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What's the Difference?

The always-intriguing Idog1976 brought up a semi-facetious, yet very interesting, question in his diary this week.  For those who haven't read (and it's still in the sidebar as we speak) he said, "If people are predicting we're not going to win a ton of games this year why not just toss the season?"  The comparison was to last year where there was an open question whether it was better to hope the Blazers won a bunch or still root for the wins while acknowledging that it was probably better for us to finish poorly and get a higher lottery seed.

WARNING:  That question is NOT the topic of this post.  Have it out in Idog's diary if you wish to take that old argument up again.

So that got me thinking...sarcasm aside, what is the difference between last year and this year, especially for those who believe that we're probably not going to have a winning record yet?  Is there something else tangible to hold onto as a measuring stick besides wins and losses?  I would argue that the case is much stronger for saying "Yes" this year than it was last.  

First of all, though, I'll confess I bias which I've mentioned before but not lately.  I don't believe there's a huge difference between 25 wins and 35 wins.  I don't believe there's a huge difference between 35 and 40 either.  In fact I don't believe there's usually much difference between missing the playoffs and being an 8th seed.  (GASP!) Basically history shows us that teams that fiddle around in the 25-45 win brackets for long tend to stay there.  Only the teams that break out, top 50, and go deeper into the playoffs matter.  And when those break outs happen they tend to happen suddenly and dramatically.  Generally speaking everything other than that is losing.  It's just a matter of when and to whom.  

Nobody in San Antonio, Phoenix, Detroit, Miami, or Cleveland is going to be excited about a 7th or 8th seed for the next two decades or so because they've been good and they know the difference between winning and losing.  Fans and teams that tend to get really excited about the benefits of 37 wins or 8th seeds are betraying that they are following bad teams.

I know there are going to be screams of horror here because, well, we are going to be pretty excited to re-enter the playoffs when it happens.  But that's not because those low seeds are inherently exciting or good.  It's because we've been bad for so long that looks like paradise.  Heck, 40 wins would look like paradise.  (That's two seasons' worth!)  Fair enough, as long as we remember that it's all relative.

I say this to establish that at least in my mind, flat-out winning is not a viable criterion upon which to judge the success or failure of this season for the Blazers.  You can say all you want about 37 or 41 games and signs of progress and confidence and hope.  It still doesn't mean we've succeeded.  More teams make that "progress", gain that confidence, inspire their fans to dreams of glory, and then stall or fall back than actually march on to greatness.  Otherwise Kevin Garnett would still be in Minnesota with rings on his fingers and the Clippers and Warriors would be clear heirs apparent for the NBA crown.

So back to Idog's original question:  if this is true (and I believe it is) why not hope for more losses and thus the possible tangible gain of another high lottery pick?  Why isn't this 2006-07 Part Deux?

It's simple:  this year is all about building the future.  This is not a season of hope, this is a season of definition.  It's about establishing players, plays, relationships, and reputations that will carry us into the eventual success.  

Last season wasn't about that.  If you recall at the beginning of last year we were searching for glimmers of hope.  Maybe Martell will blossom.  Maybe our rookies will be decent.  Maybe Sergio is the bomb.  It was like lighting matches in a dark room.  Stuff would flare up and you could see a little but you didn't have anything substantial to carry the flame.  You knew 30 seconds later you were going to be in the dark and searching around again.  In that environment all you need is help...some kind of candle to sustain the light.  Thus it made sense to say, "Even if we perform at our best we're going to fall way short for the foreseeable future.  What we need is more talent.  Winning and losing are pretty much immaterial at this point so even though I always hope for the Blazers to win I'm going to be OK with them losing and getting a better chance at that talent too."  Without knowing much about Roy and Aldridge, without having a core of players, without even being to rely on a simple game plan most nights because we were horribly overmatched that approach was reasonable.  In that environment we could have lit a hundred matches and it wouldn't have mattered.

This year is different.  We have more talent.  We have more direction.  We have more of a definable future.  Roy and Aldridge are getting more established and are thus more quantifiable.  They have met or exceeded any reasonable expectations of them.  Greg Oden needs no introduction or bona fides.  We have some depth at point guard.  We have some young possibilities in the frontcourt.  It's far from a completed masterpiece but you at least feel you have the tools and raw materials in front of you now.  There are no glimmers of hope here.  The room is lit six or seven times over and it's time to put down the matches and get to work.

The last few years have been kind of like trial runs of a project.  You go out and do your best but you know you're just going to chuck the results when you're done.  Expectations and practices are modified accordingly.  A few rough edges will probably be OK because it's not hanging around for long anyway.  This year the project is for keeps.  It's not going to be done this year...not by a long shot.  But what we start building this year will be the foundation which supports us in the future.  There's a high probability that if (when!) we become great it will be with many of these same names and with more polished versions of the skills and schemes you will see this very season.

The difference will probably be modest in the win-loss column.  It's enormous philosophically however.  Every time these guys discover a play that works or another reason to trust in each other and work together it matters.  That's the future being built now.  Every time they grit out a tough win or ache from a last-second loss it matters.  That's the future being built now.  Every ounce of respect they garner from the referees, every subtle nuance that they pick up from the coaching staff, every defensive stand and clutch free throw and drawn charge and unselfish pass matters.  This team is defining itself a way that frankly it could not a year or two ago.  And these are the things on which the season will be judged.

Things have changed.  I think everybody inside and outside the organization knows it.  What the outcome of that change will be won't be known for a while but its evidence should show up right away.

That right there is the argument why losing, or losing ball, is not beneficial this year in the same way it might have been (wink, wink) in the past.  I don't think we ever intentionally lost. I don't think anyone ever suggested or supported intentionally losing.  But we did benefit from the unintentional losing we did.  We will not benefit the same way this year.  We don't need another lottery pick as much as we need to take this core group of players and establish an identity that will lead us to where we want to go--an identity wrapped up in great basketball and a great commitment to winning that goes even farther and deeper than our talent would otherwise take us.  That's why even if you don't believe this season will herald a dramatic upswing in wins you can say with a straight face, "This season means something."

Though we will probably lose our fair share this year there will be no mixed feelings about it for me this year...no resigned acceptance of "Well, that's just who we are."  We don't need the wins yet but we do need everybody focused on winning and on getting better every moment they're out on the court.  That drive is possible because FINALLY we are in a position to believe that winning is possible...some now and a lot more in the future.

That makes all the difference in the world.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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When an 8th Seed becomes dangerous...
If (and goodness do I mean "IF") we manage to sneak into the postseason as an 8th seed we might not be your typical .500 "one and done" series.  Why?  Team chemistry at just the right time is dangerous (GS is a perfect example...yes, they presented matchup problems for Dallas from the start but look at the streak they rode just to get the 8th).  Sure our chances are more legit in Oden's sophomore season but not one person will deny we have overloaded talent sweating up the Tualatin practice facility and donning Blazer Logos.  What is Portland working on now while the rest of the league vacations for another month?  Chemistry. Feeling one another out, learning to call out "switch" without having to call it out.  Understanding that "Game Point" means Roy at the top of the key with an L.A. screen on the way.  If people don't expect us to shine this year, they surely expect it the next, which I believe would be 83 official games from now, or better put: Game 1 of this year's playoffs :)  To quote Dave, "Every time these guys discover a play that works...That's the future being built now."  Great work Dave.  Solid read.  

by Lou9700 on Sep 8, 2007 3:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Winning
I guess I'm outside looking in on this subject, since I do think a winning season is possible.

by Toast on Sep 8, 2007 7:27 AM PDT reply actions  

easy
other than adding g.oden in reality the blazers traded in getting more talent at the small forward position for capspace in 2009.idog1976 was upset because he did'nt take a wait and see approach. instead he jumped in to all the hysteria of g.oden.then 1 thought suddenly occured to him. #1-there's no buzz about the blazers nationally period.#2-g.oden was celebrated when most of the nba nation expected him to end up in boston.when it did'nt happen you can hear the screams from here to the middle east.#3-it's like since k.garnett was given away to boston,the national media like i predicted dismissed g.oden*k.durant. #4-last but not least when unbiased minds like dave,lord daniel,and myself kept telling people it's going to be a long while before this team get championship good.idog1976 became down.as for fixing games the games are already fixed that's #1.we are talking about the wwe oh i meant the nba.and we are talking about are pride as a franchise.botttom line if you're a goof fan and expect g.oden to win 5 titles it's not happening. and especially if you think the blazers will be champions in 2009.you're in for a serious reality check.now if you're talking 2012-2016 to win at least 1 title that's reality.it's the nba and to prove my point wacth the lakers very closely.the media already is trying to make sure the nba takes care of them like they did the celtics.the reason is simple,the nba do not another 10 years of a boring spur type team winning titles.the blazers are definately going in the spurs direction boring team basketball but effective.the nba the nba media and the bandwagon fans that makes up the nba does'nt want to see a team like the blazers become dominant.and if you belive they do then you're a damn fool.i promise you by opening night either j.o'neal or r.artest or even both will be a laker. think not then you people really don't know how the nba works right dave tell them i'm wrong dave.

by fatty on Sep 8, 2007 7:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Hearts And Minds...and...
WINS!

The energy coming into this season is different. There is optimism (finally). Having been going to EVERY Blazer game I possibly could since 1976 (and at times having to pay to watch them on the big screen at the Paramount)....this season will be very unique.

The first reason is having such bad seasons the last few years. (the only thing that can be done is get better!)

New Players! Anytime there is a group of new players....the "unknown" as it will brings all of our fantasies to light. I love "What if..."

I am a regular reader of everything BLAZER related (Got me some cheap seats for the 2nd season)..and find it amusing how much expectations people put on this player or that player. Last season Dr. Jack said that the best teams have no "true" go-to-guy. Just a team of "one". A team where every player is  a role player. A team where everyone does their job...and (when instructed) does others (mismatches...double teams, etc.).

The Optimism and excitement at the Rose Garden is going to win us close games...(how many COULD/SHOULD we have won last year?). Not having a TRUE go-to-guy will confuse and break down the defenses. We WILL compete with the best of them.AND....WE WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS! (out on a limb now!)

by jameyemail on Sep 8, 2007 7:49 AM PDT reply actions  

dave
1 o the best post you ever written.and i totally agree with you.all i have to say to a lot of the optimist is that by the summer of 2009.if the blazers still did not make the playoffs then i do not want to hear the moaning and groaning from you people.why because a lot of us told you so!!!! whenever you start to change a program around,most logical people take a wait and see approach.the goofs in portland all jumped in the pool and unfortunately will all drown by 2010.dave is right on.you see memphis 3 48 win seasons in a row.but nobody cared in memphis after year 2 of their success and by yer 4 the bottom fell out.they like the blazers had the big lottery ticktet and lost. portland on the other hand won the lottery.but let's see by 2012,if the blazers still did'nt win or even competed for a title will most of you still belive in that winning ticket of 5 years gone by.great post dave.

by fatty on Sep 8, 2007 8:00 AM PDT reply actions  

What's the Difference?
Last year I watched every game broadcast on TV (the Oregon Coast is outside the blackout area), & listen on the radio otherwise. I took my 12 yr. Old daughter to the second Seattle game, because she was in "Nate's Three Point Club" (grade point avg). I chose the second Seattle game, because of the rivalry & the fact they had kicked our butts the first time, so I thought it would be our turn & we had a chance to beat `em. It was a good experience but a sorry a** game. The fans were sparse and the cheering very weak. There wasn't a lot to cheer for, few spectacular plays or a chance to win. A few attempts at a momentum change were the best we had to root for. Players to point out during the warm ups. There's Zack, are best playah, Sergio "Spanish Chocolate" Rodriguez, the "Vanilla Gorilla" he's 7'1.

"I don't believe there's a huge difference between 25 wins and 35 wins.  I don't believe there's a huge difference between 35 and 40 either."

Protecting the "Home Court", most fans don't go to away games.

This is the big difference. If we can turn last years 18-23 home record around, we get a much better experience attending the games. This is where a 40 win season makes a difference. 10 of `em at home. a 28-14 home win season, will be a much more enjoyable experience for us fans.

"You're really making me feel good about myself, little man," says Oden as he starts dancing after scoring a goal. "You better come harder than that."

by BlueBooYay on Sep 8, 2007 8:11 AM PDT reply actions  

We have enough Stars
There is such a thing as to many star players and if you believe the big 3 are all future All Stars, then getting another early pick may not be the right thing.  We have enough youth on this team and the core talent is very high, I do not think that adding another young potential star would help us that much.  If you agree with this then loosing just to get a higher draft brings you limited value.

On the other side, winning as many games as possible creates a culture of success that will carry over to future seasons.  It will also provide a positive enviroment to recruit established role players that can fit into the blazers system, which is more important that getting another talented young player.

The best case situation would be for the Blazers to get the 7th or 8th seed and win a few games so they can get a taste of the playoffs and understand what is required to win.  Playoff experience is going to be critical as they start to make thier run and can do more to accellerate their development than having a high draft pick.

I actually have high hopes for them this year, not just becuase of adding Greg, but getting rid of Zack.  He is the kind of player that makes a bad team better and a good team worse.  He would help win 10 games becuase he can dominate some teams, but the style of play he creates costs you 20 games if you have the talent to win.  With the addition and subtraction we have this year, we have a shot at the playoffs and even if we do not win the series, but we have a good showing, that will do more for this team than any player we could add.

by lonevoiceofreason on Sep 8, 2007 8:19 AM PDT reply actions  

lonevoice is on target
i do not understnad all the pessimism. i'm sounding like a broken record. blazers will make the playoffs this season and go deep next. they are better at the 1, 2(jj as backup), 4 and 5. chemistry will be greatly improved, and the teams in their division have not upgraded as much as they have.

forget tanking. that's a loser's approach.

they're good now and will ber dangerous in 09.

by rburg on Sep 8, 2007 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

i forgot one thing
defense will be their bread and butter and the first (main) reason for their improvement.

by rburg on Sep 8, 2007 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

The "Stars" Aren't Shining Yet
Like every blazer fan, I'm hoping that roy-aldridge-oden all reach all-star level. And that at least one of them  reaches even higher.

But that isn't establised yet. If one of them doesn't 'pan-out' then adding a 4th 'star-potential' player would be good insurance. After all, would it have been better if portland made it to the playoffs this year and got swept or landed Greg Oden?

Of course, the chances of portland getting high enough in the lottery are remote at best. So "planning" on lottery lightning to stike twice is a rather goofy plan.

The cap space plan of KP is a better one. And for a young team, there would be no substitute for playoff experience.

I just disagree that they have a good chance of gaining that experience this year. Just being in the playoff hunt would be a success in my view. Furthermore, it would not only be a great experience for the players (and us), it would also offer an opportunity to evaluate the team and players in a significant circumstance.

The development period will be a few years rather then an off-season.

If portland is competitive next season and the players show progress and continued promise, and then they add Rudy Fernandez and a 10-14 lottery pick, then next summer there would be a more realistic expectation of playoffs the following season.

by moldorf on Sep 8, 2007 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not Sure...
I kept good track of the intent of the post...that won't stop me commenting though!...:)

Count me as one of those that thinks the blazers will most likely struggle this year. I just don't think the playoffs or even a winning record are likely.

There are just far too many questions awaiting answers:

* the "big three"...well, greg oden is a 7' reason for massive blazer optimism. But 1/3 of the season will be completed while he is still a teenager. Will he contribute much offensively? Will he spend most of the year in foul trouble? Will his ability and impact ever come close to matching all the hype?

And while almost all of us believe both Aldridge and Roy will be very good players, just how long will it be before they match our expectations?

And like a dark cloud on the horizon...that may not head this direction...there is the worry about injuries for roy and aldridge. So far, they have simply suffered too many injuries for anyone to say it's just an abberation.

  • and just how good are Frye and Jones? Is Kevin Pritchard right that Frye is much more like the player he was as a rookie then he was last year? Can Jones take Udoka's role of defending good wing players and hitting perimeter shots?

  • will Joel Pryzbilla stay healthy and be the player he was in 2005/06?

  • will Jack and Blake play well enough that Roy won't have to carry the whole backcourt burden? For that matter, which will be the starting PG?

  • and will either Webster or Rodriguez improve substantially? Sergio's play in summer league and the european championships has not been impressive. And he appeared exhausted in the last part of the blazer season, so him playing all summer right after the NBA season doesn't bode well.

And of course, Martell seems equally poised to have a breakout season or be a major bust...which way will he head?

KP keeps using the analogy of "baking a cake". He says it's time to put the cake in the oven and see how it develops. The trouble is, almost all of the ingredients are unproven as cake material, and the few that are, haven't been combined with the other ingredients before. Forget about the cake, we don't even know it the recipe works in the batter.

OK...I don't really like that analogy, but it does crudely illustrate the situation.

Even the things we think we know as "positives" on this very young team aren't truly established. But that's what a season is for, and at least the anticipation of the season is much more entertaining then it's been for years.

If portland ends up in the lottery again, so be it. But hopefully, that will only be the bi-product of an project in it's early stage, then a failure of an experiment.

by moldorf on Sep 8, 2007 8:31 AM PDT reply actions  

moldorf
well said my man well said.i'm curious about just how patient people will be if the ingredients of the cake is cruely wrong.now that would be a bloggers day in heaven.i say by 2010 they'll be a playoff team.by 2012 they should seriously be a title contender by then.

by fatty on Sep 8, 2007 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

and what if you're wrong fatty?
"I immediately regret this decision." RB

by dcblazer on Sep 8, 2007 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

The kids are a year older
I basically agree with everything Dave said.  But while I expect the team to struggle early on as it adjusts to having its "training wheels" (Zach) removed, I expect it to make a serious run at the playoffs in the second half.  That's not just for the reasons other "optimists" have cited, particularly the strengthening of the center and point guard positions (Oden & Blake).  An additional factor I think people are overlooking is that the young Blazers from last season--Roy, Aldridge, Outlaw, Webster, Rodriguez, and Jack--are all a year older and more mature now.  Doc Rivers said the other day that "you win in the NBA with men."  Last season's Blazer youngsters might not quite be men yet, but they're closer now, and therefore I'd expect ALL of them to play incrementally better.  We've already seen glimpses of this improvement in summer league and in last week's practice highlights.  

Spread out over so many players, that improvement should translate into wins.  Maybe not 10 wins--the number the Blazers missed the playoffs by last season.  But remember that the team pulled key players down the stretch when the playoffs were out of reach (and, let's face it, Oden and Durant were not).  Also, there were key injuries to Aldridge and Roy last season.  If the key guys stay healthy this year (always a big if), that also should translate into additional wins.

So while I agree with Dave in the big picture--that this is a season in which progress won't strictly be measured in wins--I disagree with his apparent assumption that making the playoffs is a long shot.  (I'd put it closer to 50/50.)  And gaining playoff experience--even of the four and out variety--is invaluable for an up & coming team like the Blazers.    

by hurryup09 on Sep 8, 2007 10:40 AM PDT reply actions  

Youth and Talent
   The Blazers are in the enviable position of having what I think most people would admit is a great core of  talent. Things changed considerably when we got Oden. Oden, Aldridge and Roy, we have the talent.

   The unquantifiable part of The Blazers is our youth. That means that Oden, Aldridge and Roy could still lose a lot of games. So we still could face a reality of another lottery trip. This upcoming season faces a potentially more talented team, arguably a more talented team, but that talented team probably exists 1-3 years in the future. Kevin Pritchard and The Blazers have made no secret that they are looking at this team making it's big move in 2 years.

  The difference to me, between this year, and last year is that we won Oden. With Oden, the future for The Blazers went from a team hoping Roy and Aldridge develop, and hoping things go right, to a team with the greatest prospect to enter the N.B.A. in a decade. Oden immediately raised the expectations we can all have about The Blazers.

   So I'm all in. I think we already have the pieces. As Dave said, now it's all about development and definition. If we have a season where youth and/or bad luck (some injuries) put us in the lottery again, then fine, of course I will root again for The Blazers  to get the best pick they can get. But this season as opposed to last season, it doesn't matter as much. We have a team young enough to struggle in the short term, but talented enough to become dominating in the long term.  

"I'll see you in hell, but I won't wave."

by Krang on Sep 8, 2007 10:42 AM PDT reply actions  

youth and potential
I don't see any way that the Blazers will make the playoffs -- what the "playoffs" people are saying is "OMG we are so much better we will totally make the playoffs".  The first half of that, "OMG we are so much better" is true.  The sticking point is, better than WHOM?  Let's list the teams in the west this season that should be better than the Blazers (in no particular order):
Dallas
San Antonio
Utah
Denver
Phoenix
Houston
LA Lakers (barring a Kobe trade/blowup)
Golden State

New Orleans also will probably be better than us this year, another young team but further along in the experience side than we are.  The Clippers are also a wild card, but will probably fall apart without Brand.  Even Memphis could surprise.

My point is, yes we have a ton of youth and potential talent, but these young guys are going to take a few years to learn all the tricks of the trade and become consistent winners.  This is not a one-team league -- we're going to have to play teams that have much more talent and skill than us, and we'll lose those games.  That's okay.  We have the tools, but need to develop the skills.  Give our guys at least 2-3 years to grow together and figure that out, and in the meantime KP can work out the kinks in the roster (PG, SF) and prepare to make a run around 2011-2012.  Don't forget, barring injury, we'll have Oden around until like 2021.  That's a pretty big window to get the pieces (and the luck) necessary to build a championship contender.

by kickbrass on Sep 8, 2007 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree except with...
 ..this choice of terms: "We're going to have to play teams that have much more talent and skill than us"....no, I think we will have to play teams with more experience and thus more skill, but when I look at this roster I don't see too many teams in the league with more talent. Just teams with more experience.

   The lack of experience, definition and development could keep us out of the playoffs, but it won't be a lack of talent.

  Plus I guess I'll admit that as a Blazer fan, I harbor the hope that we exceed development expectations and we make the playoffs. A bit of a homer dream, but not totally in the realm of unreachable self dellusion.

"I'll see you in hell, but I won't wave."

by Krang on Sep 8, 2007 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree
we will be playing teams with more experience but most will not be more talented.

I also think that we could get to the playoffs but not much beyond.

by RapidRob on Sep 9, 2007 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Injury factor
Even assuming that all those teams could be expected to be better than the Blazers this season (and the Lakers are a definite question mark), I think you're forgetting the injury factor.  The odds are that out of those 8 teams, one or two will suffer key injuries that will wreck their season.  This happens every year (it's already happened to the Clips with the loss of Brand).

Of course, the Blazers could be the team to suffer key injuries this year.  But statistically speaking, it's more likely that it'll be someone else.

by hurryup09 on Sep 8, 2007 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do not agree with your list
there are four that are almost foresure:

Dallas
San Antonio
Utah
Phoenix

but the remainder are not a sure thing, Denver has some liability becuase I do not like their makeup and my gut says they are one injury away from disaster.  LA barely made it last year and I do not think they have done much to improve themselves, Houstan is strong and should be in, but Golden State was the eigth seed and I think we could be a better team.

Head to head by December we should be better than LA and Golden State, with Denver being a team that I just feel like could implode.

by lonevoiceofreason on Sep 8, 2007 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lone voice right on the mark
I largely agree with his assessment of the 4 of the eight teams that Kickbrass mentioned. There is no doubt that Denver has the potential to melt down. With AI and Melo' playing their first full season together you could have anything from a deep playoff run to a catashtrophic collapse. Melo' and AI feel to similar to co-exist for long without alot of tangible rewards. That would be wins. If they don't have success early or they ever have a signifigant losing streak that could be all she wrote. The egos seem to volatile. I might be in the minority here but I think Blake may not have put up the numbers during his tenure in Denver but I do believe he helped to calm the team down and was a steadying influence in the locker room. I mean isn't that why KP brought him here?

So Denver definitely has some questions to be answered even without raising the spectre of injuries.

L.A. I think is similar to Denver in that they have definite playoff potential and could even compete with the elite int he west. This would be especially possible with the addition of even a modest amount of talent to the team. However, I don't think that's gonna happen.

 People have been talking about how L.A. won't be allowed to sink for long. I disagree they are still doing OK and have recently won rings it wasn't that long ago in NBA time. What's more another team on the rise in the East has been a perennial loser since MJ left until very recently. That team is Chicago and I think it may be possible that Chicago could pull of a deal to bring Kobe to them. I could be horribly wrong about this but my gut says Kobe leaves LA by this time next year. I think they are sick of him now and will hate him by the end of the season. I expect Kobe to make more trade demands if we don't see an Artest or JO level addition to satisfy Kobe. Since I think LA would have pulled the trigger on deals before now if they intended to do that I think LA will keep it's current roster without any major changes before opening day. If I'm right about the lack of changes then Kobe could do literally anything. Whatever he does, it's very unlikely that he will be anything other then a distraction and problem for the team. After his performance on Team USA no one will doubt his ability and willingness to work...in the right situation. LA has however stabbed him square in the back and he won't forget that. One way or the other LA will melt down again this year and I think they will miss the playoffs.

With Golden State it's hard to say. Are they the team of the big streak late last season? The spunky team that knocked down Goliath? Or will we see a return to the old Golden State the perennial losers who don't make the playoffs? It's really hard to say and my shot in the dark is they aren't as good as last year.

Houston will definitely own Portland this year. I hope to steal one game from them. If they stay healthy and by they I mean T-mac, then Houston could even fulfill fatty's fondest hope and dream. I doubt they will get past Phoenix and S.A. let alone Boston or a hungry LeBron but Houston will definitely make the playoffs possibly even in the top 4 seeds. They will definitely be better then Portland barring catastrophic injury and my vote is they go out in the 2nd round or WCF.

Lone forgot someone very important...Memphis. They are gonna be potent this year. Pau Gasol will be brilliant as usual but look for Rudy Gay to really step up this year. Don't think he won't look to Posterize Yi again ( when they go head to head. I also think Juan Carlos Navarro if he is healthy will light it up some nights. Don't forget a young Mike Conley Jr. who has the potential to be a really talented point. I think Memphis also will be better then Portland this year not as dominant as Houston but a hair better then Portland. But this year only.

So where does that leave us?

I think that it's likely that either LA or Denver will keep it together this year but not both. I also think Portland is definitely better then GS this year and definitely worse the Houston and Memphis.

SO here's my thoughts.

1. Phoenix -
They win it all Nash won't be denied.

2. S.A. -
They will be dominant but, hey they never repeat...right? However, if Phoenix doesn't win they will repeat for the first time.

3. Dallas -
A lot of folks will have Dirk's number this year Nellie really got into this guys head in front of a national audience don't think other teams weren't taking notes! They will still be better then most but they left their heart in San Francisco)

4. Utah -
Just too good they might even beat Dallas and take the 3 seed. Portland's nemesis in the coming years.

5. Houston -
Fatty is wrong that they are champs but they ARE winners.

6. Denver -
They hold it together but go out in the first round to Houston

7. Memphis -
Look for a great year by Rudy Gay

8. Portland-
We are better in so many ways. Yes, there remain some obvious weaknesses. We could use a break out season at the 3 from TO or Martell and we need a champion PG. On the other hand: our Defense will be much better, our chemistry will be a 1000x better, our heart will be undeniable and our offense will be a thing of beauty at times with some real frustration at others. All in all, we win more then we lose and take #8 barring some very legitimate concerns about injuries with any of the big three whom have all shown they are not iron men.

October, October, October October, Octo...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Sep 9, 2007 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

another question
What we're looking for is improvement over the course of the year -- the emergence of a team identity on offense and defense and signs that our predictions about Oden, LMA and Roy are coming true. A lot of this is on Nate and the rest of the coaches. Wins and losses don't figure into it at this point. I agree with Dave -- until your team is regularly winning 50, wins are nice but not particularly meaningful.

Another way to frame the question: if you knew that Blazers could win another five games (and maybe get the 8th spot) this year by giving more minutes to Raef and Joel, would you do it? In a way, Pritchard has already sent a possible signal about this by signing Blake. Winning SOME games is important. (It also indicates that he has  doubts about the young PGs.)  I doubt that he'd want to retard the development of LMA, Oden or even Frye by sitting them on the bench, no matter what. But maybe it's not as cut-and-dried obvious as we think -- that approach can run right into the "play to win" ethic you really hope your team believes in!

       

by barryj on Sep 8, 2007 11:06 AM PDT reply actions  

The purpose of acquiring Blake
I don't think the acquisition of Blake signals that the Blazers--at this stage--value wins over developing the youngsters.  It's just that in order for the young BIG men (Oden, Aldridge, & Frye) to develop, they need a point guard who can get them the ball in the right position and at the right time.  

So while I expect Blake to get plenty of minutes, I think Joel and especially Raef will be used exclusively in back-up roles (particularly when the young bigs are in foul trouble).

by hurryup09 on Sep 8, 2007 12:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Getting the #1 draft pick changes everything
I still think the Blazers will lose a ton of games this year and not make the playoffs.  I'm not convinced that if the Blazers played some more of the "veteran" players (LaFrentz, Pryzbilla, James Jones, and Blake) this year that it would translate into winning more games like, arguably, playing Magloire, Udoka, and Randolf [and Roy and Jack] did last year.

While I'm not suggesting that the Blazers should deliberately tank to get back into the lottery, I am suggesting that they play the young guys more and have them jell as a team.  Not that I want to see another 60-loss season again, but I think it's important to see players develop on the floor as a team and see if potential comes to fruition.  Since we lucked out and got the number one pick, I'd like to see the Blazers take the plunge and build around Oden -- and see if the "potential" blooms for Aldridge, Outlaw, Webster, and Rodriquez. Don't play Roy to death or injury and allow the steadying hands of Blake and Jack, but take the approach that is "the team of the future" now and don't overplay veterans now to gain 5 more wins.

It certainly seems like the Blazers are embarking on a "play youth" imperative since grabbing Oden, trading Zack, and electing to pass on Udoka.  It looks like there might be 4 new starters (3 almost certainly) this year and it will test Nate's resolve/patience/capacity to see how much the young guys will play.  Fans like me may well say "play the young guys; wins don't matter that much," but coaches get hired/fired/remembered for their won/lost records.  Plus there are owners who are working on "broken financial models" who want asses in seats, wins, and championship banners flying.  I want those things too, but think this coming year will be developmental not actualized.

by vcubed on Sep 8, 2007 1:36 PM PDT reply actions  

Aways play to win
My feeling is the coach should always play to win, if you want to develop the young guys then stick the vets on the IR, but never ask a coach to do anything but win.  It is a bad habit and is never a good move.

by lonevoiceofreason on Sep 8, 2007 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Problem
The problem with throwing young guys out on the court and "developing players" is that they can get used to losing.  They will hopefully learn by watching the veterans (if we have any that will see significant time) work to win and stepping up when they get their chances.
You play to win the games.  You don't develop a winning culture by playing to get a lottery pick and develop young talent.

by tssbro on Sep 8, 2007 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is why the blazers will be better...
Zach Randolph, who was that guy anyway.  Some people point to his 23 and 10 and say he should be an all star.  Its too bad they dont have accurate stats to measure defense, because Zach's numbers would be embarrasing.  Did he really even help our team??  I see him as a player that has to take away from his teamates game to get his own game off.  Brandon Roy, for example, is the complete opposite.  He knows how to break down a defense and find the open man, zach could not do this.  Has anyone noticed that the season we turned Zach into our main power forward, was also the season that we first missed the playoffs?  The next 4 years of the Zach era only got uglier and uglier, until, a rookie named Roy came along and turned the tides.  Zach did not help this team, he hurt it.  Zach's 23 points per game came at the expense of his teamates.  I am not going to miss him at all, Oden could average 7 and 5 and still help his teamates by simply being on the floor.  Zach's presence hurt his teamates, they had to cover for him defensively and he never passed out of a double team or knew how to setup his teamates offensively.  I am calling a Oden for Zach trade(hypothetically) an improvement, Oden will help his teamates, zach did not.  The numbers obviously wont be the same, but we have more than enough players that will pick up their points and rebounds per game(aldridge really sticks out) to fill the numbers hole that zach left.  For me, its defenitely a case of addition by subtraction, a ham sandwich would have been an upgrade over Zach.

and there is these factors as well:

-roy will be better
-aldridge will be better
-trout will be better
-webster will be better
-jack will be better
-Joel will hopefully be healthy
-added blake
-added frye
-added jones
-added injury depth(green, mcrob,still have Joel, Raef, Sergio)

Our team is young, nobody is taking a step back this year, unless its their minutes played, but not skill wise.  The loss of Zach will result in something that we havent seen in a while, team chemistry.

by myemic23 on Sep 8, 2007 3:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Agreed
In fairness, Zach does have a knack for putting the ball in the hoop with guys all over him.  That capability gave the Blazers a consistent low-post option.  

But while I expect the Blazers to miss that aspect of Zach's offensive game early in the season, they should soon develop other "go-to" options.  Ultimately that'll make the team far less one-dimensional.  That's why I referred to Zach as the team's "training wheels."

And come on: with Oden and Aldridge replacing Magliore and Zach in the power positions, you know this squad is going to be blocking and intimidating shots and getting out on the break.  The days of the Blazers trailing the league in fast break points are certainly over.  That's huge.

by hurryup09 on Sep 8, 2007 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

dittos to myemic and hurryup
good points by both... blazers will be dangerous in the second half.... AND make the playoffs.... as over 50% of dave's poll responders believe.

by rburg on Sep 9, 2007 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dave's Post
I appreciate the post Dave and think you nailed it on the head.  You scared me in the middle there but you finished strong.  That is exactly why you don't throw away wins.  The goal is to build a culture of winning and that isn't just about getting rid of negative influences but it is about reinforcing the positive ones.  I can't say it any better than you did.

 

by tssbro on Sep 8, 2007 4:41 PM PDT reply actions  

As I re-read the middle part
here's a simpler way to put it:

Even IF the most favorable predictions come true and we make the lowest end of the playoffs it doesn't mean as much as people think.  The 8th seed is only something to crow about because we've been bad so long.  That's not the barometer of how well the season goes.  It would just be icing on the cake.  Nice icing, to be sure, but just icing.  The cake itself will still be just fine if we only win 35, 38, or 40 and miss the playoffs.  The "cake" in this case is all that other stuff I talked about.  As long as we do that stuff win totals don't matter quite so much.  (But really as long as we do that stuff we should win more too.)

Again, this is in direct contrast to earlier seasons where no matter what we did there wasn't going to be a cake at all.  We were lucky if we got to lick the bowl.

--Dave

by Dave on Sep 8, 2007 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Playoffs more than icing
I should begin this reply by saying that last season I made the same basic argument with my friends that you're now making: that there is limited value in making the playoffs if you're likely to be swept in the first round.  However, I do think there's an argument to be made that making the playoffs this year would be more than just "icing on the cake."  

As we all know, playoff basketball is very different than the regular season game.  You could almost say it's a different game entirely: much more intense & physical, and consequently officiated differently.  More than once I've often heard players and coaches say that it doesn't matter how much you try to prepare yourself for playoff ball; you have to experience it to understand it.

As a result, with almost no exceptions, teams have to experience failure in the playoffs--often in 4 blowout losses--before they can begin to truly contend.  And that's the value in getting a young team's first playoff experience out of the way as soon as possible.  Only with playoff experience under their belt will they have a clear idea of what it'll take for them to win a championship.  

OK, I can hear some of you saying, "What about the '76 Blazers?"  It's true: that team went the distance in their first playoff go-round.  But that was really a fluke, because the team had come close the two previous years (winning 38 and 37 games), then got a major influx of seasoned talent (especially Maurice Lucas) in '76.  That was a rare circumstance made possible by the existence of the ABA.

A more typical example of playoff dues-paying is my childhood team, the Warriors.  After missing the playoffs in '69 (30 wins), they lost in the conference semifinals two years in a row, missed the playoffs again in '73 (44 wins), then won it all in '74.  How about the Sonics?  They lost in the conference semis in '74 and '75 (winning 43 games each season), lost in the finals in '77 (47 wins), then broke thru in '78 after winning 52 games.

So while it's far from critical that the Blazers make the playoffs this season, in all likelihood that accomplishment would accelerate the team's march towards the promised land.

by hurryup09 on Sep 9, 2007 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Let them eat cake...
Getting Oden has changed my outlook. Last season I found myself fighting the urge to root all out for as many wins as possible, vs. knowing we were heading towards a reportedly deep draft and wanting us to get as good a pick as possible. Somehow, I think I had a psyhic feeling, I just wanted The Blazers to have a shot at Oden and Durant. But even with Brandons R.O.Y performance, and the emergence of Aldridge, I still wanted The Blazers to get another great draft pick, because I felt we still needed to add talent. We beat the odds of course, and got Oden. Now things have changed.

   That change means that what making the playoffs would mean has also changed. Making the playoffs next season would be more than just icing on a cake. Making the playoffs next year would likely mean:

  1. We had a healthy year for the majority of players.

  2. Development of our youth is progressing well, Oden, Aldridge and Roy would all have to be contributing at or above expectations.

  3. Likely our bench, with Sergio, Pryz, Frye, Green is also contributing well.

  4. The team has gone a long way towards creating a competitive and consistent team identity. We are likely winning more home games.

   This is all speculation. But this is "The Difference"...this is why this season I'm rooting more for success, with more hope for the playoffs and less of an eye on the next draft. It is also likely with a team as young as we are, that all things do not go "perfectly", and that predictable or unpredictable things happen. It is quite possible at seasons end we are again a lottery team. But in simplest terms, last year and in previous years I felt we "had" to be a lottery team to get better and add talent. This season and as we go forward, I no longer feel we have to add "great" talent in the draft. We have our core. So now, I say, Let them eat cake!  
"I'll see you in hell, but I won't wave."

by Krang on Sep 9, 2007 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm
I've got to agree with hurryup on this.  Making the playoffs this year would be a huge step towards a future run at a championship.  The confidence and trust amongst teammates would receive a major boost even if they lost in the first round.  (That may be what you mean by icing though.)  

If Denver was the eight seed and got swept out, they would be better off not making the playoffs.  Their next step should be winning in the first round.  If they fall back, they might as well free fall.

That being said, I don't disagree with you that it would not be a major setback if the Blazers didn't make the playoffs.  Some of that would depend on how they didn't make it though.  I might be a tad worried if they didn't suffer any major injuries this year and only won 25 games.

by tssbro on Sep 9, 2007 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well put MYEMIC
The Knick fan base will turn on Z-Bo soon enough.  As for Portland, when an entire city is happy to see a 23/10 player go there was a problem.  I thought we actually played better overall ball with Z-Bo on the IL at the end of last season.

by Lou9700 on Sep 8, 2007 4:46 PM PDT reply actions  

as long as
zbo puts up 23-12 which he will easily do in the e.conference nyc will love zbo.this is not portland where the slightest of stripclub sightings are reportedand by the way zbo seriously has been seen at plenty of gentlemen's clubs in nyc.and he's loving it here trust me he'll be just fine.

by fatty on Sep 9, 2007 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not just the strip clubs
I thought Zach played with a lot of heart when it related directly to his stat line.  If he had shown half the heart on the defensive end as he did on the offensive end, he would have been a better defender and a better team player.
Also, directly related to the stat issue, how many times did Zach get an offensive rebound with a Blazer lead and less than 24 seconds on the shot clock and go up for a shot instead of passing out to run out the clock?  At least three times last year. And for the record, he missed all three times.  (I can't give you the games but if I had access to video and the time, I could find them.)
They may win with him in the Eastern Confernece but I am glad to see him go and I would wager that he will split fans down the middle just like he did here.  

by tssbro on Sep 9, 2007 11:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

IFs
Every team has a list of "ifs" that must come true for them to be considered a contender.  Some likely, some remote, some downright impossible.  If Garnett and Pierce click.  If Orlando can add another inside scorer.  If Houston can find a stopper at PG...etc.  Pre May 22nd, the Blazer "ifs" were: If Webster develops into Glen Rick.  If Sergio can own the floor.  If Zach can develop Karl Malone's passing ability.  A lot of stuff would have to go perfectly in order for the Blazers to be considered anything but an NBA also-ran.

When our ping pong ball came up #1, that list was shortened to:  If the big three can stay healthy.  If Pritchard can add some glue guys.  If no major players become total busts.

When the list gets short and probable, expectations go up.  You are expected to win.  That's the greatest gift of this off season.  It's not Oden; it's the full, realistic expectation that we're going to be good.  Maybe not this year, but soon.  Success is more likely when smart, pragmatic people believe in you and expect you to be successful.  Couple this expectation with players with aptitude for winning basketball play (Roy and Oden) and something special is brewing.  That's the difference between this season and last.

by Engineering Problem on Sep 8, 2007 8:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Dave - Good analysis
My key is that the players - all 15 - earn their minutes. Too many here assume that the young guys will play because they need the experience. That is not who Coach McMillan is. I think he will play the best players every game. They earn those minutes by getting better and proving it head-to-head in practice. There have been years here where our second team could not win a quarter against any team's starters no matter what. Those years our starters did not get pushed in practice and did not perform well in games. Learning to win starts with earning the right to play. What we earn has more value than what is given to us. There is plenty of depth in this team to push each other to get better ever week.

As for the record I could care less. So long as the best players are playing as hard as they can and they are learning and growing as individuals and as a team I am happy this year and next. The results should at least show after 2 years and maybe much sooner. I agree that we do not need to add players next year as of now. I even think next year's 1st round pick and maybe all the picks will be foreign players that we can stash for another year or two. Getting Rudy and Petteri and maybe Joel here next year would be stretching this roster greatly. Another lottery pick is not critical.

by lee3022 on Sep 8, 2007 10:58 PM PDT reply actions  

Great job Dave
You know, I always enjoy talking smack, but I come to this site for levity, brevity and opinion..ity. Just wanted to say thanks to all you guys for great posts and I agree with the above post, your best post ever Dave! I expect big things next season, only because I am optimistic, bu if it doesn't happen, eh, as long as there is a measure of success. Plus, as a new season ticket holder and being a 24 year old UO student (I like to drvie apparently) I now know that my money is not going to waste. These guys and, in some cases, boys, have showed me they care not about CTC, but about the town, their rep, and most importantly, each other. This season means a return to the days of Bust a Bucket. Not the winning in particular, but the effort, the care and the passion. These young guys have showed they care about winning and, after reading the diary/post about Roy's charity aspirations, I now firmly and unequiviocally believe that this is once again my team. Go Blazers, go Dave, and go commenters. Great job again everyone.
Hate the game, not the player.

by Rodendridge on Sep 8, 2007 11:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Great Post

Dave made some fantastic points in his post and I thought it was a great entry. I was never seriously proposing tanking but rather trying to point out that while our expectations as analysts might be that we have a sub .500 season, our expectations as fans should always be to expect the best performance possible out of our team. The Blazers may very well miss the playoffs this year due to lack of experience or injuries down the stretch.

Knowing that other teams have more experience and  that "Men win games" Shouldn't ignore the fact that this team has the talent and I believe the will to make it into the playoffs this season. That I think is the key to the question of whether we think the blazers CAN make the playoffs or not. The question of whether they WILL make the playoffs will be decided over a brutal 82 game season. The ability is there, the will is there, the question is how do we handle pressure and can we stay healthy?

I have to disagree with the thought that making the playoffs didn't matter until you are backed by 50 wins of momentum. While I think that is true of a championship team - it is only true during the season they win it all.

 In the seasons leading up to your title runs  even brief entries into the playoffs net invaluable experience. How many times did Larry Bird or Joe Dumars deny MJ before he won it all? Not to compare this team in any way to the legendary Bulls with MJ et al. However, I think it shows that a few low 40 win seasons can make a HUGE difference in your ability to develop young talent. This is precisely why I am so hopeful that the Blazers manage to secure a low seed. Not only do I think it's possible but I think it will happen. These guys can taste the destiny in the air and I think they know that the REAL NBA season starts on game 83. I also think they really want to play in THAT season.

October, October, October October, Octo...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Sep 9, 2007 3:03 AM PDT reply actions  

don't be
disappointed if they finish 36-46 now.

by fatty on Sep 9, 2007 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's basically the same range
I expect them to finish in. I would be just as shocked as you if they got more then 46 wins. I think they will get 43 barring injuries to the big three. There are a lot of reasons for this. Briefly, the team is vastly better I know you know in your heart fatty that they are significantly improved over last years squad. Your correct thus far grim outlook on the 3 could turn out to be correct but I do not think it will matter. Our interior defense is an absolutely amazing building block for Nate. One that he will recognize for the cornerstone that it is and will build his championship Cathedral upon it. They will run more then last year and they will also be at least as competent in the half court but, I predict they will significantly improve in that department.

 I also think the West is much, much weaker then last year. While the Titans at the top Utah, S.A., Phoenix, Dallas and Houston have stayed roughly the same or in Houstons case improved, the rest of the conference is just not the same as last year. Only Memphis really sticks out to me as having improved anywhere near as much as Portland this summer. Many teams in the west have traded away their cores or been hobbled by injuries (Clips). The East is looking far more competitive then it has been for years due to picking up so much Western Talent. When all is said and done I think they will hit right around .500 and I think a hair above. They will bow out in four but learn things that can only be taught in the playoffs.

October, October, October October, Octo...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Sep 9, 2007 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

"You play to win the game."
When I was in school, I studied/crammed for tests in an attempt to get an "A."  If I fell short of my goal, I normally at least got a "B" or a "C."  Both are passing grades.  If my goal was a "C" and I fell short of my goal, then I failed.  There were classes that I knew I was going to get a "C" but I still tried for an "A."

With that thought process, I expect the goal of this team is to win a championship.  I hope Nate is not saying, "Our goal is to win 36 games this year."  

If they shoot for the #1 seed and miss it, they can still make the #8.  If the just hope to get the #8 and they fall short, then they do not make the playoffs and can be back in the lottery.

I know what is said here is not what Nate will tell the team.  But I still apply my goals for my team like my test taking goals.  

Plan/hope for the best, and expect/prepare for the worse.  

If I had an extra hug, I would give it to you.

by tominhawaii on Sep 10, 2007 3:14 PM PDT reply actions  

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