I’m not a fan of the iso’s either, unless he has a mismatch. Sometimes they’re good, but I get tired of watching them all game. I do love Roy’s game. I love Rudy’s also.

Give the team time, everybody, including Nate, is still learning about each other. They’ll get it……

but you can’t start like that.

Roy won the game for the Blazers by asserting his offense from minute one to the final minutes. They iso him all the time because he’s nearly unstoppable. He has every move in the book and makes defenders look like fools.

LMA was all outside tonight. He was straight fearing Dwight Howard (for good reason). But the last game he dominated on the inside and low block.

Flat out, we don’t win without him.

I know you probably have some real bias for Rudy, and everyone over here loves him. But Roy is the Blazers.

Welcome! This is a good question.

I’m going to mention in my game recap tonight that Rudy had a hard time when he was given the ball tonight in order to create his own shot off the dribble. This is not a new phenomenon. The defenders in the NBA are strong and quick and they’re making it hard for him to get a decent look. His quick movement and the ability to get his shot off quickly really come into play when somebody like Roy has the ball first. Rudy would not prosper right now if you had him taking most of his shots off of the dribble.

—Dave

Running the offense through Roy is our bread and butter. It won the blazers 41 games last season and is working pretty dang well so far this season. Although Roy might be forcing some of his attempts, I am happy to see him take his aggressiveness up a notch. One of Roy’s weaknesses in the past has been that he has been too passive from a scoring standpoint. I am glad he is looking to score as much as he can.

I was actually talking to my friend tonight about how well Rudy is fitting in. I love how he doesn’t try and dominate the ball and falls in line with what the team wants to do. He is so smart and unselfish it makes me blush. He knows he has to work his way in and let the game come to him. As he gets more acclimated with Roy and the blazers system, the ball will come to him more often and his shot attempts will increase.

Outlaw bugs me a little bit with his shot selection, but its hard to argue with the results on most nights. Now that he appears to have added a legit 3 point shot, he is really becoming a factor in my opinion. Although I wouldn’t mind a few less contested fadeaways from Outlaw and a few more pull up jumpers from Rudy, we are winning. And that is all the matters in my mind. Rudy is only going to get better considering he is only 7 games into his nba career. This is only the beginning for the smooth criminal…

All the posters so far have made important points. All of the points are valid. And I believe perhaps AndrewD said it best when he suggested that we give them time to figure out how best to play together.

Frankly, I get somewhat weary of Roy’s absorption of the ball and his sluggish way of getting going with it. I’d prefer to see more passing and more cutting. More movement in general would be more interesting to watch and probably more effective in terms of beating opponents.

I’d like to see Roy distribute the ball a little more. No question about that. Trouble is, Roy is very good at doing what he does, and we tend to win when he is on his game. So we’re not going to change right away because that would be a settback.

But I suspect that Kartemax is going to get his wish as the season wears on. Rudy will become more involved and Roy will learn how best to blend his game with Rudy’s talents.

Is the elephant in the room. Although not directly addressed the problem lies with the lack of a solid point guard, not to mention the wacky rotation and the sets developed for an overwhelming center that isn’t there.
Roy had to take over in the fourth and get what he could in the two man game with Aldrige or the drive and kick to James or Webster/Outlaw in order to win the games they won last year. That isn’t a complete team. Roy can’t bring himself to give up the drivers seat when the team is still finding it’s legs. The answer isn’t for Roy to hand the keys to Fernandez, the answer is a full function offensive flow. That won’t happen until Greg is back on his feet, and even then maybe not until a clear winner of the point guard sweepstakes emerges.

I truly believe that Roy will almost always make the right decisions with the ball. whether its passing it or taking it to the hole, I think Brandon always has a reason for what he is doing.

OT
Travis is shooting 67% from 3 for the season, just thought I’d throw that out there

Using Rudy to his full potential, but I doubt there is a rookie in the league that is being used to his full potential. The season is young and getting the most of new players almost always takes time. The NBA is a marathon and the Blazers are pacing themselves.

On the other hand, the team has been surprisingly efficient at the offensive end of the floor thus far:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?&action=login&appRedirect=http3a2f2finsider.espn.go.com2fnba2fhollinger2fteamstats

I don’t like the somewhat repetitive nature of NBA offense, but the 24 second shot clock places some real limitations on teams.

… on a points per possession basis. I haven’t had a problem with Roy’s shot selection at all. Could Rudy be used more effectively? Sure. Its a work in progress. However, I like what we’ve seen so far— Rudy has contributed a great deal but its still Brandon Roy’s game to win down the stretch.

Its great to have so many fans from Spain who read this blog. You provide a perspective that we in the US don’t have, and you have watched Rudy for much longer than those of us in the US have. You guys are a great asset to BlazersEdge— almost as great an asset as Rudy is to the Blazers.

Rudy has had a fantastic start to his NBA career. He’s played with confidence and style and he’s been very efficient with his shots. He has clearly shown himself to be more than an average rookie, and he is very deserving of the 30 minutes per game he has received.

However, Rudy is still a rookie and he has joined a team that was pretty decent last year, winning half of its games. This is Brandon Roy’s team, and Roy has already compiled a long list of 4th quarter heroics— the Houston game was hardly his first. I’m somewhat troubled by the claim that Roy is “hogging the ball.” Roy has indeed had a few games this year where he has struggled with his shot, perhaps taking too many. However, the claim that he is a selfish player is one that nobody who has watched Roy before this season would make. Roy is one of the best passers from the SG position in the league.

Roy already trusts Rudy. We saw that at the end of the Utah game, when Roy passed to Rudy for a potential game tying 3 pointer. As they continue playing together, that trust will grow, and Rudy will become a bigger part of the offense.

Fans of Roy (such as myself) love Rudy. There is no reason for Rudy fans not to love Roy. In time, they will be a great tandem.

(Assistant Coaches to Nate) : We need points but all our offensive schemes we worked on in the preseason revolved around Greg Oden, and there’s only so many Sergio to Rudy ally oops we can pull off before they get wise and body check Rudy back to Spain. What do we do now!?

Nate: Well, let’s take a look at last year’s 4th quarter play book.

(Nate pulls out a three ring binder with one sheet of college-ruled notebook paper with the words…)
GIVE BALL TO ROY…. and pray
Nate: Here guys, run this.

Yea, there are a lot of ISO’s being run for Roy down the stretch right now which is frustrating to watch when the shots don’t fall, but hopefully our offense will get better as the season progresses. In preseason, the priority for working rookies into the offense probably looked like Oden>>>>>>Rudy>Bayless>Batum, and now we’re relying on Rudy+Batum. Also, it’s gonna take longer than 7 games for Brandon + Roy to figure out how to play off each other effectively, right?

Am i the only one that likes watching Roy isos? also, the teams best player has to take over games in the fourth quarter. our best player is Roy, so therefor he will take more shots in the fourth quarter.

your post has sparked some interesting discussion. Thanks for posting.

In this setup often Roy handles the ball. That factually makes Blake into the shooting guard on offense, a role in which he is almost useless, unless gets the ball open for a catch and shoot. I still like Blake, but creating his own shot is even less his strength than Rudy’s right now, and he doesn’t move that well without the ball.

I think there is also something to Kartemax complaint that Roy seems to overlook Rudy and instead goes one on one or for a pass to Travis (who then goes one on one himself). The same phenomenon exists with Sergio and Rudy. In this setup, Rudy gets the ball a lot, maybe even too much. Both of this needs some work.

They should make the best use of Rudy’s ability to run around so much and quickly that it looks fairly easy for him to lose his defender even if no picks are set for him. Just imagine if they would do it more. I could see Nate designing plays that have Roy handling the ball, Rudy dashing around, then Greg or Joel setting a monster screen for his defender to swat him like a fly, and Rudy getting the pass for the open three. Triple, triple, triple. Or a good chance to drive to the rim. A thing of beauty.

one of the issues we got at the moment is we have so many weapons to choose from, i guarantee everyone once everyone knows each others game a bit better, people will fear the blazers.

however this usually takes a good amount of time, i think it would be unfair to judge after 7 games, all of which have ben affected by injury, will then require more time for analysis.

but the evidence is there, 4th quarter vs orlando was a thing of beauty, just imagine when it will be more regular, and the other time cannot prepare properly since we have too many quality players in both the first unit and second unit.

in fact even now i dont think teams can properly prepare for broy, LMA, rudy, outlaw, etc etc

this is about Roy v. Rudy! Its not! Its not about who gets more shots or us having to wait for them to develop an understanding. This is about an isolation type of offense v. player movement/sharing offense. No Blazer fan is trying to pick one player over another. If we are going to win Championships, we are going to need a more sophisticated offense that suits the players that we have. We all can see that Roy needs the ball in his hands and Rudy doesn’t so why don’t we see more of Roy driving while Rudy runs around screens to catch and shot. Nate was talking in Pre-season how he wanted to get the team to play more inside out but I don’t think that it will be enough. We still need guys cutting and setting screens. Its no coincidence that we score easier when we have player movement. When Roy/Outlaw goes 1 on1 the rest of the guys tend to stand and watch. The less of that the better. I say!

Rudy is amazing. Roy is amazing. They will be amazing together.

It’s too early for me to come up with any analysis right now :)

With the post above i’m not saying that Rudy is our best player xD

this has been a good discussion. I am a huge fan of both Roy and Rudy but have caught myself thinking the same thing about Roy at times, seeing him with four defenders collapsing
on him and holding too long, but at other times he is “the man” and I love what he does. At times there is not enough movement, but I think this team will improve greatly as it learns what all these new players can and cannot do.
   I am really excited about all the Blazer fans in Spain, I think If we take the best of international ball and American ball we will be unbeatable!

There’s really nothing wrong with that as long as that is not ALL the team is doing for long stretches. This tendency will draw double teams and open up shooters or lanes to the rack; he just needs to mix it up a little, which he is smart enough to do.

..lots of people feel similar, but, people tended to believe roy’s downside (from last season) is that sometimes he’s too unselfish, i think this season the coaches have given him the keys to the car and he’s still figuring out how to program the radio stations, where the spare tire is, etc. It’s a catch 22 situation when the fate of the team rests on your shoulders, if you pass it, and your teammate misses, (rudy against utah), you’ve failed, if you shoot, and miss, you’ve failed. Everyone is whining that the blazers should attack the paint, and when roy does, he’s being “selfish” or “not looking to distribute.” Can’t please everyone.
Also, as a bystander it’s easy to yell at your TV “pass it to Rudy, he’s open,” but rudy is always getting open, that’s doesn’t mean he should always get the ball when he is.
I love Roy and Rudy’s styles respectively and the longer they are on the court together the better their chemistry will get.

This is a great discussion. I definitely think Nate is relying on Brandon’s isolation plays too much. However, this is partly due to Rudy being a rookie and not having fully adjusted to the league. Rudy has already shown what he can do off the ball, but he has been struggling with the ball in his hands trying to create. Dave had a great comment about this earlier, basically, he is not getting good looks off of the dribble. It is not that he is particularly bad with the ball in his hands but at this point in his career he is unsure of how and where he can get good shots off the dribble. I am confident that with time he will figure this out and we will see fewer Roy iso plays and more a combination of Roy/Rudy putting pressure on the defense to create shots for themselves and the others. However, with the game on the line we are still going to go to Roy isolated at the top and let him create. This is our bread and butter play and Roy has shown he is capable and willing to either make the shot or get the appropriate people an open look at the end of games.

I too have noticed all of the isos that Brandon had lastnight. It’s hard for me to complain about it when the Blazers won, and scored 106 points against a team I think was holding opponents to under 90. Rudy is scoring 14 points per game and shooting 46% from behind the arc, and it seems as though nearly all of those points came from an assist. I’d say that Nate is utilizing him perfectly.

Team work is the essential ingredient to success on the court. Please be inclusive guys and good things will happen. Go Blazers!

Season is going just fine, especially considering the injuries. They need to play together to learn and grow. They are still just getting their legs. Doing quite well, and with plenty of areas likely to improve. I just want to see the full team play together for a dozen games. Timing takes time.

Rudy has stepped in as a vet, not a rookie. Shooters usually take how many years to get their groove at the NBA level? 3, 4? Martell? Not a knock; just a fact. RUDY! is way ahead of the curve because he fills multiple categories. Once settled a little in his role and familiar with the opposition, his passing and shooting exhibitions will be top flight. His defense looks plenty good at times – it will also improve.

Does that mean Rudy should be the number 1 option? No, for the basic reason that the smart posters above have noted: he plays better off-ball. They need to establish Brandon as demanding attention, and make sure Rudy gets to the open spot where Brandon can find him for a 15 foot spot-up or a cut to the rim. Kind of like establishing a running game so you can open up the passing lanes. Add Oden as another outlet and you’ll see Nate’s “point”.

I want to see the Blazers improve the quality of their shot attempts. That will help them down the stretch when the game is on the line. Don’t settle for jumpers. Attacking the basket makes good things happen.

Rudy has earned his run time, but I don’t want to see ANY Blazer play more than 34- 36 minutes a game, less if possible. Make it a ten man effort, run hard, Rudy will do just fine… (and yes, he does remind me of Reggie running endless curls)

For any doubters, I’ll say it again: this team can play with anyone in the league. They will need a season of games to mesh, but playoff time will be the big test. Once you determine position the number of wins doesn’t matter anymore. The 6 or 7 position would certainly be a help, but I don’t care the position as much as having a healthy squad that has built a good team chemistry and timing. I still see Second Round.

What’s wrong with Big 4? Oden, Roy, LMA, Rudy. They score 70; gets how many wins this season?

I’ve been very carefully watching how Rudy integrates into the offense with players other than Sergio.

The last two games Rudy and LMA are starting to connect. In the 4th Qtr last night Rudy had an assist to LMA on a pick and pop, and LMA had an assist on a Rudy 3-pointer when LMA could have put up a contested midrange jump shot (his bread and butter). They also had other good moments together last night and in the previous game. It was obvious that LMA started looking for Rudy after he was on the receiving end of several good feeds from Rudy. You can even see them starting to talk more on the floor.

Rudy fed Frye for 3 open jump shots last night, but unfortunately he missed all three.

Last night was also the first time I saw a screen (not a pick and pop) set for Rudy inside the 3 point line by LMA (or was it Frye?). Rudy took one step behind the screen but simply missed a good shot.

Roy and Rudy haven’t developed the chemistry together yet, and rarely talk to each other on the floor, but it will come. As someone said above, Roy needs to play with the ball and Rudy plays exceptionally well without the ball. It’s just a matter of time for them to put that together.

Rudy tried to create his own shot inside the 3-pt line 3 times last night, on one drive to the hoop and two spinning jump shots. On the drive to the hoop he had to finish over Howard, and on the other two moves he was way off balance and made poor looking shots. He has only made a couple of similar attempts in the previous 6 games. So let’s give him a little time to adjust to NBA caliber defenders before we decide he has no one-on-one game. Just consider the adjustments he has had to make just to shoot 3 point shots. He is shooting from a longer distance than in Europe, and shooting with a different ball. It’s would be no surprise if he has neglected his other moves for a few weeks while he has worked on 3 point shooting.

Lastly, even if Roy and Rudy haven’t developed their chemistry yet, Rudy is holding down the fort while Roy rests. In the first 7:02 minutes of the 4th Qtr last night, Rudy made 2 3-pt shots, 3 steals, drew an offensive foul on Jameer Nelson, and dished out 2 assists. We went from 1 behind to 12 ahead in those 7 minutes before Roy took over again to seal the win. Once they begin to dish back and forth to each other in the last 5 minutes of the game we will be able to win a lot of games in the 4th quarter.

You see clearly; the Blazer offense was getting stagnant when Roy “took over” in the fourth quarters. Crisp ball movement will always beat one-man isolation plays, because no man can run as fast as a pass. Thanks for making a great point.

As i said, if i criticize Roy is because I think the offense could be much better. Isos are good but done during a certain time of the game, not for 36 min (when Roy is in). I’m not bashing Roy, just trying to make a constructive critique which has something to do with Rudy… because he adds something different (movement without the ball).

Don’t labl me as a “Spanish biased fan” th x

and have him go down court and see what he can pull off one on one just because it’s the fourth quarter. That happens alot. A real lot. He forced several shots the other night, several with 14 seconds or so left on the 24 while the rest of the team stood around and watched. If the Roy vs the whole other team strategy works so well, let’s just do it for the whole game. Then we can get a huge lead, and maybe then let the rest of the team participate

When you are running an offense with 8-9 guys and it has worked well all game and given you a nice lead, why change that for the last 10 minutes? It is immensely predictable BTW and I would say seemingly unnecessary in games (like this last one) where a well rounded diverse offense was doing just fine. I would agree in a tie game, last possession — iso with your clutch guy…but six possessions in a row when you have the lead? How many of these is he really converting? and at what cost — to his body for example? And to the very style of play that gave you the advantage in the first place?

All those isolation plays ran for Michael Jordan in the 90’s were also a horrible idea. Too bad they never won any titles by doing doing that consistently at the end of hotly contested playoff games.

Seriously, you think Roy is “hogging the ball”? Did it occur to you that:

a) He is by FAR our best individual offensive player. Rudy and LMA are amazing and GO has tremendous potential but it’s still not even close. It makes SENSE to run isolation plays for your best one-on-one player at least some of the time, especially when he’s a phenomenal passer/playmaker like Roy is.

b) He is doing exactly what it takes for our team to win basketball games, and exactly what the coach is telling him to do. It’s not like he’s calling off set plays to run iso’s out of selfishness. If anything, Roy isn’t selfish ENOUGH, and I wish he would be more often.

If you have issues with McMillan’s offensive plan, then welcome to the club. I too believe that we run too many iso’s, that our offense is horribly predictable, that LaMarcus shoots outside too much, and that we are far more dynamic with our second unit, as do a number of people on this site.

But to say that Roy is hogging the ball, is in any way responsible for our offensive woes, or is somehow prejudiced in who he creates shots for, is just spreading propaganda.

Now go back to enjoying the greatest country on Earth. I’d give my right arm to be in Madrid right now instead of hacking away at this computer in Oregon.

Now you know who NOT to speak bad about in this forum, or on any other Blazer forum! You located the right button.

I think Roy carries the same air of invincibility with fans in Portland as Rudy does with fans in Spain. Portland is watching as Roy dominates and puts up one clutch performance after another… all other players are simply background in Roy’s world. From Spain, you are watching Rudy’s every step… you know his game much better than any Portland fan and you’re wondering why he’s not scoring 20+ a game like he did as a virtual hero in his home country with the ACB league. Completely understandable.

Rudy is playing GREAT… and he has been a very instrumental player in Portland’s young season so far. They’d be 2-5 without Rudy… guaranteed. Also, Roy has played GREAT… and he’s the MVP of this team. Without Roy, nothing happens for Portland. I will respectfully disagree that he does not involve his teammates… BRoy often leads the team in assists, and he is always looking to create for others on the floor. I believe Roy to be one of the best team players in the league… they don’t get much more unselfish than Brandon Roy. In fact… I often feel like he doesn’t shoot or look for his own shot enough.

I give you much props for coming in with a bold post like that on your first attempt. Although, I don’t know that you actually realized how bold of a post it was in the first place! This is the same if you were to go into a Cleveland forum and criticize Lebron James. That’s how highly Portland fans hold Brandon Roy.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/11/12/659468/learns-the-x-s-o-s-of-the

I’ve greatly enjoyed the conversation that has come from it by others.

Welcome to BE!

None of those things are fun to watch all the time. Run and gun is great to watch. Run and gun is usually successful when the opposing team is not inspired to play to their fullest potential. To stop it, the defense has to get back quickly to stop the initial surge and set up its half court defence. Some teams rely on the run and gun so much their half court offence suffers. This is why Brandon Roy is so valuable. His control game can break down a half court defense. Without the ability to break down a inspired, well practiced, professional half court defense a teams success is severely limited.

Outlaw taking in the 4th quarter tought shots, missing a lot of them, and Rudy is clutch as anybody. In the beggining of the forth quarter it happened what has happened in almost all the games, portland gets an advantage playing with movement, why don’t we keep playing like that? We won because they didn’t put in the basket most of their shots in the fourth quarter… IMO