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Another Reason Cap Space in 2009 Could Be Important

You can't swing a cat around the NBA these days without hitting somebody passionately discussing the jockeying for position in the Free Agent Wars of 2010.  The list of players possibly coming due that summer is impressive, including:

Paul Pierce

LeBron James

Dirk Nowitzki

Yao Ming

Kobe Bryant

Dwyane Wade

Michael Redd

Amare Stoudemire

Chris Bosh

 

No wonder fans and media alike are amped up about the possibilities.  No wonder some General Managers are apparently trying to clear space to be competitive that summer.  There’s just one problem with the whole thing.

 

It may be too late.

 

First of all, you have to admit that talent of the kind that’s on that list seldom goes anywhere.  There’s a reason for that.  Their teams are going to open the pocketbook wider than wide.  The Golden Rule of roster management, borne out by some of this summer’s shenanigans, is that you never, ever, EVER let your most valuable stars get anywhere near free agency if you can help it.  Chances are you won’t lose them, but how many GM’s are willing to risk their jobs, reputations, and teams on any kind of chance that can be avoided?  That means you’re going to see a volley of extensions offered and signed well before the hot months of 2010 roll around.  If you don’t see a star signed, then there has to be some doubt in the mind of the team whether they can successfully retain him.  If that doubt slips into outright worry and/or certainty (as indicated by a player or his agent) then the team is not going to let the guy walk for nothing.  They’ll do everything they can to convince him to commit, but if he won’t they’ll be looking to trade him before the free agency period rolls around.

 

That’s exactly where the cap space in 2009 comes in.  If there’s any doubt as to the future of one of these players sometime during that summer or as the trading deadline approaches, somebody is going to need a trading partner.  The more flexible your cap situation is, the more solid of a trading partner you become.   People who will come up with cap space in 2010 don’t count for these purposes.  You need it in 2009 to do a deal with a team in peril of losing its star.

 

Am I saying the Blazers are going to get a major superstar in 2009?  It’s highly, highly doubtful...a far-fetched scenario.  But then any of these players moving is pretty far-fetched.  Nevertheless, when you read all of these stories about people clearing space for LeBron in 2010 keep in mind that if that threat is at all real, it’s certainly possible that LeBron’s move won’t be in 2010 at all.  If he or any of these players were discontented with their current teams, were willing to stay with a Western contender, and Kevin Pritchard valued them, that move would be more likely to happen a year earlier.

 

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

1 recs  |  Comment 55 comments

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sing it with me: “one of these people doesn’t belong” …. MICHAEL REDD… i will rank the likelihood of each of these guys coming to portland…

Paul Pierce … 0.1%
LeBron James… 0.1%
Dirk Nowitzki… 1.0%
Yao Ming… 0.1%
Kobe Bryant… 0.0%
Dwyane Wade… 0.1%
Michael Redd… 1.0%
Amare Stoudemire… 0.1%
Chris Bosh… 0.1%

by Ben. on Nov 17, 2008 12:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

and the logic/explanation above is spot on.

Chances are you won’t lose them, but how many GM’s are willing to risk their jobs, reputations, and teams on any kind of chance that can be avoided?

so true

by Ben. on Nov 17, 2008 12:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Correction

LeBron James… 0.2%

If there is any inkling inside of LeBron that wants to win 5 or 6 championships in the next 10 years, he will have to consider Portland.

Plus I’m pretty sure Greg Oden is actually LeBron’s dad. Don’t ask me how, just accept it.

by ostateblazer on Nov 17, 2008 1:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

09 Free Agency

Allen Iverson… Could be his last opportunity to win a ring. He has never been on a team this talented…

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've wondered about that

If he wants a championship instead of boatloads of money, and is willing to take a 2 year contract with a 3rd year team option (we’ve been seeing contracts like that), KP might just pull the trigger on that. I’ve thought about a fanpost about that one.

Would be interesting to have AI coming off the bench on our first two championship teams.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 18, 2008 12:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How sick would it be to look at the court and see

Rudy, Roy, Lebron, Aldridge and Oden down at the court.. Dammit.. why do I do this to myself

by Stegie33 on Nov 17, 2008 1:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking..

