JJones vs MWebster

by jamon51 on Jan 1, 2008 5:08 PM PST Comment 24 comments

How long will Nate be able to keep James Jones out of the starting lineup considering how well he is playing and how Martell Webster is slumping? I understand it is good to keep Tell from getting down, but unfortunately the gap seems to be widening between their individual productions.

I'm a big Webster fan, but I think we may see a new insertion in the lineup sometime in the coming weeks.

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I like the idea....

I love Jones. Love him. I think he's a great player. I think this (former) streak has a lot to do with this play.

Problem is: he's awesome with the black unit and he's awesome with the white. It's just where do you think he'll be more awesome? They probably feel his stabilizing influence is more beneficial to Sergio, Jack, and Outlaw than it is to Roy, LMA, and Blake.

But I sure like the notion of really jumping on people in the first quarter with him out there. I'm very, very concerned about Webster in general.

by Fizbin on Jan 1, 2008 5:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Webster will be alright

He's athletic with good hops. Not just a sharpshooter. When he's finally good it'll be because he's developed an all around game, not just because of his 3 pt shooting.

Nature bats last.

by fisheyes on Jan 1, 2008 7:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be concerned ...

He's 21 and still learning.

We're all thrilled with Outlaw right now, but it took him 5 years to get to this place out of high school. I think Martell has several more years of improvement ahead before he hits his full potential at around 24 or 25 years of age ...

That said, I like Jones' game better right now. He's smarter and more skilled at this point. I'd like to see him getting 30+ minutes a game, rather than his current 22.

by bfan on Jan 1, 2008 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really know which should start

But I'm very glad the Blazers have both guys. Normally, when your 3-point shooting specialist is having a cold night, you're screwed. (And all 3-point shooters are streaky.) But the Blazers can simply put the other one in there. THAT'S depth. And I think it actually helps both guys, because they don't feel that if they're off target, the team is in a bind. That takes some of the pressure off.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Jan 1, 2008 5:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I like the rotation as is

Webster has been struggling a bit but he has still been playing well lately. I think keeping him out of the fourth has communicated to him that he is not doing everything he needs to do to keep himself on the floor at crunch time without removing him completely from the rotation.

He is only four games removed from a hot streak that saw him shooting the lights out. His cold streaks have not been as pronounced this year because he is contributing in other ways and his turnovers have been way down lately. I see him getting hot again before I see Jones taking his spot. Why mess with the line-up at this point?

by tssbro on Jan 1, 2008 5:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I like him in the second unit

He takes the offensive pressure off of them, while Martell can be a hustle guy in the first unit. Plus, Blake is shooting the three ball well in the first unit, so it might be a bit redundant.

Also: if the streak and the loss to the Jazz showed us anything, it is that keeping a strong bench is essential. The Jazz beat us with their bench, and we beat everyone else with ours most nights. The first unit has been getting first quarter leads with Martell as well, so I don't know if it would be a net negative if the first unit has already gelled pretty well as is.

I will never waste a beer. There are too many sober kids in India. -Rod Benson

by supremepuntiff on Jan 1, 2008 5:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

One thing about jones

He can't finish anywhere near the rim. I think i've seen him fumble away a couple passes or simply not make close layups. Webster's a better finisher. I like the rotation as it is. Whoever's hot should be the guy getting the minutes, I kind of like Martell Starting since he can finish a little stronger if needed.

by ssa400 on Jan 1, 2008 6:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Webster has the potential to be versatile...

...at the offensive end. He's begun to develop some nice moves off the dribble--something we didn't see last season. By contrast, if you check Jone's lifetime stats, he actually shoots a better percentage from 3-point range than 2-point range. He really seems a bit lost when he receives the ball inside the 3-point line. I cringe when JJ gets the ball anywhere except beyond the arc or unguarded right at the hoop.

Having said that, Jones contributes in multiple ways at both ends--rebounding, defending, supplying veteran leadership, etc. He's proved to be a great pickup.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Jan 1, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also, Jones is not a rebounder

and this team needs rebounders. Per 48 minutes Jones rebounds like most shooting guards (6.3), and at 6'8" he should be doing much better since he plays the SF position. My guess is that he just doesn't like contact, and that's not a knock, that's just who he is and probably why he doesn't finish well and prefers to stay away from the bucket.

by t jay on Jan 2, 2008 12:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's not persuasive

in this particular case.

per48 rebounding for Webster is 6.65 and for Jones it's 6.24.

Less then a half rebound per 48 minutes between the two players isn't significant.

by moldorf on Jan 2, 2008 6:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We've been nothing but...

...sucessful. Until some evidence that a change needs to be made to the rotation, I say leave it alone.
A direct benefit of building with an eye towards character and team culture is James Jones isn't going to be upset, bitter, or a problem if he doesn't start. Nice to have a team with that character.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jan 1, 2008 6:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

With that

100%

by fatwansaboni on Jan 2, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Jones should stay in the white unit

He is the only veteran presence for the white unit, and the calm, steady, veteran force that the Blazers need in that line up.

Why mess with success?

Jones pretty much sets the tone on defense in that unit.

ROTUNDITYDOTNET

by damir on Jan 1, 2008 7:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Keep Martell in the 2nd unit. We need to keep

developing him. He is going to develop into a well rounded player. I would like to see more plays designed for Martell to get him going. 10 attempts per night would be a good amount for right now. Just knowing that your number is being called can help with confidence.

Jones will do equally well in either unit and wants to do whatever is best for the team. What a great move bringing him to the team. KP, you have done it again.

by jferg on Jan 1, 2008 8:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I meant keep Martell in the FIRST unit

by jferg on Jan 1, 2008 8:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Martell is sooo young.

He's growing up very fast, but there's much more development to come. He looks to be the guy in the elite years to come.

He and JJ are great guys to have, but I look at how much Martell has elevated his game in the last year, then project that much more growth in another year or so. And the chemistry right now seems really special; let's let the cake rise.

by ojala on Jan 1, 2008 8:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I also think

That Martell has much, much more to gain from being "the starter" in way of confidence, where James can be just as effective starting or coming off the bench. If this year is truly about development, I have seen plenty from Martell to keep him in this year. There are tons of posts here about young he is, and I think this is the absolute best thing to do for his long term development. His confidence and ability to rebound from shooting slumps will tank if he is constantly worrying about losing playing time to Jones. As much as I would love to see a return to the playoffs this year, I would trade an '08 appearance at the 8th seed for development of the youngest, most potent starting 5 when Oden joins the squad next year. The only scenario I could see with Jones starting would be moving Martell to SG and Jones at the 3 and Roy at point, but I think we would be in trouble with smaller, quicker teams defensively.

by mpressive on Jan 2, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like how it is

And I hope Martell learns some of Jones' all-round savvy. One thing I liked about Jones in PHX is how well he got open-- and I swear I said this when we traded for him, I'm not a guy jumping on his bandwagon now that he's doing well as a Blazer! Please believe me!!! Jones just moves to where he can get the ball, and Webster needs to still get better at that.

Jones fits well with both units, and has been finishing our games. Webster has a lot more potential, but currently Jones is a better version of Webster because of his consistency and experience. It is still important to get Martell minutes and keep his confidence up, plus his play has improved drastically even with the inconsistent offensive production.

You move Jones into the starting lineup and play him 30 mins, you may lose Webster and thus lose a guy coming off the bench with a sweet stroke from 3 land. Also, then you got pretty much all inexperienced young dudes in the second unit, which is what we had before the streak... Jones' consistency and on-court coaching helps much, much more with the 2nd unit than the 1st, and his solid play is better suited to end games with as well.

Again, in short, I like the rotation as is.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jan 2, 2008 1:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The Problem Will Be

one of minutes next season.

Once Oden is playing, it's quite likely that most of the C minutes will go to Oden or Pryzbilla. Considering how weak portland has been at rebounding that's a good thing.

But it means that LMA will be playing almost exclusively at PF. That will limit the backup PF minutes, and with both Outlaw and Frye, it will mean Outlaw will play more at SF. That will limit available minutes for Webster and Jones.

Normally, Webster might be able to relieve the pressure and play some at SG, but it seems likely that next season, SG minutes will be going to Roy, Fernandez and possibly Jack.

Too many players for too few minutes.

Add to that the fact that unless Martell's contract is extended THIS summer, he will go into the 'cap-space' off-season of 2009 as an 11.3 million cap-hold.

Decisions may have to be made about Portland's SF roster, and maybe sooner rather then later.

by moldorf on Jan 2, 2008 7:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Frye

I think he'll end up being the odd-man out in that scenario. Travis has shown he can play the 4 quite well with the second unit.

by DonkeyShins on Jan 2, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

but maybe not.

We've seen Frye's game take major steps forward lately. Not only scoring but rebounding as well. As a matter of fact, frye is rebounding at a better rate then Aldridge.

But assuming LMA plays 35 or so minutes at PF and frye gets a few, then Outlaw will only get 12-15 minutes a game at PF. He's playing 26 minutes now. That would leave Webster and Jones to split 35-38 minutes a game at SF. And that's assuming that niether Roy or fernandez occasionally slide to SF in 'small ball' scenarios.

It's simply not enough minutes for either Jones or Webster to be effective.

by moldorf on Jan 2, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

it is a problem

but it is a good problem to have...

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Jan 2, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we could get some good value

for a Jack-Outlaw package. I could see it moving us up from like a pick at 17 or 18 to 5 or 6 to get Eric Gordon, or offering some team some serious players who have potential and some imediate help if they're tired of projects, and both at very easy to deal with contracts.

My Favorite Non-Blazers: Dwight Howard, Andre Iguodala, Allen Iverson, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'neal, Chris Bosh

by darkhelmit54 on Jan 2, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs