travis outlaw
by BLAZERS#52 on Oct 8, 2008 9:44 PM PDT
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Printok hear me out i was listening to the msp this morning and they were saying how travis is a one trick pony and after listening to what they had to say and seeing him play tonight i agree i think we should package him with rlec and get what we need most srry if i mad any one angry or upset that i posted this now insted of later in the season i just wanted to put this out there to what kind of reaction it would get
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Someone needs to teach him
how to catch and shoot. No matter how wide open he is, he ALWAYS takes a couple of dribbles before taking a shot. His offense comes independent of the teams offense. He was great on last years team because we needed guys like that. With the talent we have now, we don’t need a black hole type of player. I’d love to explore trade possibilities.
ehh
its 2 preseason games…just relax. his ability to create his own shot is still something that this team can use. if we were gonna trade him it woulda been in the off season when his stock would have been at an all time high.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
He definitely will need time to find into the role of a starting small forward
Today, he was no help. No team leader. On the contrary, he pulled the other guys down with some wild jumpers instead of trying to create something useful, making them also more nervous. Today, Batum > Outlaw. Over the course of a season, of course he is not ready yet. And he was not the only one who looked less than stellar in that game. Same for Bayless, Joel, …
But yeah, my money is on an upgrade at SF at the deadline or in the off-season.
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
Batum and Luke Jackson were both > Outlaw today
Outlaw was really awful tonight.
You guys are a joke, quit overreacting off 1 pre-season game
Outlaw is one of our best players, our best athlete, is young and very cheap.
Every once in a while he just doesn’t bring it and has a bad night and tonight was that.
It’s the freaking pre-season — quit being irrational and judge him by his body of work and not just tonight.
Can "No better then fifth best" really be considered "One of our best players"?
I mean, Oden, Rudy, Roy, and Aldridge are all better then him at the very least. I really can’t call someone in the 66th percentile of “Best player on the team” one of our best players.
54!
No better than 5th best...
… usually means he’s a starter.
And that’s 33rd pecentile. Check your math.
hakkaa päälle !
I didn't mean to "score" on someone.
I do have the habit of being abrupt. Maybe it’s because of what happened as a child. My dad used to check my math homework (all my homework really). I always did math in pencil because I could then erase mistakes without having to recopy the whole thing over. My dad would run down the problems and would mark the ones incorrect with an x – in ink. Even if I only had a single answer wrong out of 15 or 20, I’d have to do the whole thing over.
(He does crossword puzzles in ink too. )
One of the lesson learned – get it right the first time.
hakkaa päälle !
That's not cool
Who cares if your homework is wrong? America only cares about tests.
Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision
Sorry to burst your bubble
Being 5th out of 15 (if that’s truly the case) makes Travis in the 66th percentile.
That means he is better than 66% of the whole team.
But hey, I’m no math teacher, oh wait, yes I am.
I stand corrected.
But then math was never by best subject. I had to get a tutor to help me with the calculus in Atmospheric Physics.
hakkaa päälle !
huh?
5/15 = .333
Its takes “5” to make up the .333 as in 5 players out of our 15 are in the .333
Travis is top 5. Traivs is in the .333
Travis is better than 66% of the team because he is part of the 33%.
timg56 was right. Go back to school teacher.
by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
one shouldn't be so defiant when one is wrong.
but in statistical evalutions, such as in standardized testing, a person is always put in the percentile that they are ABOVE. i.e. if your kid is the top 20% of math students in the state on a test, then the test results say he or she is in the 80th percentile. The original user of the "66th percentile’ argument had it correct, as did BlazerHomer
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
furthermore
If we accept the premise that Travis is in the top 5 of 15 players on the Blazer roster, than you could said either:
“Travis is in the 66th percentile of top Blazer players”
OR
“Travis is in the top 33% of Blazers players”
OR
“Travis is in the top 1/3 of Blazer players”
These statements are essentially equivalent.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Oct 9, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
thank you
The so-called rational people on this site always let their ego undermine what they say…Most of the time I’m not smart enough to argue, but I also don’t want to get into a battle over what’s rational and what (they) consider is not….Everyone has opinions and they don’t need them to be rationalized by people who don’t have the qualifications…
by 67 on Oct 9, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions
hmm, makes sense
Sorry BlazerHomer! Add lack of knowledge regarding how to phrase statistical percentages concerning the rating of Travis Outlaw to the long list of my faults. “Foot in Mouth” being at the top of the list..
by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
66th percentile Indeed
As in Greg Oden is in the 99th percentile for height amongst all man-children.
Thanks for the support - but I was wrong.
BlazerHomer is correct with his usage of the term percentile. If you finish in the 90th percentile on the SAT’s you are among the highest scoring 10% of students who took the test.
hakkaa päälle !
I think that's what they're doing.
A rational assessment of his talents leads to the conclusion that he doesn’t quite fit in. An irrational love of the dude (I love him too) leads you to ignore those conclusions. Check and Mate!!!!
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
finally someone put this in the right perspective
And (I’m no math whiz either) ….But using it to evaluate talent (and team worth) makes little sense at all……No matter how you do the math, to make your point fit
by 67 on Oct 9, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
#25
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on Oct 8, 2008 10:05 PM PDT reply actions
fit
Outlaw is a good player without a doubt. Clearly tonight was an off night.
However, I think there is room for some mild concern at this point. An unemotional look at the facts shows that he is below average at passing, rebounding, man on man defense, driving, and man on man defense. he is above average at creating his own pull up jump shot in traffic. He is essentially an offensive black hole. For a guy with his athleticism, disproportionally few of his buckets come at the rim.
Outlaw has a lot of talent. he could likely score 20 points a game on a lottery team. but we aren’t a lottery team, and we have a lot of other guys. What we need to see from Outlaw the first 40 games this year is how he FITS into the rest of this team. How does he fit into a starting lineup when he goes from being the #1 option to being the #4 option and a guy who will get a lot of swing passes for spot up jump shots. How will he fit into a 2nd unit that appears to be very energetic and focused on ball and player movement. I’m not saying he can’t fit into either of those units, but we haven’t seen that kind of game from Outlaw yet. I say he’s got 40 games to show us.
Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.
by douglast on Oct 8, 2008 10:14 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I absolutely hate Travis' game
he can’t dribble
he can’t pass
he loses track of his man
he shots two pointers with his toes on the line
—-
Despite all this, I would only move him if the trade was clearly in our favor. He’s drastically improved in the last couple years. He is an amazing athlete and developed into a very solid shooter and scorer last year. He’s very valuable because he can create his own shot better than anyone on the team other than Roy (at least last year, we’ll see if Rudy or Bayless or someone passes him).
One game is one game. Its not reason for concern.
Boomshakalaka
Another analysis based on one game
I love Portland, not just the Trailblazers, but also the city. At the same time, Blazer fans (myself included sometimes) are nuts. Talking about trading Outlaw after a bad preseason game? Seriously? There’s no way we get anybody that fits our system better or makes us better now or in the future than Outlaw. All of this overreaction leads me to one conclusion:
Portland needs a girlfriend.
Seriously. Call that snooty Salem chick, or maybe slum it up with Kelso. Whatever it takes, just get out of your own head, Portland.
Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.
by Clevelander among roses on Oct 8, 2008 10:25 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
+1!
Although slumming it up with Kelso is what begat La Center and Woodland, so be sure to use protection or we could end up with a little Kalama… oops.
+1 to your +1
that really did make me laugh
by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 6:23 AM PDT up reply actions
we've been debating trading Outlaw
since the beginning of the summer. And what he’s shown in the pre-season games is pretty much what he does in the regular season too. I think his fourth quarter heroics last season elevated him in everyone’s mind, probably disproportionate to his actual ability. I think douglast and jksnake99 pretty much have it right.
He wasn't talking about 1 game, he was talking about his style of play
not sure if you noticed that or not. Maybe Portland’s the guy you think is a jerk because he always thinks he’s right, you disagree, and then you hate him more when you find out he’s right.
Man, I need to get out of my own head. There’s a lot of room in here if someone wants to move in. I’ll consider trades. Ocean view, hot water, plenty of heat, and rose colored vision. Below market rent. Lease to own considered.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Travis was just sad his buddy Marty got hurt
And that people like Rudy better,
by Sabonis4Ever on Oct 8, 2008 10:40 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Not just one game.
There has been talk about getting rid of Travis the whole off-season. Travis has done nothing over the last two games besides reinforce already well established opinions regarding his general game.
There is a certain amount of love for Travis on this site, and people counter any criticism of Trout by saying, “#25,” like his number has anything to do with his value to the team.
Travis is incredibly athletic, and has been like able since we first saw him at a spindly 17. That being said, Travis has been largely over-rated based on one great shot. Yeah, I said it… one shot.
He is bait. Good bait.
Hmmmmm !
Perhaps. I think 3M is our long term answer at
SF, unless RLEC & ?
COINCAST SUCKS !!!! GET A DEAL DONE, NOW !!
WHY IS CHARTER COMM. OUR ONLY CABLE OPTION ??
It's GO time !
monopoly
utilities and cable companies are usually legal monopolies.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I've always been open to trading Outlaw
I think it is an overreaction for anyone to change their mind about Outlaw in one pre-season game. With that said, I have never been a big fan of Outlaw’s game. He is an inefficient scorer and a mediocre defender. Inefficient scorers will lose you more games than win them. For some reason, inefficient scorers are valued around the league, so if we can get a good asset coming back, I would be completely in favor of it.
People need to face this reality, Outlaw is a veteran in this league. His game is not going to evolve much from this point forward. Potential is no longer a word that should be associated with Outlaw.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
agreed
i was open to trading outlaw last year too. i figured with greg and rudy coming over, he’d sort of take a back seat this year compared to last. despite that, wanting to trade him because of poor play in 1 preseason game is a little drastic. remember last year when trout came to camp out of shape? maybe he just needs some time to get back in the swing of things.
last year he drove me crazy with his poor shot selection…yet he was successful for the most part. now he just looks like a fool with the crazy shot selection when its not falling. trout will get back to form by the seasons start i’m sure of it.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 12:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Looking for a place to chime in
So I’m sorry if it ended up here…..I have never been am Outlaw fan (or Webster for that matter)….Outlaws game has too many downsides that are important parts of basketball….he is outrageously athletic and that is the reason he is in the NBA…..So far the only reason
If they are looking for Outlaw to win games for them at crunch time, we are in deep doo doo….
This guy has an extremely low basketball IQ and this will always hurt his ability to get better and learn more about the game….He always takes them out of team play and is becoming the new black hole on this team (Randolph),,,unfortunately we are vested in him and trading him + others for quality does not look possible at this time….
He is missing so many good basketball qualities that may not be teachable given his narrow mindset……he doesn’t even hustle, lacks instincts, and may be the poorest conditioned player on the team….he has only been good (not brilliant) in spots…. and if you put his play in the context of the team, it becomes a liability…..We no longer need him on this team…We have other better players…that should play over him….Look how the team played with Batum in the game….They were a team….
One other thing…Outlaw never drives,slashes, or cuts to the hoop…its all jump shots…And the block he got in last nights game was funny…he whacks it strong out of bounds (no possession) and the only reason he was there to make the block, is because he completely lost his man….
If the guy had went to college he may have learned something…teaching him the fundamentals in pro ball have proved futile……He just don’t get it …..and the way Nate is letting him try and play it out won’t help either…..he is lost out there and it show
Other thoughts:
Batum is a player and will do more for this team in the long run than Outlaw and Web combined
Bayless is totally lost at point guard….Don’t see that this will be a position for him(except defensively) (How long can we wait to allow more time and not give those minutes to Sergio?) Roy and Rudy are also way better at getting the offense started
Rudy is just what this team needed….he compliments everything on the court
by 67 on Oct 9, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
HOLD UP!
it was just one game. please dont give him the jarrett jack treatment and cast him out of rip city after one poor shooting night.
i agree it was terrible performance but troutlaw, mr 4th quarter, is better than that. i think webster, frye, sergio, outlaw, ike, and a few others are always open for trading but please dont outcast outlaw just yet.
everyone outside of the big 3 (maybe big 4 + rudy?)
is open to trading IMO. Even trout, if the deal is right. We shouldnt be motivated to get anyone off our team however. Everyone is progressing and playing fine, including outlaw. I hate how people overreact after 1 bad game. If we are gonna trade him, its because we could get a better player. We should not trade him bc of an after reaction to 1 game however. Hell a preseason game at that.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Again...
One game. Travis is our 6th man, mr 4th quarter. I agree he looked horrible out there, but he also has a new role on the team as starting SF in place of Webster. Wait until a little later this season and see what happens. One pre-season game is not worth throwing out one of our best and mos loved players. Let this team come together and if someone is not fitting in, THEN we trade him.
I love me some Trout.
I would hate to see him go, just because of my blind love for everyone of this team, especially a personality so unique like his. That being said, I’m sure he will get shopped around with RLEC, just because his stock is high and he is a sexy player right now in the league. I’m sure KP knows not to dump him and give up on him after one bad PRESEASON game, but given his relatively high stock right now, the probability that Marty is going to improve ( assuming he recovers fully from his stress fx ), and Batum playing better than expected, I’ll bet Trout is more likely to be traded than most. However, I trust KP to make the right decision, and believe wholeheartedly that if we ship Trout, as painful as it would be, KP would be making a trade that is good for the team…also I have absolutely no say in the matter so I don’t have to worry.
by oden is GOD OF WAR on Oct 8, 2008 11:11 PM PDT reply actions
trout trouble
I would agree about not judging Travis based on one night of poor shooting. But pay attention to what the posters are saying. The problems we saw tonight with Travis had to do with more than poor shooting. He floats outside the flow of the game both offensively and defensively. With Europeans, who are generally more team oriented, on the squad, Travis’ poor fundamentals will become more glaring.
I think Rudy will have that effect in general. To encourage team mindedness through cuts and movement and awareness. He has a rare feel for the game of basketball.
Travis will have to adapt or see his minutes diminish.
trout is still vital
he is clutch, and he can bring something to the table that most of our guys cant…the abilty to create their own shots. there will be times where this is useful (esp with Pryz in the lineup). i think trout may not be the man he was last year (partly bc he was so successful as a 4 in the 4th quarter) and the dynamic of the 2nd unit is slightly different now.
i wasnt impressed with trout in the kings game offensively…but he still got active in other parts of the game, areas where i felt he was weak in before. so i was happy to see him improve in those areas. he hasnt made m/any questionable errors related to his “lack” of bball iq so far this year too.
this year id love for trout to – maintain his weak side help defense, improve his man defense, pass the ball a bit more, and learn to catch and shoot. i’m not gonna knock on his shot selection, bc as we all know he can make a bucket even taking a horrible shot.
You can't do that
You can’t say that you’re not going to knock the guy for his shot selection, and then admit that he takes horrible shots. It just doesn’t make sense. Your point about him being among the only players on the team that can create their own shot, is no longer valid. Jerryd Bayless and Rudy Fernandez are both more than capable of getting the same shots that Outlaw can get. The only difference, at least in Rudy’s case, is that he’s better at making those shots, and plays within the offense.
I just think with our overall talent level, playing as a team on offense in our second unit will get us much higher quality shots than leaving things up to TO in isolation. He detracts from other players offense, and minimizes points per possession when he takes the show over. He also isn’t an elite defender, something he should be by this point. Despite all of this, I absolutely love watching the man play basketball. He’s an athletic freak, and makes plays you think are impossible. I found myself trying to be quiet around my friends tonight watching the game. Its so frustrating watching a guy with so much obvious talent, mismanage it like he does. Its not Nate’s fault either though. He taught Travis Outlaw how to be an effective second unit player on last years team, void of talent. Travis Outlaw in isolation was better than anything else we had. This year, that simply isn’t the case.
Travis Outlaw in isolation was better than anything else we had
Assuming Brandon Roy was double-teamed or not in the ballgame
This is the problem
if Travis is our best isolation player then we should change our style…This is a team sport and we showed last night that isolation is not our best choice of plays….( If it is, then Nate will continue to lose points in my favor ….what was he working on? Outlaw’s offensive skill to pull the game out in the end even if he went 5 for 5, the team wasted 3 minutes of the game they could have been working on team flow and set plays).
If he misses shots out of the flow of the game, then I could care less….He’s breaks the flow every time he gets the ball…it’s a jump shot or nothing.
Did you see the flow of the game with Rudy and Batum in there….. it was fun to watch…. Travis can’t get into the flow because he is only in there to throw up jump shots….
this team is changing with new players …now it has to change it’s style of play to move to the next step. players have to adjust and be able to play when other players are not in the game…..it’s called versatility …..every night other teams will look to stop what we do, and defending a player in isolation is easier than guarding the whole team…..Good teams can easily stop Travis…because he has a lot of weaknesses to take advantage of, and he did catch some teams off guard last year….The %’s that he will beat you and taking advantage of his weakness to offset any offense, he supplies, will always measure out by the end of the game
by 67 on Oct 9, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
crunch time offense
It is what it is, whether you like ball movement or not, what gets the job done at the end of the game is to have a superior player beat his man off the dribble (or post up) and either score, get fouled or hit a wide open shooter.
Roy can do those things, but…the opponent knows this, so they will attempt to take Brandon out of the play so it becomes necessary to have a 2nd player who will 1) not “run away from the ball” in pressure situations, and 2) has the ability to get his own shot off, especially when the offensive play breaks down.
There was a perfect example of this in the Memphis game last year, and it set Travis up to be the “go-to” guy in the Altanta game, later. In other games, Roy passed the ball to Outlaw who generally hit the open shot. That’s a “presense” you can’t teach.
Woody Allen actually wrote an article for SI back in the 79s about Earl Monroe that talked about this. Some players just have the abiltiy to not choke, and it has nothing to do with basketball IQ or intelligence. They just let it fly and don’t worry about the consequences.
I think Travis has value as this kind of player, but in the long run for the Blazers, the Roy/Oden/Rudy combo will make Outlaw “less necessary” than he was in ’07
yes this is where his value is
No argument there…But it is also where his value ends, and like you say we have other players that may make this team good enough to prevent needing a crunch time (and very one dimensional player like Outlaw) ….The scenario (that having the lead at the end of the game) will allow you to put more defensive players in the game or ones that can take care of the ball or can still score if necessary, out of the flow of the offense………His value is diminishing and I think you said that…..
Right now, it is what we have and I would hope it would translate into something less desperate in the future play of this team,,,so I guess most people, that are commenting in this post, wonder if Outlaw is in the future…… or if this team is successful, will Outlaw be a major part of the success.
by 67 on Oct 9, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup
I totally agree. He does not have a basketball IQ. He only does a few things. I like him. But I really hope one of those few things he does includes gets us somebody who fits us better.
Not a good night
I was at the game, and he looked really out of it. The crowd seemed to gasp when he went up for those sky jump shots. He still has tons of upside, but tonight was really a setback. I feel that Batum really made him look like he should be playing better after so many years in the league. He had some good rebounds though.
Ugggh, I really am not a Trout fan right now.
hmmmkay
i was ready to scream with excitement
when rudy fed him the ball on a fast break i think it was, and trout just dunked the ball so violently that it just bounced off the rim. seeing him elevate like that had me anticipate the play being on sports center top 10…then i was just disappointed that he missed it.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions
"He still has tons of upside"
Really? What’s the upside? Jump higher, shoot more?
What skill sets does he have a realistic shot at developing other than jumping and shooting?
In one aspect Travis is like the anti-Roy: Shot selection
You very rarely see Roy take a bad shot. And when he gets the ball and decides to move, he usually moves into a better position. Travis is the exact opposite. Somehow he is able to shoot the ball quite effectively off the dribble but not when catching and shooting (only in the two corners a little bit). And somehow he often moves himself into a worse situation than just taking the shot he would have had when immediately going up, instead dribbling into three defenders and then going up for a fallaway jumper or something.
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
its early
the good thing is that its happening in preseason and i doubt the coaching staff will let him just float around and take 16 foot jumpers all day.
rudy was able to find a slashing martell the first game and if the coaching staff can help outlaw get into that im sure trout has a little jump in him. :]
man it annoying posting b4 you're ready!
Travis clearly was having an off night, that is NOT reason to start talking about trading him. I’m more worried about him must standing around watching Rudy and Sergio run past him on every play. Can he even play with those two? They think and their bodies react; Travis thinks and five seconds later his body say’s “whaaaaaaaaa?”.
by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions
i dunno if its just travis
but most of the people on the team was just standing around yesterday. there wasnt nearly as much off the ball movement as there was against the kings. nothing for our distributers to work with considering our jump shots werent falling.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Only the second game into the pre-season and we already have
trade talk.
Some people are priceless.
hakkaa päälle !
what's wrong with that
I think that we all know what the goal is, we want to succeed. We now have some scary players, and all of a sudden Travis is looking pretty darn one dimentional. I think it’s very well within everyones rights to consider the possibilities of trading Travis, especially when we all know how big of a trading piece that would be with RLEC to get us another awesome baller. A lock down defender (which Travis is not) that knows how to distribute the ball (which Travis does not), someone like Shane Battier perhaps??? We don’t have that Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier type right now, and that is our missing piece. RLEC + Trout + some throw ins will obviously net that. We have the potential to get a lot acomplished this year, why not figure out a way to get the most done.
myspace.com/marktwainindians
Who would you get?
Battier is not going anywhere because Houston is making a run and Bowen is old.
Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision
They have artest now
Don’t you think that Battier is going to become a little less important. You give them RLEC and Travis, you make it work. It would have to be a crafty trade because RLEC is worth twice what Shane’s contract is worth. It would probably have to be some crazy 3 way trade, but you have to remember that Houston has a WAY SMALLER window than us, and that expiring contract would help them tremendously in getting a free agent next summer to help take them to the promise land (or at least give it the old college try)… T
myspace.com/marktwainindians
They got their free agent last summer
They are better with Artest and Battier than they would be with an expiring contract, a shoot first small forward, and change. Houston made its moves for a championship over the summer.
Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision
The only reason our window is larger than others
is because we HAVE young players that are good. So quit trying to trade them away from old & moldy players.
by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions
You guys are assuming
Travis is going to get any better. If this is as good as he gets, it’s not good enough to warrant taking shots from Roy, Oden, LMA, or Rudy. Take away Travis’ jump shot, and what does he have? He doesn’t pass well, doesn’t defend well, and does nothing else noteable off the ball. Sorry guys, but I really do think it’s time to sell high on TO. I’m not saying I hate the guy, nor am I saying I won’t root for him while he’s wearing red and black, I’m just saying I don’t think he fit’s in the long run. Sorry you all don’t agree with me, but I still love ya!
myspace.com/marktwainindians
I agree with you
And its not because he shot poorly in last nights game….Batum is better for this team than him….We don’t need his scoring because we have better overall players that can score….he is only in this league because he is athletic…but he never uses that skill to his best advantage…his Basketball IQ is rock bottom and thus teaching him the missing fundamentals is impossible…They need to get Batum minutes (he looks to be worth investing in) A trade for a veteran 3 would be OK…even if it is not the player that fills the role in the future…(Batum would benefit from playing behind an established 3)
by 67 on Oct 9, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Batum will be our Battier
But there are other upgrades out there…
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
Here is what's wrong:
“all of a sudden Travis is looking pretty darn one dimentional.” – Which amounts to instant analysis based on one datum point (and not a very reliable datum point at that.)
“especially when we all know how big of a trading piece that would be with RLEC to get us another awesome baller.” – An assumption that is not very well founded or thought out. If Travis is so one dimensional, why would he be a big trading piece? Why would some other GM trade an awesome baller for 1-D Travis? You can’t have it both ways. That’s like McCain saying he’ll balance the budget without raising taxes while we fight a war.
It is not a question of one’s right. Everyone has the right to their opinion. That doesn’t mean every opinion is of equal worth. Making an analysis and reaching a conclusion from a single piece of information is not what I consider to be a sign of clear, intelligent thinking. In fact I’d say the phrase “jumping to conclusions” pretty much describes it.
Maybe I’m just quirky, but I happen to value critical thinking.
hakkaa päälle !
RLEC?
Raef? who is rlec btw? how did whoever got that name get it?
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
sweet
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
All of a sudden?
He has always been one dimentional
by southern oregon on Oct 9, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
im saying
he is a one trick pony all he can do is shoot i payed extra attention to him last night almost ever single time he got the ball he shot and he only made one basket you would think if he knew it was not his night he would try to create for someone else but no shot after shot after shot miss after miss after miss we should be asking around now to see what we could get for him just in case things dont improve
It is somewhat valid to question Outlaw cotinuing to shoot
when his shot was not dropping. But only somewhat, unless you have all the information available.
For example, we don’t know what Nate’s instructions to Travis were. He could have been told to shoot it whenever he was open. We also have to consider that if Travis is a “shooter”, then we have to live with a shooter’s mentality. And that is that the very next shot will hit nothing but twine and then everything starts going in. (I remember watching Kevin Grevey as a Bullet. He never let a bad night stop him from shooting. Thing is, he had the green light from his coach, who knew that when he started hitting them, no one could stop him.)
If Outlaw is truly just a one trick pony and that trick is instant offense off the bench, then it makes sense to argue he’s not a good fit as the starting SF on this team. It’s not justification to start calling for him to be traded. He’s not being overpaid, he’s not a bad influence and there is nothing wrong with having a scorer who can get his shot anytime coming off the bench.
hakkaa päälle !
by timg56 on Oct 9, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
C'mon people
Travis is honestly expendable now that we have Rudy on the team. Travis wants to be the man, he said so in his Quick interview this summer. He won’t ever be the man on this team, and certainly won’t be the man on the “white unit” now that Rudy is here (and obviously 1,000 times the baller that Outlaw is in every aspect)… I think it’s a fair thing to say it’s time to sell high on Travis this season. Shoot, we saw how awesome Marty played on Tuesday, when he comes back we have our SF. Until then, I like Gavin Dawsons idea of starting Roy at SF, and Rudy at SG. For the record, I’m not just saying this now. I completely agree with what Dawson was talking about yesterday morning. We have WAY TOO MANY people on this team who can play, and we absolutely have to trim the fat in order to become a consistent well oiled unit. We can’t have a 14 player rotation, as much as some of you want that. It simply doesn’t work. If you think it does, name me ONE championship team that had more than a solid 8-10 man rotation (10 seriously being the most I can imagine)… I think Travis is one of our best tradeable assets, he would survive well on a team where he would be a 2nd or 3rd option of offense (a lottery team), and that will no longer ever be this team. Love the kid, but we need to think about the future, and the future is now. We don’t need to wait another 4 years for players to develop. And while I’m on the subject, if I hear one more person say anything about waiting for Travis to develop I’m going to go postal. He’s been in the league 5 years (this is his 6th)!!! I think we’ve seen what he can do at this point, he’s not suddenly going to turn into, um, Rudy Fernandez!
myspace.com/marktwainindians
anyone who says "the future is now"
is setting themselves up for a major let down. We’re the second (?) youngest team, but really the youngest (RLEC holds us up). The future is still in the future. Like it or not this is still a learning year. We’re not there yet, we’re not going to win a championship this year, and we only “might” make the playoffs. You don’t dump your good players that been here and know the system because a rookie plays good in one pre-season game.
by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions
i couldn't disagree with you more
I think setting this year up as a learning year is a huge mistake. Last year was a learning year. Of course there is a learning curve this year, but there is no reason why we can’t compete for a playoff spot and then see what happens. I’m not talking about trading away Oden for Shaq to win NOW (not that we would, but you get my point)… I just think a savy vet in his late 20’s, maybe 30, that we’d get a good 4-5 years out of would be a very smart decision at this point. Someone who’s been through the fire and can lead with there experience. Sorry you disagree. You keep your expectations low, I’ll keep mine high, and we’ll both love the Blazers.
myspace.com/marktwainindians
Measure twice and cut once
KP is building a team based on how they fit with Oden, Roy, and LA. Oden’s only good for 20 minutes a night now and Roy is taking it easy as his knee recovers. There should be no trade talk until the Blazers play GAMES THAT MATTER. Injuries happen and KP needs to know how deep the bench really is. This is a developmental/evaluation season with expectations of going to the playoffs. It is not a championship run. The season hasn’t even started and KP has only past years to evaluate players to trade for. Time is on our side.
Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision
by tominhawaii on Oct 9, 2008 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Arg, Tom just posted while i was writing and
he nailed everything i wanted to say.
MTwain, my expectations are not low in any sense of the word. I fully expect us to be a better team this year than we were last. My points was that we should not be jumping to conclusions and trading players away based on some good rookie games. And why trade our guys for a vet that can give us 4-5 good years when we could keep ours for 8-9 good years?
by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions
We have WAY TOO MANY people on this team who can play
At the rate that Blazers are dropping with injuries, you (and Gavin) may have to re-evaluate this statement
by two4larue on Oct 9, 2008 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Give Travis time to slide into his zpne
I agree that the deficiencies in Travis’ game are disconcerting, esp in light of the fact that Travis is now entering his sixth season in the NBA. Poor ball handling, average to below average passing skills, something of a shot hog.
Nevertheless, I believe the call for his ouster is premature. Once he slides closer into his zone, his production should go up and his role on the team will be more clear (to him as well as to us fans). At that point we can re-evaluate and make a decision about replacing him with some sort of SF upgrade.
In the meantime, we can only hope that the Travis we saw last night is not the one we’ll be seeing down the road. No question the dude was off his game last night. (And no question we cannot afford a lot of off games from Travis now that Martell is down.)
So to sum up: get it together Travis or you are going to get your wish and find a home on a team where you can bomb away for 30 + points per game… Only problem will be that your new team will be a perennial loser, a collection of malcontents and head cases where all the players whine all day and the coach throws stuff around in the locker room (you know, like maybe a boxful of those little bags of airline peanuts, or a can of shaving cream, or maybe even a whole shelf full of hair products).
I must admit, watching the Dow tank 500 points on Monday felt something like fun. All those dazed and confused investment bankers walking out of the Lehman Brothers offices with plants in their hands, scared about their future, not knowing how they're going to make rent on their $2,700 studio apartments--it was pretty freakin' sweet. These are the people who are happy to live in the Matrix and go along with the plan.
by bilingual octopus on Oct 9, 2008 8:28 AM PDT reply actions
woops. I meant to write "zone."
I must admit, watching the Dow tank 500 points on Monday felt something like fun. All those dazed and confused investment bankers walking out of the Lehman Brothers offices with plants in their hands, scared about their future, not knowing how they're going to make rent on their $2,700 studio apartments--it was pretty freakin' sweet. These are the people who are happy to live in the Matrix and go along with the plan.
by bilingual octopus on Oct 9, 2008 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
also…getting rid of trout to get a better sf would mean that we would demote webster as well. might have an effect on his development. if we can get a really lopsided trade in our favor for trout…take it. if not i’d rather have him on the team to push webster even further. they are both so close to each other it seems like in nates eyes, that they would compete against each other in such a high level.
even tho travis hasnt been shooting well, his shot selection is no different than last year, it just isnt falling right now. no one has really mentioned that travis has improved on an area that many said he needed to work on last year. he had 3 blocks yesterday…and 4 rebs at that and like 7 rebs the night before. so far it seems like he has improved in that area.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
good point about the blocks and the rebounds, Philthy
People are raggging on Travis for his offensive deficiencies without taking note of his defensive efforts. Funny, usually people rag on both.
I must admit, watching the Dow tank 500 points on Monday felt something like fun. All those dazed and confused investment bankers walking out of the Lehman Brothers offices with plants in their hands, scared about their future, not knowing how they're going to make rent on their $2,700 studio apartments--it was pretty freakin' sweet. These are the people who are happy to live in the Matrix and go along with the plan.
by bilingual octopus on Oct 9, 2008 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
BB IQ
The single biggest problem with Travis is that he has a low basketball IQ. Sadly, I don’t think that will change. With the evolution of the team over the last two years, we have become a MUCH smarter team, to which TO doesn’t seem to fit. His lack of BBIQ leads to the lack of the extra pass, etc., as he is one-dimensional (Dribble, Dribble, Shoot). I think this is Travis’ lot in the NBA and it won’t change… I would make a trade if we can package him with RLEC for a solid, smart 3/4.
did trout play bball all his life?
i coulda sworn i remember that he didnt play basketball all his life (or maybe that was webster), and started like in HS. If thats true, than thats acceptible for him to have a low bball iq. BBALL iq is a must for a pg (which is why jack drove me crazy), and although Trout didn’t have the best iq last year, it worked out bc it was basically him on iso plays all last year. This year his problem seems a bit more magnified, not only because he is missing, but the 2nd unit has so many offensive threats that he will need to play within the offense.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, spot on
It is his BBIQ (and lack of fundamentals that go with it)…..If you’ve played the game, it sticks out like a sore thumb….It is obvious that Rudy and Batum have a good BBIQ…this will always play to their favor along with their skills. Trading aside….you have to reach a conclusion about him. (and it’s not based on one poor game or good ones by rookies). It is a matter of simple observations and knowledge of the game.
No one in here has the “golden touch” in their opinions and evaluations (myself included for sure)…If I am wrong about him….then I’m happy anyway, and will gladly admit I was wrong
I dig travis, I dig webster, I'm not too stoked about either right now.
One’s hurt, the others well. still on cloud nine from last season it would seem.
I will say it like I said it in the game day thread, someone just needs to smack outlaw, either it be a defender, or roy, or nate, someone needs to hit him with something.
He play’s better upset. or threatened at least. that’s all I really think it is, he’s not playing with his “skrew you I’m t-law attitude” right now he’s on auto pilot. just going through the motions.
No one told him that the opposing team was going to be playing like it mattered. becuase it did for alot of the guy’s on the court last night. dan was diving for balls, the defenders in the paint were flailing around gauntlets trying as hard as they could to not be scored on. kind of like luke did when he was the only one facing that 3 on one. when he put that hand up, it went from side to side preventing a good shot being taken. they (the scrubs) were playing like they were competeing for a roster spot.
someone forgot to tell travis.
it is One game. I say it reinforced alot of what I agree’d with lasts season.
Outlaw is amazing when he’s on, AND playing with roy (becuase roy wouldn’t have given travis the ball until travis was ready for the ball)
Outlaw should not be playing at the 3. EVER.
And we missed the whole bag of roy, and webster…
and on webster, THAT IS WHY.
if you were/are a anti web-slinger last night is a good example of what webster brings…that never get’s noticed. (kinda like brandon just not as well)
(k now you may tear this comment to shreds.)
"You just WATCHED history No need to study it! You LIVED it."
Mortimer
someone just needs to smack outlaw
When do the Blazers play Indiana, maybe Jeff Foster can smack Travis again?
That seemed to wake him up last year…
(agree re: Trout needs to play “off” of Ray to be effective, I think last night’s game just reinforced why BR is “the” team leader and most irreplacable player on the roster )
One thing though~
I sure hope the players don’t read this. Cause it is pretty unforgiving. You wouldn’t want to talk this way about someone you worked with or lived with, even if it was true! Just because it would be unproductive.
Real Fans Watched Both Games
and noticed Outlaw’s pass to Pryzbilla in the lane. It sure looked like growth to me. Plus he is rebounding and blocking shots more than ever. As much as I love our Euromotion Movement, the Spaniards were responsible for 12 turnovers, which is worse then 11 missed FG’s.
He was trying to find his offense last night, just like Aldridge in the first game when he missed his first 5 shots. And Outlaw was being agressive and trying to get to the hoop which was also a positive, and this lead to him getting 8 FT attempts, and he made 6 of them. Plus he should have had two more because he was fouled by Azuibukke(?) on that fast break dunk attempt towards the end of the game.
Not if you're wrong
opinions are like hairstyles, everyone has one, but that doesn’t make them right
by Fund A Mental on Oct 9, 2008 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I think his skills lend themsolves to coming off the bench
and sparking some offense. That’s a good thing. But it’s not the same thing as being a starter and having to play in a system which gets everyone involved in the flow of an offense.
12 turnovers
yes 12 turnovers is a lot but (7 steals + 17 assists (add in a ton more if people were making their jumpshots or if oden didnt get fouled after being fed the ball)) > 12 turnovers.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
yes
It is very clear that if you watch the games, Rudy and Sergio were a compliment to the team, regardless of turnovers…Stats are mostly overrated. They are often taken out of context and obscure when done so….Sergio did not have a great game, but when he was in the game, things began to happen. So Rudy, Sergio and Batum did a lot of good things for the team …..you could not say the same about Outlaw.
Nothing wrong with the people defending his play , but it pretty much goes on blind faith….I would hope the team is not planning on Travis bailouts at the end of games this year…because I thought we may have gotten beyond that point this year……(two of his blocks were when he had completely lost his man and was a secondary reaction to both, being lost and beat on defense) A simple little dish-off to the open man would have got the Warriors an easy 2…..No bashing, because at least he did something…. But it is another example of how stats can be misconstrued….
In all honesty, team defense as a whole was missing and quite unorganized….But most of the play was from either backups or rookies, so you would expect some instability….
by 67 on Oct 9, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
it wasnt a game nate wanted to win obviously
3 of our 3 pt threats gone…thus condensing the court on offense. then when oden or pryz wasnt in there was just no post presence at all. aside from a few blunders, i thought the perimeter d was ok. our guards slowed the offensive guards just enough and made them move laterally toward the hoop so that there would be some help up in the paint, but often there was no weakside help. its ok tho…we mostly had an inexperienced group in there.
remember these games shouldnt be about stats, but testing various lineups and seeing growth.
by Philthyanimal on Oct 9, 2008 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah he's a crunch time guy
But if the guy he is suposed to be guarding wasent scoring every play it wouldnt be so crunchy.
I have always liked Travis the guy.
I have never really jived with Travis the player. The other team knows what he’s going to do just about every time. If we can package him to get an on-the-cusp point guard, I say do it.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
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