CP3 should probably just mozy his way on over to Portland too. Then we won’t even need a USA Basketball program… we can just send the Blazers.

by ostateblazer on Nov 17, 2008 1:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Lebron came.

We wouldn’t have all our players. It would be a trade.

It is nice to dream though.

Giving [Batum] the freedom to go for steals is going to be like giving a redneck six boxes of ammo and a quarter mile of empty Bud cans. - Dave

by Cablinasian on Nov 17, 2008 9:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Me thinks

Roy, Oden & Aldridge are not the table when it comes to trades. He wants to keep the core group intact. I may even go as far to say that Sergio & Rudy are not on the table either. Can we couple Outlaw/Martell in a deal to seal up our SF position? Coupling Blake/Bayless would give the team who gets them a nice present/future package. Frye could also be on the block, I am sure someone could use his skills. Of course RLEC will help. Lets just cross our fingers that Miles doesn’t play this year. Should set us up for optimum cap space…

For Trade:
Outlaw
Martell
Frye
Blake
Bayless
RLEC

+

Whatever draft picks we have to give them.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 11:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Relative

If you’re talking about trading for e.g. LeBron James or Chris Paul, then I can tell you with 100% certainty that all our players would be available.

by pualo on Nov 17, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

...

No chance Roy goes anywhere, no matter who we are trading for.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LeBron is way superior player to Roy or Aldridge.

A player of his caliber isn’t had for Bayless, Rudy, Sergio, Outlaw, or Martell. He will be one of the best players ever when all is said and done.

Giving [Batum] the freedom to go for steals is going to be like giving a redneck six boxes of ammo and a quarter mile of empty Bud cans. - Dave

by Cablinasian on Nov 17, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

...

Our team would be completely crippled. Removing Roy, the leader figure would tear our team apart. I guarantee you he wouldn’t be on the table.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 4:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Regardless

Roy would not be on the table. Aldridge… Probably. But there are other ways to acquire him… With Pritchard’s skills he could put us in a position to sign/trade for him. We have the assets.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maximization of Talent (Summer 09)

At the end of this next summer, we’re going to be out of do-overs. We will be completely out of the window of having a big advantage on every other team in the NBA. KP is great, but with all the high picks, and extra picks, and cap space, he’s only got so much leverage to work with. That is why by the start of next season, we’ll have to have cashed in all of our chips.

The best time to do the type of thing you’re talking about would be at the February trade deadline in 2010. And by that time, we would have risked far too much if we hadn’t already signed our key FA. I don’t think a team would be willing to give up on one of those franchise guys (Redd excluded) with an entire year still left to convince them to stay. Once we reach the midway point of that season however, things could go any direction. I’m guessing there could be at least 1 rent a player scenario, but we’re honestly not in a position to rent a player (we’re trying to build a dynasty).

It is far more likely that we’ll either trade for the guy this season, or end up taking one of these guys from this weak 2009 crop. Any early favorites as far as potential available FA’s this year?

by as11osu on Nov 17, 2008 1:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying.....

that we can trade Travis Outlaw for Paul Pierce and Steve Blake for Dwayne Wade? I think I would be OK with that.

by einman77 on Nov 17, 2008 2:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Out of this list, I want Chris Bosh to team up with Greg

But it won’t happen even if we empty the bench. He is too valuable, and Toronto will rather risk losing him in free agency. I also wanted Danny Granger, but he extended. Now I’m happy with whatever players KP can attract. But I highly doubt it will be a superstar. A star, maybe, but not another big big player. Unless Kobe gets frustrated this season and pulls his ETO…

by Norsktroll on Nov 17, 2008 5:52 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

My guess is that we let

RELC expire and use the money for signing our core. We make a couple minor trades to deal with the inevitable glut at SF and possibly PG if a great opportunity arises. Other than that, I see little else. We already have our superstars and I doubt Kevin would trade our young superstars for a vet superstar…wouldn’t make sense.

I think all this possible trade talk will end up be very anti-climatic; similar to most new Hollywood films.

Peace

by ColoradoBlazerFan on Nov 17, 2008 7:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

LeBron

Isn’t exactly old, friend.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is a topic I have been thinking about. I am wondering if KP is not setting us up for this summer but really for the deadline in the 2009-2010 season. We could still have a very solid team and have a shot at one of the superstars. Would Cleveland take Roy and some additional cap space to give up Lebron if they thought he was sure to bolt? They would then be so far under the cap that they could sign two top players in addition to keeping Roy. The risk of doing this would be that nobody freaks out and all the major FA stay with their current teams through the season. But I think KP is quite happy with the current status of the roster and might be willing to stand pat and go for the homerun.

Brett Pill - Lord of the double.

by malarky on Nov 17, 2008 8:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Blazers don't need to worry about 2010 -- 2009 is the year

Because Hedo Turkoglu will be an unrestricted free-agent and the Blazers will have plenty of money to sign him if they want. After that, they will still have plenty of moveable pieces for an additional trade if they choose.

Turkoglu won the Most Improved Player Award last year, and he was already a very good player before that. He just scored 35 points on the Blazers the other day. He would greatly improve our already strong 3-point shooting. And his ability to operate with the ball as a “point forward” like a Scottie Pippen would lessen our needs at point guard.

From Hedo’s perspective, why wouldn’t he want to cap-off a great career with a few titles by joining an already stacked Blazers squad? He will get his money either way.

He would come in as our starting Small Forward, which would allow the Blazers to choose between Outlaw, Batum, or Webster as the back-up. This would make two of them expendable and would allow the Blazers to put together a strong package for an upgrade at point-guard. (ie – Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw or Martell Webster for an aging Jason Kidd).

I strongly believe that Hedo will be a Blazer next season, because it is the right move, and KP always makes the right move. :)

by ajinoregon on Nov 17, 2008 8:49 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ewww...Turkeyglue

Damn, there goes our foothold for NBA’s best looking team. One step forward two steps back, I guess.

"I'd hate to be you if I were me." - Eddie (Barfly)

by NBAstard on Nov 17, 2008 8:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Paul Allen could also pay for a new nose. It would be a start

And then he would be forbidden to grow a scrawny beard. We could make it work :)

by Norsktroll on Nov 17, 2008 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's ok

We have Mortimer and me, so we still have the best looking fans. Oh, and Sophia says Dave is hot, and no one dares disagree with her.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nearly Endless Possibilities

the first thing would be to add up the ‘definite’ contracts that will be applied to team salary: pryzbilla, oden, aldridge, webster, roy, fernandez, rodriguez, batum & bayless.

those 9 players would put portland’s team salary at around 32.6 million (assumption on webster is around 4.3 million), and the automatic cap-holds for a 12 man roster would bump portland up around 34 million.

next would come the salary cap level itself. is the economy going to keep the cap at this year’s level? the cap could be 57 million or it could be 61 million. Assuming a 60 million cap would leave portland with 26 million in cap-space.

Now comes the issue of the 3 rotational players that weren’t listed: outlaw, blake, & frye. At this point, Channing looks like a likely casualty of the cap-space option. He hasn’t been playing well and he will have a 9.5 million cap-hold. Unless he’s willing to sign quickly for a dicounted salary, he will almost certainly be gone.

Blake’s salary is 4 million and travis’s is 3.6 million. Now those could get plugged back into the Blazer’s team salary depending on who the blazers are targeting. A problem is that the options on those players have to be exercised by portland about 10-14 days before free agents could be signed. In any event, assuming 1 or both or neither of the two players are kept, Portland’s projected cap-space would be 18-26 million.

Then of course come the options. The first calender-wise, would be the next draft. KP is a draft day wizard, and he ‘coincidentally’ has 5 draft picks in the draft immediately before the impending cap-psace. And that 1st round pick would represent a guaranteed contract that would automatically reduce cap-space. KP will have a lot os assets to utilize if he chooses to make that the big trading day. And I believe it’s possible to construct trades that would have as a component, that cap-space. So a lot could happen for portland on draft day.

For example, suppose KP had a reasonable expectation that he could land Hedo Turkoglu as a free agent. And suppose another team at draft time had a trade exception of 4-5 million. That’s the case almost every season. I could see a trade in that case that would have portland send out either webster or outlaw plus the 2009 1st round pick for the trade exception plus a couple of future 1st round picks. Portland would gain cap-space, exchange a 1st that would reduce cap-space for future picks, and also gain either a 3.6 million or 4.3 million TPE. That’s a fairly effective trade if a chunk of the cap-space was used to sign a player like Hedo.

That space portland will have will give KP some great leverage when it comes to trades. Not only can portland offer immediate salary and cap-relief to another team, but if a player, for example Vince Carter was traded, the other team would also receive a huge trade exception as well.

The free agent list isn’t that impressive. Hedo Turkoglu is at the top of the list assuming he opts out (fairly safe assumption). Other possibilities are Brandon Bass, Ben Gordon, Anderson Varejao, and even a step into the darkside of Ron Artest.

From everything that KP and Tom Penn have said, it appears the Blazer front office is intent on that cap-space. Obviously, the darius miles situation is a fly in the ointment, but my guess would be that no trades will happen for portland till draft day…they want to grab that cap-space ball and run with it.

by moldorf on Nov 17, 2008 9:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sergio is not a defnite contract

Next year is a team option. Same with Blake and Outlaw.

by Norsktroll on Nov 17, 2008 9:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if you read my post

you’d see that I mentioned blake and outlaw as having team options

and about sergio: you are incorrect…the blazer’s picked up the option for the 4th year of sergio’s contract this summer.

by moldorf on Nov 17, 2008 10:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Trades

Never forget about trades unrelated to free agents. Rumor has it that Tinsley may go to Charlotte – giving them 3 PG’s. Wallace is said to be available, and Battier’s a possibility. Then you have some teams, like Dallas, Minnesota, Washington and San Diego off to poor starts, any one of which may decide by spring that they need to restructure and or rebuild. Along the way, you have players like Gordon that seem unhappy, or a player like Hinrich being played out of position. We have cap space and pieces. Not including Diogu, we have 12 players, all of which either now, or in the near future, are skilled enough to play on the 1st or 2nd teams of many other teams. The two sitting right now are Bayless, and likely Batum when Webster returns. But Rudy’s playing time also makes it likely that one of the three of Frye, Trout, and Webster will not have many minutes as well. Then, in addition to these players, you’ll need to move the player at the position that you’ve just traded for. And, to spice it up, toss in the Bayless – Sergio rivalry. Sergio’s Spanish agent’s recent comments make it pretty clear that if Mac tries to play Bayless at all, then Sergio – who will lose minutes – is not going to be a happy camper. As in gone.

by Eben Calder on Nov 17, 2008 9:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wish their was a Point Guard in that group

But somehow getting one of those would be great besides Dirk, not a big Dirk fan personally), I only would do it if we give up one of our big four though (LMA, BRoy, GO or Rudy) however, I’m more then content with sticking with these 4 (for obvious reasons)! So how can we steal CP3 from NO?

"Sometimes I catch myself watching him and he's shooting floaters all-net. And just to watch how he's talking trash. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Rudy's a competitor." - Brandon Roy

by Trail Ducker on Nov 17, 2008 10:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Iverson

Becomes a FA next year.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What do these former contract-year players have in common?

Let’s not rule out our ability to snag a player next summer who makes it clear to their organization that they won’t resign.

by Samuelson on Nov 17, 2008 10:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Trade

Bayless
Blake
Outlaw
Martell
RLEC
Frye

For

LeBron

:)

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 10:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

+

All our draft day picks except for one giant late draft day trade that lands us Hansbourough… Leaving our roster looking like…

Sergio
Roy/Rudy
LeBron/Batum
Aldridge/Hansbourough
Oden/Pryzbilla

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like the "Kevin Garnett Pu Pu Platter" that Boston offered for him

So there is a historical comparison at least. But since Cleveland can pay another max. player besides James (or two if he leaves), most likely still no deal.

by Norsktroll on Nov 17, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Depends

If he wants to play there anymore, does he think he will have success there etc. If everything goes as well as possible, we could offer LeBron just as much if I am not mistaken.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Has anyone noticed

How all the high profile free agents in 09/10 play one of the positions that our Big 3 play? There are no point guards that interest me (steve nash? too old at this point) and really only one small forward who we probably won’t get (LeBron). I’m very intrigued as to what KP has planned, because there really isn’t an immediate no-brainer target for us.

