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Realignment of the Western Conference

I found myself counting the seconds until the game tomorrow, so even though this isn't a big concern, it gave me something to do instead of stare at the clock.  I hope this provides you a few minutes of distraction.

On the eve of the season I would like to point out a structural disadvantage of Portland basketball.  It's basically the only thing we can complain about these days, so I thought I would do that before we starting winning.  It doesn't seem like it would be that big of a deal to rearrange the divisions after the Sonics moved.  So, I'd like to present 3 alternate division makeups.  Please excuse my horrid "editing" of the pictures, I just wanted to include a visual aid to go along with the distance approximations I made.  The distances listed are the mean of 1 way air travel between Portland, for example, and all of its division rivals. 

 

Current:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

 

 

Northwest Division: 

Portland: 1128 miles

Minnesota: 892 miles

Denver: 628 miles

Utah: 700 miles

OKC: 907 miles

Div Average: 851 miles

Noteworthy: This division features the only 2 time zone difference (Pdx-Minn and Pdx-OKC) in the league.

Southwest Division:

Houston: 379 miles

San Antonio: 392 miles

New Orleans: 410 miles

Memphis: 500 miles

Dallas: 326 miles

Div. Average: 401 miles

Pacific Division:

L.A. L*kers: 267 miles

L.A. Clippers: 267 miles

Sacramento: 367 miles

Golden State: 354 miles

Phoenix: 500 miles

Div Average: 351 miles

Alternate 1:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Pacific Division:

Portland: 671 miles

L.A. L*kers: 387 miles

L.A. Clippers: 387 miles

Golden State: 328 miles

Sacramento: 326 miles

Div. average: 419 miles

Midwest Division:

Minnesota: 728 miles

Utah: 850 miles

Denver: 600 miles

OKC: 620 miles

Memphis: 800 miles

Div. Average: 719 miles

Southwest Division:

Phoenix: 1000 miles

San Antonio: 443 miles

Dallas: 438 miles

Houston: 508 miles

New Orleans: 625 miles

Div. Average: 602 miles

Alternate 2:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Northwest Division:

Portland: 660 miles

Golden State: 548 miles

Utah: 540 miles

Denver: 818 miles

Sacramento: 520 miles

Div. Average: 617 miles

Southwest Division:

L.A. L*kers: 730 miles

L.A. Clippers: 730 miles

Phoenix: 640 miles

San Antonio: 860 miles

Houston: 1061 miles

Div. Average: 804 miles

Midwest Division:

Dallas: 468 miles

OKC:  432 miles

Memphis: 487 miles

New Orleans: 594 miles

Minnesota: 817 miles

Div. Average: 560 miles

Alternate 3: 

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Pacific Division:

Portland: 671 miles

L.A. L*kers: 387 miles

L.A. Clippers: 387 miles

Golden State: 328 miles

Sacramento: 326 miles

Div. average: 419 miles

Midwest Division:

Phoenix: 911 miles

Denver: 530 miles

Utah: 670 miles

Minnesota: 860 miles

OKC: 750 miles

Div. Average: 744 miles

Southwest Division:

Houston: 379 miles

San Antonio: 392 miles

New Orleans: 410 miles

Memphis: 500 miles

Dallas: 326 miles

Div. Average: 401 miles

 

There are plenty of other things that should be considered other than just travel distance, like divison rivalries or division names that actually describe where its teams are located, but this post doesn't need to get any larger.  Does Phoenix tend to get the short end of the stick? Is it even worth the trouble to rearrange the Western conference? Thoughts?  

Poll
Which division arrangement do you prefer?
The current alignment
5 votes
The first alternate listed
81 votes
The second alternate listed
25 votes
The third alternate listed
37 votes
Other alignment
6 votes
No preference whatsoever
0 votes
You must have been really, really bored
3 votes
I like your mad MS paint skillz
16 votes

173 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 47 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Comments

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Your first realignment proposal makes the most sense.

There’s a division with five teams that are actually located nearby the Pacific Ocean, a division with five teams located in states across the Southern United States, and a division with five teams throughout three different subregions of the Midwest (i.e., the Mountain West, the Upper Midwest, & the Mid-South).

by AK1984 on Oct 27, 2008 4:45 PM PDT reply actions  

I like the 2nd alternate

Because it starts another “OKC vs. Dallas” rivalry, you just can’t split those two cities up

by two4larue on Oct 27, 2008 4:56 PM PDT reply actions  

Yep.

