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Darius has Words for Nate

Ben_tiny by Ben. on

Via the Boston Globe's Frank Dell'Apa, Darius Miles completed his fourth consecutive day of training camp and earned some approving words from his coach, Doc Rivers.

"Before practice, [Miles] was thinking about shutting it down for a day, but he was encouraged to practice and I thought he had maybe his best practice so far," said coach Doc Rivers.

The story behind the story has to be Darius's words about his previous training camp experiences.

"I just have to learn the plays and what I'm capable of doing, pick my spots to help the team out," Miles said. "I don't think I hit the wall in the first practice. When you first come to a team, you don't know what to expect, even though I'm a veteran player. This is the first team I've been on where, after you run plays, you get back to the other end, you sprint to the other end. Once I got used to the routine, I felt better and better.

"I'm used to being on teams where they have four or five straight two-a-days and they run you into the ground and you are crying for a day off. My first couple years in Portland, Nate [ McMillan] didn't give us a day off until December. I'm thanking Doc for this."

Given Nate's track record of over-achieving given his roster's talent level, it's a criticism that, overall, rings relatively hollow. 

But with injury concerns (minor and major) up and down the roster, you've got to wonder whether Nate will handle things differently.  To my knowledge the team ran 2-a-days last Tuesday through Thursday, with a shootaround on Friday morning, the Fan Fest Friday evening, practice yesterday, practice today, practice tomorrow, and a game on Tuesday.

For all the talk of a deep, loaded roster, take away even one of our projected starters (including Blake... especially Blake...) and, all of a sudden, that early season minefield looks infinitely more difficult.

---------------------

UPDATE via Lance (who else?): As always Nate is one step ahead.  There was no practice today. So, the scoreboard on this one reads...

  • Nate 1
  • Darius 0
  • Me -1 for even slightly doubting Nate and then driving over to the PF for no reason.

---------------------

-- Ben (benjamin.golliver@gmail.com) 

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Miles just needs to shut up

and stop whining about his days in Portland. Quit living in the past, and concentrate on the present. He sounds like a bitter child complaining how daddy never spent time with him because he was always working. Just like with that situation, Nate worked everyone so hard so they can be prepared for what’s ahead (the NBA regular season in this particular case).

by lefty6283 on Oct 5, 2008 11:09 AM PDT   0 recs

Yes, It is all about

conditioning …a main ingredient in a successful team…How much it runs them into the ground depends on what kind of shape they are in to begin with…this is something the players need to understand before they get to camp…they are still on the payroll through the summer. They get to choose what they want to do with their time and can take days or weeks off and still dedicate themselves to basketball….Most of the smart players (or non-lazy) realize that being in the best possible condition is the least they can do for themselves and team….. and is something they have control over….
     Nate is saying : You better be in shape, because unless you have an injury, training camp will be tough from the start (It’s his job to make sure the players understand the importance of conditioning and that the team can not wait for the season to start for you to be in shape.) I’m sure this is why he does the conditioning test….A quick way for him to evaluate a players condition entering camp. Most are proving to him that they are ready ( he has indicated he may not need to do this next year)
    “No more” Miles has always been an under-achiever and never goes the extra mile, if you will (unless he’s trying to prove his worth…but this is always temporary)

by 67 on Oct 5, 2008 12:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i know

Miles is just lazy, and he is jealous that other players stay in shape and show up his laziness. Its not that hard to stay in shape if you already conditioned through the year. Think about it. You don’t have to work to get money to pay for your survival. You have the whole day to your self and to stay in shape you just have to spend a couple of hours a day working on your shape and game, and then you can do all you want. But Miles was lazy, plus he smoked weed and drank before practice thats why he didn’t want to stay in shape during the summer. He just wanted to party with his girls he met in the bar. When time came to work he would feel like the coach ran down to the ground during the practice. Thats it. Its obvious.

by RipCity on Oct 5, 2008 3:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

true

maybe he was so athletic that maybe he never had to work out to stay in shape…but after being idle for so long bc of his injury, it probably caught up to him eventually. its kinda like that incredibly skinny guy that you know that can eat junk food all the time and not gain a single ounce, yet you can feel your pants getting tighter with every bite you take.

by Philthyanimal on Oct 5, 2008 10:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm glad

that there was more reports of players devoting themselves in the off season this year and no one being reported as out of shape to camp. looks like everyone is committed. i’m sure some players will exceed our expectations, and others will have down years, but i dont think anyone can question their work ethic or attitude.

by Philthyanimal on Oct 5, 2008 10:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

His childhood in East Saint Louis

20 years ago might his core. Six year olds Miles in a bleak, bleak place. And, yes, the whining hurts him more than it need.

"One must assume responsibility for being in a weird world: we are in a weird world ... Touch the world sparingly." Carlos Castenada (Journey to Ixtlan)

by Caveowl on Oct 5, 2008 3:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

When You Live in an sometimes psychotic society, as did, as does, Darius

Fit right in.

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/book230t.htm

"One must assume responsibility for being in a weird world: we are in a weird world ... Touch the world sparingly." Carlos Castenada (Journey to Ixtlan)

by Caveowl on Oct 5, 2008 4:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Damn

That looks like some sort of photo from postwar Europe. That’s thoroughly depressing.

by DonkeyShins on Oct 6, 2008 1:41 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

I sympathize actually. Having days off is so awesome.

by 50backflips on Oct 5, 2008 11:25 AM PDT   0 recs

There's no practice today

and shootaround’s are exactly what they sound like. The guys get together, maybe walk through a couple of plays, get up a few shots, then go home. It’s no more exertion than a brisk walk.

by Lance Uppercut on Oct 5, 2008 11:42 AM PDT   0 recs

i just found that out the hard way….

confronted by an empty parking lot…

thanks casey…..

BRANDON ROY GET WELL SOON

by Ben. on Oct 5, 2008 12:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL....

poor ben.

"the Knicks are an ongoing experiment in sporting altruism, with the motto "We suck, so you don't have to." This is the designing principle. Stop overcomplicating things."
-jawaan oldham

by faith on Oct 5, 2008 12:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

it’s only a 10 min drive… and it was entirely my bad….

i will laugh at myself along with you :)

BRANDON ROY GET WELL SOON

by Ben. on Oct 5, 2008 12:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

show's dedication though. a trait of yours we are thankful for.

Darius Darius Darius. so is it too soon to start factoring in his salary to our cap space?

he just might pull this one out.

"the Knicks are an ongoing experiment in sporting altruism, with the motto "We suck, so you don't have to." This is the designing principle. Stop overcomplicating things."
-jawaan oldham

by faith on Oct 5, 2008 12:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

as much as it hurts

to lose that cap space, it was still a winning situation for us. the organization did all it could to exclude him last year, and now he is just officially off the team finally. as nice as it would have been to have that capspace to sign a premier player, maybe it is best that we don’t disrupt our chemistry with signing a big time PG but stay patient with our team and fill it with role players. A lock down perimeter defender would be great to sign, but hopefully webster or even bayless can turn into one for us.

by Philthyanimal on Oct 5, 2008 10:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Props to you

For still rocking the Jarrett Jack avatar. My hat is off to you, sir.

by DonkeyShins on Oct 6, 2008 1:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The man who lived through it, and begun it,

a homage to him my good sir. ;-)

Thank you Jarrett!

"the Knicks are an ongoing experiment in sporting altruism, with the motto "We suck, so you don't have to." This is the designing principle. Stop overcomplicating things."
-jawaan oldham

by faith on Oct 6, 2008 6:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Making millions a year to do something you supposedly love.

How terrible you would have to work very hard for that. Man, driving that Benz home from working out and playing basketball must be so difficult. Sleeping in that huge plush bed must be a dreadful experience. Seeing all those other cities, being able to buy whatever you want…Oh, wait I have to work for it??? Screw that!

It’s a shame, he can’t just shut up and be happy with what he is so LUCKY to have. Idiot. “Crying for a day off…” what a douche.

"People? You man Sheeple."

by Mike-Fu on Oct 5, 2008 11:44 AM PDT   0 recs

darius wouldn't be caught dead in a benz....

I believe his favorite is his monte carlo with the 44 inch rims. (I don’t really know, just seen the spot for a darius rip)

"the Knicks are an ongoing experiment in sporting altruism, with the motto "We suck, so you don't have to." This is the designing principle. Stop overcomplicating things."
-jawaan oldham

by faith on Oct 5, 2008 11:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The defiition of Hoopty!

Darius’ Ride

and the detail work:

He's Coming! Oden Slayer of Giants

by Idog1976 on Oct 5, 2008 12:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is that really Benjamin Franklin getting stoned with a rim-humpin' ho?

Stay classy, Darius.

Yeesh.

"Mister Oden is a very, very big human being." - Jerryd Bayless

by QualityPie on Oct 5, 2008 12:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd give my first born son

For that car.

Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision

by tominhawaii on Oct 5, 2008 5:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

he's not disabled is he, becuase that'd be really bad.

forgive me tom, but I’ve been reading your writing for a while, and I have vivid images after reading some of your comments.

"the Knicks are an ongoing experiment in sporting altruism, with the motto "We suck, so you don't have to." This is the designing principle. Stop overcomplicating things."
-jawaan oldham

by faith on Oct 5, 2008 5:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't have a son yet

But I’d gladly knock up a chick and give the kid away for that car. Just don’t tell my wife.

Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision

by tominhawaii on Oct 5, 2008 5:59 PM PDT to parent up   2 recs

When's the Palin baby due?

I bet it comes out looking like you.

"Mister Oden is a very, very big human being." - Jerryd Bayless

by QualityPie on Oct 5, 2008 7:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I bet Darius isnt sporting his wheels in Boston

unless they dont give a crap about the country either anymore

I heard local sports radio jobber say the White Crayola is useless. I wholeheartedly disagree.

by bow4meow on Oct 5, 2008 8:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If the Blazers' pre-season practice regimen was so arduous when he was here . . .

 . . . why wasn’t his conditioning better, at least before the injury knocked him out of the training camp agenda?

"Mister Oden is a very, very big human being." - Jerryd Bayless

by QualityPie on Oct 5, 2008 11:47 AM PDT   0 recs

Hmmm?

I’m not sure Darius’ comments are all that insindiary. He could be taking a vailed shot at Nate or could just be a simple expression of his past experience. Course he’s none of our favorite person right now so maybe I’ll lean toward the former.

I find it sad that I have to root for a guy NOT to make it back into the league because if he does it hurts my team. I think such rules that create such situations should be changed.

And Ainge is doing this not so much as a return shot against kp for P. Slapping but more because he sees an oppurtunity to weaken a team that will be a likely finals opponent. This won’t break us but it will prevent a big signing and or take money away from all our future re-signings.

Oh and on an unrelated topic, does anyone have David Gallooly’s number?

by Blazersaurus on Oct 5, 2008 12:20 PM PDT   0 recs

hey

It does not really matter if he goes back on our salary cuz there is no big free agent this summer. If Blazers are going to get someone with a big name it will be through a trade. So blazers will be giving away as much salary as getting in return. But they can get a decent free agent with the cap they will have even if Miles contract goes back on the teams salary. And when we need to resign LMA and B-Roy, Miles will come off our salary.

by RipCity on Oct 5, 2008 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

the Spanish contributors on this board are hellah cool

by G_dubs on Oct 5, 2008 5:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If we have cap room

then we don’t have to give away as much salary in return. Think Camby for a second round pick.

How would you like to give up a second round pick for a starter quality player? Cap room lets you do that sometimes.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Oct 7, 2008 7:16 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This indeed rings hollow.

He needs to let his game speak. I cant wait to see how all that rest helps his game.

Darius, have class, act like an adult. Try, at least try to comport yourself in public with a smidgen of dignity and respect . Your failure on the Portland Trail Blazers remains on your shoulders. Its your job to take responsibility for your own failings and use the lessons you have learned (hopefully) from this ordeal to become a better basketball player for your current organization.

Sophia

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson

by BlazerFan1 on Oct 5, 2008 12:21 PM PDT   1 recs

If anything

the December 30th game (against the Celts) becomes more and more interesting…

by Griff on Oct 5, 2008 1:01 PM PDT   0 recs

No doubt

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson

by BlazerFan1 on Oct 5, 2008 1:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Should we...

start a hoopty caravan to the game that night??

by Griff on Oct 5, 2008 1:09 PM PDT   0 recs

I have a suburu... LOL

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson

by BlazerFan1 on Oct 5, 2008 1:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If Darius has

A lowrider bounce kit in his ride it has more hops than he has.

by southern oregon on Oct 5, 2008 1:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice pic

But I was talking about the Cheech and Chong kind of thing

by southern oregon on Oct 5, 2008 9:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Does this count?

And you don't eat crackers in the bed of your future, otherwise you might get....all scratchy.

by shenanigans on Oct 5, 2008 8:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yea...

my Honda won’t quite make the cut, either….maybe if I airbrush some historical/political figures on the hood waving guns and smoking weed, no one will notice.

by Griff on Oct 5, 2008 1:30 PM PDT   0 recs

Did anyone else see Real Training Camp with the Celtics?

Darius looked way out of shape and was complaining about his legs hurting to the trainers while he was riding the stationary bike. Ainge was saying that Darius looked good and would play 10 games for someone this year, but after seeing him practice with my own eyes, I still have major doubts.

by SalemORguy on Oct 5, 2008 1:33 PM PDT   0 recs

Ainge was saying that Darius looked good and would play 10 games for someone this year

sounds like the kiss of death.

BRANDON ROY GET WELL SOON

by Ben. on Oct 5, 2008 1:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

When Cassell said

I want to play one more year and then be a coach next year was the kiss of death

by southern oregon on Oct 5, 2008 1:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmmmm. Why would Ainge use the number of games Darius would play?

Why specify 10? Why wouldn’t he just say that Darius would make someone’s team? Maybe a slip on his part? I would like to know the context of this comment.

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Oct 5, 2008 2:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He was responding to a question....

Rick Kamla was talking about him possibly going back on the Blazers books and asked specifically about Miles playing at least 10 games for some team this coming year

by SalemORguy on Oct 5, 2008 4:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Oct 5, 2008 6:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The legs of all guys are hurting after training camp workouts

Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett were seen icing their knees. I wouldn’t interpret too much into it.

Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)

by Norsktroll on Oct 5, 2008 3:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Of course...

This was not after the workout though, this was fairly early in the workout and he seemed to be pointing at his hip while he was on the bike.

by SalemORguy on Oct 5, 2008 4:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is it available for online viewing?

If so, a link would be nice.

Mmm . . . link . . . snauuuussssagggggge . . . [drool]

"Mister Oden is a very, very big human being." - Jerryd Bayless

by QualityPie on Oct 5, 2008 7:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmmmm.

“Given Nate’s track record of over-achieving given his roster’s talent level…”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

by Timmay! on Oct 5, 2008 2:01 PM PDT   0 recs

The evidence behind Ben's statement

is last season with Portland and Nate’s final season in Seattle.

In both instances McMillan fielded teams who performed about the level of talent on the roster.

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Oct 6, 2008 8:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Poor Darius

Actually being asked to work his ass off as a professional. Oh, how will he ever live?

ROTUNDITYDOTNET

by damir on Oct 5, 2008 2:05 PM PDT   0 recs

The best coaches demand that their players be in the best condition

Nate has grown with the team and is doing a great job of using his intuition. He is not running players through things just to run them. His players came to camp in shape for the most part and therefor he is not pushing them too hard. He is adjusting to what the situation merits. The players who are behind the curve are being asked to do more on their own time to catch up.

I'm a little confused by your tactics

by oderiferous emanations 74 on Oct 5, 2008 2:38 PM PDT   0 recs

LMAO

we had daily doubles for a whole week as early as my high school JV team

while i don’t feel that Darius is/was as bad as he was made out to be, it amazes me that somebody could reach the NBA level without the work ethic of the average high school sophomore

just further illustrates how gifted he was and what a waste it was

by DominicanAvenger on Oct 5, 2008 3:12 PM PDT   0 recs

talkin' 'bout Practice!

Practice!?! We talkin’ ’bout PRACTICE?!?!?

I love A.I.
Darius, not so much.

by Saba on Oct 5, 2008 3:24 PM PDT   0 recs

How is this upsetting at all?

Really, I don’t get why Darius’ comments would make any of you guys mad. He wasn’t even bashing Nate, just stating what he was used to. And he said “teams” as in not just Portland.

by In Walks Rudy on Oct 5, 2008 3:28 PM PDT   0 recs

Silence is golden

Actions speak louder than words…I let my play determine my worth, etc, etc…..It sure does look like Miles doesn’t think he got a fair shake in Portland, and he wants people to think he has a good reason for being lazy…….
    People remember his energy light as being off most of the time ( he actually had more energy when he was pouting on the bench)…..Or he may have turned it on once in a while to let people know he was still alive…..He is still being paid a lot of money to talk (whine) and he did get a lot of days off this summer . The Blazers (and Fans) are paying for Boston to give him a second chance…..He did nothing to show the Blazers that he was interested playing for them (its called work ethic… for which he had little)….injury or not

   It is very understandable that an average fan is angry….. or disgusted is probably a better word. I was always hoping he would change because was still young and talented….he had a likable personality as well….But some people don’t mature until it is too late….or maybe he’s mature now, but his better playing days are certainly behind him…..

by 67 on Oct 5, 2008 4:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

"Disapponted" is a word that might describe how a lot of fans feel re: Darius
average fan is angry….. or disgusted

the Spanish contributors on this board are hellah cool

by G_dubs on Oct 5, 2008 5:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ack. Read, "Disappointed"

the Spanish contributors on this board are hellah cool

by G_dubs on Oct 5, 2008 5:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess i'm not the average fan...

