I think the jury is still out on the trade as Bayless hasn’t really had a chance to show his worth but his potential seems tremendous. I don’t think Jack has that much upside, plus it has opened up playing time for Sergio Rodriguez and Rudy Fernandez which ultimately will make us better.
Glad you are enjoying Jack. I wish him well.
"I saw him in the face" Sergio's quote on the latest alley-oop to Rudy.
by blazermaniac32 on Nov 20, 2008 7:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I miss Jack's butt and cute eyebrows
by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 7:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to focus on both at the same time?
(don’t really want to know)
when you’ve been in a dry land even a little dew looks inviting —Dave
"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." - Tom Landry
by lee3022 on Nov 20, 2008 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack was an awsome guy
loved him.
The only thing that drove most of us crazy was the fact he never knew where the baseline was. It felt like once a game at the end of the season he’d step out of bounds.
Apart from that the guy has a great attitude, is a hard worker, and I liked the guy. I really hope he does well over there.
Jack didn’t fit our team. Unfortunate but true. Bayless isn’t producing like some of us have expected. Actually he’s really sucking it up in my opinion. Then again, most point guards struggle for a few years. It’s a challenging position. I’m okay with the trade because Rush seemed like an awesome kid, but there’s no way he’d play behind Roy and Rudy.
Bayless may not ever play, but he’s behind Blake and Sergio and that gives him a much greater chance. He’s also athletic and explosive and if he can get it going, that’s something we’ll need for our team.
I was sorry to see Jack go, but I think almost all of us were expecting it at some point.
Glad you love him and I hope he tears it up over there.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Nov 20, 2008 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I miss Jack's fire too
He has a lot of heart.
by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 8:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ratbastird, you forgot....
the jump passes and shoddy fast breaks as well. He was a decent player bud didn’t look like he’d develop into one that had a place on this team. We’re perpetually in search of our next great point guard and Jack’s ceiling is below that.
by shralpster on Nov 20, 2008 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
Jack is a gamer. Unselfish guy who plays hard, and always will be. A good utility guard – may never develop into a good starter, but he’s a guy most teams would like to have.
I think it was a good trade for both teams. The Blazers brass loved Bayless and he was their best case scenario on draft night. I think his lack of PT speaks more to the Blazers depth than any kind of failure on his part. Rookie PGs who have mainly played SG in their prior lives and should be sophomores in college typically do not get playing time for deep teams with playoff aspirations.
Plus, Sergio really has played well this year, and he has undeniable chemistry with Rudy. I doubt KP and company are having any doubts about Bayless anytime soon. If he’s still buried on the end of the bench next year, that’s when the worries will start.
At the same time, though, it was a solid move for the Pacers – Rush and Jack can both contribute right away for you guys, and Bayless wouldn’t be a great fit next to TJ Ford (as opposed to Brandon Roy). Both teams win. Warm fuzzies all around.
Glad to hear Indy is supporting Greg. Ohio is backing him too. It’s a midwest-northwest alliance.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
by KP Corleone on Nov 20, 2008 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Jack
and its great that you guys can appreciate him. He plays his butt off every night. He was very much expendable for the Blazers because his role was mostly as a bench scorer— a role Rudy Fernandez does better (and without nearly as many turnovers).
I think the Bayless trade was great for the Blazers— I still see Bayless as a substantial contributor down the road, even if he never becomes the starting PG. His upside (in my opinion) dwarfs that of either Rush or Jack (and none of those 3 would be getting much PT for the Blazers as currently constructed).
Good luck to the Pacers- I love Danny Granger and I keep voting for him for the ASG.
Boomshakalaka
by jksnake99 on Nov 20, 2008 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His upside (in my opinion) dwarfs that of either Rush or Jack (and none of those 3 would be getting much PT for the Blazers as currently constructed).
If Jack was still here, he’d be getting 15-20 minutes a night.
I’m really glad the Pacers are doing well with him though. Great guy, hard-nosed player. Just too mistake-prone for my taste, and Nate inadvertently polarized the fans via the Jack-Sergio debate.
by Timmay! on Nov 20, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about McBob?
Is he lost in all this Blazers/Pacers trade talk? That might have been the steal of the century! Just wait…he will be great.
by Mallardvalue on Nov 20, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
McRoberts
McRoberts, even though he has two left feet and seems like a huge geek, his first game for Indiana was unreal, he actually won player of the game for the TV Network with a couple quick steals that led to 7 points in transition, some blocks and really just hustled his ass off. He’s a little buried on the bench and when Dunleavy comes back will be more so…but he was impressive in his few games with a ton of energy and im happy he has gotten some time. And yes, Jarret Jack has stepped out of bounds already. And no, it wasn’t when he was leaving the game. And yes, he did have the ball at the time.
by captain flitzy on Nov 21, 2008 6:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Reading all the responses to henry's post
I think that
1.) People aren’t really reading it because they’re sensitive to critic
2.) People ARE reading it but are pulling away very different meaning.
I find the different interpretations fascinating.
I read it as:
Oden put up big numbers. Some might say he’s arrived because big numbers are shiny. They are shiny but he’s also looking raw out there. Big lug hulk smash minus grace. So, he hasn’t arrived yet because we all know that the hulk wasn’t just big and strong as a 500 foot giant, but he was also nimble as an alley cat and we’re not seeing that yet. When we see that, then we’ll see the real Oden minus the rust.
Also, he’s not flowing with his team yet. He’s new.
In other words, he’ll arrive and you’ll see the “real” oden when that rust is gone in a few more weeks and his team figures out how to play with him without staring in awe and pretty bouncing backboards.
That was my take.
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Nov 20, 2008 7:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
probably the right take
But it is still the same old up and down ride that everyone will take Oden on…..fan perspective is what it is…media perspective is what it is……the play of oden will always be speculative until after the next game is over…..Even after the season is over, there will be speculation…..
The spotlight is on his play and he will not be able to turn it off …..even if they get to and win a championship, it will be on him…..
just like the poor play, of all, in the GS game…the spotlight is still on Greg for not being able to get his team a win…..(He was not the difference in turning a loss into a win in other words)……he’s an NBA # 1 draft pick that comes preloaded with hype that is much bigger than his own physical stature….
He is the reason for the extra national TV coverage for the Blazers and the rest of the team is a throw in…… (narrow, but probably true IMO) . Most true basketball understanding, tells us something different (the team shares the load and will ultimately determine success or failure ) ……..But all the players (and him) can do, is go out and play the games and let the hype and speculation fall into history…………. the future will come, but not without visions of where and how the path will go and end up…… or how long or how wide it will be….
All eyes are on the new big kid in town….( they were on Rudy for a while, but that has tapered off0 …soon Oden will blend in some and there will be (and should be a different focus) for the fans and to some extent the media……The spotlight will still be on Greg, just fanned out some to allow the rest of the team to share it…..
by 67 on Nov 20, 2008 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's all about pespective
Different people are going to take different things away from the article. I thought he was a little harsh on Greg at times, but thats ok. I’d rather have that than the babying we saw earlier this season. What I got from it was we haven’t seen nuthin yet, he effected the game negatively (based off +/-) but I think mos’t would disagree. I think he did have a possitive effect on the game. Sure we didn’t win, LMA is having trouble, etc. But these are the things we have to get out of the way now for the greatness to come later. I know I’m lovin’ it.
G.O. for R.O.Y.
Vote for our All-Stars:
http://www.nba.com/allstar2009/asb/eng/landing.jsp?cid=127
by j-blaze on Nov 20, 2008 8:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I have to smile
I have to smile because we are all Blazer fans and I think we are just getting a little distracted by semantics and personal definition. I personally think it’s too early to define Oden as “arrived”, just as it was too early to define Oden as a bust a 2 weeks ago. I agree with Henry Abbot personally on that issue.
I smile because the reaction many fans have is so emotional and genuine. I’m not sure this happens in any other city or with any other team. It’s like the tide and the rip tide. Fans that are upset at the mere idea that Oden hasn’t arrived yet simply have a different personal definition of “arrrived” and I think that’s okay, even if my definition is different. I think a lot of fans have been rabid to see Oden. The desire to see him on the court and succesful has been building for over a year and the “false” start with the foot sprain in game one just made it worse. So you have a collective sigh of relief when Oden starts posting double doubles, and for many fans their personal definition is that Oden has arrived. So Henry Abbot, or anyone for that matter, points out that Oden still has a ways to go, is still developing and by their personal definition of “arrival” in the context of expectation, Oden hasn’t arrived and it creates a minor uprising. I smile because we are all on the same side here. It’s been such a long road for most fans to see Oden as a functioning Blazer that I think we are all a little thin skinned about criticism real or imagined.
Maybe the clearer definition is that Oden has arrived as a player in the N.B.A. with the caveat that we haven’t seen anything yet? I do expect a game in the future, that Oden simply dominates from wire to wire, or a battle against an established superstar counterpart that Oden get’s the better of, and then maybe that would be the moment that I say “The Mr. Greg Oden” has arrived. For now by my personal definition Oden’s playing in the N.B.A. and playing very well considering, and IMO that’s something to smile about.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Nov 20, 2008 8:42 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
very well said
it is your own personal view, but likely shared by others, including me,,,,
by 67 on Nov 20, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Greg Oden, where posters happen.
by ratbastird on Nov 20, 2008 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would be interesting...
to see a post, by Abbott or anyone really, about when players “have arrived.”
When was it for LeBron? That night against Detroit in the conference Finals, maybe?
When was it for Kobe? Before or after Shaq left?
speaking of, when for Shaq?
Duncan?
Jordan?
by LicketyBrindle on Nov 20, 2008 9:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good point
What about Dave and Ben?
by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You get into the point of different levels of "arriving"
Both Duncan and Jordan were all-NBA selections their rookie years. Kobe was a genuine force in the league before Shaq left, and Shaq was certainly a dominant player when he helped lead Orlando to the finals even if he got dismantled by Hakeem there.
I think the issue for Henry isn’t when these guys “arrive” as in fulfill their potential, but when they hit the scene as dominant NBA forces. For all of those guys, it was well before any of those specific games or feats. Before LBJ’s Detroit game, we knew he was LBJ, but that night may have signified him “arriving” on a historic all-time great level. The difference between say MJ and ’Nique or Hakeem and Mutombo. Before, Lebron had certainly “arrived” in some sense, but with that performance came out as a guy who could be the best all-time SF when his career is all said and done.
In the context, though, I think Henry’s waiting for Greg to start consistently putting up 16-20 points, 9-10 boards, and 2-3 blocks per game while completely altering opponents’ game plans and putting us on his back down the stretch in a couple games before labeling him as “arrived” as a force in the nba. He’s getting there and he’s close, but you have to have a pretty big homer view of things to think he’s already at that point.
by Royster on Nov 20, 2008 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the benchmark is
when they are making their teammates better. That’s always talked about as the mark of a great, not just good, player.
Oden is (curiously) making Pryz better.
But he’s making LMA worse. They’ll work that out.
He will make the whole team better. Batum will get more steals, Outlaw/Webster/Rudy/Roy etc. more threes, LMA less double teams. But that’s only marginally happening as of yet.
But it could happen – should happen – this year.
by LicketyBrindle on Nov 20, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I've noticed the Pryz improvement
I think Joel just knows he’ll have less time on the floor and he doesn’t need to worry about fouls, so he’s just going after everything more aggressively and becoming just an absolute force on the defensive end.
Watching the games, though, I don’t think it’s Oden that’s affecting LA, so much as just a problem with LA right now. He bricked almost every jumper he took against Chicago, most of them wide open. And given that he put up 13 shots in the 26 minutes or so he played, it’s not like Oden was taking that many shots from him. Lamarcus needs to find his shot again, because right now, he’s just not helping on offense in the halfcourt.
Like I said about Greg, though, he’s close and we’ll see him get it completely together by the end of the season. I think he’ll still be able to improve and hit that “Shaq in 2000” level in future seasons, but I definitely believe he’ll be considered one of the tpo 3 or 4 centers in the league by season’s end, and if that isn’t “arriving” on some level, I’m not sure what is.
by Royster on Nov 20, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that LMA's current struggles may have nothing to do with GO
I’m reminded of a stretch of games last season when the Blazers played a lot of road games & back to backs and LMA couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. Then he got a couple days rest and his shot returned like magic.
My belief is that LMA is more affected by lack of rest than most of his teammates. Why, I have no clue. But I think he’ll be fine after this next rough stretch. In the meanwhile, the Blazers have other weapons—as they demonstrated last night.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on Nov 20, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
who said, "He has arrived."
Henry is just responding to all of the media hype…they are the ones that were saying “He is a failure”, then quickly saying “No is isn’t! He has arrived”.
As fans, we are more patient because most of do not get paid for ‘breaking the story’…and we have a great moderator in Dave that helps us to remember to be patient.
by clonigro on Nov 20, 2008 1:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well I don't know about you guys
but to me, he HAS ARRIVED! But in the since that I have been waiting to see him play as a PTB since the lottery. This guy is raw but is still a force,. Who else could play as rusty as he is still and be as big of a factor as he is. We have something special, and we have no idea what this kid could become. To me he has unlimited potential.
G.O. for R.O.Y.
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by j-blaze on Nov 20, 2008 1:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
is it our responability as fans
to ensure that the guilty parties eat their share of the crow?
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
by faith on Nov 20, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ok, I know I've already posted here
but I just went back and read the TrueHoop article. And it kind of ticked me off.
My whole post is in response to the notion that this is it. That he scored more than 20 and has thus arrived.
Holy cow, who in their right mind honestly thinks that a 20 year old playing in their fourth NBA game, is playing as well as they’re ever going to play, showing you everything they’re ever going to have to show? Who, exactly, are is he correcting? Greg Oden is playing well, but hey newsflash: he’s going to improve. Thanks for that.
In other news, the sky is blue. And hey is it cold in Minnesota today? Guess what? It’s going to get even colder.
/vent
by LicketyBrindle on Nov 20, 2008 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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