Blazer's Opening Day Lineup ...
by Philski on Oct 9, 2008 10:22 AM PDT
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PrintWith Martell out for at least a month, the Blazers have to rethink their lineup. Travis seems like the obvious choice for the starting “3”, but after last night there are certainly a lot of questions.
Travis is an isolation player. His biggest asset is his ability to elevate and get off his “wet” jumper. He is not able to catch and shoot coming off of a screen like Martell. He is not a good perimeter defender like Nicolas Batum appears to be. His ability to create for other teammates is completely non-existent, because he has a little bit of the Zach Randolph “Black Hole” offensive mindset. OK, he probably has a lot of the “Black Hole” offensive mindset. His game is actually pretty well suited to being a sixth man coming off of the bench and looking to score. So why not leave him where he can be most effective ?
Here’s a lineup to consider for the start of the season:
Steve Blake – PG
Rudy Fernandez – SG
Brandon Roy – SF
LaMarcus Aldrige – PF
Greg Oden – C
Why this works:
1) This solves the problem of getting Rudy more minutes
2) This is a way to get both Rudy and Brandon on the floor together, without worrying about either one of them needing to check an opposing PG
What do you think ?
Phil
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i like the idea
… i just worry about the bench w/o rudy…. or maybe there could be rotation so either rudy or roy is on the floor, yet both start?
I’d like to see rudy paired with sergio more in the preseason and see if there’s something to that…
Agreed!
The bench needs Rudy. Yet sometimes I worry about the direction of the offense when the two Spaniards gets too far ahead of themselves… the turnovers kill us.
--
by CaptainSexyJacob on Oct 9, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
The White Unit would play fewer minutes than last year ...
Keep in mind that a lineup with Rudy, Roy, LaMarcus and Greg on the floor for extended minutes, there isn’t going to leave a lot left over for the White Unit. Jerryd, Travis and Channing will be basically coming in for 6 to 8 minutes at a time to give the Starters a rest.
Phil
I also like the idea...
I’m already playing that line-up in my upated roster in NBA live ’08
by chillmanila on Oct 10, 2008 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions
one thing about Rudy
Rudy can stand playing extended minutes. No problem as long as he doesn’t tweak his ankle. He seems to have unlimited stamina and can go go go all the time. This is probably related to his slender frame; he just doesn’t have a lot to carry around so he can play full tilt 40 minutes a game. I suppose we might learn down the road that he can’t play that way for a full season, but for the time being I say give him 35 + minutes per game. So I like the proposed lineup in this fanpost.
Let Outlaw come off the bench to replace Roy and let Trout do his scoring microwave magic with Rudy for awhile. Or bring in Bayless simultaneously to replace Rudy at the 2. Then we’ll have a second unit lineup of Rodriguez, Bayless, Trout, Frye and Pryz.
Looks like it could work. I’d like to see Nate give it a try. Certainly the idea of putting Rudy and Roy together on the first unit is worth a try.
I must admit, watching the Dow tank 500 points on Monday felt something like fun. All those dazed and confused investment bankers walking out of the Lehman Brothers offices with plants in their hands, scared about their future, not knowing how they're going to make rent on their $2,700 studio apartments--it was pretty freakin' sweet. These are the people who are happy to live in the Matrix and go along with the plan.
by bilingual octopus on Oct 9, 2008 10:46 AM PDT reply actions
Rudy has never
played anywhere near 40 mpg.
He’s always gone all out, but he’s always been on somewhat limited minutes. In Spain, they substituted fairly heavily, and isn’t the game only 40 minutes instead of 48 there?
I’ll be happy with 25-30 high quality minutes. We’ve got a ton of talent, even with the injuries.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Another way to analyze the situation:
Which lineup does Trout fit well with? Last night was an indication (not a definitive indication, by any means, but still) that Trout does not mesh well with the first unit.
I think his game might be suited better for the second unit. The main question mark I have is whether Trout’s game meshes ok with Bayless’ game.
And I agree the lineup in this fanpost is sick.
We cannot put up with this flagrant lack of accountability anymore.
Last night only proved that
Trout does not mesh well with the first unit…that is missing Brandon Roy
But in theory I prefer the Rudy lineup with Roy at the 3 better. Brandon has beefed up his shoulders this offseason and will hold his own against most SFs in the post. Plus, I expect either Roy, Blake or Rudy will be in the backcourt during the regular season (and not a combo of Sergio and Bayless coming off the bench…)
Let’s start a 3-guard lineup and see what happens. If nothing else, it will motivate Outlaw to earn his PT
It's going to hurt the D, but I'm not sure how we avoid it
I like the idea. Not so happy about Roy defending SFs, but as long as we orient toward team D, he should be fine.
