A J Quick Vindication, rec this
At the end of the Olive podcast yesterday (http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2008/10/1023_quick_chat_oden_improving.html) Quick had a few comments for the fans about his article on Oden. He wasn't all that pleased with us as a fan base.
I'm with him.
I won't defend him based on the tenor and tone of his article. It needs no defense. If you thought he was somehow incriminating Oden, you simply misread and misintrepreted the article. A writer has an obligation to make his point obvious, or apparent, only to a certain degree. He did so. If you misread it, you'd do well to seek interpretive assistance at a community college prior to posting comments again.
Let's get things very clear: reading doesn't mean recognizing the language and forming an opinion based on nothing more than the concomittance of a few sentences. There is an implicit obligation on the part of the reader to try to understand the point of the author. The project of journalism is discursive (a matter of discourse). A reader who does not attempt to interpret the point of view of the author is guilty of trangressing the intellectual endeavor. In lay speak, if you don't try to understand what the author is trying to say, you make the world dumber (it doesn't have electrolytes). Why bother reading if you don't try?
Our population has become accustomed to hearing and reading what it wants to read and hear.
Journalism is a business. Because of business interests in an ever more crowded market, Panda Bear journalism replaces the critical and fact checking press we used to have (or at least I pretend we used to have). Big money figured out that if you tell people what they already think, they give you their money: the lesson of Fox News. Can we blame Murdock for trying to make a buck? Not really. But, because it worked, it totally destroyed television news' coverage of political events. You simply cannot trust what you see on TV.
This is the audience that reacted so vehemently to Quick's article. These readers didn't want to read that Oden was 'underwhelming.' Nothing in their worlds taught them recently that they ought to attempt to understand why Quick wasn't telling them what they wanted to hear. Instead of considering the point, they lashed out, telling Quick he had no right to write or say such things.
He had the right. Even the obligation as a journalist. As a beat write, Quick creates a narrative with his columns. They aren't isolated snapshots of time. He gives us a sense of how things are moving, shaping and developing. It's a peek into the world the Blazers let him see everyday.
Part of the narrative he created was that Oden would be AWESOME. Quick reported more than a few times that that would be the case. He's still reporting that. He probably mentioned that he thought Oden wasn't quite playing as well as he'd expected (and thus relayed to us) because he felt obliged to update us on the narrative he brings us. But, that hardly seemed like the point of the article that drew the ire of so many.
Quick lamented publicly that Oden had a lot of pressure on him, that he was part of it. Anyone that's read Quick knows he loves this team and cares for them tremendously as people and players. That article read as an apology to Greg, and a map for fans to show support and a possible indictment on the fans and media for putting so much pressure on Greg. It read of an impending tragedy: Greg might lose his personality under the weight of our combined gazes. The tone Quick struck was clearly a message to us, not to Greg.
Well, maybe he was subtextually saying sorry for calling Greg underwhelming. But that seems a stretch. Quick had no need to apologize.
Quick's care for the team, and diligence in reporting on the team should be recognized and appreciated. He clearly established a relationship that is something beyond what the casual reader understands.
I've been following Quick since he arrived at the Oregonian. He's dedicated, intelligent, and committed to writing solid narratives of the team. He KNOWS BASKETBALL, and what he ought and ought not to say. He's established that many times over. It's time we respect him for the things he gives us: his insight, expertise and access.
Quick, you took a beating on this one. Totally underserved. I'm embarrassed to be categorized with the fans that bashed you so harshly. (Also, I've been drunk for like 8 years, so if I wrote something to bash you, I'm so sorry, but I don't think I did, and if I did, I didn't mean it that way)
As an aside: the comments on Olive never seem well thought out. I never bother posting over there because it seems like the riff raff get to it and dominate it. One liners are lame.
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I agree, people are particularly senstive right now
I don’t think most people read the entire article, throughout which quick calls into question the media attention as well as having both nate and Roy agree with his take.
by ppilot on Oct 24, 2008 9:08 AM PDT 0 recs
OK
To start with, your phrase (“If you misread it, you’d do well to seek interpretive assistance at a community college prior to posting comments again.”) is both unhelpful and condescending and undermines what is otherwise a well written piece by creating a negative tone. Inherent is the implication that should the reader disagree with you, they are either illiterate or stupid. As a law student with a degree in political science I can assure you that my reading comprehension/intellegence levels are just fine, and yet, I disagree with you.
Secondly, people took issue with Quick’s usage of the word “underwhelming” because objectively Oden has done very well on a per minute/Reina Value/Winscore/PER/ etc. basis, especially having sat out a year due to injury. The difficulty is that expectations are subjective and so if Quick expected Oden to drop 50 is first few games and hit 40% of his threes, Oden’s performance would indeed “underwhelm” Quick.
The fanbase took issue with Quick’s assessment not because they don’t want to hear anything negative about Oden, but rather because they disagreed with Quick’s assertion that Oden was underwhelming and felt that Quick’s usage of the phrase was uncalled for, especially to Oden’s face.
Perhaps you might want to re-read your post and edit it a bit. I am sure that the negative tone was unintentional/melodramatic/intended for humor. However, it ends up coming off as mildly offensive and insulting.
I appreciate your opinion and your effort in posting your thoughts and look forward to your reply.
Blazer's fan since '84, Currently exiled in San Antonio
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
by HurraKane212 on Oct 24, 2008 9:16 AM PDT 1 recs
Disagreement is fine
As long as it’s merited by argument, which I’m sure you appreciate as a law student.
I did mean the phrase to be mildly offensive. I’m not the nicest person. The act of cursory reading is extremely offensive. I’m not accusing any one in particular, but if a person is mad simply because an author said something he didn’t favor, that’s not exactly a reason to dismiss an article.
Taking issue with the characterization of Oden’s play is fine, and even encouraged here, I think. However, Quick clearly established a narrative over the last few months contrary to what he saw in preseason. You may conjure up relative reflections of what it means to be underwhelming all you want, but the astute reader would know that Quick is only talking about his expectations. I don’t recall Quick saying, “HurraKane212 was underwhelmed.” He said he was. With that in mind, you can justly call his expectations into question, but the use of the word "underwhelmed’ was merited by HIS expectation. It was HIS article after all. If you superimpose your understanding of what it means to be underwhelmed, you deny the author his point of view, and deny the possibility of you understanding his point.
You may argue with his expectations of course, but the use of the word underwhelmed derived from a premise. As such it became a stipulated definition. One you have an obligation to understand. The point of the article didn’t hinge on what the definition of the word underwhelmed meant in any case. It was a tool to tell the story.
His expectations were a barometer for the pressure Oden’s under. His expectations were relayed as fact, not as something you ought to believe or not. He laid them out as a piece of wood on a beach. It’s there. Whether or not you feel this way is totally irrelevant to the story. Many people do. That’s where the pressure comes from.
Argue about those expectations all you want, but that had VERY LITTLE to do with his story.
Seizing on the definition of the word makes it impossible to see the point of the article.
Where did you study PS?
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 24, 2008 9:37 AM PDT
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Um, I say "you" a lot
but I don’t mean you. It’s generic. Write ‘a person’ or ‘one’ always seemed really cheesy.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 24, 2008 9:42 AM PDT
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Right on all of this stuff.
Quicks article had nothing to do with Oden being underwhelming, and rather it had everything to do with Quick apologizing for our, as the fans, media, etc…, out of control expectations of him.
I agree with Hobobob, that it would be extremely difficult not to understand this had you read the entire article.
Also, HurraKane, where do you go to school? O-law 2011 here.
by everett on
Oct 24, 2008 11:55 AM PDT
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Wrong! And so was Jason Quick!
I read the entire article. And while no lawyer, I can play one on BE.
Jason Quick was doing his best Canzano. Yes, I said it. We don’t need Oregonian hatchet jobs perpetrated against members of this Blazers team. The guys, none of them, deserve it! I remember the comments about Miles’ marriage in that paper. The Oregonian pitied the fool marry Darius Miles. Whether that is even accurate is beside the point. If you say anything, congratulate the man and hope for the best. JQ Canzano did a tank job on Oden. No ifs, ands or ho-buts.
And the funny thing was the article wasn’t even about Oden. It was about Jason Quick’s FEELINGS. How he was scared of Oden, him being so big. What JQ did say about Oden assumes so much about Greg’s interior life that it is ludicrous. He was too scared to ask the next question, so he made up some answers. If I was The Oregonian’s sports editor, and I am a professional editor, JQ’s article hits the round file — I would never publish destructive, stream of consciousness tripe like that.
The only positive I took away from the piece when was Roy came out of the locker room and tried to help Mr. Quick catch a clue or grow a conscience. It is ironic that in a piece so about interior life that Mr. Quick (ironic, yes?) displays so little interior access to himself.
Let’s all hope that this article was an aberration not representative of Jason Quick’s efforts to come.
There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.
by LaoTzu on
Oct 24, 2008 1:45 PM PDT
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I'm sorry
.. but this is so much BS it’s unbelievable. I have been a VERY outspoken critic of Canzano for years. Have traded multiple emails back and forth with him until I simply gave up reading his tripe. To try to categorize this Quick piece in with the ego driven drivel Canzano has written is complete bunk. Some of you people seriously need to get to just get a grip. Oden WAS underwhelming in his first few games. PERIOD. Don’t try to make excuses for the big guy. The fact of the matter is that Quick had received, and passed on GLOWING reviews of Greg in workouts from nearly everyone he spoke with. He simply came out and said what he had seen so far was not what he had been expecting based on those reports. If you could actually read you would have understood that. You also would have found that Roy came out and AGREED with Quick’s assessment. Anybody that has completed the fifth grade should have been able to decipher that much. I read in an unrelated article that there were actually dimwits PROTESTING against Quick in front of the Oregonian offices! Unbelievable…
by R11 on
Oct 24, 2008 4:27 PM PDT
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You might try hanging up the CAPS key
Not to mention words & phrases like BS, BUNK, JUST GET A GRIP, ANYBODY THAT HAS COMPLETED THE FIFTH GRADE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DECIPHER THAT MUCH, DIMWITS, UNBELIEVABLE, etc. Shouting at and insulting those you disagree with only makes you look bad.
If you look around this site, you’ll notice most of the posters manage to make their points without resorting to that kind of stuff. Makes coming here kind of pleasant.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on
Oct 24, 2008 5:06 PM PDT
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all's fair in love and war (and debate),
including gimmicks.
by premthegrem on
Oct 25, 2008 2:39 AM PDT
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Thank you, hurryup09
Nice handle.
Indeed. Rather than slew scree and pound the caps lock, R11 might want to actually respond to the few points I made. Admittedly, my analysis was not deep. But there was so little content in the hopeless JQ article, there really wasn’t much of substance to comment on.
And that really is the point. Why would I need JQ to tell me the obvious and be a bully about it.
“I upset Oden,” writes JQ. “I am cooler than a 19-year-old! I am the man and GO is not. Thhhphhhthhh!”
I mean, what the hell is there to comment on?
There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.
by LaoTzu on
Oct 25, 2008 4:15 AM PDT
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I think we're seeing something you don't
Maybe it’s not there, and we’re reifying it. The subtext of the article pointed out that he was guilty of doing exactly what you’re saying he did. The point wasn’t to apologize but to bring into public conciousness and make visible to us the degree of pressure Greg’s feeling.
That may have been obvious, but you’re reaction to Quick’s article suggests you didn’t notice it before. Your reaction is virtuous, of course. We all feel the need to protect people we like.
But, you’re basically slamming a guy who’s saying the same thing.
Quick’s job is to write about the Blazers. The pressure that Oden is under is a story he’s obliged to cover. Using the term underwhelmed was only a device to tease out and make more obvious the pressure.
I think everyone’s on Greg’s side, including Quick.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 25, 2008 8:39 AM PDT
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what article did you read???
a terrific article from jason as usual. very strange interpretation..
by blazersunited on
Oct 27, 2008 5:45 PM PDT
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I admire and fear (I think there's a Chinese word that covers both terms) your certainty
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 25, 2008 8:34 AM PDT
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I think that's a good point about Quick's expectations.
He mention that on one of those podcasts. That really every time he asked the players on the team about Greg, they said things like “His a monster. " "He’s a man-child.” etc. What are they gonna say though? So Quick took all that and assumed Greg was gonna be off the charts better than anyone ever expected, and then when he didn’t go for 20/15 and 5 blocks (or whatever he was expecting) he was underwhelmed.
by MattyDread on
Oct 24, 2008 9:56 AM PDT
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exactly
Greg is a monster, but that doesn’t translate to skill. Additionally, KP and others said a few things too.
We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.
by ratbastird on
Oct 24, 2008 1:08 PM PDT
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Oden by himself
has done fine.
Oden with the expectations that the team has set with words such as “he’s done things I’ve never seen before” create an expectation that is higher. This isn’t Oden’s fault, but it does leave one underwhelmed when teh expectations were already high.
Oden is doing awesome. Raised expectations caused that awesome to be underwhelmed.
We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.
by ratbastird on
Oct 24, 2008 1:07 PM PDT
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I will assert again that I am
quite whelmed — think development is coming along nicely….and wasn’t he playing better against LAClips than prior games…I remember a double double..
Expectations increased with extended anticipation after 1st season missed…this kid would be a red shirt sophomore now, am I right?
by LetsBlaze on
Oct 24, 2008 4:52 PM PDT
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I'm not sure what a red shirt sophomore is, but one thing I know is that
you get a big ’ol plus 1 for the use of “whelmed.”
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 25, 2008 8:41 AM PDT
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If he had stayed in college and susatined that same injury
so early in year 2, he’d of sat out the year, maintained his NCAA eligibility (red shirt) and come back as a “red shirt sophpomore” meaning he was there for three years but only using his 2nd year of NCAA eligibility
by LetsBlaze on
Oct 25, 2008 10:46 AM PDT
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ha
a drunk using a bunch of 15cent words. I’m with you, drunk! Also, didn’t most of the vitriol come through over at the OLive site? We’re all so sophisticated here; you’re preaching to the choir!
Oden will DUNK on bynum’s FACE tuesday and this will all be water under the bridge.
by 50backflips on Oct 24, 2008 9:52 AM PDT 0 recs
Yep, it was the Olive site. Just thought I'd write about it, you know, for fun
man I’m lame
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 24, 2008 10:20 AM PDT
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quick’s article was fantastic. he shouldn’t need to say a single word in his defense.
honor terry porter
by Ben. on Oct 24, 2008 9:55 AM PDT 2 recs
THANK YOU!
Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii
by Outlaw is Rejector on
Oct 24, 2008 11:48 PM PDT
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Agreed, and he shouldn't do so, but others ought to defend him as he deserves defense.
The onslought against him was unwarranted. Sometimes, it’s ok to ignore, and sometimes a person should say something. I don’t mean to drag this out. I just couldn’t stand by and watch him be villified like that.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 25, 2008 8:46 AM PDT
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I'm not surprised you liked it Ben
You seem to be the type of writer who likes to have ad hoc editorials within an article.
BINGO, BANGO, BONGO
by blzrfan on
Oct 25, 2008 1:40 PM PDT
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It's also the responsibility
of any communicator – whether in print or in person – to choose how to use his/her particular medium in order to get across the idea he/she is trying to communicate.
Let’s assume that this particular article was mis-interpreted by the majority of readers (and I’m not saying that’s true, but just for the point of argumentation) – tens of thousands of people – then perhaps any ‘fault’ to be placed lies in the one who chose the words, not the ones who read them.
This has nothing to do with Jason Quick’s commitment to his craft, or his knowledge of basketball or of people. He perhaps simply chose the wrong words to communicate his idea, so a different idea (an un-intended one) was interpreted by the readers.
There’s a 6 stage communication process that we all use thousands of times a day – taking an idea in our minds and trying to communicate so that the recipient(s) of the communication get the same idea. Successful communication has happened when the two ideas are the same. That doesn’t seem to have happened here. But I’m not comfortable laying the entire blame on the audience, any more than I am with laying it all on Jason.
by Storyteller on Oct 24, 2008 10:03 AM PDT 0 recs
Fair enough. Although this seems like a case
where once the reader (I’m referencing the comments over at Olive mostly) reacted in a way that showed an unfair interpretation. I’m 100% with you on the obligations both parties show. Thanks for the post.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 24, 2008 10:23 AM PDT
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I’m reminded of many books that are standard reading in any literature class. After reading some of them I thought, “Wow, I really didn’t care for that book.”
The answer usually was, “Well you just didn’t understand the author.”
Even worse was when I actually enjoyed the book and then was told it was never the author’s intent for me to enjoy it.
superfluous
by lukeyhere on
Oct 24, 2008 10:43 AM PDT
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Hans-Georg Gadamer ...
… who was a close associate of Martin Heidegger, wrote in his book, Truth and Method, that language takes on a life of its own, independent of either the author/speaker or reader/listener. This argument would simultaneously vindicate and condemn Quick and those who disagreed with him, even those who agreed with him. Either that or make any assessment or assertion of value toward that article entirely beside the point.
Greg Oden rocks.
quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
by dvcastle on
Oct 25, 2008 10:28 PM PDT
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I was agreeing with you
until you used Fox News as your example of sloppy journalism. Why pick on them, when the vast majority of print and TV journalists have been blatantly lobbying for Obama since well before the Democrat convention? Now I have to question everything else you wrote.
I do agree with Ben. Quick owes no one an apology. Maybe if he had written that Greg was whining…
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on Oct 24, 2008 10:04 AM PDT 0 recs
you might want to check out
OutFoxed if you want to learn more about why Fox news is the worst of the worst. I cant even watch the news anymore as it is so poor in quality these days. I am all Democracy Now! these days.
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
by jonestr on
Oct 24, 2008 10:09 AM PDT
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I don't mean to say that Fox news is the worst.
I’m not in a position to judge that, as I can’t fact check and all. But, I do know Fox News was the first to specifcally cater to the interests of a certain type of ideology. They were the first to TARGET an audience. It’s genius as far as a business is concerned, but it’s not necessarily good journalism.
The bias of other news agencies prior to Fox is fairly argued. But, in these cases, what could be seen were the biases of individual reporters (who usually tried to hide them, for it used to be shamefule to be biased). It wasn’t a concerted effort by an organization as a whole to report favorably with a particular point of view.
I look at Fox News as an instance of shrew business acumen. Whatever else it is, it makes boat loads of money. Now, that, more than anything else, raises questions about its credence. Good news organizations don’t make much money.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 24, 2008 10:28 AM PDT
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Mass media has ALWAYS been an adjunct of the ruling class...
……………………….. there was NEVER a golden glory days of “good, honest journalism.” The press (and later broadcasting) has ALWAYS been cooked in favor of the big money movers and shakers…
Fox is just the most blatant mouthpiece of the big bourgeoisie and their political lackies.
"It's not a joke -- it's not a game." — B-Rex
by timbo on
Oct 25, 2008 12:24 AM PDT
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I'm sure that's true
but as I live in this era, I’ll blend in with old people (I’m only 30) from every generation and say “those were the good old days.”
That said, the media in America (particularly TV) did have a golden age. Integrity used to mean something, the goal used to be something akin to truth (the version of truth’s suspect, of course). But, at least they seemed to have tried.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 25, 2008 8:44 AM PDT
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Media
The press almost universally portrayed Ronald Reagan as a vile idiot during his administration. Those who took offense at the media believed the press was absurdly biased, that the press was only interested in an argument that vilified their politics, faith and traditions. Perhaps some people who now take offense to Fox News think the populace should only be allowed to genuflect to their particular indoctrination.
I am convinced that there is a social engineering component to most news organizations; one offender is Fred Newhouse owner of the Oregonian.
quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
by dvcastle on
Oct 25, 2008 10:49 PM PDT
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Actually, the man had Alzheimer's.................... information which wasn't reported until AFTER he left office...
…………………………………… even though it was pretty clear to me at least, and to millions of others, that he had a mental disorder DURING his Presidency…
“My fellow Americans, I’m pleased to tell you today that I’ve signed legislation which will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.”
What a JOKER, the press agreed. Ha ha, they said.
Dr. Strangelove lived.
Reagan got a free pass from a press that went smoochie-smoochie. It was America’s most dangerous period — perhaps to be exceeded if the unstable McCainiac is elected.
t
"It's not a joke -- it's not a game." — B-Rex
by timbo on
Oct 25, 2008 11:50 PM PDT
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Reagan was brilliant -- read his speeches.
He wrote them himself. The man had Alzheimer’s while in office to the same extent that you are voting for John McCain. Obama and Biden have made so many verbal gaffes that they make Dan Quayle sound like Abraham Lincoln, yet the Leftmedia ignores all such examples.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on
Oct 27, 2008 11:26 AM PDT
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Wrote them himself? Really?
I know he had input on his speeches -Like the tear down this wall comment…but wrote them?
To his credit, he could defend his positions well – not that I agreed with them..and he had the good sense to tag W. as an underachiever (read his diary entry)….
And in hindsight he looks like an intellectual next to W. — but he had some real problems towards the end holding it together. His Iran-Contra excuse was that he forgot..and no one had much trouble believing it.
by LetsBlaze on
Oct 27, 2008 12:21 PM PDT
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You might be right.
I automatically position myself opposite of anything timbo says politically. Reagan may well have been in the early stages of Alzheimer’s toward the end of his second term in office, I really don’t know. It hardly matters, given his accomplishments and performance right up to the time he left the White House.
Bush is far from stupid. He pounded the Dems and liberals on every issue until Iraq. The war, regardless of how history will ultimately view it, was Bush’s personal Waterloo, but otherwise he has often shown excellent political instincts. His enemies hammer him because he’s not glib, a “skill” that is admired nowadays more highly than wimpy, old-school traits like self-sacrifice, courage, and commitment.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on
Oct 27, 2008 1:15 PM PDT
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I don't recall any achievements
I just recall 3+ trillion in debt while trashing our social programs and creating our homeless population, selling off national forests to logging and mining interests, fleeing from the mid east after the Beirut bombing, me having to register for the draft, I could go on…if you were already wealthy it was great — if you were on your way up — not so great…I voted for him the first time, but that was my last time on that side..
by LetsBlaze on
Oct 27, 2008 1:41 PM PDT
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Another poster referenced the documentary "Outfoxed"
If you haven’t checked it out, you really should. What’s disturbing about Fox News isn’t just the blatant right-wing slant. (One could at least argue—as you have—that we’ve had the mirror image of that before.) It’s the close connection with the current administration that is so concerning. The whole thing smacks uncomfortably of a state-run media outlet.
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on
Oct 26, 2008 10:10 AM PDT
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Blazers?
Could anyone recommend a good blog that discusses the Blazers?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on
Oct 26, 2008 4:20 PM PDT
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There's plenty of Blazer talk in Outfoxed
You just have to pay attention
"We don't back down to nobody." --Joel Przybilla
by hurryup09 on
Oct 26, 2008 5:10 PM PDT
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I look forward to you writing the same comment
about the Leftmedia when Obama takes office and Dems control the House and Senate.
I don’t watch TV news. Whatever its slant, TV news is the retarded stepchild compared to magazine articles. I’ve seen maybe a minute of Fox News while I was channel-surfing, and the little I saw was a straight news report, just the facts. I understand they have right-wing commentary, but that’s different from the reporting of events. In any case, even if Fox News is as biased as some of you say, complaining about them when almost every other news and entertainment media outlet is slanted to the left politically is like the spoiled child crying because he received a box of chocolates and one of them was vanilla.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on
Oct 27, 2008 11:11 AM PDT
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Part of the problem now is that the right pushed itself so far
to the right, not letting facts get in the way of their opinions, that the truth became the enemy — and the reporting of the facts became left wing bias -
Early on in Bush adm I usta get so much grief for being a left-wing democratic wingnut for thinking W was a damn fool. Truth is, I have no party affiliationss and can usually see both (or all) sides of any reasonable argument – now, most everyone realizes that he is a damn fool (or at least 75% of those polled realize it), so one doesn’t have to be a partisan democrat to point out the obvious. Reagan called him a fool and I’m pretty sure he was not a left-wing nut job.
Its the problem with an either/or, 2 choice only political system – as soon as you disagree with me I’ll just lable you as being an “other” an invalidate you
by LetsBlaze on
Oct 27, 2008 12:28 PM PDT
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I'm enjoying this political thread
but I just realized this is not a junk drawer, so I’ll end by saying I agree with your last sentence.
"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics
by MiledAnimal on
Oct 27, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
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Quick's Article was Fine
But I don’t think it is Quick’s place to tell a player that he is underwhelming. This smacks of sensationalism, Quick saying something to create an article. A journalist should report what is happening and not create a story.
by Fund A Mental on Oct 24, 2008 10:04 AM PDT 0 recs
Who's to judge that?
I would think that if it wasn’t Quick’s place to say so, then who’s saying who’s place it is to say so? Are you qualified to say so? Maybe you are. I don’t know.
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by hobobob on
Oct 24, 2008 10:30 AM PDT
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Coaches, management other players maybe...they can "judge" a bit..
But a writer? Nope sorry…It wasn’t even an “I find your playing…” it was a “your playing is…” it was judgemental, it was rude, it was inappropriate.
This guy has no idea how hard it is out on the floor, does he? Did I miss something, or was this fella ever IN the game or just an obsessed spectator with a pen? The great ones eventually make it look easy — eventually. But it isn’t.
It’s a completely different thing to dominate in practice, or look good alone on the floor, but in a situation where other monsters are trying to rip your head off and make you look bad — different world. And he’s just testing the waters for the first time….all the competition is brand new to him..and he would be what, a red shirt sophomore right now?
Players are just people, kids are kids..take it easy on him, ay? As long as his effort is 100%, the results just are to be what they are. He is a person, not a story. And Jason should be thankful that Greg is even around, so as to give the talking heads and writers something to do.
It seems to me that Greg’s expectations for himself are very high..Comments like that if taken too seriously can erode confidence or lead to “over-trying”, where you start thinking about what others are thinking rather than just doing what you do…
Reporters job is not necessarily to pass judment in the face of the one he’s interviewing…how about asking Greg what Greg thought about his own play? We would have probably heard him say that he wants to contribute more — which is all we can ask for.
There – my 2.5 cents
by LetsBlaze on
Oct 24, 2008 5:17 PM PDT
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Those were exactly my thoughts-
Quick created the mess by provoking a response from Greg. He went from telling the news to being the news.
That being said, I think that Quick’s actual article was intelligently written, and extrapolated well from the reaction to his comment to the reasons behind the reaction (pressure, personality changes, his teammates take). If Quick had simply written the article without telling Greg, unsolicited, that he had been underwhelmed by his game, I think he would have been lauded for his insight.
Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.
Awesome Graphic was provided by CIC, because he felt like he should be hazed.
by Clevelander among roses on
Oct 24, 2008 6:49 PM PDT
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Exactly.
JQ’s mistake was inserting himself into the story. He is the beat writer, not Canzano. In hindsight the article would be Pulitzer if Roy’s comments could have been illicited without confronting Greg with his (JQ’s) feelings.
As it stands JQ may have compromised his access to Greg. Maybe not, but wouldn’t suprise me.
"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum
by G_dubs on
Oct 25, 2008 12:50 AM PDT
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Exactly x2!
There once was a Sea’ Cap’n Nate
Whom with Blazers did negotiate.
The pool, t’was so deep!
"That KP don’t sleep."
Gold medals and rings were his fate.
by LaoTzu on
Oct 25, 2008 4:20 AM PDT
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you just don't get it do you
the whole reason that quick is able to give us such incredible insight into this team is because of the rapport that he has with the players. having rapport with someone means that you are communicating both ways, when you have a relationship with someone and obviously someone you care about as a person, you speak your mind.
sensationalism. good god. he was passing judgment he was giving his opinion to someone he respects. big difference.
by blazersunited on
Oct 27, 2008 5:55 PM PDT
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I think that if you listened to the last eighth of the quick chat podcast you might re-think that stance. That’s just me though.
Quick for 6th man of the year! Ha ha ha.
by 50backflips on
Oct 24, 2008 11:09 AM PDT
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I disagree with all of you folks.
Let me preface this by saying, while the article certainly raised my eyebrows, JQuick is a journalist and was doing his job (and pretty well considering how much this article has been passed around).
However, I think the reason people took offense to this particular article was their emotional “attachment” to Greg. Quick asked Greg some tough questions (the infamous “underwhelming” comment in particular). Greg’s response showed a side of the big man that Blazer fans hadn’t really seen before.
So many people’s hopes are riding on this 20 year old kid. When something (in this case, a Quick interview) comes out that challenges him, many people’s reaction was to panic and blame the interviewer. Fans felt that, instead of reporting ON the team, Quick was reporting AGAINST the team, searching for a controversial article that will get him readers. The consensus was that, since GO was upset with Quick, all Blazer fans need to be upset with Quick.
But this is silly. Not only was this article great and insightful, I think it showed promise for GO and the Blazers. When Oden says
“It’s understandable,” Oden said after I was done. “And I know it’s out there. That’s the big thing with me. That’s why I’m out here working and trying to get better. Trying to understand this, and doing what I need to do so people don’t think that way.”
Think which way?, I asked.
“Underwhelmed,” he said slowly with more than a hint of disgust.
it only shows Greg’s motivation and drive. The fact that Greg’s response to Quick’s term “underwhelming” was one of disgust and outrage is a relief. If GO didn’t get fired up by that kind of talk, fans should be worried. JQ is paid to ask the tough questions. We should be happy with Oden’s tough answer.
Word.
by joelor on Oct 24, 2008 10:07 AM PDT 0 recs
Thanks for (dis)agreeing? I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're saying the same thing.
Maybe a little more clearly than I did.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
by hobobob on
Oct 24, 2008 10:32 AM PDT
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Haha
yeah well I wrote that at the top and the comment seemed to change itself as I wrote it. I did disagree with you on my one point though: that the reason Blazer fans got so worked up was because they are worried about Greg and almost feel like “defending” him. The truth is, this article should make us realize we don’t have to defend him, that he is tough enough and good enough to do it himself.
Word.
by joelor on
Oct 24, 2008 10:49 AM PDT
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You did. I thought the same thing, but didn't really feel like defending them
I’m not fair. That’s an excellent point, of course. I meant to say something about it but forgot. Why am I always so drunk?!?!?!
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich


