Brandon has Batum's Back

by wwKPd on Oct 16, 2008 9:56 PM PDT Comment 51 comments

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2008/10/no_way_around_it_batum_being_c.html

This makes things very interesting. I do like the idea of keeping the second unit intact and Rudy and Sergio have some undeniable chemestry about them. Plus if the blazers braincorp thinks its the right move, and BRoy is behind the idea, then its gotta be worth a shot. I wonder how they are going to do the rotations out though, becuase i wouldn't think it would be a full five man switch. What it means is that once again, KP deserves a hell of a round of applause. And thank god SA didnt get him, that would have made the west soooo much harder.

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Key point

here is stealing him from San Antonio. Man that Pritchard guy is shrewd. I heard he beat Deep Blue in chess WHILE pulling off these moves on draft day.

by MavetheGreat on Oct 16, 2008 10:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This could go into the list of moves that seemed less than spectacular.

But ended up being great.

-Zach for Channing
-Batum for 3 million
-James Jones and Rudy for 3 million & TE

None of these moves were heralded as instantly great, but they have ended up being genius.

It would be interesting to know if Pritchard knew all along he would pick Batum. The pre-draft comments about Batum from Nate were negative… that he was not ready to play.

it’s interesting that Batum was mentioned as a top-5 pick and an option for the Blazers when Oden got hurt and we thought they would suck. I searched in the archives a while back and found mentions of Batum as a possible pick for us.

by Cablinasian on Oct 16, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I almost feel bad for phx fans

Getting to watch Rudy run the court with Amare, Nash and Barbosa would have been pretty entertaining. Their loss, our gain.

by wwKPd on Oct 16, 2008 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are used to their cheap owner

They already hit their remote controls against their heads when watching Luol Deng/Andre Iguodala (2004 #7 pick) and Rajon Rondo (2006 #21) play for other teams, who all could have been in Phoenix. Oh, and Rudy, since the 2007 #24 pick (originally from Cleveland, via Boston) was what they got for the Rondo pick. Now they have nothing but cash for it.

Odenied: If you're given lemmings—make lemming-ade (Bow4Meow)

by Norsktroll on Oct 17, 2008 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget Sergio.

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum

NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"

by rockingharder on Oct 17, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

speak for yourself

I didn’t know Batum, but i knew Rudy and I new Zach and I was screaming from excitement.

I suppose if we’d had some french readers/scouts, we might have known about Batum too. I admit that kid caught me completely by surprise, particularly after his summer league showing. That said, if the spurs AND KP are going for him, you know he’s going to be special. I just didn’t think it’d be so soon. Actually, i still have some reservations there.

We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.

by ratbastird on Oct 17, 2008 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This prolly should be a fanshot.

No biggie though.

It is awesome and entirely shocking to hear this… Man. Batum starting would be unbelievable.

by Cablinasian on Oct 16, 2008 10:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Ah my bad

Can’t say I post alot around here, a lurker some might call it. I am really excited about this though. With all the talk about the new players and talent that have come and grown with this team, I still think BRoy is the man. And whatever we can do to complement his game and make things easier for him, lets go for it. Running the pick and roll with aldridge with batum and blake lurking on the perimeter and then having Mr. Oden himself available for cleanup duty is going to be sweet to watch.
Also thought the language barrier problem was interesting. I wonder how intensively he is recieving english lessons.

by wwKPd on Oct 16, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure the Blazers are making sure he is learning English.

It helps that he already knows a good chunk of the language.

You should be excited. A post presence in Oden, a rangy PF with a feathery J and crazy athleticism, a knockdown shooter and outstanding passer in Rudy, and a consummate professional leading us in Roy. This team will go places.

by Cablinasian on Oct 16, 2008 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's not using a translator...

that seems to be good news. It also forces him to learn the new vocab instead of leaning on someone else.

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum

NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"

by rockingharder on Oct 17, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

a rangy PF with a feathery J and crazy athleticism

Not to mention a frickin’ 7"4" wingspan…sounds a bit (physically) like a French-light version of Durant.

by DonkeyShins on Oct 17, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Grand Unification Wingspan theory:

God ran short of wingspan after designing Aldridge, so he skimped with Bayless.

Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.

by Clevelander among roses on Oct 17, 2008 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh

now the quarks and strings stuff makes sense

by southern oregon on Oct 17, 2008 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Miracles performed on BE

Not only is the Wingspan Theory published, but it also ties together physics and intelligent design!

Travis Outlaw is an alien, but in a good way.

by Clevelander among roses on Oct 17, 2008 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobel Prize

Here we come.

by southern oregon on Oct 17, 2008 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

#25

I thought this bit was as interesting as anything else. For those of you down on Travis:

"On the second unit, Travis doesn’t feel the pressure as much,‘’ Roy said. "His shots come differently in the first unit. He may still get 10 shots, but they are 10 different shots than he is used to taking. He’s better in that second unit. When he misses in that first lineup, he’s like ‘My bad, I should have passed it to Brandon or LaMarcus’.’’

by Gargen on Oct 16, 2008 10:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

P.S. Since it wasn't clear

I meant that in a “See! He’s not Mr. Super-Duper-Selfishness” kind of way.

by Gargen on Oct 16, 2008 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm jiggy with this

"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum

by G_dubs on Oct 16, 2008 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roy is a very smart player.

Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii

by Outlaw is Rejector on Oct 17, 2008 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He may still get 10 shots, but they are 10 different shots than he is used to taking

Key word in that sentence…“may”

The shots Trav would get as a starter are from kick-outs where he would need to catch-and-shoot. Wev’e seen him do this from the corners on occasion, last year.

But…

The shots Trav likes to take are catch, shake, take a dribble, rise up and be like MJ or Kobe.

by two4larue on Oct 17, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nate wouldn't have Nic working with the black team

three consecutive practices if he weren’t satisfied that the kid is progressing well enough to do the job. To paraphrase Brandon, the other four starters will draw all the defensive pressure and handle all the offensive responsibilities, so all Nic has to do is not mess up. There’s still lots of time for him to pick-up what he needs to know and four more preseason games to practice what he learns. This could work. If it does, it will be a fascinating sub-plot to the story of what we all hope will be a legendary Blazer team.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Oct 16, 2008 10:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

He’s showing potential. As long as he keeps doing it, I think he stays. First preseason game will be telling and first two regular season games will be telling.

We haven't done anything yet... but don't blink.

by ratbastird on Oct 17, 2008 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nic's summer league performance

Nic seems so laid back. Maybe Bayless and his “personality feature” freaked him out?

Then he comes to camp, and “whew!”, Roy n team are not all like Bayless.

I just speculating here, and please don’t take this as Bayless hate, cuz it ain’t.

"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum

by G_dubs on Oct 16, 2008 10:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dude!

Why do you hate Bayless!!!!!!!!

:) j/k

Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii

by Outlaw is Rejector on Oct 17, 2008 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

WoW

This boggles my mind. I agree 100% with Brandon that Outlaw should be coming off the bench so he doesn’t mess up the offense for the starters. (Roy put it in a little more subtly). But I would expect opponents to sag off Batum to stop Roy driving to the basket or to double team GO quicker, and force Batum to take open shots. When did shooting become the strength of Batum’s game? Imagine the pressure on a 19-year-old rookie to make those shots, and it could change our offense flow just as much as Outlaw’s shoot-first style.

How does this new priority of keeping the 2nd unit intact fit with Nate’s repeated comments that he wants an 8 or 9 man rotation? This ain’t hockey. 5-for-5 substitutions don’t work on NBA playoff teams. As unfortunate as it is, Marty’s injury had temporarily solved one of Nate’s biggest problems this year – how to get Rudy minutes. So now we move a 19-year-old kid without a minute of NBA experience into the starting lineup with a 20-year-old kid without a minute of NBA experience. Do the other NBA playoff teams have the “experience thing” all wrong?

If this is successful (and I hope it is), the Coach of the Year contest should be over, not to mention the Executive of the Year contest. But if the Blazers start 0-5, and Batum gobbles up 15-20 minutes that could have gone to an experienced pro that has hit open shots under Gold Medal pressure… there are going to be some ugly post-game news conferences.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 17, 2008 12:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Rudy starting vs. Batum starting is a game breaker

especially if it’s only 20 total minutes. And, if he is obviously getting overwhelmed, I doubt that Nate leaves him in there. In fact, I think one assistant coach (at least) will be keeping track of just that.