Outlaw and Rudy shouldn’t play that often together. Rudy’s game is straight up and down TEAM. Outlaw’s is almsot the opposite. Putting the two together nearly negates the talents of both. Now, if Oultaw learns when and how to pass, when to cut, when to jump over the back board for a lob from Rudy, everything changes. Until then, let’s let Oultaw run with individualist type players.
Joel works well because he compensates for defensive mistakes and doesn’t want to much O. Bayless will be fine because he doesn’t need passes to the right spots, and probably will be happy to work on his D. Frye will get a little lost, as he likes the pops, but he’ll endure.
Oultaw, as he played last year, and so far this year, will hinder the success of the starting lineup. I love, love, love Outlaw, but he needs to learn a little team chops. Man, if he does, he’d be INSANE.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Totally agree
The thing about Rudy is he is able to play off of the ball by running off of screens, and with his quick release, is a great catch-and-shoot option for us (similar to what James Jones provided last year, though I wouldn’t expect the same percentage on three’s as JJ had). Travis seems unwilling or incapable of catching and shooting, always preferring to take at least one dribble before firing (as either Ben or Dave, and many others, have pointed out). While Rudy gambles on defense, he still does play at least adequate on-ball ‘D’, something we can’t say of Travis just yet. This will still keep some scoring in the white unit, with a line-up looking something like this…
PG: Sergio (perfect distributor for this line-up. shouldn’t have as many turnovers as last night going against second unit guys part of the time).
SG: Bayless (allows him a little bit more leeway to try and make a play off the dribble playing the ’2’)
SF: Travis (see last season’s production)
PF: Frye (probably our best catch and shoot option on the second unit, and his new found three point range will be a benefit)
C: Przybilla (our “eraser” and “windex man” on the white unit).
I was thinking of the same White Unit
I think Bayless is better suited as a “2” at this point as well, and his size won’t be a problem when he’s matched up against other second unit SG’s. Sergio would actually be a pretty critical part of this group, because he’s the only one who wouldn’t be looking for his shot first. He is also great at pushing tempo, and both Jerryd and Travis like to run.
After watching Rudy play, I’m actually really impressed with his defense. I don’t think Rudy will have a problem checking most of the "2"s in the league, and I think Brandon is big enough to handle any “3” not named LeBron.
When Martell comes back, I think it would be a case of deciding what is working best.
If the White Unit is struggling to move the ball, then maybe it might make sense to try to bring Rudy off of the bench and put Martell back in the starting lineup. However, I think it might be more likely that Martell would move to the White Unit and come off the bench in place of whomever is the least productive between Travis, Jerryd or Channing (with Travis moving back over to the 4). If everything is really clicking, then it might be difficult for Martell to crack the rotation …
The bottom line is that I think Rudy, Brandon, LaMarcus and Greg (once he’s in game shape) all need to get about 35 minutes apiece per game. The Blazers will have the best ball movement with Rudy, Brandon and Steve on the floor together. You put the two of those together, and the starting lineup I suggested falls out.
Phil
this isn't hockey
There will be no white unit “line changes” that bring in all 5 bench players at the same time
It’s much more likely you’ll see either Bayless or Sergio brought in to play alongside Roy, Rudy or Blake then to see them both playing together during the regular season. The only exceptions would be injuries to the starting guards, extreme foul trouble or garbage time.
The rotation will not be 10 deep, at least not until Webster and Frye are available
Lineup
I don’t see why we can’t just start Travis and see how it works. People keep saying that he doesn’t fit well with the starting unit, but he played pretty much every 4th quarter last year with the starting unit. And he looked like he did fine, if not thrived. He’s a very capable jump shooter and i think has the ability to catch and shoot. He’s also a good enough 3 pt shooter to keep defenses honest.
Travis was also the "power forward"
In those late game scenarios, last year. Nate was reluctant to play Joel and LMA together, down the stretch of games, unless it was for a defensive stop
I don’t know if Outlaw can “get it started” in the first quarter (when the shot opportunities will be few) nearly as well as he closed out games against bigger forwards last season
Last year was quite a bit different
The Blazers didn’t have Greg as an option in the low post. They didn’t have Rudy. The Blazers needed someone other than Brandon who could get their own shot.
It might be that at times, Travis will still get some 4th Qtr minutes this year, with Brandon and Rudy in the backcourt, but that will depend a lot on the other team and Steve’s defense. If Steve can consistently keep opposing PG’s in front of him, then he’ll get those 4th Qtr minutes. I think the Blazers will have better options on offense this year than a jab step and a one dribble pull-up 20 ft jumper.
Phil
Philski
Just thinking about this myself.
The only thing I don’t like about your lineup is that it takes Rudy out of the second unit where he jives so well with Sergio. By the same token, I think we both agree that Outlaw is not a viable starter for us at the 3 (or probably for anyone).
Try this:
1 Bayless
2 Blake
3 Roy
4 LMA
5 GO
With the White unit
1 Sergio
2 Rudy
3 Outlaw
4 Ike
5 Pryz
What’s peculiar is that with the addition of Rudy, Travis Outlaw becomes almost irrelevant in the second unit. He was always unfit to start, and now we’re gonna be forced to find a place for him on this team.
Sorry but I just don’t see it. Trade high and package with draft picks or other expendable assets (Frye?) for a veteran sharp-shooting SF and then you can bring Martell off the bench where he obviously has a chemistry match with Sergio and Rudy.
"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"
i like your idea
but i would have steve play the 1 and bayless play the 2 but defend opposite
by blackandwite323 on Oct 9, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
My thoughts exactly
Bayless guards the other 1, for sure. I have good reasons for this starting lineup but I don’t care to enumerate them since I’m only blogging to pass the time before traffic starts to lighten up on I-5.
"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"
Blake guarding a two...
Im not sure I like this lineup because it negates one of the blazers most natural and abundant advantages…size. Having a backcourt of Blake and Bayless is small, and Blake would have trouble with alot of twos. Plus you have Brandon on a 3, which isn’t his natural spot. I think we are better off sticking with bayless and blake on the court seperately. I love the idea of being a good two-three inches up at almost every position.
+1
Ya steve should play the 1. I’m not too much of a fan of bayless distributing right now. I want to see him focus primarily on slashing and getting to the stripe like jack did last year.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I pretty much think they will keep Outlaw in the starting lineup
He didnt always have as abismal of a game as last night. Last season he scored a respectable 14 points when he started (ptb lost the game but thats beside the point) .
I <3 Travis but last night affirms the frustration I feel when I watch him. He needs to step his G up… like now.
Sophia
"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson
I thought you were pro-Batum and therefore anti-Travis!
JK
step it up Travis. now’s the time baby
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
According to James Kunstler, who writes a well-respected if slightly profane financial blog whose title I cannot repeat here, "The Republicans must be clearly identified as the party that wrecked America... it's hard to imagine the American people giving the clean-up task to the very group that created the mess -- no matter how many cute little faces Sarah Palin can make on TV."
I am pro Batum
Travis is a veteran with a great jump shot and nothing else,what you see is what you get and it aint going to get any better in his 6th year.Batman has a much better skill set for this team and in a lot of ways is a better player as a rookie
by southern oregon on Oct 9, 2008 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
wow
i’m surprised that last years fan favorite is already taking a back seat to a new player. its crazy how things have changed. i do like batum, and his skill set does suit the team better, but its too soon to make a verdict on batum or trouts 1 game shooting slump.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
super martell
if martell comes back close to 100% he will have no problem fitting in the starting rotation. i love the way he gets open then runs in everytime a shot goes up to have a chance at a rebound not to mention moves without the ball and i like steals over blocks which he was doing pretty good at and if all i see the rest of the year is allyoops and dunks this year that will be fine with me and martell will be a top4-5 if not higher on the team with those.
nah
Put Rudy on the first unit the way Phil suggests. Start Blake with the first unit too. Never mind Sergio. Play Bayless as the white unit SG until he shows enough aptitude to play white unit point.
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
According to James Kunstler, who writes a well-respected if slightly profane financial blog whose title I cannot repeat here, "The Republicans must be clearly identified as the party that wrecked America... it's hard to imagine the American people giving the clean-up task to the very group that created the mess -- no matter how many cute little faces Sarah Palin can make on TV."
Agree!
I like this linup muchisimo! We will find a way to get the two spaniards minutes together through the course of the game. Maybe it can be a transition from the slower paced starting unit, and then a faster paced bench/starter unit of sergio, rudy, outlaw, aldridge, prizbilla. Or sneak bayless in there at the two and scoot rudy over to the three and get outlaw on the bench, or even in aldridges spot. Moral of the story options options options!
Don't forget the "Big" lineup option
this isn’t a starting unit but it may see some floor time.
PG Blake
SG Roy
SF LMA
PF Frye/Ike
C Oden
People tend to forget that even last year Nate considered using Lma at the 3 as an option. Going big could give all sorts of lineups as both Frye and Lma could potentially play the 3 for stretches. Often we only look at sliding our SG over for a small lineup but It;s not unthinkable to see Lma replace Rudy with sliding back over to the 2 spot.
That’s our versatility advantage.
Wouldn't it make more sense to run Frye at SF?
Aldridge seems like he’s doing fine at PF; no sense in moving him over to SF. Why not just play Frye at SF? He’s made himself more lean and light and he does play a SF style of game (to an extent).
Why not take Frye with our big unit combo?
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
According to James Kunstler, who writes a well-respected if slightly profane financial blog whose title I cannot repeat here, "The Republicans must be clearly identified as the party that wrecked America... it's hard to imagine the American people giving the clean-up task to the very group that created the mess -- no matter how many cute little faces Sarah Palin can make on TV."
Mike Barrett
In his read between the lines kind of way is saying Channing will be playing before the opener and will see some time at the 3 while Martell is down.
by southern oregon on Oct 10, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
we are pretty damn versatile
we’ve even shown this year we could pick up the pace and be effective.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to be a downer
But this really points out how nicely Martell fit into the first team. The two line-ups looked really nice the way they were. I’m sure we’ll have other good solutions, but it just makes you appreciate what this team is like without injuries.
Claire Redfield dunk shot: missed
Claire Redfield Off Rebound (5 REB)
Claire Redfield jump hook shot: made (26 PTS)
this is completely accurate
I was at Tuesday’s game and I noticed before he started scoring how well he was playing. He was on the boards and very active on defense. Then he nailed a three from the corner. It was a thing of beauty. He fits great with the starting lineup, but I can’t really see anyone else on the squad being as productive with that time. Outlaw is in love with his jump shot and has forgotten he is playing a team sport. Rudy is a great spark off the bench. He fits better with the faster second unit. The best choice is Martell…dang it.
by The Natural ala Mode on Oct 9, 2008 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
to be fair to trout
last year his role was to SCORE, and to take many shots. he had nates blessing to do so. i’m not sure if nate wants him to do that anymore or if he is still ok with it. if nate is ok with trout taking a bunch of shots, then thats his call. if nate wants him to play within the offense, then i’ll let trout take a few months to adjust his game to that. everyone panicked when sergio played poorly last year, but lack of minutes was a big factor. now that he has had a lot of minutes like he had his rookie year, he became more productive. sure offseason workouts played an effect as well.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Greg and Rudy
Need to spend as much time as possible playing together. Out of all of our Bigs, Greg has the highest chance of catching Rudy’s post entry passes and successfully dunking them.
If Rudy and Przybilla play together, I think we are going to see a lot of spectacular passes bouncing off of the Vanilla Gorilla’s stone hands.
Let's get guys into their natural positions!
When I look at our roster, I see two guys who play point and only point: Blake and Sergio (who has definitely improved). Obviously the frontcourt looks solid with Oden/Joel (Hill) at the 5 and Aldridge/Frye (Ike) at 4. Batum has really impressed me as well, and he and Trout are solely 3’s. That’s two deep at every position but #2. Fortunately, I still haven’t talked about Roy, Rudi, or Bayless.
Rudi and Roy are said to be able to play 1,2, or 3, which is just a huge advantage in flexibility.
The key point I’d like to make is, I’ve seen enough of Jerryd Bayless to say that, with Blake, Sergio, Roy and Bayless all able to handle the ball and play the point, I see no reason to try to fit Bayless into a 1. He is a lifelong 2 who played 1 his last year in college, and got away with it, as in the summer league, because he is a slasher who is able to drive when there aren’t 4 or 5 guys bigger than he is in the lane… (a couple of whom are as quick)
So I’d like to propose a starting lineup, until Martell gets back, of:
Blake, Roy, BATUM, Aldridge, and Oden.
Batman can play great D from the opening tap, and hopefully get the opposing 3 off on a bad note. The other team is not going to pick on the rookie, because he’s a great defender.
This lets us have a second unit consisting primarily of:
Sergio, Rudy, Outlaw, Frye, and Joel.
This gets Sergio and Rudy together, and Outlaw coming off the bench where he is seemingly happiest and most effective. Now, I’m not suggesting the hockey 5 man swap, I realize there would be transition to this. And that’s where a Rudy/Roy come in handy, and Bayless can get his minutes.
In other words, we can play any number of combinations with four guys that can play 1,2, and 3. So if we start Blake/Roy/Batum, we can bring Rudy in for Batum. Then bring in Bayless for Roy, and Sergio for Blake… or Outlaw for Rudi, in whatever order situations dictate.
Then to get back to the starters, bring in Brandon at point to pair with any of the other 3 2’s (I think Bayless would love Roy’s dishes in the wing), then bring in Blake, and move Brandon to the 2, etc…
But by starting Batum, we don’t need to have Roy or Rudy take that many minutes at the 3, just transitional ones during brief periods of three guard offense. And we’re not losing anything with Batum in there with four other very good offensive starters, and we’re gaining an effective TO off the bench…
The other thing I’d like to say is that Travis, Bayless, Roy, and Sergio all seem extremely streaky to me. Which is fine, as long as Nate can recognize who has the hot hand early, and tilt the minutes toward them. It should be very rare that we have anybody shooting 1-10 or more on this team….
Whaddyathink?
I would like to see Outlaw's reaction
When he hears that a 19 year old rookie from France is starting ahead of him at the 3
Some ideas are good in theory, but will not work in the real world
I thought the same thing
And not in an anti-Travis sort of way but its time for him to put up or shut up about being a starter.
by southern oregon on Oct 10, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
how about this :)
blake
roy
outlaw
aldridge
Oden
outlaw first to sit, in comes rudy for brandon, brandon moves to the three…. then blake sits sergio comes in for blake, then frye in for brandon,……travis back up off the bench, in for frye at the 3, frye moves to the 4 aldridge sits…..bayless off the bench for rudy, …greg sits joel in…so now we got,
sergio
bayless
travis
frye
joel
too much run for travis? mmmm….nate’s job is gonna be fun this year.
"You just WATCHED history No need to study it! You LIVED it."
Mortimer
Start Outlaw
Going into training camp, he was fighting with Martell for the starting position. I don’t think one exhibition game will change Nate’s opinion of Outlaw.
Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision and a poet's heart.
Trout will start
But Nate does have the option of Batum first one off the bench if he is geting abused
by southern oregon on Oct 10, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I would prefer not to depend on Nic defending Kobe or Vujacic when the Lakers go to a three guard lineup again :)
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
I would prefer not to see Travis defend Kobe
But you got to run what you brung. Tasking young Nic with guarding him would be teaching the kid to swim by throwing him in the deep end for sure but if he comes up swiming we have a winner.
by southern oregon on Oct 10, 2008 12:22 PM PDT reply actions
On-the-ball Defense wouldn't be my biggest concern
Travis does a decent enough job of staying with someone once they face up against him, but he has problems with rotations and losing his man when he’s playing off of the ball. Nicolas Batum, on the other hand, really seems to understand how to play his man, deny the ball and get in passing lanes. He doesn’t get out of position. I just assumed that the Blazers were going to be too deep for Nicolas to get any playing time this year. However, if he continues to play well in pre-Season, he could earn some minutes.
I think that Travis will need to start becoming more than just a one-dimensional player. The Blazers really needed his ability to create his own shot last year, but I think the Blazers are going to have a much different offense in the 4th Quarter this year.
Phil
He has faced some good guys in international play
Gallinari (Milan), Beasley (U19), Omri Caspi (Macabi), etc. He has all the tools to be really good over time, but playing this caliber of guys on opening night is still a very big step up with a lot of responsibility very early on in his NBA career. I doubt Nate would do that, when he has other options (Outlaw, moving Roy over and starting Rudy on 2, moving Frye over if healthy enough again and the Lakers go with Odom).
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
On courtside, Nate said he looks into all options to compensate for Martell
But it sounded like Rudy, Roy or Travis is the way to go for the starting lineup. With Nic maybe getting some backup minutes to Travis.
Nate (asked on Nic and the
three spot).
“Awful young, awful young, but we have to look at that. We have to look at Nicholas. We have to look at Travis. We have to look at Rudy, possibly, in that lineup with Brandon and a guard. You know, so right now everything is in the air…” “I think Travis and Rudy possibly in that starting lineup is right now at the top of the list. And then Nicolas coming in, possibly, and playing some backup small forward. But we definitely will see a Brandon – Rudy combination at the two – three early in the season”.
http://fans.trailblazers.com/mp3/NateOnCourtside100908.mp3
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
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