John Hollinger's scouting report on Martell Webster and Travis Outlaw.

by AK1984 on Oct 8, 2008 5:13 PM PDT

Here's the one for Webster:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2795&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fplayerId%3d2795

Here's the one for Outlaw:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2015&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fplayers%2fhollinger%3fplayerId%3d2015

Hollinger, who analyzes players in an objective manner, has tempered expectations for both Webster and Outlaw.

Regarding Webster, there's justifiable criticism of his lack of slashing to the basket, obscenely high turnover rate, and mediocre percentages -- especially from beyond the arc and at the charity stripe -- for someone who's lauded for his shooting form. Webster, however, does get kudos for his above average one-on-one perimeter defense, although his so-so lateral quickness seemingly makes him inferior at clogging the passing lanes and causing turnovers. On the whole, Webster came across as a young, unpolished Michael Finley.

As it concerns Travis Outlaw, he gets knocked for his reliance on mid-range shots from 15 to 18 feet away from the basket -- which are the least efficient shot attempts in basketball -- as well as his avoidance of frequently driving to the hoop; those two factors led to his substandard true shooting percentage. Outlaw garnered flack for his low assist rate, too, which makes him appear to be a me-first, high-volume shot chucker -- as is indicated by his high usage rate -- on the second unit. Basically, Outlaw came across as a poor man's Marvin Williams.

All things considered, small forward is a position that may soon need an upgrade.

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The Finley comparison is a good one for MarWeb.

That’s the perfect example of what KIND of player he is, aside from “how good”.

"Mister Oden is a very, very big human being." - Jerryd Bayless

by QualityPie on Oct 8, 2008 5:48 PM PDT 0 recs

Stylistically, Martell Webster is indeed a young Michael Finely.

by AK1984 on Oct 8, 2008 11:51 PM PDT up 0 recs

Amazing ?!?!

Less than twenty-four hours after the first pre-season game, a glorious victory in which Martell played very well and showed he can get to the hoop and is showing improved athleticism, you are back grinding away about needing to trade away our young talent. You selectively quote Hollinger to make Martell look worse than Hollinger suggests. Furthermore, Hollinger himself has a very pessimistic view of the Blazers projecting them to only win 42 games. Hollingers analytical approach seems to put great stock in past performance and does not seemed geared to projecting the improvement of a team loaded with as much young talent as the PTB.

Sorry, if my frustration is showing. You seem to be a consistent downer. You dog Martell. You dog Bayless, hard. You seem to feel comfortable making definitive pronouncements about young players that are rapidly developing or that we haven’t even seen play. Frankly I don’t understand your attitude. Let our guys play. See how they develop, then figure out what if any changes we need to make.

by upper left corner on Oct 8, 2008 6:45 PM PDT 0 recs

I don't mind the frustration.

Also, you’re right to point out my negativity. I’ll concede that I observe things with a glass-half-empty approach.

At the same time, though, I’m more than willing to adjust my claims in light of circumstantial changes. If either Martell Webster or Travis Outlaw makes the leap this season — with Webster’s potential of that being more likely than Outlaw’s chances due to age and playing style — then I’ll give them credit for their advances. Yet, until they reach that threshold, my views will be cautious to say the least.

by AK1984 on Oct 8, 2008 11:50 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hollinger disses Roy in there

“if he can take advantage of the attention the big fella draws by knocking down some more open threes he should come out ahead on the bargain and perhaps this time make the All-Star team on merit.”

Coming from a guy who admittedly doesn’t get to see many West Coast games this seems silly. I could go on and on but it’s Hollinger and he’s a robot and who cares. I don’t know what the rules are when posting from pay services like Insider but Hollinger seems petty trying to bury this little dig in the back of the article so what the heck. Here’s the link for what it’s worth:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=3027

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 8, 2008 7:15 PM PDT 0 recs

John Hollinger is totally too hard on Brandon Roy.

In my rating system, Roy’s ranked in a three-way tie for the fourth best shooting guard in the NBA.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Manu Ginobili
4/5/6. Brandon Roy
4/5/6. Joe Johnson
4/5/6. Andre Iguodala

Aside from that, however, I agree with Hollinger that Manu Ginobili definitely deserved to be on the 2008 Western Conference All-Star Team in lieu of Roy. Yet, in my opinion, Roy would’ve nevertheless gotten the 12th and final spot on the roster over David West—although admittedly that’s somewhat due to the Husky homer in me.

by AK1984 on Oct 8, 2008 11:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

If you're only looking at stats, yes

if you look at his influence in the game, I think the coaches are MUCH better judges of that than Hollinger. They’re the ones that play against Roy, Ginobli, and Davis.

It’s like the media’s response to Greg Oden and the guy who has to GUARD Greg and HIS response about Greg Oden.

“Stop flopping defenders”
“You stop freaking flopping with your floppy belly and get out here and see if YOU can stop him!”

The coaches know what they’re playing against. Even if Roy lost, I couldn’t and wouldn’t argue the call regardless of what I felt. The coaches are in the trenches.

We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.

by ratbastird on Oct 9, 2008 9:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

roy had the best game of anyone on the west last year, didn’t he? Dude belongs.

by 50backflips on Oct 9, 2008 8:49 AM PDT up 0 recs

and

that’s another way to argue the point.

He definitely belonged. The west is so deep that I’m sure there were others who belonged as well.

We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.

by ratbastird on Oct 9, 2008 9:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

National pundits & newbie's

are always down on 3M. He’d be a senior
in college this year. Just take a chill pill and let
him show you how he fits in January. He’ll be
rested and ready to help us get into the playoffs.

COINCAST SUCKS !! GO BLAZERS !!

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Oct 8, 2008 10:50 PM PDT 0 recs

I'd much rather have ...

Martell Webster on the Washington Huskies right now than that overhyped failure Quincy Pondexter.

by AK1984 on Oct 8, 2008 11:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Comparisons Are The Bomb!

Travis Outlaw=Joe Smith (former #1 overall pick) at similar ages. YAY!!

But that turns out to be Smith’s worst statistical season of his first 8 years. AWW!

But Hollinger says he’s better than Martell. YAY!

But Hollinger says he’s bottom-five in passing. AW!

by FlyingOutlaw on Oct 9, 2008 1:34 AM PDT 0 recs

Specifically for a Travis Outlaw fan, ...

I’d argue that Al Harrington’s two-year run in Atlanta during the 2004-2005 & 2005-2006 seasons is Travis Outlaw’s best-case scenario. You, therefore, should pray — and I’m saying that in spite of being an atheist — that Outlaw is dealt to a low-end franchise like the Hawks.

Unfortunately, though, the Hawks are already set at small forward with Marvin Williams. Oh well …

by AK1984 on Oct 9, 2008 2:11 AM PDT up 0 recs

How is Roy like Ray Allen?

Hollinger seems to think that they are similar. Weird man! They are as similar as books and apples. One is a flat out shooter and the other an all around baller. How can he say Roy didn’t deserve his All-Star berth? Punk a$$ female dog! Roy is like Ginobilli not Ray-Ray.

by VinnyB on Oct 9, 2008 4:53 AM PDT 0 recs

He is just a little mad that his boy D-Will didn't make it

Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)

by Norsktroll on Oct 9, 2008 9:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

Deron Williams ...

should blame his absence from the 2008 NBA All-Star Game on several of the voters, for their infatuation with Allen Iverson is what cost him a spot on the Western Conference squad.

I, by the way, agree that John Hollinger is rather overzealous regarding his adoration toward Williams, whose lackluster defense severely hinders his overall production. Luckily for the Utah Jazz, though, Jerry Sloan has a defensive-minded backup floor general at his disposal in ball hawk Brevin Knight — who was acquired in a trade this past off-season for another strong defender at the point, Jason Hart, which was an all-around even swap — so that makes up for Williams’ one major drawback.

by AK1984 on Oct 9, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up 0 recs

It's the second year in a row too, IIRC.

Statistically, I guess they’re similar.

Ray Allen (at 23 years old): 17.9 pts, 4.4 reb, 3.7 ass, 1.1 stl, 2.6 TO, 45.0% FG, 35.6 3P, 90.3 FT%
Brandon Roy (also at 23): 18.3 pts, 4.5 reb, 5.5 ass, 1.0 stl, 1.8 TO, 45.4% FG, 34.0 3P, 75.3 FT%

These are just the basic Per-36 minute rates. Roy had a PER of 19.4 while Allen had a PER of 18.9. Even though they aren’t that much alike, the stats don’t show much of a difference. There’s no need to be upset.

by poster on Oct 9, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up 0 recs