"It was halfway through the fourth quarter of an exhibition game, a 30 point blowout, and I absolutely did not want it to end. Time: move slower so this moment stretches.

Dunk Parade.

Forever."

-Ben

"...our second unit is probably going to be a little better than your second unit…and by "probably going to be a little better than" I mean "is going to crush like a dump truck running over an empty beer can""

"YOU MOVE NOW! GREG DUNK BIG!"

-Dave

by Magnum on Oct 17, 2008 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember Ime

The best way to look at it is that it is an experiment. Nate is a very smart basketball coach and isn’t going to continually plug Batum into a spot if it obviously doesn’t work. Brandon Roy is also a very intelligent Basketball player, and I respect his opinion, and am willing to give this a try.

I believe this scheme does infact work well for Nate’s minute management, Batum has been described as a quick learner which means he is adapting well to Nate’s playbook, and understands his position. With Batum starting, the team is able to sub Rudy in first and switch Roy to the 3, before bringing in Sergio and Outlaw. Honestly it makes a lot of sense to me, but I know there are a lot of detractors.

I point to Ime Udoka as an example… He was not heralded much as our starter at first… But, damn did that ever work out or what?

Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii

by Outlaw is Rejector on Oct 17, 2008 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand your example

Ime didn’t work out, we let him walk. Would anyone trade Outlaw, Webster, or Batum for Udoka?

I agree with you that Nate is smart coach and won’t stay with Batum if it obviously works very badly. But we could lose the first 5 games (which are against top opponents) by just a couple of points each with Batum playing acceptably. I think there is a higher probability of winning if Rudy played Batum’s 20 minutes, because he would contribute more and the overall offense would execute better. If Nate wants Batum’s defense I’d rather he took those minutes from Outlaw than Rudy. I don’t want to get into the Outlaw thing, but I don’t think Outlaw will mesh as well with the “2nd unit” this year as he did last year.

This is just my speculation and opinion. That’s what we fans do while waiting for the regular season to start. I have great respect for Nate and if he goes with Batum to start the regular season I’m sure he will do it for good reasons. I hope it works.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 17, 2008 2:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe.

Outlaw has a higher perceived value, but I would be willing to bet that Udoka would get you more wins. At the time they let him walk everyone was still banking on Webster and Outlaw breaking out. Plus, didn’t they just pick up James Jones in the Rudy deal? I’m sure having four small forwards seemed crazy at the time and since Udoka’s contract was up it just made the most sense to let him go. If he was still on the team I have a feeling he would be the starting SF over Batum while Martell is out.

If somebody hits you with an object you should beat the hell out of them.-Charles Barkley

by Winchester on Oct 17, 2008 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ime worked out while he was here.

Can you ask for more than that. He wanted a longer term commitment than the Blazers were willing to give because of his legs as I remember. He played well and won some games for the Blazers. As for trading Outlaw, Webster, or Batum for Udoka…I probably would for one or more of those players. Ime played great defence, he played the right way, and he could hit shots at crunch time. A great player just a little to risky for the money and time he wanted. Like James Jones.

I could be wrong now. But I don't think so!

by Kampeska on Oct 17, 2008 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ime was a great guy!

He was one of the good guys after some not so good guys. He was a local kid. I don’t dislike Ime.

My earlier comment was that I wouldn’t rely on a 19-year-old Batum to be the small forward on a Blazer team that needs to make the playoffs this year. Ime was offered up as an example of someone “not heralded much as our starter at first” but he worked out very well as a starter. What has that got to do with Batum? Ime wasn’t a 19-year-old kid with no NBA experience. He had previous opportunities with two NBA teams, and D-League experience, and he was about 10 years older than Batum. Ime never proved he was good enough to start for any playoff team. When we let him walk he didn’t get any offers to start for any playoff team. He started for a bad Blazer team that was 32-50. This team may need to be 50-32 to make the playoffs. I forget, who was the last 19-year-old that started at small forward on a team that won 50 games?

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 17, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its a broad comparison

People did not think Ime should have started, but he did, and he excelled.

I’m giving Batum the benefit of the doubt, thats all.

Man I love tongue tacos - Mortimer
Only thing better is Trout on a stick roasted over an open fire - annthefan
I have a pic like that of my dog - tominhawaii

by Outlaw is Rejector on Oct 17, 2008 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Johnny Davis

To continue with the 1976-77 analogy…Webster is Dave Twardzik (Pinball hurt his ankle in the playoffs) and Batum is Davis.

Here’s hoping the rook will show maturity beyond his years, again

by two4larue on Oct 17, 2008 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

I accept your points Outlaw is Rejector and two4larue. If Batum is put in this position I dearly want him to succeed for his sake and the team. I’ve rooted for every Blazer rookie to do well since poor Larue. Well… Walter Berry, in Truth, that was a bit difficult, but look who we got for him!

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 17, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you have been a fan since 1970

then you will remember that Jack Ramsay used 5 for 5 substitutions at times in 1977 and extensively for the first 3/4 of the 77-78 season.

5 for 5 works superbly when you’ve got a complete and competent second unit. It keeps your starters fresh.

The most amazing thing about my amazing ego is I have amazingly little about which to be egotistical.
The pick and roll this year will emphasize "roll" followed by "dunk", followed by the wailings and lamentations of your women.

by jscot on Oct 17, 2008 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't recall that happening much in the 76-77 season

I think either Lucas or Walton was on the floor most of the time. Lloyd Neal and Robin Jones missed a lot of games – as did Walton. But I think you are right that it happened more frequently in the 77-78 season. But this team isn’t in the same universe as the 77-78 Blazers. That team was a lock for the playoffs and the starting unit just blew away most teams until Big Red went down. There were a lot of games that we just coasted in the 4th. So it made sense to rest the starters when you knew you were going to win games and go to the playoffs.

This Blazer team is no better than 50-50 to make the playoffs this year (in my opinion) and won’t be able to rest Brandon as much as some people think. I don’t think the starters are going to blow away many teams either. Nate said he was going to play an 8-9 man rotation, and I haven’t heard that he has changed his mind (I think it will take a few months to get to that rotation though).

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 17, 2008 3:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know Nate said that

He also said last summer that Taurean would win some games for us, and then never played him.

Who would you leave out of the 8-9 man rotation? Center? No, Joel will play. PF? No, Channing will play. SF? Travis will play. SG? Rudy will play, or it will be an international incident. PG? One of Sergio or Jerryd will play.

We’re deep, very deep. This is a 10-man rotation team. This team is deeper than the Walton team ever was. We won’t play a 10 man rotation because the starters will blow people out (though that will happen on occasion, too). We’ll play a 10 man rotation because we can wear teams down by doing so, because no one has a bench like ours, because you need your bench players to be ready in case of injury, and because it will keep our starters’ minutes down, and both Brandon and Greg need that. The only starter that we should be really comfortable about 38 mpg is LMA.

We have legitimate game winners on our bench. Rudy, Travis, Sergio, and Jerryd all have the capability to go crazy and win a game single-handedly.

by jscot on Oct 17, 2008 4:07 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

jscot, there weren't that many games on TV in '77'

so you must have been sitting at the MC with me. Do you remember that feeling before Walton et. al. would put together a big run and blow the other team away? You didn’t know exactly when it was coming, but you always felt it was just a matter of time. That’s the feeling I want to have again.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Oct 17, 2008 3:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

That was awesome. Yes, I spent some time at MC.

I’ll always remember the backdoor cuts to the basket and Walton dropping it off to Gross or Twardzik for an easy two.

Or the sense that any minute, we were going to run off 3-4 fastbreaks in a row and change the game for good.

The sense that no one, absolutely no one, would take one from us at home, and that we would always be able to get enough on the road to get where we wanted to go.

If the injury bug had never hit, we’d have won 67 games that year, and more the next. We were adding Mychal Thompson to that team with the pick we got for Malone. Can you imagine what that team would have been with Lloyd Neal and Thompson as our backups at PF and C?

by jscot on Oct 17, 2008 4:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't Jack Ramsey, it was Jack McCloskey.

He tried it for a while and it wasn’t the magic bullet he hoped it would be so he discarded it.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Oct 17, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How does this new priority of keeping the 2nd unit intact fit with Nate’s repeated comments that he wants an 8 or 9 man rotation? This ain’t hockey. 5-for-5 substitutions don’t work on NBA playoff teams. As unfortunate as it is, Marty’s injury had temporarily solved one of Nate’s biggest problems this year – how to get Rudy minutes. So now we move a 19-year-old kid without a minute of NBA experience into the starting lineup with a 20-year-old kid without a minute of NBA experience. Do the other NBA playoff teams have the "experience thing" all wrong?

I’m thinking Nate might be rethinking the 8 or 9 man rotation in light of what he has in the rotation. The team is just too stacked for that – most likely we’ll see a 11-12 man rotation. As we saw in the Olympics, he played a lot of combinations (how much of that was strategy and how much was to massage the egos of all the Team USA players is unknown) instead of a tight rotation.

by DonkeyShins on Oct 17, 2008 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Although Nate prefers an 8 man rotation by playoff time,

hehas said even his Seattle playoff teams only got down to 9.5 (10). I think he can manage this. Sorry I don’t have a link.

"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum

by G_dubs on Oct 17, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

McMillan confirms Batum to start next Monday

Per Steve Brandon article at The Portland Tribune about the scrimmage at Cleveland HS last night. Sorry I can’t link it due to no cut and paste vs. iPhone.

"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum

by G_dubs on Oct 17, 2008 1:04 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Correction! Kerry Eggers article, not Brandon

"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum

by G_dubs on Oct 17, 2008 1:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The big story here?

High value is being placed on the second unit playing as a unit.

This is Nate’s answer to the minutes dilemma. Put in five guys as a unit. Use our depth to wear down opponents.

Hopefully we’ll push the pace, too. The more depth you have, the more likely it is to pay off with increased possessions.

by jscot on Oct 17, 2008 2:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

Thids is what I posted in may:

If we want two units in competition
we can play with two different styles, so:
A) (2007-20087 style)
Roy/Blake
Webster/Roy
Jones/Webster
LMA
Pryz
B) ("Run-run-run" style)
Sergio/JJ
Rudy/JJ
Outlaw
Frye/Outlaw
Oden

I forgot the Oden NBA star status, I thought he could fit better than Priz in a runinnig unit. If you change Oden for Pryz it is exactly our second unit.

I thought and I still think that Rudy is so good player that you can build a unit around him and that the other mentioned players fit there. There will be adjustments to do with Priz (can he get a pass?) and Outlaw (can he play off the ball), but once they are done they can kill you coming of the bench. That is why they are playing together and that´s why it seems that they have “personality”, something you may also say about the first unit. Both units have different personalities and I think they are learning a lot from each other because the level of competition among them is very high.

I think the first unit will make the hard work and the second unit will be the “coup de grâce”.

Sergio + Rudy = 16
Sergio + Bayless = 16
Batum 8+8=16

by amlmart1 on Oct 17, 2008 3:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Sub Bayliss for JJ and Batum for Jones

and by Jove I think you’ve got it! Good show ol’ chap!

"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum

by G_dubs on Oct 17, 2008 4:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

sub rudy for JJack

sub rudy for JJ33 and there you go

by 50backflips on Oct 17, 2008 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

rudy already in his list from the spring take another look

"Brandon Roy a une énorme confiance en lui et un niveau de maturité assez impressionnant, et en plus c’est un vrai leader" - Nic Batum

by G_dubs on Oct 17, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pryz

The one thing I’d like to see from him (aside from softer hands / better shots) is for him to develop a killer outlet pass a la Walton. If he could get that, given his stellar board-cleaning skills and pick-setting skills, he could really shine in a run & gun offense. I think it would expose his weaknesses less and he showed in the preseason that he can run the trailer on the offense for the dunk.

by DonkeyShins on Oct 17, 2008 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs