Bulls-Blazers Trade

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 10:38 AM PDT Comment 95 comments

Hello all,

Long time Blogabull poster here, and a fan of the city of Portland. I'm sorry to hear about Oden, but encouraged that the injury isn't serious - the kid is a future star, no doubt about it. On to the potential trade:

The Bulls roster is a mess. We have too many point guards, too many power forwards, and no established shooting guards or centers. You guys have two terrific shooting guards and no established point guard. You've also got an enormous talent in Jerryd Bayless who's riding the pine for lack of playing time. If you saw that kid at Arizona, you know that needs to be rectified. You've also got a superb post scorer in LMA (a pox upon you, Pritchard) who doesn't rebound that much (well maybe not a pox, exactly). The Oden plan to complement him with a strong rebounder/defender is a good one. Unfortunately, it may not work this year due to injuries - and the lack of conditioning those injuries cause.

How about Kirk Hinrich and Drew Gooden for Rudy Fernandez, Raef and Steve Blake?

Here's my reasoning: a three guard rotation of Hinrich, Brandon Roy and Jerryd Bayless would be one of the best in the league. You'd have an excellent ballhandler/defender in Kirk, an all-around star in Roy, and tons of scoring punch off the bench in Bayless. Jerryd is a combo guard - so let him get tick playing behind both Hinrich and Roy. Sergio could get spot minutes - which is more than he'll be getting as it is.

In terms of down low, I think Gooden would complement LMA pretty well. He's a great rebounder, strong, and can knock down jumpshots when teams try to double LaMarcus. Then, when Oden comes back, he can slide into a backup role. Best of all: next season, when Greg is ready to dominate, you don't have to pay Gooden. His contract is up after this year.

It helps the Bulls in two ways. First, Kirk's gotta go - while he's a very good point, he's not a good two guard, and the Bulls' point guard for the next decade or so is Derrick Rose. Secondly, we're probably losing Ben Gordon next year. We need a two who can complement Derrick - and that means somebody you can run and shoot from long range. Rudy can do both.

Anyhow, good luck to you all. It's easy to like the Blazers - exciting youth and a paucity of jerks. It should be an exciting season (for both teams).

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we won’t be trading one of the best values in the league (rudy) for one of the worst contracts in the league (kirk).

Deal or no deal. No deal.

honor terry porter

by Ben. on Oct 31, 2008 10:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree that the trade is awful

but I wouldn’t call Hinrich one of the worst contracts in the league, considering his deal was frontloaded so the cap hit is decreasing every year.

Z-Bo, Troy Murphy, Tinsley, Kenyon Martin, Nene, Erick Dampier, Luke Walton, Vince Carter, Bobby Simmons(!!!), Gilbert Arenas: now THOSE are some bad contracts.

I’ll take Hinrich with his contract over any of those guys with theirs. At least Kirk is a solid second-tier combo guard who’s not going to hurt you. He’s just not worth Rudy, which we all agree on.

by Royster on Oct 31, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

there are roughly 450 players on contract in the league.

you named roughly 10 with worse contracts. name another 50 and i’ll buy what you’re selling…

honor terry porter

by Ben. on Oct 31, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh goody goody, time to name some bad contracts (overpaid players in no particular order)

Emeka Okafor, Sam Dalembert, Nene, Raef (sorry, but it’s true), Boris Diaw, Cardinal, Scalabrine, Mark Blount, Jamaal Tinsley, Troy Murphy, Rasho Nesterovic, Larry Hughes, Kenyon Martin, Shaq (in his current state), Mike Bibby, Matt Carroll, Nazr Mohammed, Eric Snow, Wally World, Ben Wallace, Ericka Dampier, DeSagana Diop, Devean George, Jason Kidd (now), Kwame Brown, Steve Francis (incl. what we still pay him), Antoine Walker, Marko Jaric, Darko Milicic, Marcus Banks, Shawn Marion (not by that much, but overpaid), Damon Jones, Bobby Simmons, Stromile Swift, The NY Knicks (Eddy Curry, Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, Stephon Marbury, Z-Bo, ~~Mike D’Antoni~~), Earl Watson, Rashard Lewis, Tony Battie, Bobby Jackson, Kenny Thomas, Andrea Bargnani, Jermaine O’Neal, Andrei Kirilenko (see Marion), Etan Thomas, and Gilbert Arenas considering they could have had him for about $30 mil. less.

Yeah, probably Kirk is overpaid, but at least he brings something for his money which you can’t say for all of these guys.

by Norsktroll on Oct 31, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Thank you NorskTroll

my original point was just that Kirk really isn’t all that overpaid for what he gives you, so I tried to find the most egregious examples who were on long term deals with contracts higher than Kirk’s (for the most part).

Not a whole ton of guys in the league are a near-automatic 15 and 6 while shooting in the high 30s from downtown, playing solid D, and being nothing but positive from a chemistry standpoint. That list narrows significantly when you eliminate everyone making under $10 million (which Kirk will be for every year after this one on his deal). Of course he’s overpaid, but so are 70% of guys in the league. On any team that isn’t made almost exclusively of guys on their rookie contracts like ours, you’ll find guys on worse contracts for their value than Kirk.

by Royster on Oct 31, 2008 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

i stepped in it there, didn’t i. well done.

there are some guys on that list i’d rather have than kirk but i shouldn’t have been so quick to underestimate nba gms’ ability to overpay.

thanks to your hard work, i will amend my original statement to read…

“we won’t be trading one of the best values in the league (rudy) for a notoriously overpaid player (kirk).”

honor terry porter

by Ben. on Oct 31, 2008 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

kirk

kirk is only overpaid bc his skill set demands the higher pay….all good defensive minded pgs go at a higher rate than the norm. its hard to find one on the cheap other than those on rookie contracts.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 1, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kirk

plays pretty pathetic defense for a “defensive minded” point guard.

by as11osu on Nov 1, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kirk isn't a pathetic defender

I mean, the dude was 2nd team All-NBA defense just the other year.

He might have athletic problems to deal with a Tony Parker or Chris Paul like Steve Blake does, but Hinrich is a better defender and knows exactly what to do on the defensive end.

He definitely ain’t pathetic defensively, and while I’m not sure if he’s worth the price of his contract (certainly not if he’s a backup to Rose for the Bulls) or whether he’s the best we can do with our cap space, I think it’s more likely his recent season was a fluke for the worse and with minutes he’ll get back to his previous level of play.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Nov 2, 2008 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahaha... You asked for it...

1.) Kevin Garnett at $24.7 million
2.) Stephon Marbury at $21.9 million
3.) Allen Iverson at $21.9 million (expiring contract)
4.) Jason Kidd at $21.4 million
5.) Jermain O’Neal at $21.4 million
6.) Tracy McGrady at $21.1 million
7.) Shaquille O’Neal at $20.0 million
8.) Steve Francis at $19.8 million (on the Blazers payroll)
9.) Shawn Marion at $17.1 million
10.) Ray Allen at $17.4 million
11.) Rashard Lewis at $17.23 million
12.) Michael Redd at $15.78 million
13.) Mike Bibby at $15.2 million
14.) Vince Carter at $15.2 million
15.) Andrei Kirilenko at $15.08 million
16.) Yao Ming at $15.07 million
17.) Zach Randolph at $14.666 million
18.) Lamar Odom at $14.559 million
19.) Ben Wallace at $14.5 million
20.) Gilbert Arenas at $14.5 million
21.) Raef LaFrentz at $12.722 million (expiring contract)
22.) Jason Richardson at $12.22 million (ends at $14.44 million)
23.) Emeka Okafor at $9.5 million (ends at $14.54 million)
24.) Larry Hughes at $12.827 million (ends at $13.655 million)
25.) Wally Sczerbiak at $13 million (expiring contract)
26.) Kenyon Martin at $14.181 million (ends at $16.545 million)
27.) Nene at $9.68 million (ends at $11.6 million)
28.) Troy Murphy at $10.126 million (ends at $11.98 million)
29.) Mike Dunleavy at $9 million (ends at $11.968 million)
30.) Baron Davis at $11.25 million (ends at $14.85 million)
31.) Cuttino Mobley at $9.1 million (ends at $9.8 million)
32.) Antoine Walker at $9.3 million (ends at $10.687 million)
33.) Andrew Bogut at $6.29 million (ends at $14.2 million)
34.) Eddy Curry at $9.7 million (ends at $11.2 million)
35.) Elton Brand at $13.757 million (ends at $18.16 mil)
36.) Samuel Dalembert at $10.52 million (ends at $12.2 million)
37.) Brad Miller at $11.375 million (ends at $12.25 million)

Considering all of these, Hinrich’s contract isn’t THAT bad, and the worst of it is over…

I would say there are reasons beyond financial that Kirk Hinrich is not right for our team…

"Now, you take a bobcat or a Jayhawk. You know they'll run if you give 'em the chance. But when one don't run, why, you shoot him and shoot him quick. Raef's my dog, Pa. I've gotta do what's right..." Old Yeller (1957)

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Oct 31, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

IMHO I don't think that Yao Ming is overpaid

Just my opinion

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LMA - Let the breakout year begin!
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by LaMarvelous on Oct 31, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's probably debatable...

If you’re making $15 million, you should have a playoff win under your belt but that’s just my opinion.

A “max” player, in my eyes, is one that puts you in contention for a championship. Unfortunately, GMs often pay “good” players, max money.

Again, I’m not disagreeing that Yao maybe worth $15 mil, but I wouldn’t pay him that much. Ironically, I ran into the same issue in NBA2K9 when Aldridge and Roy were up for Free Agency. Aldridge was demanding Max money, but it’s tough to commit $13-$17 million to a tall jump shooter…

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Oct 31, 2008 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

kevin garnett is underpaid…

honor terry porter

by Ben. on Oct 31, 2008 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

?

He makes half of the total salary of the “Team that shall not be named.”

I would personally flip over every car at Coliseum Ford if the Blazers ever agreed to pay Kevin Garnett $24.7 million…

by RoyGoesTheDynamite on Oct 31, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

they won a title. ask paul allen how much he’d pay for a ring. more than 24.7. ask the celtics how much money they made off that title. that 24.7 was a great investment.

honor terry porter

by Ben. on Oct 31, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How long has KG played for the Sonics?

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum

NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"

by rockingharder on Oct 31, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Simple to the point. Thank you. Agreed.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Oct 31, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even thinking about trading RUDY is blasphemous!!

It would be wise to delete this post before the clergy sees it.

the wisdom of peasants is demonstrated in their ability to pretend that they are fools.

by sagebru5h on Oct 31, 2008 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oy

I had no idea the Rudy-love was so intense around here, or I wouldn’t have suggested it. I mean…you’ve got Brandon Roy. I assumed that meant he’ll be getting the majority of the tick.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he will

but Roy can slide over to PG or SF at times. People here really think Rudy has starter potential, or at least closer potential— and his first game gave us no reason to reconsider that opinion.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Oct 31, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ben's right

You’re probably not going to find too many takers on this blog when a trade involves Rudy. Since he has lots of potential, they’d want something accordingly. Kirk won’t cut it.

It’s very likely most people would still turn down that trade if you added Ben Gordon. Just for perspective. Rudy is very highly valued in Portland.

by Timmay! on Oct 31, 2008 10:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rudy > Kirk already, so why would we make this trade?

by PtownJake on Oct 31, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This math is indisputable...

Very well done….

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Oct 31, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's like gravity...it should be written into the laws of physics.

by PtownJake on Oct 31, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, sorry, thanks for coming and posting your ideas are well reasoned,

but good luck getting ANYONE on this blog to give up Rudy.

"For the past two seasons it's been like, 'They're young, they're going to need some time,"' Roy said. "It doesn't feel like that this season."

by joelor on Oct 31, 2008 10:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Cool beans

I wouldn’t have suggested it if I didn’t think he was exciting. To my way of thinking it would only make sense for the Blazers if they felt “well, he’s good, but he’s no Brandon Roy….”

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Part of the thing is

Roy is a great playmaker, and so is Rudy, and two playmakers who can shoot and do different things can easily play together. Rudy is good off the ball, allowing Roy to be the main playmaker, and Rudy can also make plays and score on his own, giving Roy much needed help.

Their skills don’t contradict each other, and actually complement each other well. If they were both pure-SGs, I don’t think it would work… but since both are PG/SGs, it seems to work pretty well.

I had high hopes for Rudy and thus far, he has surpassed them. He seems ready to go from day one.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 31, 2008 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your analysis of the two rosters is sound...

… but the Blazers would be better served to let Raef’s contract expire and grab a free agent… plus I echo the other posters thoughts on Rudy.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Oct 31, 2008 10:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Hinrich would do well in Portland

Assuming he can bounce back from last year, he’s a classic Nate point—good outside shooter, solid perimeter defender. Unfortunately, Rudy isn’t going anywhere. Also, I don’t think Raef’s contract is worth Drew Gooden and his bad taste in hair styles.

by abdelnaby on Oct 31, 2008 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 1, 2008 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

RRRUUUDDDYYY!!!

Rudy FTW!

I love Frye, but would be thinking more Channing and Sergio and RLEF. Which you would not approve.

There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.

by LaoTzu on Oct 31, 2008 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

sergio is untouchable right now

or near to it. you’re going to get squat for him right now but if you keep him you have the Spanish Air Mada….keep Sergio.

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Oct 31, 2008 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Im not really sure about this.

Maybe you were joking, but Sergio I think is far from untouchable. His rapport with Rudy has been acknowledgeable at times, but… Lao Tzu’s trade as above would be a hard one to pass up.

Gooden’s hair makes me want to puke, but other than that I would be totally for it

by everett on Oct 31, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's hard to trade Frye right now with Oden out.

It’s also hard to trade Outlaw unless you are getting a SF in return with Webster injured.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Oct 31, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Gooden comes close to filling the same role. He's not as mobile, but probably better at playing the post

by everett on Oct 31, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rudy forever!

"Rudy’s flashy passes had the place whispering to each other like we were in junior high" ~BlazermaniacAndy

by courtsideerrandboy on Oct 31, 2008 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for coming by again!

Rudy is now so revered by the fans AND KP and Blazers brass that he is put up there with the Big 3, making a Big 4. Rudy played really well in pre-season, and won’t likely be a normal rookie.

Roy and Rudy are already the 4th quarter guards, with them each sharing PG and SG duties, playmaking for each other and others. Rudy hit the ground running here with his first pre-season game and hasn’t had a poor game yet.

Before Rudy and Bayless came around, I think Hinrich woulda’ been a good upgrade over Blake. I think he’ll bounce back after his bad season last year and could be a good PG for us. Unfortunately, with his contract situation, if we replace Raef’s deal with his we don’t have the cap space to play with and maybe Hinrich isn’t enough to warrant losing the potential cap space.

It’s an interesting idea and I think the two teams could easily make a deal that works for both, but yeah… Rudy ain’t go nowhere for a loooong time. He’s a keeper.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 31, 2008 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

That makes sense,

and we’ll see how Hinrich plays and how your rotation plays out. If he performs as he can, there will be plenty of takers. If he plays like last year, not so much.

The response to my post was a big surprise. I had no idea that Rudymania had reached such a fervor, or that Blazer’s fans were even considering a future without Oden. For those who are, I would direct you to the Chicago Museum of Bad Centers. On your way to the Ben Wallace Wing you will pass through the Hall of Luc Longely and also Jochim Noah Center, which is actually not a Center at all. I would advice these fans to take copious notes.

And of course, you’re welcome on BaB any time. Good luck tonight.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

heh

I’m not sure if it’s the Olympics effect, but Rudymania has been in full swing ever since he landed at the Portland Airport (there’s video floating around of him being surprised by a big crowd of fans). Anyway, Blazer fans aren’t actually contemplating trading Oden, just that one guy. Sorry I let him troll me off topic, MPG—I thought your original post was well thought-out and even-handed, and you deserve better than that.

Good luck with the Celts tonight! And good health to your own recent #1 pick7mdash;Derrick Rose is for real, and has really surprised me by already being NBA-ready.

by abdelnaby on Oct 31, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you are interested, read back a few months...

It has been my experience that B-edg-ers have pretty much been totally against any trade proposal made. This is not to suggest that I always, or even sometimes, disagree, but only that everyone has been defensive of our prospects of greatness; probably rightly so.

I think if come midseason we have any less than 22 wins or so people are once again going to be shouting for trades, and/or blood.

by everett on Oct 31, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't worry about the Oden worriers

They’re just hit hard because we all looked forward to seeing Oden so much, and he played pretty well in pre-season so hopes were high.

Once he comes back in a week or two, gets a stretch of games in, people won’t worry so much. Until he gets another game-related normal injury, that is.

Pritchard has talked up Rudy since he stole him from PHX, and the Olympics caused Rudymania to hit a peak I didn’t think the actual Rudy could match in the real NBA. I thought he’d be good after some time to acclimate, but not right away… well, so far, I was wrong. His passing and shooting have been terrific, with his weakest asset being too gambly on defense.

We’ll see how 82 games against big NBA bodies treats him, but so far so good.

I personally think Oden will be just fine and really good— I think some forget how lucky we already are with our talent, and that a guy like Oden makes a huge difference just by being out on the floor. Some people can’t always see the big picture, but I can’t worry too much since I know the front office ain’t so jumpy.

Good luck as well, and I’m glad Rose looks so good. I heard some people saying it was a ‘mixed’ debut for him, but aside from the shooting I thought he looked terrific. 11/9 is an awesome debut for any PG, especially one coming right out of his freshman season.

The future without Oden will come one day, but it’ll be 15 years from now.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 31, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, another reason people love Rudy--

—he gave up millions of Euros to come play for less than a million dollars a year for 4 years in a small market, because of the push KP and Paul Allen did to convince him to come over.

Reportedly, he had deals of 5-7 million Euros for 4-5 years available to him (and even if exaggerated; he’s giving up millions) so he left a lot on the table to pursue his NBA dream… that sorta stuff always gives fans gravy pants (I don’t know what that means).

He’ll make it up with Nike money and his next contract, but it’s a risk for any young player who can be a for-sure star in his home country.

Plus, in his first two games as a Blazer, he did a nutmeg pass between the enemy’s legs in each one. I’m petitioning the NBA to make this rule change, but if you pass between the defense’s legs and it results in a score it should equal 3 assists… sorta like a 3 point bucket counts as an extra point.

What do you think the eventual outcome for Ben Gordon is? What is the ending we’re all veering towards there?

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 31, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gravy Pants?!?

::shudders::

I think BG is on his way out, and it’s a shame. He’s undervalued by both the league and the Bulls (and their fans). Look at the teams that have interest in him – the Hornets and Jazz. Both teams feature a point guard who can penetrate at will and has the court vision to kick out the ball to open shooters. Common sense says that those shooters should be elite at what they do. It’s why Mo Peterson can look decent beside Chris Paul, and why Kyle Korver…well, gets paid.

Imagine Chris Paul with Peja in one corner and BG in the other. Ouch.

I do have a slim hope that he’ll stay on as a 6th man. Drew Gooden’s contract is seven million off the books this year. If BG plays well next to Derrick (or just plays, period) then there’s a shot he (Gordon) could net some of that money. But it’s very unlikely. Things have gotten personal, and there’s a lot of bad blood from the Skiles era.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Go to Youtube

And look for Rudy’s airport entrance to Portland, Rudymania was out of control the moment he stepped off the plane.

by usmcr3049 on Oct 31, 2008 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another reason for the Rudymania

We have spies in Spain who’ve been feeding us videos and interviews and whatnot for the last year. So many of us weren’t surprised by his Olympic performance.

Good luck this year.

by Corvid on Oct 31, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

It was nice for you to stop by. Here, have some candy.

We’ll keep Rudy though, thanks!

ROTUNDITYDOTNET

by damir on Oct 31, 2008 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rudy Fernandez

is a Blazer for life.
Book it.

Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.

http://www.myspace.com/y5k

by Y5k on Oct 31, 2008 10:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the only players I would consider NOT untouchable right now are

Ike
Randolph
RLEC (That’s Raef)
Sergio (sorry)
Batum (so sorry)
and, so so sorry, Channing

Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.

http://www.myspace.com/y5k

by Y5k on Oct 31, 2008 11:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd add Martell and Travis

sadly…cuz i love those guys

and bayless—he’s not untouchable either.

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Oct 31, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I wimped out on those three ...

I thought about it, but couldn’t pull the trigger. I love Trout and Marty. Bayless may be The Next Big Thing.

Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.

http://www.myspace.com/y5k

by Y5k on Oct 31, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

here's my list of untouchables

Brandon Roy.

That’s it. Everyone else could be had for the right price— for Aldridge, Oden and Rudy, that price would be high— but they aren’t untouchable.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Oct 31, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

not gonna find any takers here...

sorry.

I bet if you proposes LeBron for Rudy you’d find many people saying no… which is flat laughable.

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Oct 31, 2008 11:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

....mmmmmm..... tough one.

That new tattoo I’m getting on my neck (old English lettering)? “Rudy>MJ23”

(a joke)

Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.

http://www.myspace.com/y5k

by Y5k on Oct 31, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha

I was in the middle of typing my post below when you put this up.

I’d rather be laughable than have LeBron.

by MavetheGreat on Oct 31, 2008 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

c'mon...

REALLY?!?

We’re talking about LeBron James, right?

"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car"

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Oct 31, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, what a horrible idea...

Lebron is not even close to being the best player in the NBA, who almost single-handedly carried his team to the Finals a few years back…
Oh right…

Well, Its not like the blazers have a weakness at the three, I mean that is obviously…
Oh, right…

by everett on Oct 31, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

WHAT!!!!

I WOULDN"T TRADE RUDY FOR KING JAMES!!!

Actually, that’s true.

by MavetheGreat on Oct 31, 2008 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Haha

Really?

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Oct 31, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

For stopping by MPG…..and stirring up the pot! :)

by blazersrock on Oct 31, 2008 11:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

MPG: Don't you think the Bulls will want to keep Hinrich if they don't know at all if Gordon will bolt next season?

I wouldn’t do THAT trade for Rudy and there is no real need for Gooden, but there is no denying the Blazers would consider Hinrich an upgrade at PG especially on defense. Yet I doubt the Bulls would move him in this situation unless they get a great player back and not just an expiring contract as the main piece of a deal.

by Norsktroll on Oct 31, 2008 11:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

very good question

The issue is that Kirk is a much, much better point guard than shooting guard. In fact he’s a below averageshooting guard, to the extent that his numbers get depressed by it. He’s a tremendous defender against opposing point guards; two guards are too big for him. He’s great at handling the ball and penetrating; in terms of spot up shooting, he’s just adequate.

The Bulls’ mission right now is to build around Derrick Rose: he’s getting 35 minutes at point, period. So nobody wants to pay Kirk 8-10 million a year (his contract was front loaded) to play 13 minutes of very good point guard and 15 minutes of below average shooting guard. Long term, he just doesn’t fit us, and by trading for someone who’s cap-friendly (Raef), we could afford BG. There’s an element of chance in this, true; BG could walk out of spite.

You gotta roll the dice sometime, though.

The truth is, this trade isn’t going to happen, but I still think Hinrich’s a much better fit as a Blazer than he is as a Bull. I also think he’d be your best point guard, and that you have too many good shooting guards to find them all minutes.

Okay, I gotta go. That was more blogging than I’ve done in the past year.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Silly, silly trade proposal

Rudy is going to be the Blazers’ Ginobli. He’s not as physical, but just as special. I believe he’s already joined Oden, LMA, and Roy on the Blazers’ “untouchable” list—that is, untouchable unless LeBron is being offered.

Clearly you haven’t watched Rudy much. You’ll learn, though.

"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla

by hurryup09 on Oct 31, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I've watched Rudy

in the Olympics, and against the Lakers, which is why I was interested in him. In this thread he’s already been compared with Ginobli, a multiple NBA-champion, and valued higher than Lebron James, the league’s most physically gifted player. The “Rudy>>MJ23” tattoo was a joke…probably.

There’s a lot of emotional attachment here. That’s great. But my proposal wasn’t silly, let alone “silly, silly.” All of these players – Oden, Rose, Roy, Deng, Rudy, BG – have won jack on the NBA level. The notion that any of them is “untouchable” is a little silly.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

MPG

BlazersEdge is full of some of the best, most loyal fans in all of NBA-dom.

It’s also home to some of the biggest, most unabashed homers. There are a lot of people here who would prefer to have a worse team if it was THEIR team (people who would hesitate to make a LeBron for Rudy trade for instance). There is nothing wrong with this— as I said BlazersEdgers are GREAT fans… it just means trade offers on BE usually get shot down no matter how reasonable or well thought out they are. This particular one did deserve to be debunked IMO… but it was far from silly.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Oct 31, 2008 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think it's crazy either

I mean, Roy and Rudy are both SGs, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a non-Blazer hardcore fan to see that and think “well, Roy is more talented and they ain’t moving him, there might not be enough room for Rudy if he’s good but not as good”. It’s not an idiotic trade idea from an outsider if ya ask me.

Overtime most fans will see that Roy and Rudy complement each other, but I can’t expect people to know that now after a few non-televised pre-season games and Roy’s worst game as a pro.

We shouldn’t try to make MPG look silly for suggesting it, he’s a smart guy whose premise is true… it just don’t work with how much the team likes Rudy, and how his skillset fits with Roy.

See Jake the Snake Ninety Nine, we agree all the time.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 31, 2008 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Truth is,

I’m much the same in the sense that I want it to be my team – not a bunch of hired guns slapped together. I laud that kind of fan: the one who relates to more than a jersey. Speaking from experience, part of my attachment to Derrick Rose is that he’s from Chicago, where I’m from. He represents not just the Bulls but the city, in the same way that Blazers fans now have a team that’s in tune with their city. The fact that Blazers fans dealt with a team (the Jailblazers) that was so out-of-sync with their civic identity probably makes that attachment all the more intense now.

That said, if for some ungodly reason the Hornets offer Chris Paul for Derrick Rose, I hope Paxson take it. I’m sad as hell, but I hope he takes it.

Now I don’t blame the fan who’s upset when he does. I just get annoyed when he calls me silly. :)

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad you said that.

I think that I forget how nice it is just to have a team that I can be proud of. Channing, Greg, Brandon, Lamarcus, Rudy, Travis, Martell, Joel… It’s hard to think of a more upstanding group of guys.

Even with Oden hurt and the Blazers killed on Tuesday, it’s still better than winning with Sheed, Damon, and Kemp.

by Cablinasian on Oct 31, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

arrg

…is “untouchable” is what’s silly.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Worst-Trade-Ever

Its not even close to even. Kirk is an average player in this league at best, has a bad contract and isn’t a true point guard. In which way do we need him again? Gooden is no better than our 4 post players currently, and we wouldn’t even have the opportunity to extend him. So what exactly are we getting out of this deal? You get one of the best expiring contracts in the league, one of the leagues most promising younger players in Rudy and a decent true point guard in Blake. This is laugh out loud funny.

The only players I’d want on the Bulls roster are Rose and Deng. If you can find a trade where we give up 2 or 3 pieces for one of those guys, that’d be something we’re interested in. If not, we’d pretty much pass on every Bull on your guys’ roster (no joke).

by as11osu on Oct 31, 2008 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Kirk is above average.

I’m not saying I want him, but he is easily one of the top 20 point guards in the league.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Oct 31, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately, people around here frequently underrate Kirk Hinrich.

Also, some of those same folks vastly overrate Jerryd Bayless in a homeristic fashion.

Rudy Fernandez, however, deserves the praise he receives by hardcore Blazer fan[atic]s.

by AK1984 on Oct 31, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you aren't kidding on Bayless

after summer league there was a poll: who would you rather have, Bayless or Rose… and it was basically a 50/50 split. Ridiculous.

Bayless has a chance to be a nice combo guard (not sure if he can ever be our starting PG but not ruling it out either) but he’s not the future hall-of-fame player people thought he was around these parts this summer.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Oct 31, 2008 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

kirk is vastly underrated…i would have wanted him last year after the devin harris deal didn’t go thru…but this year i’m not convinced i want kirk even tho he would help our team. i believe that kp thinks that either sergio or bayless are the pg of our future, and kirks good enough to get a lot of minutes that might hinder their development.

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 1, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rudy is a great complementary offensive player

Rudy is a first-class shooter who moves very well without the ball, has good basketball IQ, excellent court vision/passing ability, can run the fast break, and can get to the rim when he needs to. There are many players in the NBA who can score a lot of points if you let them dominate the ball and run plays for them, but versatile players who are as effective as Rudy playing off the ball are pretty rare and valuable. If the Blazers trade Rudy, it will be difficult to find another complementary offensive player who is as good as he is, and they certainly won’t be able to find someone who has Rudy’s skills and only makes $1 million per year for the next 4 years. The Blazers aren’t going to give up Rudy unless they get a LOT of value back for him.

by trk on Oct 31, 2008 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I would actually like to see Kirk here.

But not for Rudy.

My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.

by OCBlazerFan1 on Oct 31, 2008 12:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

This is absurd. I think , as a fan , you are clearly searching and searching for a player that meets your needs on the court and on the balance sheet. Rudy fits the bill because, well he’s really good and he cost us about 3 mil cash to land and gets paid 1 mill per year.
I think its a nice
idea, and I often times think of ways to get Chris Paul for nothin’, but its not reality my friend.

Sophia

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson

by BlazerFan1 on Oct 31, 2008 1:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Smile appreciated;

but Fernandez is not Chris Paul, you still have 3 (ie, too many) shooting guards, and Steve Blake is still your starting point guard. Which is probably why the object of your basketball desire is Chris Paul.

Would people have been less offended if I’d said Bayless instead of Fernandez? They’re all great, IMO…

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bayless can go.

Rudy should stay.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Oct 31, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

true dat

by everett on Oct 31, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting

this could help both teams later in the season if a) Bayless shows he can produce b) Hinrich returns to form.

It’s been fun, everybody. Good luck with the season.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 31, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, most Blazer fans would probably give Bayless up quite easily in a good deal.

It’s not just the play on the court. Rudy already has a connection to the fans that is special.

by Cablinasian on Oct 31, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich doesn't belong on the Blazers roster

He’s Steve Blake without the humility, the 3 point shot or the contract. His slight edge in talent is a waste here… we’ve got plenty of talent already not making the most of itself. Like I said, the only Bulls worth discussing for Portland are Luol Deng or Derrick Rose. If you can think of deals involving those players we could talk. Hinrich isn’t worth Raef’s contract alone, let alone all the rest.

by as11osu on Oct 31, 2008 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

wow. worst analysis of Hinrich ever. Kirk is a great shooter, plenty humble and a much better defender than Blake. I agree with you on the contract but the rest of your analysis is poor.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Oct 31, 2008 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well the stats back up my claims...

and your claims are just idle chatter. He gave up 19.2 points of production to his opponent last year… guess how many players on the entire Portland roster gave up that much? 1. He shot 35% from 3… which is bad, especially in comparison with Blake. We have 3 other guys that also shoot better than that from distance. Some people need to watch more games before giving players credit to the level of their undue hype. Hinrich would be as valuable to this team as Steve Blake, only he’d cost over twice as much for twice as long.

by as11osu on Nov 1, 2008 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you used the worst year of Hinrich's career

and the best year of Blake’s in your analysis. That’s cherry picking the data.

Boomshakalaka

by jksnake99 on Nov 1, 2008 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It'd be cherry picking if I used

anything besides the most recent year to analyze these players. Hinrich was among the worst defensive guards in the league last year. Saying he’s “top notch” or “much better than Blake” is a flat out lie. And I don’t think Blake is all that great. If we’re going to commit resources to upgrading our point guard, the player we acquire should be considerably better for our team than the guys we currently have, Hinrich doesn’t fit that description, and his cost is ridiculous in accordance to what he brings a team.

by as11osu on Nov 1, 2008 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any savvy statistical analyst would say to use the past three seasons ...

of someone’s performance; however, you seem to wholly disregard that.

Hmm …

by AK1984 on Nov 1, 2008 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And any savvy business man

would say that you don’t drop down double or triple your investment to get more of the same. Especially because that player has shown a steep decline in productivity over the last year. That player also hasn’t shown the skills you need him to have to make an impact on winning games. If he can’t penetrate, doesn’t play defense as well as he used to (it was legitimately horrible last year), and can’t hit the 3, and shoots 41% from the field (really really bad) what is that player supposed to provide? I’m certainly not going to be giving up my teams assets in order to play said player 38 million dollars over the next 4 years. It simply doesn’t make sense.

by as11osu on Nov 1, 2008 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a fair assessment.

I wonder how Kirk Hinrich will do this season; that’ll decide this debate.

by AK1984 on Nov 1, 2008 2:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are correct, sir!

by AK1984 on Oct 31, 2008 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

can we trade...

matt hasselbeck and lofa tatupu from seattle to the new orleans saints in return for chris paul?

Honor Terry Porter

by Philthyanimal on Nov 1, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Outlaw, Webster,Oden & Raef

For Rose…( well , we need a point guard (and you have too many)and we need some roster spots open to cover injuries) Webster and Outlaw can play 2 and Oden will help your economy….(fast food chains) ……..You get Raef’s contract for free (good will gesture for the free agency next year) ….yup …to get quality you need to give up quality is why we would be willing to part with Oden…he’s not injury prone….but you do need to wrap him up in a Debbie bag at night…..And were not lying about his age, he just looks like Bill Russell

by 67 on Oct 31, 2008 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

well thought out

OutlawWebsterOdenRaef= over $20 million in salary, Rose=about $5 million… so that would obviously work under the CBA trade rules.

Then you give up our best Center, our top two SFs, our cap space/trade bait (RLEC), and we get a PG in return. So now we have four PGs (Rose, 1/2 Roy-offense, 1/2 Bayless-defense, Blake, Sergio), and we’re worse off at SF and Center.

I hope you were joking.

by Bust a Bucket on Oct 31, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well sort of

there was absolutely no thought behind it, if that’s what you mean …it only took me 2 minutes of pounding keys to get it down(pretty good for me…I suck at typing)…so I could view it as, time well wasted…..

by 67 on Oct 31, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

k...

so the trade is. frye and blake for kirk. right?

I think kp is anti double digit salaries….ya know?..

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Oct 31, 2008 5:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

lol....oh yeah...and the rlec.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Oct 31, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kirk Hinrich ...

and Cedric Simmons — who, to the best of my knowledge, has an expiring contract — for Raef LaFrentz and Jerryd Bayless is a fair trade. Hinrich, unlike Bayless, would be an outstanding fit alongside Brandon Roy.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=198130303417454&teams=222244&te=&cash=

Hinrich plays top-notch defense, too, which is one of Bayless’ many weaknesses — although several folks around here wrongly claim that he’s good at it — thus, there’d be a huge upgrade on that end of the court.

by AK1984 on Oct 31, 2008 5:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich does not play top notch defense.

One of the many myths about Kirk Hinrich. I’m not even sure how they originated. People must still think he’s the player he was versus college competition. Kirk Hinrich was one of the worst defenders on the entire Bull’s roster last year. He gives up more points than any player on our entire roster last year that played 10% of the minutes. He also can’t hit the 3, which would be an essential skill of any PG we go after. Kirk is one of the most overrated players in the league not to mention the fact he has a ridiculous contract that doesn’t expire forever. He’s not worth Raef’s contract, he’s not worth Bayless alone, he’s not worth any combination of our top 10 players. People need to wake up to the real world in regards to this guy.

by as11osu on Oct 31, 2008 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

He defended Dwane wade pretty well when the Bulls beat the Heat in the 2007 playoffs. Pat Rilley seemed to think he was good.

“I think he’s one of the top defenders in the game, in the league. He reminds me of Jerry Sloan, he reminds me of Michael Cooper. And just like the Chicago Bulls whined about Dwyane, who was getting too many free throws, a great defender like Kirk Hinrich gets away with more. He’s into you, he’s relentless.”

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Nov 4, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not good.

Hinrich and Gooden are overrated. Plus Hinrich is on a bad contract. After DMiles, we should have learned lessons on bad contracts. Rudy has potential to be our Ginobili equivalent. Sure it is potential, but I think in his case attainable. Blake may not be flashy, but does his job, and isn’t on a bad contract. Not a good deal.

by CanadianBlazerfan on Oct 31, 2008 6:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

nice proposal.

I do like Hinrich, and would like to have him, but a rudy trade would require a little more in return. The guy is electric, cheap, has huge fan appeal ( ergo jersey sales, it’s crazy how many Rudy jerseys I see around Portland ), and still a lot of upside. In short he is a GM’s dream.

by oden is GOD OF WAR on Oct 31, 2008 11:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs