Sam Smith is back, and he's not a fan of Greg Oden
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 27, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
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PrintFirst of all: Dave, you wiley sonofagun. I think your ambassador idea is really cool, but I'll be darned (darned!) if the BaB ambassador has ill intentions.
(Tom, to help ease you in, you'd get off on a better foot saying Kobe > MJ than LMA > Tyrus Thomas)
Anyway, on to the fanpost: I had not seen much of Oden in the preseason since his eye-opening debut, so Sam Smith's (he received a 'buyout' from the cash-strapped Chicago Tribune but recently returned to work for Bulls.com, in a supposed independent role) take caught me off-guard:
9 [in the West]. Trail Blazers.
So I'm not convinced yet. Greg Oden hasn't struck me yet as ready for the NBA and there isn't a point guard there. They are the young roster that is the envy of the league, and they are inching up on getting in the mix. But they still continue to work in too many new and young pieces to be consistent enough.
...
So is Greg Oden washed up? Hey, it's never to soon to try to wreck a guy's career. That's what they mean about the pros being a tougher world. The Next Great Big Man has come under some critical scrutiny—even in loving Portland—with some very uninspired play in the preseason. He hasn't played for a year, so we have to give the kid a break. He's averaged 11.5 points and 7.8 assists in 23.7 minutes in the preseason. Which is OK, but not Russell, Chamberlain, Hakeem and Shaq, who he was supposed to be. To be fair, he never said that. He's got two blocks in six games. His offense basically is getting the ball deep and dunking. But even the writer who follows the team used words like "awkward," "nondescript" and "lumbered." Brandon Roy and coach Nate McMillan were quoted saying Oden is just too tight and tense.
But people close to Oden know what's wrong. Generally, big men, despite their menacing demeanor, tend to be the most sensitive NBA players. Remember Wilt saying, "Nobody loves Goliath." Oden isn't a natural leader; just a natural talent. He needs support. He needs Mike Conley, his old running buddy and the son of his agent.
Conley, of course, is the Memphis Grizzlies' starting point guard, though one of four point guards they have and hardly irreplaceable on a contending team. The Trailblazers, without a point guard, are dying to get Conley. So far the price has been LaMarcus Aldridge. Too high for Portland.
But at some point, if it's going to mean the development and happiness of the Next Great Thing, they may have to. This is also something to watch. Rudy Fernandez looks like he could be a star, and Memphis is trying to collect them. The Trailblazers appear to have some great young talent in reserve, like Nicholas Batum, who looks like he's being showcased, and Jerryd Bayless. And if they were willing to take Darko off the hands of the Grizzlies, who knows. Maybe even Antoine Walker. There could be something there, and I have the feeling Oden may not be all he can be without Conley.
Don't worry, I found it strange too, and a massive leap in armchair psychology.
That said, the Blazers should consider dealing Aldridge for Conley, because Aldridge is a jump-shooting ninny. :)
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Ahhhhhhh!
Brilliant!
I can see we chose the perfect Ambassador for you. Have fun with Tom. And have fun, Tom.
By the way, I was on vacation and on dial-up so I didn’t get a chance to thank you for calling in to Gavin’s show the morning Casey and I were on, Tom. I high-fived around the studio when I saw your name on the screener board.
—Dave
And by "brilliant"
I am talking about the blog-to-blog repartee, not Smith’s analysis, which is way too based on what’s going on inside Greg Oden’s head after six pre-season games and half an interview. I can’t remember a player since Bill Walton that has gotten so much psychoanalysis so early in his career.
Aldridge for Conley is a huge no-go now, in the future, and forever. I love the Bulls-freight-laden dig though! Trade us Tyrus Thomas and we’ll send Shavlik Randolph your way. D. Rose may not ever be all he can be without a guy who’s scored 20 in a pre-season game to pass to. (C=
—Dave
by Dave on Oct 27, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's not fair, Dave. For shame.
Tyrus Thomas is better well, has more potential, anyway, than Randolph. I think we should throw in a second round pick to even it up. We’ve got a few of them lying around somewhere that we picked up from some idiot smart GM somehow.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
RE: Conley
Of course Oden would probably like to play with him again and Conley wouldn’t be a bad choice for a future starting PG. Before the draft supposedly there were talks of Sergio and Travis for Conley. Later there were rumors that those talks had been revived. But I doubt anything would get concrete regarding such a deal until just before the trade deadline — if at all since Conley looked very good in the preseason. Rather the Grizzlies will try to move Crittendon again. And there is no way the Blazers move Rudy plus Nicholas or Bayless for whoever player now.
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
+1
Conley is the best PG fit, in the league. Not a dig at all to Blake; I still think he’s our guy, but if we’re gonna trade for a pg I like conley.
...................... And I'll toss in a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder and will even "#25" myself for the ATF for saying it...
Before the draft supposedly there were talks of Sergio and Travis for Conley. Later there were rumors that those talks had been revived.
"It's not a joke -- it's not a game." — B-Rex
Fantastic.
Oden’s washed up before his first game and suddenly the Grizzles are a “contending” team.
Brilliant writing Sam Smith.
Rudyculize: The act of Rudy making others look slow, dim and generally oafish.
http://www.myspace.com/y5k
Was that what he meant? Quite a liberal use of the term, Sam.
Maybe by contending he meant the Griz are contending to finish another season with a losing record. Just like I’m contending to go hit the crapper in a couple minutes.
You have to fight to do that?
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
Comes easy for me, usually
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
We know, jscot.
We know.
There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.
by LaoTzu on Oct 27, 2008 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oden is really averaging almost 8 assists?
Or was that supposed to be rebounds?
I hope Steve Blake sees this. “There isn’t a point guard there.” ? That’s just insulting. A little more motivation couldn’t hurt an already highly motivated Steve Blake.
Maybe his real plan is to lure us into trading for Captain Kirk?
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
Yeah...watched him lose his temper in a couple of Duke/MD games
not pretty..good for his intensity level in general
While i would take Conley if he was available
there is no way he is worth LMA level talent, maybe not even Outlaw type talent, he is raw and unproven, which is what he is worth, raw unproven talent, maybe along the lines of Bayless, Batum, or Sergio. I would take back Antoine Walker before Darko only because he can be waived at the end of this season, (or even during this season if he is a distraction) and his contact is not guaranteed, (meaning we should still have our cap space for this summer). With that said, in a perfect world it would be nice to have Conley as a starting PG on this team with Sergio or Blake backing him up, but in the real world I don’t see how it can really happen.
Here is ESPN’s insider look at Conley
"2007-08 season: Conley missed 29 games with rib and shoulder injuries, mostly in the early part of the season, and then seemed behind the rest of the class once he came back. In particular, the fourth-overall pick in the draft had trouble adjusting to the fact that he can’t survive in the NBA on quickness alone.
Conley struggled as a shooter, rarely attempting 3s and hitting only 33.0 percent of the ones he tried. He only hit 37.0 percent of his long 2s and even air-balled a free throw in one game (he finished at 73.2 percent from the line). All told, his TS% was unimpressive and so was his scoring rate.
What was perhaps more surprising is that his point guard numbers weren’t anything to write home about, either. Conley was only 35th in pure point rating and 32nd in steals per minute, areas in which he was expected to hold up well even as a rookie. He was only 20 years old and the injury time certainly set him back, but the Grizz expected more than this.
Scouting report: Conley is small even for a point guard at 6-1, 180 pounds, and although he’s a good leaper that only evens out the size issue for a split second. He’s quick enough that he should become a good ball-stopper against penetration, but last year his main response to the pick-and-roll was to run into the screener and give up.
At the offensive end, the left-hander has superb quickness that should allow him to carve up defenses off dribble penetration, but right now opponents don’t respect his jump shot and just go under the screen against him. He needs to prove he can make midrange J’s — at the very least — to open up more lanes to the basket.
Because of his size, durability is also a concern with Conley, and the fact he had multiple injuries last season isn’t reassuring.
2008-09 outlook: The Grizzlies will give Conley the keys to the offense to start the year, but with Kyle Lowry breathing down his neck and Javaris Crittenton another possibility, they may be short on patience if he gets off to a slow start. A number of point guards have had huge breakout years in their second pro season, and nobody would be shocked if Conley joined the list. But after a rocky rookie year, the burden is on him to prove he was worthy of being taken with the fourth-overall pick. "
Not really a glowing report, he had his ups and downs last year, some potential is there, but his frame is not what the Blazers seem to be looking for, (currently all our players are 6’3" and taller).
I guess LMA will be the David West of this year, no respect until he kills your team.
by usmcr3049 on Oct 27, 2008 1:15 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You made that much more complex than you needed it to be.
I have this simple equation makes it much easier:
Talented Big>Talented Small
Not much more to say, even though you so eloquently put it as above.
The season cannot get here soon enough.
by SpyderRyder on Oct 27, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chris Paul is 6-1 as well
And Conley is athletic in terms of quickness and elevations, so he is a good fit for the point guard spot. As stated above, I too wouldn’t mind to get him – just not so much for the prize Smith suggests it would take.
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
Yeah
Conley + 2in, 20lbs, better 3pt shot = Bayless
Check out their preseason stats:
Bayless:
21.3 min
.479 fg
.500 3pt
1.9 reb
2.7 ast
.3 stl
2.71 to
9.4 pts
Conley:
27.4 min
.458 fg
.389 3pt
4.1 reb
3.1 ast
.4 stl
1.5 to
9.8 pts
So in most catergories Bayless wins on a per minute basis except for rebounds and tos. Add to the fact that this is Bayless’ 1st year and, oh yeah, we get to keep LMA also, we are fine with what we have @ PG.
The season cannot get here soon enough.
by SpyderRyder on Oct 28, 2008 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
And yet
there were people suggesting we trade Oden for Rose…
I’ll keep the big, thank you.
We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.
Conely for Trout.
I would make the trade in heart beat, and throw in some filler.
"Great Oden's raven!" - Ron Burgandy
by danevan on Oct 27, 2008 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
his frame is not what the Blazers seem to be looking for, (currently all our players are 6’3" and taller).
Agreed, Nate likes his PGs to have size. Bayless is not much taller than Conley but Rex has a hard body
Oden said after the ‘07 draft that though he and Conley will always be friends, he (Greg) didn’t think he “needed” MCJr to be his running mate in the NBA.
Nate McMillan has always had a penchant for taller, defensive-minded point guards ...
who can also shoot the rock; therefore, Mike Conley, Jr. probably wouldn’t impress McMillan.
You speak the truth AK1984
I even thought this on draft day, when some wanted us to move up to get GO and Conley.
by parkinglotj on Oct 27, 2008 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Good analysis, usmcr
There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.
Let me get this straight
Smith thinks 11.5 and 7.8 rebounds in 24 minutes a game means Oden is playing uninspired basketball…look Sam, the dude wasn’t able to play in live games for a year, and is still rounding himself into playing shape (just for the record, if you factor his numbers out to 30 minutes, which is what a lot of us are thinking he’ll play per game, his line would be 14.4 points, 9.8 rebounds and 1.6 assists per game). He’s also doing this while still being very raw on the offensive end…Imagine what he’ll be able to do when he’s all the way back in playing shape, and figures out the pro game! Lets also not forget the dude is just 20 years old (He won’t turn 21 until January 22nd). I’m curious, how can someone who man-handled every big man he faced in the preseason (including Chris Kaman, a dude who averaged 17 points, 12 rebounds and 3 blocks a game last year) not be NBA ready??? Just more half-informed nonsense from a guy who probably hasn’t even seen Oden play in a preseason game! Thanks for nothing Mr. Smith!
by lefty6283 on Oct 27, 2008 1:47 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Oden is washed up?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah, and the last preseason team against the jazz with our scrubs, two 2nd teir players is the indication of how we’ll play against the jazz this year, (who played boozer for prolonged minutes). in… PRESEASON!!!
We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.
What the?
I think you just point and laugh at this. He has no logic to back up any of his statements, and he wrote that article like Oden just went scoreless in 15 straight games or something.
2 blocks in 6 games?
Time to not totally rely on pre-season stats, since I saw Oden get at least 3 blocks with my own peepers here in LA.
I know Sam Smith was dumb, but this is idiotic. It’s too soon for us fans to say Oden is THE MAN now, and waaaaay too soon to say he has sucked. He hasn’t, if anyone was wondering— he dominated out there in LA, and has looked great at times and a rookie at others. What a shock.
I wish Shaq/Hakeem/Ewing/Robinson came out after their freshman year, so people would remember how raw they were at first. Because, they weren’t their NBA selves as 20 year olds. It is crazy but true.
The Oden we see now is plenty good, and The Oden we will get in a few years (hell, just 50 games from now) will be much differenter and better-er.
Mortimer
In official block counting, he is right. Even Shavlik got more blocks. But Oden was the second-baddest offensive rebounder with 23 of the preseason (after Okafor, who played two more games), which makes me very happy. An offensive rebound for Greg usually equals an instant dunk, a trip to the free throw line or an outlet pass to an open guy. He will be more valuable offensively than people give him credit for.
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
I agree
His offense is a lot better than people thought. You had Eric Snow on NBAtv, a dude most people think will become a good coach, thinking Oden will STRUGGLE to hit double digit points.
He’ll have that just off of offensive boards!
When you are that big, it is nearly enough. What puts him over the top is his HANDS, and a good nose for the ball that’ll get better. Being able to palm the ball and catch nearly any pass is what will get Oden lotsa easy dunks.
Without ever playing a game, Oden is double or triple teamed and shows the ability to make really nice passes. If he had no passing skill, like Z-Bo level bad, THAT WOULD BE OK. Dwight Howard is that bad at passing and he does fine. But, Oden is a good passer for his position—and his age— and it’ll only help him and our entire offense. Unless your name is Shaq or Howard or Yao, you gotta double Oden.
I mean, who else is that POWERFUL? And he’s 20!
I do not understand anyone who says his pre-season was a dissapointment. If that was the eternal and only version of Oden we’re gonna get, yeah… I’d be sad. He’d still be a really good center, but not great.
Does anyone remember Lebron’s pre-season? Howard’s? Shaq’s mediocre first two years in college?
Oden’s non-career thus far has been paid an awful lot of attention, and by people who aren’t watching the games. It is silliness personified. Everything aside from his lack of conditioning has been very encouraging, and since we know he can play 30 mins and play it well already we know his conditioning will get better.
People just wanna drink the pee of hate and the poop of jealousy.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Oct 27, 2008 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah - comparing young Shaq and old Shaq is like night and day. Oden shouldn't even get that big.
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
by Norsktroll on Oct 27, 2008 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Re/ those blocks...
As usual, stats lie. Apart from the fact that GO had a few uncredited blocks: guys tend not to challenge him. They know his rep coming out of college and they don’t want to be embarrassed.
If there’s one thing NBA players hate, it’s getting dunked on. #2 is having their shot blasted into the 10th row. Watch the points in the paint stats this season if you want to see a MEANINGFUL statistic. Teams’ paint scoring will drop off the charts when GO is in the game. They’ll settle for shooting jumpers—and missing plenty of those.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
Is there any relation
between Sam and Steven A. Smith?
Sam Smith has always struck me as
a) someone who likes creating trade rumors, usually out of thin air
and
b) a guy who likes the sound of his own voice
Lets see who has better numbers at the end of the year – Blake or Conley.
And lets see how Greg’s rookie numbers stack up to Dwight Howard’s or Andrew Bynum’s their rookie year. For that matter, I suspect Oden will have better numbers this year than Bynum.
hakkaa päälle !
Sam Smith
Is a tool. We know it, he knows it, Bulls fans know it. But its not their fault. They didnt pick to get stuck with him. Just like the poor Knicks have to suffer thru Steven A Smith and Peter Vecsey.
All three fit the same mold. If you dont know it, umm Make it UP!
"Why would we lie to ourselves dude?"
"Be excellent to each other."
"All we are is dust in the wind, dude."
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."
The Wisdom of Bill S Preston Esquire and Ted Theodore Logan
by GreatOden'sRaven on Oct 27, 2008 5:25 PM PDT reply actions
The Blazers are the perfect media buzz team,
it comes with the territory they have created in the past 3 years(attempting a complete turnaround with the franchise)4 years ago the Blazers changed direction for the better ..drafting players with the idea of making a team for the long haul…. Oden as the # 1 pick and getting Rudy through some slick draft moves…add them to Roy and Aldridge and your starting to build the foundation for a new “dream team” of the future…..
you always take gambles when you draft young players with skills…will they mature fast enough?Can any lacking fundamentals be overcome?will they be defeated by their own NBA hype?…
You get a Roy and you get instant stability, and the gamble on Aldridge has paid earlier than expected dividends…Rudy was a great cost effective gamble…Oden would have been any teams # pick…Batum could turn out to be a steal. Bayless may never become a good point guard, but they still got a good player, never-the-less…
Yup, we haven’t proven a thing yet, but we don’t need to. We are building a team and always look at it as work in progress….so if we find we are missing a player or two, or if we just need to let our players play, then that’s what we will progress to….
There is no way of knowing anything about what we have until we play at least half the season. To speculate on what we need or whether a player has made the grade, at his point, is absurd…..but it is fun for the media to kick around and it’s value is only in that context……
How could anyone know anything about what this teams needs…we haven’t played a single minute of NBA ball yet …I’m sure we will leave them a lot of room for comment, but, the players on this team should not worry about disappointing anyone’s expectations,….they just need to go out and play some ball……
The only thing I learned was
you can still get paid to write nonsense.
by ColoradoBlazerFan on Oct 27, 2008 6:16 PM PDT reply actions
Good point
and the more attention we pay to it, the more he will write. We’ve learned how to let the trollers go off by themselves on this site, next step is just to ignore those same people with a bigger stage.
I should learn that lesson
and quit doing it here for free.
The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.
The real question is:
Does Sam Smith have a R.O.Y. vote?
Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.
"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum
NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"
I wonder if he still has a ROY vote
We got a great chance to be Swirsky’d again. RIGHT UP THE FAN-HOLE.
I mean, he’ll have seen Rose every day in practice and Rose would be just as good as Oden if he had the same teammates and played the same minutes and whatnot! I can see it now.
OH, that Swirsky! Wah wah wah waaaaaaaaaah.
Mortimer
Just imagine if Rose would be 7 feet tall :)
Yeah, we probably shouldn’t plan for any votes from Chicago, Miami, Memphis and Milwaukee in the various rookie votings.
Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)
Dang I missed a lot
I was on “vacation” in Oregon and just got home. I had spotty internet access most of my trip. I read a lot of Bulls previews in magazines. I still don’t know jack because now that the season has started, lots of people’s opinion has changed.
This space for rent.
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