B-Roy "Greg Oden better than Dwight Howard".(Poll)
by RipCity on Nov 13, 2008 4:54 PM PST
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PrintIn the morning Wheels came on 95.5 the game and said that Roy told him Greg Oden is better than Dwight Howard. Roy didnt say that Oden will be better, but he said that he is better.
So Im wondering what does B-Roy sees that I dont see? Is Oden showing something in practice that he cant on the court? Does anybody think that if we had Howard on our team we would be 8-0, and unstoppable in the future? If Oden wont be as half of what Howard is by the end of the year, then I think Roy just said this to bring Odens confidence up. Because I dont see Oden better than Howard. Maybe I need some vision change.
Ok. Would you trade Oden for Howard now? Is Oden better than Howard? I just dont understand why Roy said that. What does he mean, or whats the purpose of Roy saying that? Cuz its obvious that Oden is not better than Howard.... yet, or ever.
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Motivation
Here’s hoping Roy and Nate learn how to “push Greg’s buttons”
(maybe they can send Jason Quick around again, with an “underwhelming” comment?)
Howard is better...
for now.
I think this is pretty funny though. I heard that on the radio too and chuckled.
Howard just had a 30+ point, 15+ rebounds, and 10 blocks game. I can’t discredit the kid.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Nov 13, 2008 5:02 PM PST reply actions
Your Right...
Howard is better.. period. Howard is the best pure center in the game (Amare and Duncan more of PFs). Im a big fan of Oden, but lets face it, he hasn’t done anything. When Oden puts up 30 points, 19 boards, and 10 blocks (with just 1 turnover) then you can compare the two. Oden is Oden. Howard is Howard.
There’s nothing wrong with the fact that Oden is not the greatest center in the league… it doesn’t mean hes not good. he will be solid. he will contribute.
The fact is
we have no idea. Oden is just starting out and we won’t know the answer to this for another couple years. He’s still recovering from microfracture surgery and doesn’t have his quick reactions or basketball instincts going yet…….he’s still thinking too much, especially about his image. Not in a vain way, but it’s more that he cares what people think about him. Once he starts playing ball again like he has done his whole life and starts enjoying himself again, he’ll be just fine. It’s going to take a while, plain and simple, he’s been away from the game too long to just start out dominate.
I love Dave’s suggestion to just rebound. That will inevitably lead to some offense and will just get his timing and instincts going and clear his head.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
It's not even close..
right now. Howard is superior at this point to Oden. That being said, I remember when Amare Stoudamire first came back from his microfracture surgery…he looked to be a shell of his former self. It took him quite awhile to regain his explosiveness. I’m hoping this is the case with Greg as well…that we will see the old explosiveness eventually. Right now he’s a bit plodding.
it seems likely
that the rest of the team sees the best of Oden in practice, given how jittery he’s looked in-game so far. Once he calms down and works his way into NBA shape and an NBA mindset, the game will slow down and we’ll see more of the monster that Roy, Frye, and others are always raving about.
That being said, Oden’s not going to touch Howard’s level this year. One manbeast just has more experience than the other and is already dominant. I think Oden has the potential to be better than Howard (for people who think Oden’s offense is underdeveloped, just look at Superman), but right now it’s not even close.
If Oden was in shape
He is much better than Howard defensively and skills-wise. MUCH better passer.
Of course, he ain’t in shape, so he wasn’t all that effective in his one game.
I doubt Roy says this lightly, though. He also might be seeing the future and knows Oden just needs to get in shape with gametime runnin’. It’s an interesting comment though…
PERHAPS, Roy dislikes Howard, as Howard was jibber jabbering in our game against them.
Howard is a beast, but a relatively unskilled one (which is why he didn’t look that great in the Olympics). Oden is a few inches bigger than Howard in every direction. I cannot say Oden is better than Howard right this millisecond, but I think he will be.
He just needs to get in shape.
It’s a big statement by Roy, and whatever the reasons for it I’m sure he has his reasons. He’s the team leader.
Mortimer
This is what I'm thinking
If you look at what Oden did in his first couple of minutes in the Miami game—that is, until fatigue set in—and extrapolate that over 30 + minutes, that’d be awfully impressive. Maybe that’s what the guys see in practice, because practice isn’t non-stop action. In fact, a lot of practice action is half-court only.
Unfortunately, in real games conditioning is a HUGE factor, and it seems to be a lot harder for seven footers to get into shape than regular human beings. (Remember McGlorible the season before last?)
Still, I believe it’s only a matter of time before we see what Roy and his teammates have seen. Will that be Howard-esque? Maybe not for another season or two. But I do believe it’s coming, and we’re talking true domination at the defensive end and on the boards.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
Remember that Howard...
…and possibly every other early entry 7-footer—struggled during his first season in the NBA. This should be a mantra for Blazer fans: “He’s only 20; he’s only 20; he’s only 20!”
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
Huge statement by Roy
and I can only hope there is some substance to it. I must say that with Oden out of shape and wheezing he had 2 official and a total of 4 possible blocks in 16 minutes. Two blocks weren’t counted because of fouls on the play but he clearly erased the shots. One of the two that were counted was almost obscene in it’s dominance as Oden’s hand was below his waist when his forearm smothered the attempt. I see the potential there but that’s some ballsy freaking talk from Roy the day after Howard chalks up a triple dub with blocks as one of the aforementioned dubs!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
dont get ahead of yourself
Howard is better.. period. Howard is the best pure center in the game (Amare and Duncan more of PFs). Im a big fan of Oden, but lets face it, he hasn’t done anything. When Oden puts up 30 points, 19 boards, and 10 blocks (with just 1 turnover) then you can compare the two. Oden is Oden. Howard is Howard.
There’s nothing wrong with the fact that Oden is not the greatest center in the league… it doesn’t mean hes not good. he will be solid. he will contribute. Hes just a rookie.. with “potential.”
Roy’s a great player, but what gives him the credentials to label Oden better than Howard? Roy’s barely been in the league for 3 seasons. You don’t think his opinion’s a little bias?
around the bend
off the rails
There is no other way to say it. Anyone who says that Oden is better than Howard can thusly be described.
Absolutely NO WAY is Oden better than Howard in any sense. Not in a skill sense. Not in an athleticism sense. Not in a b’ball IQ sense. Not in an upside sense. Not in a strength sense. Not Not Not Not.
I think you get the picture.
We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.
Wait did you say
not in an upside sense? Not in a strength sense? Not in a BB IQ sense? You are straight wrong about all of those and probably skills as well! The only thing you were right about in that whole post was that CURRENTLY Howard is better then Oden athletically. Now if you had said Howard is better defensively, offensively and by stats you would be correct. Instead you chose words that had to do with potential and latent ability so you sir are off the rails and around the bend.
For the record I do NOT think Oden is better then Howard right now except in the things you said he wasn’t such as BB IQ, strength, skills and upside.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
BB IQ, strength, skills?
BB IQ? Oden has one year of college ball experience and about 40 min. of pro experience… and your saying Oden’s BB IQ is greater than Howard, a five year NBA vet? I don’t think so.
We can’t debate who is stronger.. we don’t know. But it is clear that Howard knows how to use his strength and athleticism more to his advantage. Hence his gaudy stats. Hence the dunk contest.
Skills? in my opinion it is obvious that Howard’s skills are more advanced and refined compared to Oden’s… but lets assume Oden is more skilled like you believe. He must not use those skills, because he couldn’t even average 20 points in high school let alone college.
Oden is, and will be a great defender and rebounder in this league. He will give the blazers a better chance at winning games… It is O.K. that Howard is better basketball player… Get over it.
If we had Howard
We’d be 7-1 right now. The way the rest of the team played @ LA, it wouldn’t have mattered how good our C was.
Oden is a very talented player. I’m sure he’s done a lot in practice that we haven’t seen in a game. I think he could eventually look like Howard during a game… but that’s a ways away.
It’s exciting to hear that from Roy though.
Boomshakalaka
From a skill-set perspective...
I can see the potential Greg has. Is he better than Howard now? No. (except maybe at the line)
But I have no doubt that Greg will be better than Howard. He’s already working on his shooting, and getting shots that Howard seems to have no interest in. (skill-based shots, not the power-based or ‘two steps to the bucket’ shots that Howard seems to favor)
Yes, Greg’s out of game shape. Yes, Greg’s got a way to go both in his offensive game, and his confidence in both his knee, and his play. But I, for one, believe he will become exactly what we all hoped he would be.
How cool is it
that Brandon sees Mr. Oden as a bigtime superstar right now and speaks it.
Greg seems to care more than most how he’s perceived. THe team captain flat-out gots his back. It reminds me of a buddy of mine who insists (and seems to truly believe) that his (pretty enough) bride is the most beautiful woman in the world, bar none.
Referencing another post I would suggest that this makes Brandon uniquely clutch.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
not cool at all
I think delusional is more accurate.
We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.
Empty, Are you describing
my friend’s marriage or Brandon completely selling out to Greg?
Perfect practice makes perfect.
I'm starting to think
you are Bill Simmons in disguise. Cept of course Bill is witty…
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Oden is still out of shape and EXTREMELY tentative, nervous and is trying too hard
Not a good combination to impress anyone in a live game.
Roy probably does see other things in practice (probably not better than Howard granted), but that’s because Oden is comfortable in practice.
Once Oden gets his legs back and starts to get comfortable just playing another game out there we will begin to see him shine more
Rooo-D!
Wow
Some of you have really high expectations for Oden. Howard averages 25 points 15 rebs, and 5 blocks. Help me out with what you expect Oden will average if he is better than Howard? 30-20-10? I will take Howard now. But as you can tell by my name not really a believer in Oden. Already waited 2 years for that.
Two years?
Two years ago he was on a run to the championship game.
You waited one year for him. That isn’t too much to ask, is it?
Once one of Oden’s joints, bones, feet start breaking/breaking down over and over, you will have the Bowie comparison you crave. It’s a fun game to play, and I’m sure you’re waiting with baited breath.
No one knows if Oden will have repeated injuries. But to put it as simply as possible, there is a huge difference between someone whose body completely and literally BROKE down over and over and someone who has had basketball related injuries (a tear in his knee and a ankle/foot sprain— and if you still care about the wrist, which also isn’t a breakdown…).
Like Kelly Dwyer from Ball Don’t Lie has pointed out, there is a difference between Yao and Kenyon Martin. Yao’s feet just can’t handle his size and it seems inevitable his feet will break (again). Kenyon Martin unluckily had basketball-related tears and injuries.
There is a big difference.
If you’re just arguing Oden will be UNLUCKY, then that’s not really a prediction. It’s kinda silly, in fact.
If you think his body just can’t handle it, you’re only guessing since his injuries are not of that nature.
And if he does in fact become a guy who can’t stay healthy for over 70 games a year, year in and year out, it would only be a lucky guess to predict it at this time (and a unnecesarily macabre one). Even his micro’d knee is healthy; what makes you think his body is breaking down, Bowie-Style?
And why wish it so much, that you make a screenname out of it?
There’s not a lot going on there, but a remarkable percentage of it is lame.
Mortimer
You are a smart person Mortimer
My name means more in terms of expectations. Bowie didn’t provide what fans expected so does Oden. In half a year it will be 2 years of hype. Just that he never was able to perform to his full potential because he is injured one way or another.
Live by Oden, and you'll die by Oden
not necessarily injuries. Just not enough passion and fire.
Yeah, there’s the injury thing. That is enough to scare me away from being an Oden believer.
The main thing for me though is his lack of offensive moves and his luke warm sense of passion.
We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.
So I guess you wrote off Olajuwon
in his rookie year too eh? Of course GO has FAR better footwork then Hakeem did in his rookie season. Now I’m not I repeat NOT saying Oden is or ever will be better then Hakeem. However, your statements are just plain ludicrous. He is not a super passionate guy currently but that’s just how he rolls. Alot of great players play without passion until a sublime moment hits them and they cut loose. Until this season Broy played with little or no passion.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
foot work
sorry dude. Hakeem has the best foot work of any center.. Of all time. When i think great foot work, immediately i think of Hakeem. You have to back off with all these comparisons. Oden is Oden.
me out with what you expect Oden will average if he is better than Howard? 30-20-10?
I’d rather use the “Russell-Chamberlain” measurement
Rings > Stats
Maybe Roy
was being sarcastic.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Remember
Dwight Howard’s first month as a pro:
9PPG, 10RPG, 2BPG, 52FG%
Founder of the "Crash Batumcoot" Movement.
If Oden
can do same his first month it will be good. After all these injuries to Oden it feels like it too much to ask even that. But why did Roy say that he is better now?
Who knows?
Perhaps it can be taken at face value: from what Roy has seen of Oden, he thinks he is better than Howard and that it will show in the games.
Perhaps it is a motivational tool— Roy has said a few times the only real challenge for Oden exists in his own head, and that he has everything he needs to dominate right now. Perhaps the full confidence of your team leader instills self-confidence within Oden.
Perhaps it is a post-Howard-jibber-jabbering sneer at Howard. I doubt this very much though— doesn’t fit Roy’s M.O., doesn’t help Oden at all if Roy doesn’t feel that way, we beat Howard so no reason to sneer at him, and we only see them once more this year. So, I do not think this is a real possibility.
Since Roy isn’t known for saying outlandish things for the sake of saying outlandish things, I’ll take it at face value and say that Roy just feels that Oden is better than Howard. I think Oden WILL be better, because once he is in shape he can do the Howard-style-offense (what little there is) and he’s already better defensively and team-wise.
You can’t underestimate being so much bigger/stronger/faster than everyone. Right now Oden is slow except for unique moments, but his muscles will re-learn what they knew before and his lungs will catch up like they did at the end of his freshman year.
No matter what, and no matter what anyone we says (no matter how much we trust them), Oden just needs time to learn who Oden is, and what the NBA game is about. He is an incredibly special talent and as long as he can stay on the court I have no worries about whether he’ll be great or not.
It’s all there.
Mortimer
+1
The fact that Roy, by all accounts a reasonable man, would say this speaks volumes. He’s not blowing smoke. He’s saying our boy Greg is a better physical specimen than Howard – which, by the way, he is. He’s bigger AND has more touch. Can we wait a month of his career before declaring him a disappointment? The level of negativity surrounding 22 minutes of court time is unprecedented in the history of all NBA fanbases.
I know Portland has been through a lot with Bowie and Walton, but good lord, give the kid a month or two.
Amare struggled for a few games coming off microfracture, and he WASN’t a rookie, and he had ALREADY dominated NBA competition. The Suns were like 0-5 to start that season. Anybody remember? Now a vocal minority of the Portland fanbase is doomsday over 27 minutes of play from a 20 year old rookie coming off microfracture? Give it time.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Amare
scored over 40 points in the first game coming from surgery, and it was on the Blazers, remember?
Live by Oden, and you'll die by Oden
link please
I would like a link to the stats from the game assuming you are correct.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
not a boxscore, but even better
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2006/10/stoudemire_is_back_sort_of.html
6pts
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
Pre season
Live by Oden, and you'll die by Oden
u said coming off surgery, technically that wouild mean the march prior, when he made the 3 game stint
either way his first few games back werent good. i shall keep looking though
Rip City Baby...People have no idea what is coming.
Follow my twitter www.twitter.com/PDXBlazersFTW, @PDXBlazersFTW. Lots of random Blazer Posts from links I find around the blogosphere.
I took Gavins word on the Radio
Live by Oden, and you'll die by Oden
Amare came back early
Scored 20-something in short minutes on a horribly crappy Blazers team, and then played a few more games overall pretty poorly before decided to wrap it up for the season to rest his knee. It’s a big reason the Blazers held Oden out for the whole year, even though technically (if one wanted to) he coulda’ got on the court at the end of the season.
But, everyone who had the surgery before him tended to come back too soon, so caution was smarter if ya ask me.
Amare did not score 40 something. Gavin is just misremembering it, and possibly mixing up some of Amare’s other huge games against us (there’s been a lot, it seems) with his comeback game.
He briefly did well, but again… it was against our worstest team ever.
It’s also different coming back when the last time you were on a court you dominated like Amare did (and the confidence that gives you), instead of returning to a court you’ve never been on before like Oden. He was never going to average 20ppg off the bat, so the time off just compounds the problem.
Even that next season where Amare was back fulltime, he didn’t look or play like the pre-surgery Amare. It really bummed me out and I thought he was gone forever, that player completely destroying Tim Duncan (the best PF defender ever, perhaps) in the playoffs with his insane athleticism.
It slowly came around over time, and now Amare has it mostly back and added other layers to his game to compensate.
Now, when Oden isn’t gassed, he hasn’t looked all that different from pre-injury Oden. He seems to have retained his athleticism, but his conditioning is so poor right now that he can’t sustain. Only time will fix that.
All of the medical reports said that Oden’s micro was, for micro, an extremely minor version of the surgery on a non-load bearing part of the joint, so once it was healed it wasn’t expected to cause him as much trouble as Z-Bo’s or Mile’s surgeries did. Since he isn’t feeling pain and appears to move around quite well for being so out of shape, I’d suspect that is true.
Micro is a wierd thing, and it scared the hell outta me last year but it IS elective and will supposedly lengthen his career and prevent an injury on that knee.
Every player has come back slow from it, on the court. Holding Oden out so long damaged his conditioning, but that isn’t permanent.
Mortimer
Howard is better now. Oden has potential.
Howard is better now. An all star, and very dominating big man. Oden has potential. Hopefully he reaches Dwight Howard’s level, but remember he is young with high expectations. Still learning, and a good future is hopefully ahead.
by CanadianBlazerfan on Nov 13, 2008 7:02 PM PST reply actions
I dont
think Wheels would do that to B-Roy.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
Blazers fans sure have jumped off the Oden bandwagon.
Hope you bandwagon jumpers broke your ankles! After only one game! In the “Clutch” player blog today not one mention of GO except me. Have you ever played any organized basketball? If so, you certainly noticed the difference between practice and playing in games. No comparision. Level of competition, intensity, etc., are completely different. Games are about winning. Give GO time. He hasn’t played in a real game for a year and a half before last night. He’ll come around. He also has to get those injuries out of his head and that’s not an easy thing to do. Physically your well, but your heads telling you your not.
I know I will support the big fella until the end of his NBA career and beyond.
I just plain vibe the big guy. Oh how I cannot wait to see the massive crow eating that will occur in no more then 2 years and 3 weeks. I almost feel sorry for our black feathered friends. Simmons alone might push crows to the brink of extinction.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Hey dont blame me
Im not trying to make fun of Oden, I just said what I heard from Wheels. And you know what he said. Its not only in his head. He needs to stay healthy to be on the floor, and if he can do that then he will get in shape. Then there will be no problem with his head when he will see that he can dominate again.
And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.
not even a discussion
Correct.
Just as it’s not even a discussion that global warming is happening.
Why do some people argue that global warming is not happening?
Why do some people argue that Oden is better than Howard?
Beats me. Sure is a head scratcher.
We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.
Ok wait dude you have really gone off the deep end now.
You are saying that Global Warming is somehow comparable to Oden vs Howard? Are there teams of scientists working around the clock to project Oden’s NBA abilities? I guess I missed that press release.
The analogy is a poor one unless you are proposing that people should have known about Global warming in the 1950’s you know before they had the relevant data to create mathematical models for projections. Your Oden hate is quite clear but your points are quite weak.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
PS I am well aware
of the scientific fact of global warming. I fail to see the scientific basis for your statement however.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
This just in
Oden to DOMINATE by no later then 12/03/10. I am a student of Vedic astrology and Oden’s knee happened within 16 days of him changing his minor dasha (planetary period) into his 12th house ruler (house of loss and woe). However, on 11/03/08 Oden will enter into his Sun minor dasa. The Sun in Oden’s chart is the 10th house lord (house of career). I expect Oden to be absolutely dominant by no later then 12/03/10. It’s written in the stars baby!
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
One caveat
if he gets married between now and then that would change everything. If he is still single on 12/03/10 he will be beasterizing people on a regular basis. yes Beasterizing it’s a new word I invented for Oden after I saw this video.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Who
Who in there right mind Voted that Greg is better right now. That’s a joke! Hopefully Greg will develop into a similar player but this isn’t even close at this point. Greg is Very, Very athletic for his size but I’m not sure he will ever match Howard’s quickness and explosiveness. When Howard Grabs a board its like he is going to pop the ball, and when Greg tries to grab a board its like he doesn’t want to hurt the ball. I hope its just a temporary thing but that’s the fact at this point. Before anyone comments yes I realize he had surgery and He only has a few minutes under his belt. Im not trying to rag on the guy I think he will be one of the best Defending and Rebounding big men in the game in time if he stays healthy of course. I already love the blocked shots! This is going to be a great time watching him and the team develope but lets stay in touch with reality.
Hakeem!
I didn’t see a whole lot of Hakeem’s early days but im guessing he had a lot better footwork straight out the womb! Have you ever seem that highlight where Hakeem does the dream shake on Robinson? listen oden will never be able to do anything like remotely close too that. Dream shake… first he needs to learn the drop step. I apologize if Hakeem really had worse footwork that oden when he was a rookie but I just don’t see it as oden has no footwork with his back to the basket at this point. I hope you speak the truth though it would be sweet if someone that can’t drop step without shuffling his feet could end up with feet like hakeem. That would be awesome but I would be happy with a stud shot blocker and Rebounding machine.
hakeem
was an offensive joke his rookie season and many wondered if he would ever become more then a dunker with jaw dropping put backs. His Defense was quite good right out of the gate and so was his rebounding. He had no jump shot and his hooks were very unpolished. However, within a couple of years he was already very good and obviously by the time he was owning Robinson it was different story.
He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants
Oden is among a select few big men
that commands double teams CONSTANTLY as a rookie. He is stronger than 99.5% of the rest of the players in the league, with the possible exception of Howard (we will see that titanic smash soon).
My point is, regardless of what’s happened to him, you cannot downplay the significance of the fact that he is virtually impossible to stop 1 on 1 by the majority of teams in this league.
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