Gameday Open Thread: Jazz at Blazers
Here we go with the Jazz again! This is the last time we'll see them this year unless we meet in the post-season...and that matchup would be a real stretch at this point even if you believe both teams are going to make it. So let's make it a good one! Several people here and in the media as well have suggested that this is the next great rivalry in the West. It's starting earlier than people thought, but I'm game. How about we give them a pumped up, rousing Gameday thread to remember us by?
Kirilenko is out tonight and Brandon Roy is a game-time decision according to Jason Quick. But Roy or no Roy, let's hope for a great game. Register all of your thoughts about the game--before, during, and after--right here!
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Playing for more than just a tie breaker here.
It's very likely that one of Golden State, Denver, Utah or Portland will miss the playoffs. The two game separation could be the difference between the Jazz or the Blazers going fishing this playoff season.
It could also mean the difference between the Jazz or the Blazers capturing the division title and the 4th playoff seed (at least) that goes with it, instead of a 7th or 8th playoff seed. If you look at Hollingers's playoff odds which takes into account the remaining games for all teams,
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds
Denver is the team that chokes and Utah the team that smokes. He has Utah besting Portland for the division crown and capturing the 4th seed, with Portland regulated to the 8th seed, by two games... Exactly the difference of separation tonight's game counts for.
So tonights game could be for the division championship, or could determine who does not make the play-offs. And that my friends, is not just a tie breaker. BOOK IT FATTY
Go Blazers
by mrwonderfull on Jan 5, 2008 12:36 AM PST reply actions
Possible
The division championship also involves Denver, who is not really impacted that much by this game.
--Dave
Put another way...
if they don't end up being competitive, than I suppose this game isn't quite as important.
As fans, we usually root for the former category to be the case.
I think the point is...
Your two game theory sounds great but it should be noted that if all those things work out like you say, you could look at the losses at Philly, charlotte and Washington and say that is why we didn't win the division, not this one game.
Anyway I think that is the point Dave is trying to make. It is a big game, but it isn't a big game.
Big game
We certainly could end up in a battle with them for the division or even the eighth spot. They are going to start clicking sometime, but I don't know when. The further ahead we get, the better. If we want a shot at winning the division, we have to beat them out.
Look for some guys to be hitting the boards hard tonight. They remember what happened Monday.
We need some big production out of our 3 point shooters, especially if Brandon doesn't play.
We can beat these guys without LMA, how huge would it be if we beat them without Roy? Don't get me wrong, I really hope Roy can play, because I think this is a huge game, but it will be a very good test of our players to see how they respond if he is out.
Half time guy started this
A win and a loss is still only one game. If you are tied with a team and you beat them, you go up by one game not two. When you don't play a team, the result is a 1/2 game because you have to wait for the result of their game to find out if you gained a game on them or stayed equal.
If there are two halves to a donut, and you are fighting with someone over those halves and you win, you still eat one donut not two.
The one time it does become two is where you reasoned it becomes three. If you win the tie breaker, at the end of the season they would need to surpass you by one game to take the lead.
Well
It's a somewhat bigger than normal game, but no more important than the last game we played against them, or the next game we play against Denver...or technically if you're thinking in terms of ties (which is what gives this game the potential to weigh more) than EVERY game that gets us into that tie.
Has anyone heard more about Roy playing? He's saved our bacon so many times in the last couple of weeks that I'm really not looking forward to playing without him. There's really no substitute.
--Dave
I'm torn
I'm torn because I have all these issues in my head:
- If he's hurt, he should rest
- He's the leader, if he toughs it out, it shows strength, and leadership to the team
- He is paid to play the game
- I would like to see if the team steps up when their leader is down
- I would rather him not really be hurt that bad at all and play
- WWLBD
Waiting for Pre_game
GO BLAZERS!
honkaplayboys.comTony Luftman (sp?) started this?
"He reasoned: 'If you beat someone in your own division it is a two game swing. You get a win, they get a loss thus equaling two games.'"
The correct reasoning is that if you lose to someone in your own division, you lose a full game on them (-1) because they win (half game) and you lose (another half game). Two halves = 1 whole game. But if you beat someone in your own division, you gain a full game on them (1) for the same reasons, only in reverse. So it is a potentional two game swing between you losing or winning a game against a divisional rival. (1 - (-1) = 2)
That's actually not accurate though
If Team A wins they are 21-20 while the opponent is 20-21. The edge is one game.
If Team B wins it's 21-20 while the opponent is 20-21. The edge is one game.
At no point is a second game involved. Each team falls exactly one game behind the other either way, in-division or not.
The only way it's different is if it decides a tie-breaker which would require the other team to win a second game to pull ahead, which only matters if the teams end up exactly tied.
This is different than the "four point swing" that is sometimes described in games. In that case a team blows an easy layup which leads directly to an easy layup for the opponent. So you count the shot you missed as -2 and the shot they made as -2 and call it a four point swing. But that second layup is a distinct event from the first. (In other words there are two separate shots involved.) In this case there is only one game. There is no second. So there is no two-game swing anywhere. Just one.
--Dave
That is what I was trying to say earlier
(I did mention the two game tie-breaker thing at the end of my post too.)
I don't understand
Now let's say that the Blazers beat the Jazz instead of losing to them. They'll gain one game, but they will also "not lose" one game in the standings (which would have happened if they lost), so it could be viewed as a two game split because you cannot tie a game in the NBA (at least, it's very unlikely).
The flaw
In the case of the basket there are two events:
Blazers miss a basket = 2 points in the hole
Opponent makes a basket = 2 more points in the hole
Thus they say a 4-point turnaround.
In the case of the game there's only one event:
1. Blazers win the game which the Jazz also lose = 1 game lost
It seems like you should be able to say that the Blazers win and the Jazz lose so that's like two games but that's not accurate. It's the same game, thus only a one-game swing.
To say it the other way would be like counting one basket twice. It would be like saying the Blazers make a 2 point basket which also puts the Jazz 2 points behind so that's a 4-point swing on one bucket. That doesn't make sense.
In any case, this is all a technicality. I don't know about you, but I'm rooting for the Blazers to muscle up and kick their butts. This game DOES count as two specifically against the Jazz IF we are tied with them at the end of the season, provided we win tonight of course. That would mean being tied with us at the end of the year would not be enough for them. We force them to win one more game than we do to edge us out.
I would not say that overall this game is as important as two, but it does weigh something more than a regular game. We make life harder on one of our 4-5 closest competitors by winning it.
--Dave
Who starts in place of Roy?
Barrett said Jack would start
Barrett also seemed to think Roy would likely play, as the Blazers got a good few-day-rest coming up after this Jazz game. Whatever Roy does is fine with me, as long as he can move and won't make this an injury that lingers. A hurt bottom is no joke!
And you KNOW the Jazz will try to knock him on his sore butt over and over, along with giving him a second black eye and hurt elbow. They are jerks like that. DIRTY JERKS.
I bet Roy will play hurt, because he's a warrior. Since I know him personally because I watch every Blazer game, I'd bet maybe he doesn't like being thought of as "injury prone" and will push harder to dispel that myth by playing hurt. Playing all 82 games would do wonders for that 'injury prone' label.
I love that he stayed in the game against Chicago to act as a decoy... that's toughness. I thought he was just extra tired, but knowing he was hurt makes everything clearer and makes me want to marry him even more. I'm sure I wasn't the only one saying "Oooph give the ball to Roy dangit!" in those overtimes, and by staying in the game Chicago had to concentrate on him, allowing Aldridge/Jack/Outlaw to take over. That shows great basketball IQ, knowing how his mere presence affects the entire game... even if he can't be himself.
Somehow I can't see surefire Allstars like Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady doing that.
Roy honey, if you're hurt, please sit. Take the next few days off and watch movies with Oden. We got 20 wins already, and that's all we were supposed to have (according to some pundits). Our work is done for the season. Sit on a pillow and reeeeeelax...
Oh, you want to play? Fine with me!
Mortimer
I think you go
Jack
Webster
Aldridge
Przybilla
and give Jack a ton of touches.
Second unit:
Sergio
Webster/Jack/Blake depending on who's hitting
Jones
Outlaw
Frye
Either way you cut it, Jack is going to get a huge amount of minute tonight, especially after his gutsy performance in Chicago the other night.
We can't just go with...
by Pinot on Jan 5, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
We were discussed on PTI again
FIFTY WINS!
Kornheiser and the guy who isn't Wilbon both said under (with Kornheiser loving the team, and Roy, and Oden, and KP, and Blake, and hoping we win the championship next year), but that's not the point. Even PONDERING whether this is a 50 win team is amazing.
To make this more on topic, I'll just say that if we win 50 games we won't have to worry about losing the season series with Utah.
I do not think we'll win 50, just for the record. But I also didn't think we'd have 20 after a third of the season has passed, so what do I know. I really don't mind being "wrong", even though I never said we WOULDN'T be doing this well. In a roundabout way, I guess you could say I saw this coming from the beginning...?
Ok, you can't say that. Who cares, we're still doing good.
Obviously I hope we win tonight, and it'll be gravy if the win actually affects any possible "seeding" or "playoff possibilities in the event of a tie". Those are just mythical, imaginary words at this point.
One game at a time! I don't care if it's cliche when it's REAL.
Mortimer
40 is a better number to debate
by BlazerBandit on Jan 5, 2008 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
all star Roy
It also will not hurt for Roy to outplay Deron Williams again and the Blazers win the season series over the Jazz. I am still hoping that Roy will be able to go tonight and I will expect him to play until I hear that he is out for sure.
by Sir 1 on Jan 5, 2008 11:09 AM PST reply actions
Chris Paul
We have to do something about this Chinese voting contingency that gets Yao's teammates voted in.
My proposal: Tell everyone that Brandon Roy is from India. This will offset many of the votes that go to teammates of Yao Ming.
The Seahawks need to get the running game going
Watchin
What language are you listening in?
We've only got one game in the next week
I expect a blowout
I should be a libriarian
In a strange turn of events...
between this
If there is one player I thought would not follow the Dennis Rodman exit from the league it would have been Scottie Pippen.
I went halves on NBA League Pass w/ someone else
Since League pass online doesn't do NBATV, is there a way people are watching this game on Sopcast or otherwise?
Travis Outlaw for 6th man of the year
by BlazerBandit on Jan 5, 2008 6:01 PM PST reply actions
no pregame on kxl?
Even if it is Neanderthal Antonio Harvey.
Waiting for Pre-Game on KXL
Saw Paulie at the Game
Blazer Pre Game is ON NOW!
"Lenny Suckerpunch NEVER bet on me!" - Elizabeth "The Lizzard" Lowblowby Lizzy Lowblow on Jan 5, 2008 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
PHEW
-- Quick
Brandon is "hoping to play"
Treat the J*zz with contempt
Remember "This is Our Paint"
"Lenny Suckerpunch NEVER bet on me!" - Elizabeth "The Lizzard" Lowblowyea,need game online
by soulja2boy on Jan 5, 2008 7:10 PM PST reply actions
Oh wait,
Adrenaline solves most ailments
Block Party
Any alternatives to Channelsurfing.net tonight?
Oooooh
Ugh
I think I'm gonna be crying and whining more tonight than Dave Jr.
To answer above...
One would assume
They said Roy left the bench area when he was out...perhaps because it was painful to sit. He came right back. I guess they figured if he was going to stand he might as well play.
What up gangstas?
Booz to the bench
honkaplayboys.com24 second
About 2 minutes
The referees group-moons the crowd very soon.
Wait for it... Wait for it...
Jeepers
Was that a nice dunk?
For those who can't see
Okay
You need: http://tvants.en.softonic.com/download
Uh Oh
OKAY
Windows Media:
mms:/streamwebtown.com/portah
SOPCAST:
sop:
Wow
Hey folks...we shouldn't overlook this. We are playing the Utah Jazz toe-to-toe and it's an even fight. As I keep saying they went to the Conference Finals last year. This is not something to be taken for granted.
Exactly what I was thinking
Call me crazy
I can think of a few folks
They cut to Nate watching that Sergio free throw
Egh
9:20 on the clock as I submit this.
Again I say
I felt like it was answered...
Jack won't shoot now
Nice
Nice shot too
I just saw
That was a great pass by Jack
I liked it better
dave, really?
Yah
respectively i disagree
Is B Roy
It's still to early for that kind of talk
Damn
OUch
That was bad
I'm sick of blackheads
If Roy is not in yet...
LMA
Living in Colorado...
by BrewBlazer on Jan 5, 2008 7:58 PM PST reply actions
I have always disliked the Jazz
I used to hate the Jazz a LOT
Nowhere anywhere no how close to how much I hate the Lakers though.
Why do they call that on LMA?
It was a nice pirowet
LMA doing more than his share
Yeah
Okur was a big factor
OTH the defense by both teams is good.
We're doing a nice job
We're pretty good... at dribbling the ball off our own foot! BAWOMBA!
We're doing alright... at having less points!
Deron Williams
I think we need some Super Trout a little early tonight.
That is the question
Fortunately we have a light schedule in the coming week.
He could have on
Does radio have any updates?
Is Roy okay? Did he get my letter?
Jack responds to the pre-game love fest with
1-5, 1 assist, 3 turnovers, 0 rebounds.
let's hope he turns it around in the 2nd.
The Bulls and Kings are going down to the wire
Jac 28 - Pit 29
Don't make me mention Blogabull again
What? What? WHAT????
Now he has to win it from the free throw line.
WOW. What the heck kind of stupid idea was that?
Miller blocked by Wallace
Maybe time expired first
HOWEVER
I can't imagine Theus being a good coach, but what do I know.
Playing horribly
And Sergios
They just said
Losing the game is one thing
Not going to matter if we can't shut down the lane
That was nice
Wow choke 3's going down.
Another Blazer
Joel
Man
Quick mentioned
I hope it's true.
Man I love this team...
by BrewBlazer on Jan 5, 2008 8:35 PM PST reply actions
I was going to say that
Sweet
SEND MARTELL TO THE BIG EASY
Utah
This reminds me
This is the best season ever
Imagine
the Home Garden Network?
The official stats
if he made that
by soulja2boy on Jan 5, 2008 8:43 PM PST reply actions
Crazy
I like how Frye
Mike just said
This is my first chance to join in the fun...
I just hate it when I can't join a good party until it half over.
Relatively Decent!?!?!
Ummm....
Go freaking Webby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Webster with the career game...
by BrewBlazer on Jan 5, 2008 8:51 PM PST reply actions
The Web-Slinger has just...
Making the streets safe for Blazer fans.
webster
by soulja2boy on Jan 5, 2008 8:52 PM PST reply actions
Wow Martell
My favorite Blazer is having a career game and a team record quarter!
One point off the record
Great steal Sergio.
Martell is tired
Martell
Why
LMA and Outlaw
Man, I love these guys, amazing
Is there an uglier shot in the league
He makes Shawn Marion look like Martell.
Is Sergio going to take Roy's minutes?
What a team
I love how
I'll be honest
So many weapons.
Does that make Roy a system MVP?
Man this is so freakin fantastic.
by BrewBlazer on Jan 5, 2008 9:06 PM PST reply actions
Utah is becoming a...
Spankings for the bunch!!!
I read somewhere
by MegaPowerBoy on Jan 5, 2008 9:07 PM PST reply actions
Rice is right
Rose Garden
Sorry about that juju
Paul Allen looks
Sergio and Blake
Martell is currently at
Sergio Garcia?
Who's the better known Sergio?
At least they didn't call Frye "Carol Channing".
Are you chaning your son?
McRobertsMcRobertsMcRobertsMcRoberts
Why couldn't we have had ths kind of game ......
True.....but winning 13+ shows its not a fluke.
Is McRoberts
It's the last time we play the Jazz
wheels talks about beating ut 3 times in 26 days
pretty impressive to watch. I've always been a nate fan, but I never considered him a good game coach. he's changing my opinion!
GO BLAZERS!!
17th game win streak
by soulja2boy on Jan 5, 2008 9:19 PM PST reply actions
I was scolded when I called a girl cute...
I think they are better than good
Wow.
by MegaPowerBoy on Jan 5, 2008 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
No the Jazz
Updated stats (corrected after the game by sportsline.com):
Blazers:
FG = 51%
3-Point = 55%
FT = 87%
Jizz:
FG = 47%
3-Point = 40%
FT = 62%
Who would have thought the Blazers would out shoot these guys at the foul line by 25%?
This is...
Oh man
Game report and jersey contest stuff will be coming up later.
--Dave
Has McRob
Rookie initiation
Yeah, Green was already thrown into a pool
Martell came here to chew gum
#1 in the Division!!!!
sergio goes for his
The only thing to make this more perfecter
Too bad the Nugs didn't lose tonight.
Very few teams lose when they don't play.
Yes, I know...
We're talking storybook, here... :-)
We BEAT these turkeys...
I also noticed
Seahawks win and Blazers win.
Mike and Mike make great points about our guys.
I hope this does give Martell much more confidence. He is still very young and needs ongoing support and encouragement. Tonight will keep him going for a few games. He is growing up in front of our eyes.
Outlaw's dunk from the other night
That highlight of the dunk attempt
WOW!!!
I loved Martell's dunk attempt!!! Too bad he didn't make that. I also loved the attitude he showed after he missed it. I can't wait until that entire quarter is youtubed... someone... seriously... start doing some video editing with some good music and POST VIDEOS!!!
I hope that someone...
Way to go, snagging that great "Dave Quote" for your signature line.

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