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Next year's minutes

Like most of you I am loving this team this season and can't wait for Greg Oden and maybe Rudy to join the team next year. But then I get to thinking "where are all the minutes going to go?"

I have been doing this fun little exercise on and off for about a month now. Sometimes I do a 9 man rotation and other times a 10 man rotation. Adding in GO and Rudy and taking out different players who may not be here. Obviously, trades and signings (or not re-signing) would affect this, but with the players we currently have,  what will it be next year?

This year the minutes look this:

C - Przybilla 21, Frye 18
PF - LMA 34, Outlaw 26
SF - Webster 29, Jones 23
SG - Roy 37, Jack 27
PG - Blake 28, Sergio 9

My feeling is someone above has to go in order to fit in minutes for Oden and Rudy. This is a very difficult puzzle for KP. If I think about it almost every day, I imagine he thinks about it all the time.

My favorite scenario for next year looks like this:

C- Oden 32, Przybilla 14
PF - LMA 36, Frye 14
SF - Webster 24, Outlaw 24
SG - Roy 36, Jones 24
PG - Blake 24, Rudy 12

I see Jack being sent packing and Sergio still with us to help Rudy but just not playing much.

Tough puzzle. I am interested to see anyone else's minute projections for next year.

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I think
More people besides just jack will be leaving. Jones is not a 2, and Rudy is not a 1. I don't know about next year, but what I would like to see in the next few years is a playing rotation like this:
(all minutes are estimated)
Oden 30/Joel 10
LMA 30/Outlaw 25
Martell 25/Jones 25
Roy 35/ Rudy 23
Blake 25

That is a 9 man rotation, Blake starts at point, Roy moves to point when rudy comes in. Blake comes back in to rest Roy, and then Roy comes back in for rudy.
I still see us playing a line up of LMA at center and Outlaw at 4 at times during most games. And I like our 3 spot with Martell and Jones so I would like to keep it intact.

With this we would still have 12 mins per game not accounted for that the end of the bench guys will take up so it could work.

The only way I see this happening is if everyone of these players I listed reaches their potential for this team. It could be much different if one or more do not do that. But as of now that is how I want to see this team in 3 years.

I want to trade Sergio, unless he really comes on over the rest of this year, and then next year as well. Other wise trade him next year. I see Jack and Frye also leaving this team before it makes a serious run at a title.

by usmcr3049 on Jan 17, 2008 3:57 PM PST reply actions  

hmmmm..
23 minutes for Rudy seems awefully high since he hasn't scored a point in the NBA yet. 35 minutes for Roy is a little low, if your best player is a gaurd you generally want to play him around 38 minutes.
I agree with everything esle, although Aldridge could probably give you about 34-35 minutes a game.

by Jack Burton on Jan 17, 2008 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I was thinking
not about next year, but in 2-3 years if the players I mentioned developed as I hope they would. I hope Rudy is as good as I believe he will be, if he is, he will warrent those minutes, which will help reduce Roy's minutes, 35 is plenty to keep him healthy over the years.

by usmcr3049 on Jan 17, 2008 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I say
Oden -- 48 minutes
LMA -- 48 minutes
Martell -- 48 minutes
Roy -- 48 minutes
Me, Mortimer -- 48 minutes

Works in NBA 2k8 just fine, and that's how Isiah puts his team together.  He won 2 titles, if I need to remind anyone, plus coaches the team that owns a multi-game win streak.  Last I checked, we've lost every game since we beat New Jersey.

You might need to turn fatigue off, but it's worth it to put your guys in a position to succeed.  I don't play with fatigue off because I like a realistic game, but I wouldn't begrudge KP and Nate taking advantage of the option.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jan 17, 2008 4:47 PM PST reply actions  

240s not enough.
240 player minutes in an NBA game. That's not enough for this team. Can we play 6 guys?

-They'll take it easy on Oden's knee, and fouls will be a factor--25 minutes.
-I'm glad we have Joel to teach the young pup how to growl--18 minutes.
-Brandon will get what he's getting now--around 35.
-So will LMA--around 33.
-Frye--16.
-Martell--29.
-Travis--26.
-Jones--20.
-Blake--24.
-Rudy will start slow--14.

Breaks out like so:

C: Oden-25/Pryz-18/Frye-5
PF: Aldridge-33/Frye-11/Outlaw-4
SF: Martell-6/Outlaw-22/Jones-8
SG: Roy-11/Martell-23/Rudy-14
PG: Blake-24/Roy-24

Wow. That's 240 minutes? I just realized how much I don't want to be Nate McMillan next year.

by bfan on Jan 17, 2008 5:34 PM PST reply actions  

Pryz, Frye, Jack, Sergio
Those 4 will see the biggest drops in their minutes.  Its hard to predict without knowing our roster next year.  We are going to be an extremely deep team, maybe even too deep.

by jksnake99 on Jan 17, 2008 5:48 PM PST reply actions  

I emailed Dave awhile back about him posting
a piece on the roster and minutes and whether Portland was facing a "crisis".  At this point, I think it's too early to be worried about it.  

Right now there is no problem, with the possible exception of those who think Sergio isn't getting enough time.  So let's look to next season.

You are going to have to make some assumptions.

  1. Portland continues to play well and ends with a draft pick between 18 - 20.

  2. They bring Fernandez over next summer.

That's two guys you have to find spots for.  Rudy is easy.  You just don't resign Green or McRoberts.  The draft pick - supposedly he's going to be a better player than either of the two 2nd round picks we currently have. So again, you give up a guy who has no contract and hasn't been able to find playing time.  As much as we fans, Nate and Pritchard might like these two guys, in the big picture it's not tough decision.

Now you could argue that the three 2nd round picks we have are basically wasted, since we have no room for them (much like Demetrius Nichols with the Knicks).  The fact two of them should be fairly high 2nd rounders makes it hurt a little more.  But the thing is, it is not a forgone conclusion.  Pritchard does have options.  He can draft guys who he doesn't have to bring over right away.  He can trade them for picks in future drafts or as pieces of some other trade.

The next factor to consider is James Jones. Think Ime Udoka, only with Jones having better leverage.  Jones can choose not to come back.  I'd argue that a) it is reasonable to think he might be able to get a 3-4 year deal starting at the 3.5 mil he's due to earn next season, up to maybe 5 mil and b) it's 50 - 50 that Portland matches.  If Jones leaves, that's another open spot (and 20 minutes per).  It is very unlikely Portland adds more than two new players to the roster.

Freeland & Koponen?  Certainly not next season.

Looking at usmc's minutes breakdown (which is pretty good btw), give most of Jones minutes to Frye, with the rest going to maybe Joel, and at least for the first year cut Rudy's minutes in half and you have 23 minutes for either Jack or Sergio.  Basically you have a case of a couple of players having to compete for playing time, with most of the lineup pretty set.  I'd say that's about par for the course in the NBA.

by timg56 on Jan 17, 2008 6:06 PM PST reply actions  

Starting point for the 2000 Blazers
       I played an entire year on NBA live
as point guard. Stats - 41 ppg, 12 rpg, 27 apg
and 12 spg. A quad. That team dominated !
     Long live the Blazers !
It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on Jan 17, 2008 8:43 PM PST reply actions  

speaking of nba live
has anyone else noticed in the 2008 version sergio's entire hotspot chart is blue/cold?

by DominicanAvenger on Jan 18, 2008 1:18 AM PST up reply actions  

This season
is an audition for next year.  It is hard to imagine Martel and JJ1 hanging in if the stretches of no productivity continue.  Head problems. Channing is defining his role.  If he can get that done before the end of the year and be consistant he will stay.  Oden may be perfect for Channings game.  He can shoot well outside and zip a pass under the basket.  Rudy is an unknown even though I have watched his youtube highlights.  If he turns the ball over he won't play much.  Blake, Roy, LMA, Pryz, Trout, Oden, are locks.  Jones is a lock if he doesn't try to get rich.  Sergio will be back but not get many minutes.  Green and Mac need burn this year to stick around next.  Mac was having a rough time in the D-League game I saw - o of 4.  Green seems to think he is in over his head. Pippen complimented Petteri on his offense when he played agenst him.  I wouldn't count Petteri out for next year.  None of the locks will complain or even worry about minutes.  They want to win.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are plenty of minutes in a season.  More than if you just look at one game.  People get injured, need rest, and we want our players to have long careers.  Stockton and Malone took long breaks during games.  It did not hurt their production and extended their careers.  

In my perfect world all the individual self doubt goes away and we keep everyone who has had a part in this great run.  I love this team.  I want to watch them play for years to come.  

by Kampeska on Jan 17, 2008 8:45 PM PST reply actions  

Really
They only need to find 2 roster spots (for Rudy and the pick).  It's not about minutes.  It is about who wants to play on a TEAM and win championships.  I hope McRob stays.  
Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 17, 2008 11:34 PM PST reply actions  

It's all speculation
I predict JJ3 will be given an extended contract, but we don't know.  I think Rudy will cut significantly into JJ's time, but we don't know.  

With the crunch for roster spots, we don't know how it will be resolved.  Will our 2nd rounders be cut?  Will Raef be bought out?  Will KP make a trade, or three trades?

Martell, Travis, Channing, JJ, even Joel could possibly be traded.  It depends on who wants them and what they are willing to offer.  One thing we can be sure of, we have a lot of young guys who have increased their trade value over the last couple of months -- KP's phone will be ringing, and there will likely be some attractive options on the table.  

Until we know what the roster will look like, speculating about minutes is kind of useless.

by jscot on Jan 18, 2008 1:47 AM PST reply actions  

How about framing it this way...
Do you think Pritchard nneds to make a deal to clear up room on the roster?

This season, before the trade deadline?

Over the summer?

I'd say definitely no to the first.  As to the second, I'll go with your premise that there are enough unknown variables to make it nothing more than idle speculation.  Not that idle speculation isn't fun from time to time.

by timg56 on Jan 18, 2008 6:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, I expect a deal
  1. Rudy wants to come over.  If they won't bring him over, he may get fed up and sign a long contract over there, and you lose the asset.  So Rudy comes over.
  2. Koponen wants to come over.  He stayed in Finland this year, and got his military service out of the way, but you run the same risk -- will he leave Finland and sign a long-term Euro deal?  I think he comes over and spends the year in D-league.  This guy is Steve Blake junior, except he is taller.  
  3. We've got a first round pick.
  4. We've got 3 second rounders, including two very high ones.
  5. They gave Josh 2 years guaranteed, so they're very high on him, they don't want to just cut him.
  6. The only obvious cut to me is Green.  Nate likes him and he still can't crack the rotation.  I think he'll catch on somewhere, though.

Will there be a deal before the trade deadline?  I don't expect one, but if the offer is right, KP will pull the trigger.

KP isn't one to throw away assets.  So unless he's going to draft a slew of Euros to stash overseas, there will be a deal.  Probably several.  There's no point in drafting three second rounders out of college which you know you are going to have to cut.

They might buy out Raef, but you lose the opportunity to package his contract in a deal at the trading deadline next year.

They might buy out Darius, too, if they decide he's not going to contribute and not going to be tradeable.

But I think KP will do a deal.  I think we'll see at least one 2 for 1 trade, perhaps packaging a player and our first rounder for a higher pick.  We may also see 2nd round picks this year traded for 2nd round picks next year.  I think we might be able to use those picks more next year, we have some players whose contracts are up, and may be looking to draft a role player or two.

by jscot on Jan 18, 2008 7:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Buy a European team
Hey, instead of buying a D-league team. Why not invest in Euro team. Then it's not just a holding pen for picks - it's a team we can root for.

Spanish, Greek, Italian - fine by me. All good place to vacation and see the "other" Blazers

by holder on Jan 18, 2008 7:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Hell, he's Paul Allen. Buy both.
He can write off trips to Europe as a business expense.

I really like your idea.

by timg56 on Jan 18, 2008 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Sweet Darius
Quick was pretty adamant on a Quick Chat a while back that KP will not buyout Darius.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2008/01/0109_quick_chat.html

Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 18, 2008 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

There are more factors
then just those of 'talent', even though judging talent is a subjective art.

But there will absolutely be a minutes crunch if no moves are made this summer.

Just the addition of Oden to the rotation will cause it. Assuming Oden and Pryzbilla log 42-45 mintes a game at C, means LMA will be playing almost all of his minutes ast PF...probably 32-35 a game. That would mean there will only be 12-18 minutes a game for backup PF, and right now both Outlaw and Frye get a lot more then that there with LMA playing a lot at C.

So if both Outlaw and Frye remain, it would mean that Outlaw will be sliding over to SF a lot more (where he's not as effective) and that there would be a real squeeze at SF with 48 mintes trying to be divided between outlaw, webster, and jones.

Normally you'd think maybe webster (especially if he improves his ball-handling) could slide into some minutes af SG, but look!...the blazers have Roy, Jack, and Fernandez playing there!...hmmm.

Just the addition of Oden will have ripple effects on the rotation all the way out to PG.

But as has been mentioned, there are contract issues that may actually have a large effect on the rotation.

I think the very first decision KP is going to have to make is if that cap-space plan is actually that important. If it is, then some hard decisions need to be made this summer.

Jones can, and probably will opt-out. I think he's incredibly valuable to Portland and will be even more valuable with oden playing. His ability to stretch defenses will make it much easier for oden to operate in the low post. So paying him 5 million/year is easily worth it.

Then there are Martell, Frye, and Jack...portland's current 3rd year players. If cap-space in 2009 is a franchise goal, then the blazers will need to extend the contracts of any of those 3 players they intend to keep THIS SUMMER. Going into the 2009 off-season, the cap-holds for those 3 players would be over 26 million dollars. Martell's alone is is 11.3 million.

For instance in martell's case, if he isn't extended this summer, and not traded before the feb 2009 deadline, his 2009 cap-hold of 11.3 million would completely kill portland's cap-space. At that time the only option portland would have is to renounce he rights to him and let him walk. That's not good management.

The same is true of Frye and Jack.

Not enough minutes to go around, and several contract issues that need to be addressed this off-season. The same off-season that will see portland essentially holding the expiring contracts of Lafrentz, Blake, Outlaw, and possibly Jones; and holding the rights to Fernandez, Kaponen, and Freeland; and having several young desirable players under bargain rate contracts; and also holding a mid 1st round pick and three 2nd round picks.

That's a lot of ingredients to be added to an impending minutes squeeze next season. Then you can add a final ingredient: A GM that has proven he's not afraid to make bold moves and is inclined to do them on draft day. He may have set a record for the total number of transactions made in 2 consecutive drafts.

Blazer fans may want to circle the date of the 2008 draft and tune in. It may be a big day for the franchise.

by moldorf on Jan 18, 2008 8:31 AM PST reply actions  

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