Things happen for a reason they say, but I say there's a reason things happen.

by sixth on Nov 17, 2008 11:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

FA

PG Sergio is getting better every single day. Blake is a decent short term answer & Bayless has all that potential. Unless we go after Steve Nash or Allen Iverson, it looks like Sergio or Bayless are the PG of the future. Trade the one we don’t start once Blake is gone.
SG appears to be sowed up pretty well with Roy/Rudy
SF We don’t have one great player here, we have 3 good ones. Each excelling in different areas, coupling Martel/Outlaw in a trade would mean we would need to find a great SF in return. Batum would still be aces coming off the bench for defense & with someone like LeBron he could sit & develop behind him for years while we win championships.
PF Frye will likely be gone soon. Except I don’t see KP addressing this in FA, most likely draft a player.
C Oden & Pryz? I am good :)

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine...

Batum developing an offensive game under LeBron James.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 11:33 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

All I know

Is that I can’t wait for this dumb season to get over so we can talk about trades, free agency, and the draft every day.

by tominhawaii on Nov 17, 2008 11:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

LeBron...

Not only is a young superstar, but he perfectly fits the biggest need of a full time consistent starter on our team(SF). But how do you go about aquiring him… He no doubt fits our team better then any of the FA available.

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 2:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Put your "I Am A Naive Sports Fan." T-shirts on if

you ever think these players will ever wear a Blazers jersey:

Yao
Kobe
LeBron
Pauly P
Stoudemire

when i get sad, i stop being sad & become awesome again. true story.

by Net Ranger on Nov 17, 2008 3:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Explain

Why do you think none of them would ever play here?

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 17, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right on target here, dude.

It’s all just a pie in the sky pipe dream.

by AK1984 on Nov 18, 2008 12:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Logic

We need a SF
We have lots of money coming off the books/potential to have as much free cap space as anyone in the league
Best SF in the league could be available if he tests free agency in 2010. In the case of the OP he was wondering if Cleveland knew they couldn’t keep him, why not deal him a year before you lose him to a team that has loads of cap room(Blazers are an option since they could have very low space, once RLEC expires).

Time For The Spanish Guard To Step Up

by TheGreatDane17 on Nov 18, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I respectfully disagree that it is a no brainer

The three year extension available to Wade, James, Bosh will net them $69M over the three years while as a FA they can resign at $140M over 6 years with an opt out at 3 allowing them a security blanket in case of injury of $71M extra. I suspect they will wait to take that as that is the reason for their current opt out – to get them over 30% of cap limit instead of 25% they currently have and another 3 years gives them 35% of cap.

Another factor not discussed is the projection they must make on the economy. Should we go into significant deflation there will be no team to offer them these dollars including their current teams.

You are correct that the other teams will have an enormous cap charge for a 5 year contract starting with 2010 for Pierce and Nowitzki with almost $35M needed to be under the cap and possibly $32M for Redd. For the younger guys the cost is still staggering and only NY and Dallas and maybe LAL and Portland can afford them. Bosh and Stoudemire going somewhere else depends on the Toronto folks’ budget and their willingness to offer the max likewise, Phoenix. Likely none of these guys are leaving their current teams. It is simply the timing of their options that governs their choice.

Great discussion starter Dave. As usual, you have used up a bit of my time in considering your perspective!

when you’ve been in a dry land even a little dew looks inviting —Dave
"When you want to win a game, you have to teach. When you lose a game, you have to learn." - Tom Landry

by lee3022 on Nov 18, 2008 1:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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