The NW division spans two time zones, and the SW division spans three, but this is easily rectified by our Dear Leader Stern, if he simply decrees that all NBA cities in the Western Conference convert to PST / PDT during the duration of the NBA season. He should do that anyway, IMO.
… … …

"The match in Los Angeles is a good opportunity to begin to demonstrate that we want to make war." Rudy Fernández (translated)

by G_dubs on Oct 27, 2008 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

but

But it puts five teams in Portland’s division. I like four, leaving room for an expansion team in Seattle

A beard on a blind man! Too much, I say.

by isaacjoe on Oct 28, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

there would be

5 teams in each division, like there is now

There is probably no more terrible instance of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man — with human flesh.
Paul Muad'Dib - Dune (Frank Herbert)

My Translation: My Dad is a dude just like me, and my sons are dudes like me also. I love that.
Season Tix: Section 315, with my sons

by johnv59 on Oct 28, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

first alternate is the obvious choice

option 3 is ok too – it essentially trades us and Phoenix. Option 2 breaks up the Texas teams, which I just don’t see Stern going for at all.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Oct 27, 2008 4:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Phoenix and the Lakers will stay in one division as long as Shaq is active for the rivalry with Kobe

After that, the NBA might be open to consider alternatives. I think option 2 has no chance, the others are good with the first alternative getting my current vote. Phoenix sounds like South to me, not like Midwest.

Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)

by Norsktroll on Oct 27, 2008 5:06 PM PDT reply actions  

Why can i only vote once?

I wanted to vote for alternate 3 and for your mad MS paint skills

"It's not who jumps the highest -- it's who wants it the most" Buck Williams

by Fund A Mental on Oct 27, 2008 5:11 PM PDT reply actions  

my bad

skillz

"It's not who jumps the highest -- it's who wants it the most" Buck Williams

by Fund A Mental on Oct 27, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I lobby for Alt-3 whenever I get the chance.

I’m sure Norsktroll is right about Stern not wanting to separate LA and Phoenix until Shaq retires at the end of next season… or is it this season? If Stern drags his heels after that, there can be only one reason: he thinks the Sonics will rise from the ashes. If they do, maybe they should call themselves the Seattle Phoenix instead. Ha ha, that would be funny when they play the Suns. Better idea: OK moves to Seattle and Minnie moves to Boise.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Oct 27, 2008 5:28 PM PDT reply actions  

What would also make sense is the NBA trying to create a rivalry between Dallas and OKC – and putting them in a SW division. Probably we will have to look at the bigger picture anyway, even with a team moving between East and West.

Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)

by Norsktroll on Oct 27, 2008 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sooners-Longhorns

There’s a natural rivalry already. When the “Thunder” gets their act together and starts beating the Mavs, things could get interesting…

by two4larue on Oct 28, 2008 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

The big wild card in the equation is the Sonics.

As in, is Seattle going to replace their departed team Browns-stylee,
and if so, will it be soon? (If so, realignment should wait for that.)
And, where will their “new” team come from?

"Mister Oden is a very, very big human being." - Jerryd Bayless

by QualityPie on Oct 27, 2008 5:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Time Zones!!!

You are right I never realized that our divison spans three different time zones. Each of the other divisons in the western conference are concentrated in one time zone. With the exception with Arizona for part of the year.

by RipCityRoyCity on Oct 27, 2008 5:32 PM PDT reply actions  

I think theres a good chance memphis will move to seattle

They do have young talent, but I really doubt that those future high flying high scoring budding stars are gonna want to stay on a team that is perpetually bad and seemingly always in cost-cutting mode. I believe the team is already for sale, and the team does not do well there.

by oden is GOD OF WAR on Oct 27, 2008 5:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Although I live within a half-hour drive from Seattle, ...

it seems to me that Kansas City is a more practical landing spot for the Memphis Grizzlies.

by AK1984 on Oct 27, 2008 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

no, it doesn't

Seattle has is a bigger market with a history of supporting NBA basketball. The KC market is already saturated—which is why the Royals can’t compete in MLB.

--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog

by David Piper on Oct 28, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Grizzlies return to the Pac NW?

What is this, a migratory cicadian pattern?

by two4larue on Oct 28, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

the one who gets stuffed..

in any alternate scenario is phoenix. they would lobby hard against all of these.

by blazersunited on Oct 27, 2008 6:44 PM PDT reply actions  

I have a problem

With the fact that we call anything east of Colorado ‘Western’.

by DonkeyShins on Oct 27, 2008 6:55 PM PDT reply actions  

The center of population is somewhere in Missouri

Memphis and New Orleans are very borderline, but it’s not that bad. Maybe a Great Plains conference is in order?

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 27, 2008 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

You'd hate the East coast.

They think Cleveland is in the Mid-West.

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"In vino veritas." - Latin proverb
"Ich sitze hier und trinke mein gutes Wittenbergisch Bier und das Reich Gottes kommt von ganz alleine" - Martin Luther
"μηκέτι ὑδροπότει, ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ διὰ τὸν στόμαχον καὶ τὰς πυκνάς σου ἀσθενείας." - 1 Timothy 5:23

by T Darkstar on Oct 27, 2008 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yep

it’s gotta be a mentality left over from when Jefferson was president. Everything on our side of the Appalachian mountains is “the west” as if the Louisiana Purchase were still unexplored (by whites) and Ohio was ‘wild’.

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 27, 2008 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Full Realignment

You might as well considering teams flipping conferences.

If baseball could move teams from the AL to NL (Milwaukee), and Football from AFC to NFC, then basketball teams could (potentially) switch conferences.

M, period. Fresh, comma.

by manzell on Oct 27, 2008 7:10 PM PDT reply actions  

It wouldn't be a stretch to see Chicago back in the West.

They were out here once before. If we went by Geography:

West

Pacific:
Portland, Sacramento, Golden State, Lakers, Clippers

Southwest:
Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Oklahoma City

Midwest:
Utah, Denver, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago

East
Southeast:
New Orleans, Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte

Northeast:
Boston, Philadelphia, New York, New Jersey, Washington

Great Lakes:
Detroit, Indiana, Toronto, Cleveland, Memphis

One of Two Official Blazer's Edge Poets Laureate for the 2008-2009 Season

"In vino veritas." - Latin proverb
"Ich sitze hier und trinke mein gutes Wittenbergisch Bier und das Reich Gottes kommt von ganz alleine" - Martin Luther
"μηκέτι ὑδροπότει, ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ διὰ τὸν στόμαχον καὶ τὰς πυκνάς σου ἀσθενείας." - 1 Timothy 5:23

by T Darkstar on Oct 27, 2008 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

for geography

take this, but move Indy to the MW, Chicago to GL, Memphis to SE, and Charlotte to NE

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Oct 27, 2008 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

good stuff Magnum

Those maps are very helpful to understand the alternatives. And darn straight I don’t see how the NBA can avoid conference switcheroos.

Hopefully in a few years Stern will be gone and the new commish can get to work on this. Heck I’d like to get started tomorrow.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

by fisheyes on Oct 27, 2008 7:28 PM PDT reply actions  

thanks

the maps were a big help for me when I was mulling this over. I’m especially glad they help considering how 3rd grade they look. I did my best to make the dot placements accurate though!

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 27, 2008 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

is it possible we may see a conference realignment

if the west continues to be so much better than the East for much longer? The East does look to be better this year though.

by oden is GOD OF WAR on Oct 27, 2008 8:33 PM PDT reply actions  

other options

Their is continual talk about a 6-team division in Europe in 5-10 years. If you do this, you are at 36 teams, or 18 per conference (3 6-team division each). This essentially moves 3 of the “border” teams in the East into the West. chicago, Milwaukie and Indy make the most since geographically. That gives you the following:

WEST
Midwest:
Chi, Min, Mil, Ind, Mem, NO
Southwest:
Dal, SA, Hou, OKC, Uta, Den
Pacific:
LAL, LAC, Pho, Sac, GS, Por
EAST
Europe:
(6 new teams)
Northeast:
NY, Brooklyn, Bos, Tor, Cle, Det
Southeast:
Mia, Orl, Atl, Cha, Was, Phi

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Oct 27, 2008 9:41 PM PDT reply actions  

I get to nitpick the nitpicker!

Typo: Milwaukee and Indy make the most sense geographically.

I’ll give you a pass on misspelling Milwaukee. And not capitalizing Chicago. And forgetting the ‘s’ on division the 2nd time is appears in your post. And for using their instead of there. But that’s it.

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 27, 2008 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Milwaukee is easy to misspell if you're from Portland

Because there happens to be a suburb with a name that is pronounced the same way but spelled differently.

by royroty on Oct 28, 2008 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

keeping the teams we have in the west,

and align them like this…portland,utah, golden state, sac, l.a. (take your pick)……la (the other one),pheonix and the stateoftexas(s.a, houston, dallas)…..minni denver memphis n.orleans, n the hillbillies.

(forgive me if anyone already did it like that, I didn’t really read all the comments, but I’m gonna now :))

The faith (and I'm a guy) perverts. :)

by faith on Oct 27, 2008 10:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Glad to see this Magnum

I actually have a similar experiment sitting on my desk right now. Literally almost the same as yours. I was very close to submitting it a couple times 2 weeks ago, but your presentation puts it together better than I would have.

I favor the 1st option, but the problem you run into is there’s no perfect option. Maybe that’s why I never submitted it. It’s clear we kind of get the shaft with the division we’re in right now, so a change would definitely help us. Puting all of the Pacific coast teams together is an obvious must. There was once a time when the Pacific Division was: Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, Golden State, LA. If Seatle were still around we would have a problem of 6 teams on the coast, but with them gone, the solution is obvious.

I don’t remember exactly when things got changed, or why, but what we have now is far from ideal. WHO IS OUR DIVISION RIVAL? CAN WE REALLY HAVE A RIVALRY WITH TEAMS SO FAR AWAY?

I kept on trying to keep Oklahoma together with the Texas teams, but doing so makes other areas messy.

Yep, option 1 makes the most sense. Can we get this done soon?

by GoBlazersWIN on Oct 27, 2008 10:10 PM PDT reply actions  

It's true

there is no ideal option. Some teams will still have a lot of traveling. Phoenix seems to be getting the bad end of the deal in the options I listed, especially since they have relatively little division traveling now.

One of the reasons I really don’t like the current arrangement is that Portland, OKC and Minn have to travel across 2 time zones to play a DIVISION rival. That just doesn’t make sense. Portland already has to deal with being the most ‘remote’ basketball franchise. Long distance division rivals shouldn’t be another problem.

And you’re right. How can you have a rivalry between teams that are 1000 miles apart? I don’t run into many Wolves fans here in Oregon. I could troll other teams’ conversation threads on ESPN, but the sorts of people you usually find there are L*ker fans (for example) that would argue a wall if it had a poster of Kobe looking like fool on it. Not satisfying.

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 27, 2008 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right now the NW division is just a catch-all.

They had a bunch of teams sitting there in no man’s land in the middle of the country, and couldn’t figure out what to do with them. So they played favorites with everyone else, and put all the red-headed step-children into one division and called it the NW division. Even though most of the teams are not in the NW. Every one of the teams in the NW division actually have a team in another division who is much closer to them than most of the teams in their division.

by GoBlazersWIN on Oct 27, 2008 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

A few months ago

I saw something akin to this on another basketball site, but they were also switching teams between East/West. Your realignment is much more practical and really makes sense. Send it to the commish!

Things happen for a reason they say, but I say there's a reason things happen.

by sixth on Oct 27, 2008 11:10 PM PDT reply actions  

It's only fair

We have the talent. Other teams have the divisional/travel advantages. It helps them to have a remote glimmer of hope. Foolish, misplaced hope, but hope nonetheless.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Oct 28, 2008 2:14 AM PDT reply actions  

the lonely west is just that

Good post though. I WAS ONLY ABLE TO WASTE 30 SECONDS HERE THOUGH. is it game time yet?

by 50backflips on Oct 28, 2008 12:52 PM PDT reply actions  

only 30 seconds?

even if you didn’t like the OP, there’s been some pretty good conversation.

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 28, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

The third alternative

The third one makes the most sense in terms of distances to travel. Nobody averages over 1000 miles travel and the divisions are the most even in terms of distances to travel.

by boppitywop on Oct 28, 2008 1:06 PM PDT reply actions  

No point in realignment

To me this is much ado about nothing, if anything the NBA just needs to get rid of the divisions, they are meaningless in almost every way.

Teams play balanced schedules within the conference (4-5 games vs. everyone with no unbalance towards divisions).

In the playoffs, the better record gets HFA.

The only meaning left to divisions is the guarantee of the 4th seed (which is meaningless if the 5th seed gets HFA).

I say just get rid of the divisions, but they really do not matter, Portland would travel just as much regardless of the division alignment.

by warner28 on Oct 28, 2008 5:57 PM PDT reply actions  

We only played 3 games against

San Antonio, Phoenix, Memphis and the Clippers last season whereas the division opponents are always 4 games.

You’re right about there being no tangible significance to divisions vs just conferences. But if we want to keep them and add a layer of rivalries and such, why not have those divisions make sense?

WWKPD?
Ambassador to the Miami Heat

by Magnum on Oct 28, 2008 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are right, 3-4 games vs. everyone. But still pretty meaningless.

I really would prefer no divisions or 7/8 team divisions with an actual unbalanced schedule (and playoff structure that follows that formula) to the current meaningless made up divisions.

by warner28 on Oct 28, 2008 6:31 PM PDT reply actions  

First one

I like the first one. Portland can be in the same division as the Lakers, and Phoenix and San Antonio can be in the same division as well and intensify their rivalry from the recent playoff meetings.

by PABroncofan on Oct 29, 2008 7:55 AM PDT reply actions  

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