How can you say “He did nothing to show the Blazers that he was interested playing for them”

Didn’t he publicly say that he still wanted to play?

Not that I really want to get into a big Miles discussion, but…. People seem to remember him being much, much worse than he was. He wanted to play and probably still can, and I for one hope he does.

by In Walks Rudy on Oct 5, 2008 7:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you meant to reply to 67, but

taking Mile’s actions in aggregate, he was far from pristine relative to his situation with the Blazers. However, he is not Beelzebub either…

Miles is a different cat. I don’t think he was / is a good fit for this team, i.e., team chemistry, especially after the Regime Change.

It won’t break my heart if Miles makes a comeback that is genuine, and not some game rival GM’s are playing to screw with KP’s cap playthingy. Miles is playing by the rules that are currently in the CBA. so are the Blazers. Whatevers. :-)

the Spanish contributors on this board are hellah cool

by G_dubs on Oct 5, 2008 7:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure he wanted to play

But he just didn’t want to play hard or in the team concept….I guess my wording was not entirely correct, but Mile’s action both on and off the court contributed to his being “a player without a team” (In other words his injury was not the only part of his accumulating downside )
   I did say action speaks louder than words , so saying he wanted to play is not actually proving he had a real interest. (let alone commitment and desire)…… Even without the injury, he was destined to be an unhappy bench player. Exclude the injury and tell me he was giving it all for the team……
   We remember him as a person who was never fully committed, lazy, immature, and mood stricken….Not really a bad person and a lot of upside, at the time we acquired him, and when he was re-signed…. but his downside became more prevalent in his progression as a player.

   And I do apologize for using the “average fan” ( I did not mean to speak for them and I don’t know what the average fan thinks or where the average is) It was a bad choice of words

by 67 on Oct 6, 2008 12:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Uh, Darius?

You might want to hold off on the negative comments about Nate. It’s just reminding everyone that you have a reputation for not getting along with coaches. If your agent hasn’t mentioned this to you, he should have.

And also (I realize this is kind of picky), but was Nate even your coach your “first couple years in Portland”?

by Corvid on Oct 5, 2008 5:09 PM PDT   0 recs

He's failed

all three cities he has visited…….good luck Boston.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Oct 5, 2008 5:41 PM PDT   0 recs

Darius is dead to me

A curse upon those who speak his name. I pray his name does not defile this sacred blog again.

in other words. Who cares? He’s a waste of bandwidth. Do you exert this much energy to consider the fate of your trash by the curb?

Blazers Edge has an alarmist vision

by tominhawaii on Oct 5, 2008 5:47 PM PDT   0 recs

I personally have no opinion on darius

cant we all just move on and forget darius… I have… sheesh… thanks to Ben for the timely post

I heard local sports radio jobber say the White Crayola is useless. I wholeheartedly disagree.

by bow4meow on Oct 5, 2008 8:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah bow4meow I hear ya, but...

that sexy $9 mil cap thingy!!! We wants our Precious $9 mil cap thingy!!!

I’ll say this again. I’m fairly certain “they” did not intend a situation like this when the CBA was drafted and ratified, i.e., that the retiring team loses virtually all control of the situation regarding their cap.

Meh. Low level dray-ma.

the Spanish contributors on this board are hellah cool

by G_dubs on Oct 5, 2008 8:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

$9 million isnt that big a deal

spread out over the next 3 years it means your hot dog now comes to $5 and a warm Hamms in a plastic cup another $8.50

thats not worth getting rid of the guy once and for all?

I heard local sports radio jobber say the White Crayola is useless. I wholeheartedly disagree.

by bow4meow on Oct 5, 2008 8:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually $9 mil * (potentially) 2 years the way I understand it

I am glad he’s gone. He is not a good fit for this team. And yes I get your point. The situation is almost toally out of the Blazers control now anyway. Time for all of us that wants Our Precious cap thingy to say The Serenity Prayer or something…

the Spanish contributors on this board are hellah cool

by G_dubs on Oct 5, 2008 8:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yea but they're covering those losses over three years

in vendor sales. Im just joking except for the fact they’ve outpriced Joe 6 pack from attending. When I hear what it costs to actually attend a game with your family, I have to ask how it can be worth it.

Speaking of Comcast, they are replaying the Ducks-USC game. I missed it yesterday. Did anybody catch the score?

I heard local sports radio jobber say the White Crayola is useless. I wholeheartedly disagree.

by bow4meow on Oct 5, 2008 8:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ducks get pounded

the Spanish contributors on this board are hellah cool

by G_dubs on