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Should the Blazers complain to the refs more often?

I have often seen fans euphoric that Portland is a team that doesn't often complain to refs, and also fans who hate players that constantly talk to the refs.  I understand the concept; a lot of people were raised to respect others, and the complaining seen on a typical NBA court doesn't look respectful.  People here are proud of their "good boy" Portland Trailblazers, because not complaining usually is equated to showing character.  I am wondering, however, if not complaining hurts the Trailblazers competitively.

Complaining to the refs can be a way to focus them on what you want them to see.  If you are being fouled in the same way on every other offensive possession, you want to let the ref know so that he can look out for it.  Even if you aren't being fouled in the same way, it can't hurt to have the refs attention when you have the ball; most fouls get called on the defensive player.

Fouls are also a fairly subjective thing.  Refs make decisions based on their impression of what the position was, who initiated contact, and to what degree the contact influenced the play.  There are a lot of judgements in those calls, and players would be hurting their team if they didn't do the best they could to get the refs to make judgements in their favor.

The Blazers complain to refs less often than any other basketball team I have ever seen.  The Blazers also get consistently worked over by the refs.  Those two things are probably related.

Complaining works; that's why it's such a popular option, not only among NBA players, but among people in general.  There's a reason why "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" is a more popular saying than "the squeaky wheel gets replaced and thrown in the junk yard where it becomes a hatching place for millions of mosquitos every time it rains".

 

Warning:  The following poll will annoy Douglast, as it has more than 5 options, none of which will completely describe what he is thinking.  Apologies in advance.

Poll
How do you feel about complaining to refs?
It has no place in basketball
8 votes
Only when the refs are clearly wrong, and if done respectfully
33 votes
Only if the player does it during stoppages in play
6 votes
Just don't get a technical
8 votes
It's part of the game
7 votes
Complaining to the refs can help a team win
10 votes
None of the options adequately sum up my feelings about complaining.
4 votes

76 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 23 comments

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Whining is good

Especially when you are are not geting back on defense.

by southern oregon on Oct 17, 2008 9:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Another pollster who didn't read Douglast's fanpost!

Shame shame shame. You must go to poll-making school before posting polls on BE.

No. Seriously. This is a great question. Frankly I think grievances against the refs should be taken up only by the coaches. I don’t like seeing players complain to the refs. I want our players to keep their minds on the game. Maybe the Blazers should designate one coach who does all the complaining.

And the winner is … Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Remember him—the great Democratic president who saved capitalism from the capitalists by reining in their exorbitant greed? Forget the Reagan Revolution heralding a new era of small government, which turned out to be nothing more than a fig leaf for legalized corporate crime. The hero of the hour is FDR, as the essential wisdom of his New Deal is now embraced by most Republicans as well as Democrats.

by fisheyes on Oct 17, 2008 9:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Players should go to their coaches with their (hopefully legitimate) complaints and the coaches talk to the refs.

"It was halfway through the fourth quarter of an exhibition game, a 30 point blowout, and I absolutely did not want it to end. Time: move slower so this moment stretches.

Dunk Parade.

Forever."

-Ben

"...our second unit is probably going to be a little better than your second unit…and by "probably going to be a little better than" I mean "is going to crush like a dump truck running over an empty beer can""

"YOU MOVE NOW! GREG DUNK BIG!"

-Dave

by Magnum on Oct 17, 2008 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good question

I don’t think the we need the players complaining to the refs (at least not until they are more established stars) I think it’s the job of the coach to bring no calls or wrong calls to the attention of the refs. However, once Roy, Oden and maybe LMA and Rudy completely reach stardom then they can respectfully address no calls.

by Gelvalst on Oct 17, 2008 10:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

wow

im’ getting grilled here. keep it coming, ive got thick skin.

a couple of comments
1) the suggestion of limiting to polls to 5 was meant more as a guideline, not a hard and fast. as in, “could my poll be tweaked to reduce the number of options?” essentially a “final check”. If the poll indded needs more answers, no problem.
2) You left the catchall at the bottom, which is good (I meant to put that in my guidelines, but forgot.)
3) I voted. ;-)

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Oct 17, 2008 10:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Glad you're around

I was including you for humor purposes, glad you seem to be taking it in the spirit intended.

Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.

by Clevelander among roses on Oct 17, 2008 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep, no worries.

I added the catchall to my post.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Oct 17, 2008 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you da Man, Douglast

Keep up the good work!

And the winner is … Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Remember him—the great Democratic president who saved capitalism from the capitalists by reining in their exorbitant greed? Forget the Reagan Revolution heralding a new era of small government, which turned out to be nothing more than a fig leaf for legalized corporate crime. The hero of the hour is FDR, as the essential wisdom of his New Deal is now embraced by most Republicans as well as Democrats.

by fisheyes on Oct 17, 2008 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Communicating with the refs is part of leadership on the court

I think that the refs respect players who can communicate their complaint (as opposed to complaining). Smart players complain in very non-intrusive ways and only when the ball is out of play. They use it as a way to develop a relationship with the refs – the same refs they will see over and over again.

I think that Rudy will add some of this eventually – I remember a particularly great moment during the olympic semi-finals where he got called for a reach in that he argued and almost instantly got a turnover called.

by idoltime on Oct 17, 2008 10:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Right

there’s a big difference between pointing out something that keeps happening and is not called vs. griping each time you are called for something. I would think the refs would have more respect for a player who keeps his mouth shut except for obviously bad calls – at least I do.

It's time to retire Terry Porter's jersey. Please!

by jorga on Oct 17, 2008 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe Roy is in the process of earning respect from the refs

Because he generally keeps his mouth shut. Way to go Brandon!

And the winner is … Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Remember him—the great Democratic president who saved capitalism from the capitalists by reining in their exorbitant greed? Forget the Reagan Revolution heralding a new era of small government, which turned out to be nothing more than a fig leaf for legalized corporate crime. The hero of the hour is FDR, as the essential wisdom of his New Deal is now embraced by most Republicans as well as Democrats.

by fisheyes on Oct 17, 2008 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good for Brandon. Another reason to like.

by CanadianBlazerfan on Oct 18, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

it’s like the boy who cried wolf. If you gripe after every single call or non-call, the refs are naturally going to gravitate towards “oh, that guys just whines about everything” and not put much credence into your constant complaint. this has to have a subconcious effect on how they call the game.

on the other hand, if you gripe only on the most offensive of missed calls, the refs are more likely to think “wow, I might of missed that one”.

Rule #1 of nitpicking is to get it right.

by douglast on Oct 17, 2008 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This raises questions about the effectiveness of a Sheed-like pouty-face

Might be a good topic for another poll: How effective is the “Why are you persecuting me?” pouty-face.

And another poll: Which NBA player has the most persuasive pouty-face expression when a foul goes the wrong way or doesn’t get called?

Who are the leading candidates for the Best Pouty Face Award? Any suggestions? I threw out Sheed because that dude’s pouty face is legendary.

And the winner is … Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Remember him—the great Democratic president who saved capitalism from the capitalists by reining in their exorbitant greed? Forget the Reagan Revolution heralding a new era of small government, which turned out to be nothing more than a fig leaf for legalized corporate crime. The hero of the hour is FDR, as the essential wisdom of his New Deal is now embraced by most Republicans as well as Democrats.

by fisheyes on Oct 17, 2008 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of bad calls

How many times will Oden get charged with an offensive foul for backing down his man that ends with a flop? It’s bound to happen, we can’t guard you so we may as well just fall down and hope for the whistle.

by NWfan on Oct 18, 2008 12:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Expect the Shaq treatment

Shaq gets flopped on more than anyone in the league. I expect Oden to join that club. There is no escape, other than to earn the fouls you get.

Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.

by Clevelander among roses on Oct 18, 2008 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope when they do that...

He continues his move anyway, dunks and “accidentally” lands on them

by inroywetrust on Oct 18, 2008 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It will happen frequently

In the Utah preseason game this week, Oden got called for an offensive foul away from the ball when he backed over a player at the top of the key.

by Avoozl on Oct 18, 2008 2:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

Shut up and play the game.

If you say "basically" at the beginning of a sentence, you probably also put ketchup on everything you eat.

by CosmoPlavix on Oct 18, 2008 7:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i voted it has no place in basketball....

but I’m more of a dictator loving kinda guy. so, read my comment at your own peril…

Players arguing against a referee’s call is alot like arguing with a police officer about stoping at a stop sign for 3 or 2 seconds.

They don’t care!! They saw what they saw, and are going to write the ticket anyway.

IT’S UP TO YOUR LAWYER (coach) TO DISPUTE THE TICKET (call).

Let the boy’s drive as they drive, and let the rich lawyer clean up the mess. so just get out there and drive team.

The faith (and I'm a guy) perverts. :)

by faith on Oct 18, 2008 8:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Rudy graduated with honors at the New York Actors Studio but he doesn´t complain too much to refs.

He can look at them using his Marlon Brando Godfather face but instead of complaining he start to make use of how the refs are applying the rules. I´m curious about how he will do in the NBA.

Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16

by amlmart1 on Oct 20, 2008 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just kidding, Rudy complains a lot too ;-)

Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16

by amlmart1 on Oct 20, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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