Darius Miles...2nd chance?

by porterfan30 on Sep 24, 2007 9:07 AM PDT Comment 23 comments

Darius has been a problem in the past... big problems with Cheeks, mentioned in off-court episodes with Zbo, a me-first attitude, not what you would call hard-working, had to be removed from the practice facility last year, and ballooning over 250 lbs.
He has had his high moments as well, there was the season (not sure which year but you probably know which one because there was such a difference) where he was playing well and trying to be the leader of this team and he did a great job of that for about a third of the season.
Now there is talk about how he has slimmed down to under 225 and is working hard and wants to be part of this team. Here lies my question: What would Darius have to do and how long would he have to do it before you would trust him and maybe even believe he is our answer to the missing 3 question? If he did everything right, how long would he have to do that before you would stop expecting the Old Miles?

Poll

What would Miles have to do to be trusted again?

I trust him now, he is a part of our future.

11 votes

I'll be supporting him after 20 games if things go right.

28 votes

All-Star Break... if he keeps his nose clean & works hard.

37 votes

Going into next season

29 votes

2 years of good behavior

28 votes

I trust him now...I trust he will always be a mistake.

18 votes

151 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 23 comments

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Comments

I think Darius the human being is a good person.

I'm hoping that Darius the ball player returns. I think all signs are suggesting that Darius has been working hard to get in shape, and has continued to help the community along the way. I will not tolerate a return of the Cheeks outburst or anything on par with that. I feel and have felt that Darius was less of a cancer to the team than Stat-Bo was. Do I trust him now? I trust that he's working to be a contributor. He's not taking the lazy man's route and trying to achieve medical retirement. Is he part of our future? I have no idea, we haven't seen if how his knee surgery has panned out since he hasn't hit the court once, so just because I trust that he's working hard to be part of the team doesn't mean he still has the abilities to do so. He's been out for a long, long time. If he can play he's likely a piece of our future, at least for a few years. On the other hand if all he can do is get in shape (but is just a shell of the player he was starting to become) he won't have a spot on this team other than riding the bench. Nate will reward effort coupled with ability.

by drawingjeremy on Sep 24, 2007 9:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Give Big D

a 2nd chance. You gotta pay the fella anyways, so you might as well.

Some people mature. He seems like a really, really go guy with a huge humanity upside. Let's see how it pans out. Besides, from what I have heard on Courtside, it may not be until after the All-Star Break until he is able to play.

Ball Don't Lie

by bothteamsplayedhard on Sep 24, 2007 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The fact of the matter is

if he does come back, we as a city should try to see what he can offer us. He is not a threat to the behavior of the other guys at all, as they all seem more than committed to being admirable people. Plus, for his faults, he has also done a lot to show he isn't all bad. Plus, he has FREAKISH athletic ability, or at least did before surgery. If he comes back with this much hard work and shows a willingness to play hard in a team setting, why wouldn't we give him a shot? Finally, we have no choice. We might as well see what our millions are getting us, and if he plays great but doesn't fit in worse case scenario we could trade him after he proves himself to the league again, and if he doesn't, he comes off the books in 09.

by mark twain on Sep 24, 2007 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Um and I might be wrong here

but I thought Darius was on the books until at least 2010 if not 2011. Isn't that part of the problem? His contract doesn't expire FOREVER!

October, October, October, October, October...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Sep 24, 2007 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Go to hoopshype for your salary questions..

Darius is on contract for 3 more years. As far as I can tell, hoopshype has the most accurate and up to date salary information, here is the link:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Sep 24, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Typically they are...

however they're patently wrong about Josh McRoberts' deal. He's guaranteed through 08-09, not just 07-08.

- Sam

by Samuelson on Sep 24, 2007 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't matter what I think.

It's what McMillan thinks that counts.

by timg56 on Sep 24, 2007 11:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What about you as a fan?

I know Nate is the one calling his number to get in the game... but will you trust, root, support, feel any loyalty to #23?

by porterfan30 on Sep 24, 2007 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he contributes to the team's success

I will root for him. If he beats out Jones, Outlaw, Webster, etc for minutes, I'm fine with that. I'm not an NBA coach. I trust Nate's judgement. If, in my opinion, Miles is playing and it "appears" he is hurting the team, I'm going to assume he's playing to help Pritchard's chances of trading him.

It's just like I don't care if Blake or Jack starts at PG. I'm a big fan of Blake, but I'm a bigger fan of the team. I also don't care if Outlaw or Jones starts at SF. McMillan is getting paid good money to make those decisions.

by timg56 on Sep 24, 2007 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adversity

Sometimes a little adversity is what a guy needs to get focused and attain his potential. I was listening to Darius in an interview last week, and he was talking about how, if you really want to play basketball, you put in the work to get back. I got the distinct impression that he didn't realize how much he wanted to play basketball until he couldn't do it any longer.

Darius has been working hard to get back. That much is clear now. The knock on Darius has long been that he hasn't worked hard enough to cash in on that potential. Maybe this work ethic spills over into his normal basketball activities. Maybe he comes back not only physically near where he was when he got hurt, but with a mindset that allows him to leverage those physical gifts. It certainly isn't going to hurt any of us to let him try.

Darius has never really seemed like a bad guy to me. He has done some stupid, stupid things. But at heart I think he's a good person. I don't have a problem at all with giving him a second chance.

by HarryManback on Sep 24, 2007 11:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Just for the record..

Isn't this about Darius Miles 5th or 6th chance? Going back through his whole career? Sure, I think everyone deserves a chance to redeem themselves, why not?

But when would I trust Miles? Probably never. Unfortunately while I'd be happy to see him come back, play well and demonstrate he's really changed. He'd have to prove it to me constantly and ongoing. Like an "recovered" alcoholic. As long as your not drinking fine, but all it takes is a relapse.

Give Miles a second chance? Sure. Trust him? He's gotta earn it. It would take quite a arc of time before I could lower my guard as far as trusting that Miles had actually changed.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Sep 24, 2007 12:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Trust... and FT%

I've always found FT% as a fantastic indication of how hard a non-'big man' works in the offseason. I don't have a specific stat to back it up, but I would put a large amount of money on the fact that players who play PG, SG and SF typically improve at the charity stripe if they play in the NBA for a number of years.

It's clear that Miles hasn't dedicated himself on any level to getting better at this, however.

19yo: 52.1%
20yo: 62.0%
21yo: 59.4%
22yo: 54.2%/CLE; 70.2%/POR (Contract push, IMO)
23yo: 60.0%
24yo: 53.4%
25yo: No Data
26yo: ?

In fact, if you take all players since 00-01 (Darius' rookie year) who shoot at least 3 FTs a game (which shows that the skill would be valuable enough to spend offseason time working on it), Miles is the 3rd worst FT shooter in the league behind only Ben Wallace and Shaquille O'Neal (both reknown for their awful FT%).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/stats_search.cgi?req=1&sum=1&type=per_g&min=48&am p;from_year=2001&to_year=2006&lg1=NBA&franch=&from_season=1&to_season=-1&fro m_draft=1947&to_draft=2006&draft_round=&draft_pick=&draft_franch=&from_age=0& ;to_age=99&min_height=0&max_height=99&active=&hof=&pos=&c1stat=FTA&c1com p=gt&c1val=3.0&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=0&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=0&c 4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=0&sortby=FTP&sortby_asc=1&layout=full
His most recent season was particularly poor. He was second only to Shaq among players who logged over 40 games and shot over 4 FTs per game. So not only was he shooting poorly... he was shooting poorly AND getting to the line at a high clip (63rd in the league).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/stats_search.cgi?req=1&sum=0&type=per_g&min=48&am p;from_year=2006&to_year=2006&lg1=NBA&lg2=BAA&lg3=ABA&franch=&from_season=1& amp;to_season=-1&from_draft=1947&to_draft=2006&draft_round=&draft_pick=&draft_fr anch=&from_age=0&to_age=99&min_height=0&max_height=99&active=&hof=&pos=& amp;c1stat=FTA&c1comp=gt&c1val=4.1&c2stat=G&c2comp=gt&c2val=40&c3stat=&c 3comp=gt&c3val=0&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=0&sortby=FTP&sortby_asc=1&layou t=full

Becoming a better 3PT shooter requires good elevation and an ability to get open and spread the floor.

Learning how to rebound better requires a certain amount of physical skill and an ability to see the floor spacially at speed (see: Dennis Rodman).

But FT shooting? If you're not a big man and aren't hindered by those seemingly common physical limitations (gigantic hands, inability to spring out of a crouch, poor 'touch'), you should be able to practice and become at least average.

Miles simply hasn't... and if he hasn't shown a commitment to doing that, I can't see him showing a commitment to improving at some of the more complex areas of basketball...

It's too bad, too. He's one of the more gifted specimens in the league.

- Sam

by Samuelson on Sep 24, 2007 2:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

interesting

that is an interesting point of FT% to work ethic

by porterfan30 on Sep 24, 2007 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting points about his free throw shooting

Becoming a better 3pt shooter though doesn't really require any improvement in elevation. It seems like the best are those that have 3 pt set shot down like Bird.

by jayjaylbh on Sep 24, 2007 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Questionable work ethic and desire

have been linked to Darius for most of his career to date. The lack of focus or interest seemed to be all that kept him from realizing his enormous potential. It could also expain the free throw shooting percentage.

But this is his first major injury, and as Harry Manback points out in the post above, sometimes adversity leads to dramatic changes of attitude and maturity. Apparently Darius is working hard to come back from his injury. He says he really wants to play again. All descriptions of this injury note that successful recovery requires focus and discipline that haven't been Darius trademarks in prior years.

We all know he gets paid either way. The Darius of two years ago would surprise no one by just walking away and collecting his checks. It would have been hard to find a fan on this forum six months ago who would have predicted Darius to make the effort it takes to recover from this injury.

It would be great from every perspective if Darius becomes a success story. Paul Allen gets the satisfaction of seeing his faith in Darius rewarded, the team gets a talented contributor at SF, we as fans can enjoy the show Darius is capable of providing, and most of all Darius gets the satisfaction and personal growth giant steps that come with successfully overcoming major adversity. Coming back from this would be a huge and positively defining event in the course of his life.

by bbfred on Sep 24, 2007 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

very important point

because even darius was playing his best (which i think was briefly for the blazers) he was a terrible free throw shooter -- and yet his best attribute is his ability to drive to the hole. so although he looked good, how much his play turned into actual WINS was debatable.

another problem was that he was averaging something like 4 turnovers a game.

now, he's had a long time to think things over, and if he's worked on his fts and his shooting in general he might be able to maximize his talents, but there are serious reasons why some of us are taking at best a "wait and see" attitude.

ignacio

by ignacio on Sep 25, 2007 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is time to give him a second chance

In fact I wrote an article about the very subject today at Blazerspost.com. Give it a read if you have a spare second and let me know what you think

Chris

by creed on Sep 24, 2007 4:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think trust plays a part

for the fans. We fall into the trap of thinking we are the GM (or should be) but it is the GM that has to determine trust. Support - yes. Am I supporting Darius in hopes that he will be a positive force for the team? Yes, guardedly for the moment. There is too much history to ignore. Do I think he might be changed from surgery rehab and by the new team culture? Yes, he might be. I will watch with interest as the year plays out. In professional sports the mantra is what are you doing for the team now? So long as KP thinks that Darius is contributing then Darius has my support. When that changes I believe KP will eliminate the problem as he has done with Francis. I am glad I am not the GM (you should be too) so I don't have to make the trust call.

by lee3022 on Sep 24, 2007 7:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Depends on what you mean by "chance"

Chance to be a part of the team? Sure...no choice. He's signed and he's not going to be tradeable. Chance to rise higher in the court of public opinion? I would say that other than the Cheeks incident he hasn't done much off the court to merit how people despise him. I think if and when he does come back it will be all quiet on that front. Chance to bounce back in his career? Sure, he's got it, but I'm not counting on him. As several people have mentioned his work ethic and dedication have been the biggest questions dogging him throughout his career. I could see a short-term upswing but it will be a long time before I trust him in that area. Chance to resume his starting role and major minutes and to become a focal point of the team? No. He has to earn that.

--Dave

by Dave on Sep 25, 2007 1:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

darius is two years older

i was wondering if anyone else has the potentiial to mature besides me and hopefully mr miles.....i mean weve all evolved...darius is a part of the team and tied into the salary cap..lets put the positive mojo on him and let him do his thing in a blazer uniform...... mr allen has already invested in him and thrown away more money on other endevours pertaining to our blazers than 99.9% of all blazer edgers put to gether will ever see...lets support mr allen and miles....go blazers

if it can be conceived it can be achieved

by lyfefindsaway on Sep 25, 2007 6:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes

This is exactly how I feel. Every sentence of it. I don't see the point of ripping the guy apart when all his publicity lately has been positive and there's potential that he could solve our problem at SF. With Oden out for the year, this would be the perfect time for him to come back and re-establish himself as part of this team.

As lyfe points out, PA has invested alot in Miles. It's also no secret that we need someone to step up at the SF position. While I realize it may be too early for some fans to trust him again, that shouldn't stop us from rooting for his improvement as a player and a person.

"I just went thru your comments and they are of pulitzer prize consideration." -lyfefindsaway

by bocious on Sep 25, 2007 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He did have a bum knee

I'm not a Darius fan; there's just no excuse for going off on a coach the way he did that time. But I do question some of the "dogging it" criticism DM received when he was playing hurt. Anyone who's ever played on a bum knee can tell you that when your knee is bad, you just can't go.

As for Miles' attitude, by most accounts he isn't really a bad guy. He strikes me as more of a follower than a leader. With Roy, Aldridge, et al leading the way, I'd expect Miles to fall in line. Who wouldn't want to be a part of all the excitement surrounding the Blazers these days?

So while I'm not going to "trust" Miles anytime soon, I'm trying to keep an open mind. Even at 100%, Miles wouldn't be the answer at the starting small forward slot for the Blazers. His outside and free-throw shooting are too unreliable. But at 75%, Miles could certainly contribute. If you'd asked me a month ago if that was possible, I'd have said no way. But after hearing the recent reports about Miles working hard on his rehab, plus listening to his interview from the other day, I'm now inclined to think it's going to happen (if after the All-Star break). If nothing else, a productive Darius Miles would be a trade-able Darius Miles...

by hurryup09 on Sep 25, 2007 8:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I may be dissolving...nt

"Oooohmm Baba Dunk Ramm GOden . Change your perspective, DO IT, naturally or w/help, you are left to your own devices for obtaining this state of mind."

by BlueBooYay on Sep 25, 2007 9:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs