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Can we Rebound?

We are one of the worst rebounding teams in the NBA and it does not look like we will improve. My question is, how hard is it to rebound in the NBA? Lamarcus Aldridge had only 3 rebounds against Utah and all we ever said was, what a great game he had. So he scored 36 points, but he ONLY had 3 rebounds. We lost the battle of the boards by 11 so forgive me for saying this. Lamarcus did not have a great game, he had a shooting game but poor on the glass. Now we are going to have Oden next season to help LMA out but this season is not lost. If Sir Charles at 6-7ft can average 10+ rebounds, why can't LaMarcus at 6-11ft ?

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The Blazers don't body up
Watch tonight and see what I'm talking about.  Rather than put a body on someone, like the very good rebounders do, the Blazers as a team chase the ball off the rim.  That allows guys to sneak in and grab rebounds and it also prevent long rebounds from being corralled.  

Anything that requires body contact, ie rbounding, interior defense, the Blazers are going to struggle at.  Taking charges is great, but at some point you have to make it hard to get into the key in the first place.

by leeroyjenkins on Jan 2, 2008 8:53 AM PST reply actions  

LaMarcus would be the first to say...
that three rebounds isn't cutting it.  But that's not a typical rebounding game from him.  In fact, I'll bet he saw that stat and determined to improve on it vs the Wolves. Look for him to get at least eight boards tonight.

As for comparing LMA's rebounding at 6-11 to Barkley's at 6-7, since when is height the key to rebounding?  Wes Unseld was one of the top rebounders in NBA history at 6-7.  So was Paul Silas at 6-8.  Paul Millsap--at 6-8--is the only player in NCAA history to lead the nation in rebounding three years straight.  What do all those players have in common?  They're "wide-bodies."  If you are able to carve out a large chunk of space in the lane, that negates the reach or leaping ability of the guys you're rebounding against.

Also, whereas Barkley did most of his offensive work in the post--putting him close to the hoop for rebounding purposes--LMA frequently operates at the high post.  This is NOT necessarily a bad thing, incidentally.  When you have a center (in this case Pryz or Frye) operating down low, putting your four near the top of the key stretches the defense, creating scoring opportunities for your center or for penetrating guards.  (Nate never played Zach and Magloire together because they clogged the lane.) Sure, your four won't get a lot of rebounds when he's stationed out high, but neither will the man guarding him.

At the defensive end, Barkley was all about rebounding, but he was NOT about helping out on defense (and he wasn't built to be effective if he tried).  By contrast, LMA helps out continually--especially on penetrating guards.  That puts him out of position to rebound.  This is not LMA's fault; rather it's on the Blazer guards.  And remember: Zach Randolph's failure to help in those situations was one of the things that killed the Blazers in recent years.

Finally, the Blazers have been playing a lot of zone defense lately (mainly to cover for the defensive shortcomings of the guards), and it's always difficult to rebound when playing zone.  This is one of the chief reasons teams generally only play zone sparingly.  It's a straight-forward trade-off: you give up defensive rebounds (and subsequent fast breaks) in hopes of stopping dunks and drive-and-dish opportunities.

So while LMA's rebounding certainly needs to improve, there are valid reasons why his rebounding stats shouldn't be expected to equal Barkley's--despite LMA's superior height.  If LMA ends up being a 22 point, 8 rebound, 2 block, 2 steal guy, that'll be perfect.  And you can pretty well pencil him in for those numbers next season; he's practically there now and he's still a skinny sophomore.  The combo of LMA and Oden is going to be a nightmare for the rest of the league.

Not that those two alone should have to carry the rebounding load for the team.  Have you watched Outlaw, Frye, et al block out?  They frequently don't even remember to attempt it.  Those guys must improve also.  Like LMA, they presumably will as they mature.  But the Blazers will ultimately need to acquire rebounding help in the form of a Millsap-type rebounder off the bench.  If you noticed, the Jazz beat the Blazers with gang rebounding.  It wasn't just Boozer in there doing the damage.  They had a whole squad full of guys crashing the boards--each and every one looking more like a linebacker than a basketball player.  Kind of like a certain "Round Mound of Rebound" (aka "Sir Charles").

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Jan 2, 2008 9:05 AM PST reply actions  

Rodman
was a thin, slithery, not very tall guy, who was an incredible rebounder, one of the all time greats, and a very underappreciated part of the Bulls/Piston championship teams.  Barkley wasn't really a boxout type of rebounder, he was a go-get-the-damn-ball guy.

LMA doesn't look appreciably smaller than Tim Duncan.  If Timmy can dig out boards against the goliaths of the NBA, I don't see any reason why LMA can't.  To me, LMA looks like he's just not trying very hard on the glass.

As far as the zone, mostly it's the bench unit playing zone, we're in man coverage with our starters 75% of the time, so this is just a smokescreen as far as I'm concerned.

by howlingfantods on Jan 2, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

There's more than one type of rebounder
I saw a video segment where Dwight Howard was discussing this.  He's made a study of great rebounders and has tried to incorporate techniques from each.  He mentioned Rodman as a quickness-style rebounder.  Rodman was freakishly athletic, and also had great anticipation and desire.  If you re-read my post, I never said widebodies were the only effective rebounders.  I just said that it's false to assume a 6-7 widebody shouldn't be able to outrebound a 6-11 beanpole.  Incidentally, as Rodman's career went on, he learned that rebounding was his meal ticket, so he lost all willingness to help on defense.  In that way, he became like our own Stat-bo--padding his rebounding numbers at the expense of the team concept.  (Not that Rodman wasn't great; in his prime, he was EVERYWHERE, seemingly grabbing every loose ball.)

As for Barkley, I remember his rebounding style very differently than you do.  He got that big butt into you and froze you, THEN he went and got the board.  Notably, he was not only a widebody, but an incredible leaper for someone built like that.

For all types of rebounders, strength is vital.  Rodman may not have appeared unusually strong, but he definitely was.  Same with Carmelo Anthony; he looks kind of pudgy, but he shoves people out of the way like they're not even there.  Ditto the skinny-looking Marcus Camby.  As for Duncan, he's extremely strong, and if you look carefully, he's much bigger in the lower body than LMA currently is.

So I disagree with your contention that LMA doesn't try hard for rebounds.  First, he's physically overmatched because he's currently younger and skinnier than most of the guys he's competing against.  (Although that's changing by the month, thanks to LMA's dedication in the weight room.) Second, as I explained in my earlier post, LMA's high-post positioning on offense and penchant for helping out on defense often put him out of position to rebound.  That's OK; he's playing the way the Blazers want him to--especially next season when Oden will be manning the low post.

I do concede your point about the Blazers' use of the zone.  I'd forgotten that it's more the bench unit playing zone than the starters. But my basic argument is unchanged: LMA is already a remarkable player and getting better by the day.  Harping on his rebounding numbers is off-base.  If the rest of the Blazers (excepting Pryz) weren't remarkably poor rebounders, this wouldn't be an issue.  The Blazers are getting killed as a team on the boards.  Sure, LMA's three boards vs the Jazz was weak, but that was a fluke.  In general, LMA's rebounding to date has been acceptable given his physical immaturity and the way he's being utilized.

The bottom line is that every team in the league would kill to have this young, gifted, team-oriented player on their squad.  By this time next year, when LMA is averaging around 22/8 alongside Greg Oden--with the two players completely shutting down opposing teams' production in the paint--all the current criticism will be forgotten.  

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Jan 2, 2008 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Harpring comes to mind as well
Talk about linebackers on the court, crashing the boards. Harpring excells at it.

You're right. LMA doesn't have the linebacker mentality or the linebacker game plan in his head or his body. Not rugged. Not a "wide body."

A healthy Oden would (will) make up for this deficiency. Letting go of one of our Small Forwards and one of our PGs (ie, Webster and Jack) in exchange for a wide body rebound guy isn't necessarily a bad idea.

Nature bats last.

by fisheyes on Jan 2, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

As I predicted...
...LMA redeemed himself by getting "at least eight boards tonight" (11, to be exact).  He also had 17 points and 4 blocks.    
"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Jan 3, 2008 1:03 AM PST up reply actions  

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