Trade Oden? A comparison with other centers

by Blodgett on Oct 30, 2008 2:31 AM PDT Comment 10 comments

I think some fans are really freaking out about Greg Odens’ foot injury. The real question to ask yourself is: If you think Greg Oden is made of glass and we never should have drafted him, which center would you like instead of him

To better understand the situation I have made a list of every true center in the league. I then tried to research how many times they have been injured in the past.

There are a few things I should make clear about this list. First, I only chose players who averaged at least fifteen minutes playing time last year, or will presumably average that many this year, since that is the minimum that Oden would play on any team in the league. Second, I put the age of the player right after each players name, since if we compare him to other centers we must take into account that he is only twenty. Third, I did my best to find out what injuries players have had and to specify those, if there are no specifics then that means I couldn’t find them. Fourth, I didn’t count any one game or two game injuries (the flu, bruised pinkie, etc), although if there are no specifics for a player then they may be included in the total. Fifth, there are some players which injury history was impossible for me to find, in that case I wrote unknown. Sixth, if I missed a year it is because they had no significant injuries that year.

Let’s begin!

True Centers

Dwight Howard – C (23) Magic

No injuries in 4 seasons

Yao Ming – C (28) Rockets

2007-08 – 27 games with stress fracture in left foot

2006-07 – 32 games with small fracture on his right anterior medial tibial plateau

2005-06 – 21 games with infection in his left big toe, 4 games with broken bone in left foot

Marcus Camby – C (34) Clippers

2006-07 - 12 games to injuries

2005-06 - 26 games to injuries

2004-05 - 16 games to injuries

2003-04 - 8 games to injuries

2002-03 - 38 to hip surgery, 12 to sprained ankle

2001-02 - 14 games to plantar fascitis, 38 games to hip injury

2000-01 - 12 games to hip contusion, sprained ankle, strained left groin

1999-00 - 17 games to sprain of anterior cruciate ligament, 3 games to tendinitis left knee

1997-98 - 6 games to tendinitis in knees, 5 to strained abdominal muscle

1996-97 - 14 games to lower back strain

Brad Miller – C (32) Kings

2007-08 – 10 games with cut hand

2006-07 – 16 games with torn plantar fascia

2004-05 – 26 games with injuries

2003-04 – 10 games with injuries

2002-03 – 9 games with injuries

2001-02 – 5 games with injuries

2000-01 – 25 games with injuries

1998-00 0 Unknown

Shaquille O'Neal – C (36) Suns

2005-06 - 18 games to sprained right ankle

2004-05 - 3 games to sprained left knee, 3 games to stomach virus

2003-04 - 14 games to strained right calf

2002-03 - 12 games to off-season foot surgery, 3 games to sore left knee

2001-02 - 5 games to sore big toe, 5 games to arthritic big toe

2000-01 - 6 games to sprained right foot arch

1997-98 - 21 games to abdominal strain

1996-97 - 28 games to hyperextended left knee

1995-96 - 22 games to fractured right thumb, 4 games to bruised left quads

Samuel Dalembert – C (27) 76ers

2005-06 – 13 games to right quad strain, 3 games to left ankle sprain

2004-05 – 3 games to left hip strain

2003-04 – unknown

2002-03 – 82 games with arthroscopic knee surgery

2001-02 – 16 games to left knee tendinitis, 12 games left knee bursitis

Zydrunas Ilgauskas – C (33) Cavaliers

2007-08 – 7 games to back strain

2006-07 – 3 games to left ankle sprain

2004-05 – 4 games to dislocated finger

2001-02 – 17 games to rehabbing foot

2000-01 – 58 games with foot surgery

1999-00 – 82 games with foot problems

1998-99 – 77 games with foot problems

1995-97 – missed two seasons (164 games) with foot injuries

Mehmet Okur – C (29) Jazz

2007-08 – 12 games with sore Achilles, lower back problems, sprained shoulder

2003-04 – 5 games with back spasms, 6 games with lower back strain

Andrew Bynum – C (21) L@kers

2007-08 – 47 games with knee problems and arthroscopic surgery

Chris Kaman – C (26) Clippers

2007-08 – 26 games with various injuries

2004-05 – 11 games with left ankle sprain

Andrew Bogut – C (24) Bucks

2006-07 – 16 games with left midfoot sprain

Tyson Chandler – C (26) Hornets

2006-07 – 7 games with sore left toe

2003-04 – 43 games with lower back pain

2002-03 – 6 games with esophagitis

2001-02 – 4 games hyperextended pinkie

Marc Gasol – C (23) Grizzlies

No injuries – Rookie

Kendrick Perkins – C (24) Celtics

2007-08 – 4 total games to injuries

2006-07 – 10 total games to injuries

2005-06 – 14 total games to injuries

2003-05 – Unknown

Erick Dampier – C (33) Mavericks

2007-08 – 10 games with injuries

2006-07 – 6 games with injuries

2004-05 – 21 games with stress fracture-right foot

2003-04 – 8 games with sprained left ankle

2001-02 – 9 games with injury

2000-01 – 38 games with left knee injury

1999-00 – 30 games with left knee injury

Andrea Bargnani – C (23) Raptors

2007-08 – 4 games to injury

2006-07 – 17 games to injury

Brendan Haywood – C (29) Wizards *

2008-09 – Would play 15+ minutes if he wasn’t out for 4-6 months with wrist injury

2005-06 – 3 games with back pain

2004-05 – 12 games with injuries

Eddy Curry – C (26) Knicks

2007-08 – 23 games to knee surgery

2005-06 – 10 games to injuries

2004-05 – 3 games to strained left hamstring, 13 games to irregular heartbeat

2003-04 – 7 games to left knee bone bruise

2001-03 – Unknown

Rasho Nestoveric – C (32) Pacers

2007-08 – 6 games with sprained ankle

2004-05 – 12 games with sprained ankle

2002-03 – 5 games with sprained ankle

Brook Lopez – C (20) Nets

Rookie – None

Ben Wallace – C (34) Cavaliers

2007-08 – 5 games with back spasms

Otherwise extremely hardy

Theo Ratliff – C (35) 76ers

So many injuries it’s hard to count! Problems with hips, ankles, and knees. Has missed more than 350 games due to injury.

Marreese Speights – C (21) 76ers

Rookie – None

Nazr Mohammed – C (31) Bobcats

2002-2003 – 47 games with foot fractures and eventual foot surgery

1999-2000 – 22 games with back spasms

Mark Blount – C (33) Heat

Only missed 15 games with injuries in his whole career

Desagana Diop – C (26) Mavericks

2004-05 – 5 games with sprained finger, 5 games with right ankle sprain

2003-04 – 16 games with torn meniscus

Josh Boone – C (24) Nets

2006-07 – Unknown

2007-08 – 12 games, knee and ankle problems

Fabricio Oberto – C (33) Spurs

Never missed a game with injury – 3 seasons

Zaza Pachulia – C (24) Hawks

2007-08 – 20 games with knee injuries

2006-07 – 9 games with various injuries

Tony Battie – C (32) Magic

2007-08 – 82 games with torn rotator cuff

2006-07 – 16 games with various injuries

2003-04 – 6 games with bruised left knee

2001-02 – 6 games with a lower right leg edema

2000-01 – 41 games with sprained ankle

Johan Petro – C (22) Thunder

No injuries in 2 years

Etan Thomas – C (30) Wizards

2007-08 – 82 games with heart surgery

2006-07 – 17 games with injuries

2005-06 – 6 games with injuries

2004-05 – 32 games with abdominal strain

2002-03 – 28 games with fractured orbital bone and a bruised left eye socket

2000-01 – 82 games with toe injury

And Finally

Greg Oden – C (20) Blazers

2008-09 – 2 to 4 weeks with midfoot sprain

2007-08 – 82 games with microfracture

And a broken arm in college that didn’t stop him from playing.

To Conclude

Looking through this list of centers we can see that there is a good reason to take promising centers early in the draft; there just aren’t very many good true centers.

If another GM offered us a trade, Oden for their center straight up, we would only take it in the case of one. I think KP would gladly accept Oden for Dwight Howard straight up. But beside him? Yao Ming is great but is 8 years older and has broken the same foot three times. Anyone over thirty is out of the question. The only one with as much promise is Andrew Bynum, and he had a serious surgery too.

Us Portland fans just need to relax and realize that we are lucky to have such a great center in Oden, and a great backup in Pryzbilla. Compared to what most of the league is starting we have two superior players!

What center would you trade Oden for, straight up? Why?

10 recs | Comment 10 comments

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Comments

Y'know, a lot of those guys you listed aren't true centers.

Anyhow, I wouldn’t touch the main part of this post with a ten-foot pole.

by AK1984 on Oct 30, 2008 2:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i would pass on all of them

i rather have someone with odens character and potential rather than a whiner like eddy curry

by Yawnie on Oct 30, 2008 2:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Mostly agreed.

Except Dwight Howard. He has a good attitude, by all accounts and is already a superstar. I would take him for Oden.

by erastus25 on Oct 30, 2008 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would take Dwight Howard for sure. He is a stud!

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Oct 30, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good Post

People are so worked up about Oden. relax. I remember Centers like Ewing, Olajuwon, and Robinson being injured on a fairly regular basis. The only center from the list I would even consider would be Dwight Howard. Looking thru the list makes you realize how lucky the Blazers are to have scored Oden!

by Enginerd on Oct 30, 2008 6:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Nice post. Puts things in perspective a little bit. B-ball is a contact sport. Injuries happen – especially to guys who are 7 feet tall and weigh 250-300 lbs.

Oden could’ve been knocked out for the year, and I STILL doubt KP would trade him for many of the guys on this list.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Oct 30, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade, no way

Lower expectations drastically? Yes.

Blazer Fan

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 30, 2008 7:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

That would be phenomenal

I can’t guarantee that he would surpass those drastically lowered expectations, but not expecting it would decrease the extreme volitility of this fan fan base.

by einman77 on Oct 30, 2008 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a thought I had

How serious have any of Oden’s injuries been?

-Wrist injury. Did not prevent him from playing most of the season.
-Damage to knee cartilage. Typically (i.e. five years ago) treated with rest and/or scope. Out six weeks in the off-season.
-Foot sprain: Will miss two to four weeks.

The most serious injury he’s had is microfacture surgery, which is something doctors decided to do to his body. It was a proactive, elective surgery. I’m not saying it wasn’t the right decision, but I don’t really see Oden’s ligaments joints, or bones busting apart.

by PoliSam on Oct 30, 2008 7:13 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs

We're so closed to the car wreck that we can't see there're no fatalities yet.

Good call. We’ll stop worrying so much when he’s played 50 games straight. It’ll happen this year.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Oct 30, 2008 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Oden's micro is okay

Then he is home free as far as I am concerned, injury wise.

His case is the first case I can ever recall of there being no pain afterwards. That’s a good sign. To me, it seemed his last step to recover from the micro was conditioning and re-remembering his muscle memory.

This sprain slows that down, but by no means does it truly damage his recovery.

The wrist is one thing, the micro is another, and a sprain is an everyday b-ball injury. I’m only concerned about the micro, and if he has gotten past that and is just onto normal b-ball nicks n’ scratches, we really don’t have much to worry about.

At the very least, I won’t worry about it until Oden truly has real injuries over and over. More than just micro. If this happened 30 games in, we wouldn’t worry so much, but we can’t control the timing. We can only hope he rests well, loses weight, and is able to finally play some consecutive games. If he is out there, he’ll do well.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 30, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

I’m not so worried. There is no correlation between his injuries, so I think he has a good chance of being healthy. If he got a brain tumor people would be calling him injury prone.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Oct 30, 2008 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If one is predisposed to the idea

That Oden is fragile, I understand how this sprain is great ammunition for that.

The timing is super duper lame. 3 minutes into his first game ever, against the Lakers while we’re playing like crap, on national TV, the game of the night… ugh.

Since he isn’t a guy who always has something wrong with him (like arthritis, tendinitis, aches and pains of his body saying NO) and his two injuries are more fluky than real injuries, it is easy for someone like me to argue against him being considered injury prone right away. Though, I know the sprain looks bad to someone else after the microfracture… and with how Oden looks.

And I think that is the root of it. Oden had less injury problems than LMA had in college, and LMA had a injury prone label but not nearly the same armchair analysis that Oden gets. I believe this is largely due to Oden’s extra skin on his face which give the appearance of wrinkles, and brilliant people deduce that since he LOOKS old, he must be old on the inside.

Of course, it’s also because he’s so talented and expected to be a great player… so any setback is magnified over a setback for good but not heavily hyped dudes like LMA or Roy.

Like I mentioned here and elsewhere, if he has truly healed from his micro he hasn’t had a ‘body breaking down’ type injury. It just ain’t like that, and I hope it ain’t like that for many years. The timing of the sprain is ridiculous, but the situation with how it happened just flat out isn’t.

One of those things that looks worse than it is, and we gotta be able to take the proper perspective: it’s just a sprain, his micro is cured, and the wrist is a few years ago. Might as well harp on Roy’s 3 knee surgeries or LMA’s shoulder surgery from after we drafted him. Those don’t seem to be bothering them, and neither of Oden’s real past injuries are bothering him either.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 31, 2008 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kaman just got dominated by Oden in like his fourth NBA game.

They went head to head all night. The Clippers called every play for Kaman. Oden took him one on one. He had something like 7 points and 6 rebounds in 30+ minutes.

Oden, playing less time, had 14 points (they called it 12) and 13 rebounds – despite the fact that, unlike Kaman, he wasn’t getting plays called for him.

Kaman’s a veteran coming off a career year. Oden’s a 20-year-old rookie coming off microfracture. And Oden STILL owned Kaman. Do you stand by that call?

Obviously, you would have to take Howard for Oden. He’s one of the top five players in the league already; whereas GO has the chance to develop into that. But NOBODY would trade Oden for Chandler or Bogut.

You really don’t think Oden will DESTROY Bogut when the Blazers play the Bucks later this year? He’s bigger, stronger, faster, more coordinated, a better shooter, a better shot blocker. The only thing Bogut has on Oden is a cool accent. And while I do value that, I don’t think it justifies a one-for-one swap.

Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.

by KP Corleone on Oct 30, 2008 8:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

great post

I know this latest injury sucks, but it’s sprained ankle, big f’n whoop. He came down on someone’s foot, it happens. He wasn’t just running down the court and his foot fell off.

Portland fans are so fragile. And this Blazers RULE! guy is annoying as hell. Just ignore him, it’s obvious he’s just baiting everybody for attention. BE needs an Ignore button.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Oct 30, 2008 9:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

This post is awesome. The time and effort it took to do the research and make it deserving of a rec. The fact that it highlights something to put this injury in perspective is another.

As far as Blazers RULE!, well, what can you do? You’re absolutely right that people need to ignore people who are just picking fights, even if they don’t realize that’s what they are doing. There is an old saying about arguing with something and something happens when you do that, but I’m too stupid to remeber how that goes. All in all, there are a couple of comic gems in those threads, and I think it helped highlight a few other things, but the energy it took to get involved in that was way too much.

by einman77 on Oct 30, 2008 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oden is not good

And might not ever be. Being able to dunk is not an offense, most players in this league can dunk. All he does is try to back down, back down, try to spin and then either lose the ball, get it stripped, or throw up an air ball hook shot.

I am really dissapointed that we threw the ball to him in the post so many times, when that is all he can do. Give it to Lamarcus instead.

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Oct 30, 2008 10:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Now, yes

Give him some time to develop his low post game, he’ll get it. Right now, he’s just thinking WAY too much.

He needs stop trying so hard to prove himself to everybody and just play basketball.

Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game

by iDea on Oct 30, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was Shaq great?

Under your critique would you argue that Shaq was not a great post player? This is ridiculous. Shaq is a hall of famer and probably one of the top 5 centers in NBA history.

Grant it, he does not have a lot of finesse but it doesn’t mean Oden can’t be effective.

In addition, how many points will Oden prevent with ability to block shots and rebound?

by eswan on Oct 30, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs

+1

Defense is important!

Even if Oden never develops anything more than a 3-5 foot offensive game (like Shaq), the defensive and passing abilities he has already shown make him more valuable than most other centers.

by Blodgett on Oct 30, 2008 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Curious

Do you have any stats from past players like David Robinson?

by jlarose78 on Oct 30, 2008 11:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately, No

Injury histories are not easy to find. You usually have to find some kind of bio, and lacking that you have to look up articles from previous years. That was my original goal; comparison against current centers, and comparison against the greats. The information out there is sparse and not all in one place, especially for players no longer in the NBA.

by Blodgett on Oct 30, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

GP?

Games played per year is not the clearest option, but it is readily available and should provide the most relevant information, namely how often and consistently the player was able to get on the court.

David Robinson
89-90 82
90-91 82
91-92 68
92-93 82
93-94 80
94-95 81
95-96 82
96-97 6
97-98 73
98-99 49 (Strike Year)
99-00 80
00-01 80
01-02 78
02-03 64

Healthy for the most part with one season almost entirely lost. At the end of his career it looks like he missed a few games, but that’s to be expected. It’s hard to compare at this point.

by portlandpete on Oct 31, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Olajuwon

84-85 82
85-86 68
86-87 75
87-88 79
88-89 82
89-90 82
90-91 56
91-92 70
92-93 82
93-94 80
94-95 72
95-96 72
96-97 78
97-98 47
98-99 50
99-00 44
00-01 58
01-02 61

I think the big difference between these two and Oden is that they didn’t have injuries early in their career. They played at least two full seasons without missing games. That’s what makes it scary with Oden. Yes 7 footers get injured a lot over their careers. Heck, pro athletes get injured a lot over their careers, but in most cases, there is a history of health before an injury occurs. Oden hasn’t shown that, at least not in the NBA. All we’ve seen of him are injuries with no prior experience of sustained health. That’s what makes it scary despite historical evidence that injuries have happened to the very best.

by portlandpete on Oct 31, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoops

Missed Olajuwon’s second season where it looks like he missed a chunk of games in reference to my “at least 2 full season without missing games” statement. But I think my point still stands that the panic is caused by the fact that Oden’s never not been injured.

by portlandpete on Oct 31, 2008 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually there is a good comparison

I was doing some research into this and Patrick Ewing is probably the closest comparison. He had some serious injuries in his rookie and sophomore years, even though he won rookie of the year. He then followed up those two years with 10 excellent years before again succumbing to injuries
85-86 NYK 50 – had serious knee injuries and an elbow injury
86-87 NYK 63 – all games were missed with sprained ligament in his left knee
87-88 NYK 82
88-89 NYK 80
89-90 NYK 82
90-91 NYK 81
91-92 NYK 82
92-93 NYK 81
93-94 NYK 79
94-95 NYK 79
95-96 NYK 76
96-97 NYK 78
97-98 NYK 26
98-99 NYK 38
99-00 NYK 62
00-01 SEA 79
01-02 ORL 65

by Blodgett on Oct 31, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Patrick Ewing is a great comparison in this case.

by AK1984 on Oct 31, 2008 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rec it but it's already got it's 5...

this post helps ease the …..rrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh factor.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Oct 30, 2008 12:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Great point

Great point. It’s way too early to make any conclusions about Oden. I agree with Dave’s article that the Blazer training staff should focus on his physical conditioning & health above building bulk.

I would even go as far as to recommend a good pilates/ yoga program.

by eswan on Oct 30, 2008 12:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

howard....and yao....

are the only 2 that I would trade for…..

but that’s why I’m not a nba gm. :)

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

by faith on Oct 30, 2008 12:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

O COME ON GUYS DONT GIVE UP ON ODEN

HES GREAT AND I LOVE HIM EVEN IF HED NEVER PUT ON A BLAZER JERSEY AGAIN

by Duck4Lif3 on Oct 30, 2008 3:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Blazers RULE! says Oden needs to earn respect.

….so I have decided not to respond to any of his messages until he earns MY respect.

So, here are some ways to do that:

1 – actually read what others write
2 – try to avoid juvenile arguments
3 – If you’ve already said something, don’t repeat it
4 – Consider not bothering to add the word “bro” or “bruh” to every post.

by kobestopper on Oct 30, 2008 4:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The unfortunate thing is the at Blazers RULE! kinda has a point.

But it’s lost in all his nonesense.

As near as I can tell he’s trying to say that until Oden gives a reason in an NBA game for us (Blazer fans) to get excited about him we should all simmer down. There’s a point there – I don’t necessarily agree with it 100%, but it could be argued. However, I would never try to argue it the way he is, obviously.

by erastus25 on Oct 30, 2008 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Solidarity

I am joining you in this move, Mr. Stopper

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 30, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not bashing you bro

I’m just reflecting on the fact that by constantly repeating yourself you’re kinda bungled up your arguments. Salt and honey, didn’t ya mama teach ya that……bro

by ryryslyry on Oct 30, 2008 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He has that ability

To change a game. When he gets on the floor the tempo changes and those around him seem to be more active without the ball. I was talking to some kid making me a sub yesterday who obviously wasn’t to big of a fan who was all excited about Rudy. He told me he thought the blazers have been too boring to watch in the last few years a Rudy adds that excitement factor. Anything to bring em in I guess…

by ryryslyry on Oct 30, 2008 5:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

joel?

Why was Joel left off the list? Not criticizing, just curious.

by clonigro on Oct 31, 2008 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I only put centers that we could trade for

Joel is better than a lot of the centers on this list, but he is already on our team. I just wanted people to be able to compare and see that there aren’t that many great centers in the NBA without significant injury histories.

by Blodgett on Oct 31, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

blazers Rule!

got on my post the other day, the one about whether oden should come off the bench and everyone got so distracted that the conversation completely dissolved. I was reacting to him as well as everyone else, and I probably shouldn’t have. He’s probably stoked that people are referencing him in posts he’s not even involved in, it’s just what he wants……

by specialguydurr! on Oct 31, 2008 10:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

there a reason NBA teams

normally have more 6’9"+ players than they need, purely to allow for little nagging injuries that occur, or to rest their starting PF/C. I mean wasnt that the reason we kept shavlik over jamaal tatum?

by Yawnie on Nov 1, 2008 12:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs