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Oden thoughts - 10 days post-microfracture

With Greg's surgery 10 days behind us, the shock has begun to wear off.  There has been so much speculation and analysis that it's tough to come up with anything new to add.  Here's a try.

No one knows quite what to expect from a post-microfracture Oden.  Will he be 100%?  90%?  50%?  Let's break down what a 50% Oden might look like.  He would lose some leg strength, but would likely be able to hold his post position well on both ends of the court.  His width, height, and reactions would allow him to frustrate other elite post players and he would still be able to block shots on his own man.  Weak side shot blocking would be confined to areas closer to the hoop.  He would lose some ability to guard out at the free throw line, using his supreme quickness to recover and block the shot of a cutter.  Ten boards a game isn't a stretch, given his bulk, quickness, and skill on the defensive glass.  With the possible inability to make quick, decisive power moves, his offense would suffer.  He could end up with the post game of a Brad Dougherty rather than a Shaq.  Greg has shown an advanced basketball IQ thus far and could be someone who benefits an offense just by touching the ball.  That won't go away.  A 50% Oden is still a top five NBA center and would receive all-star consideration.  He would average 60 games played a year until around age 29, when his effectiveness would begin to deteriorate due to knee wear and tear.

Since Greg's never played in the league, I'm not sure we'd definitively know the difference between a 75% Oden and a 100% Oden.  At 75%, he would be a dominant weak side shot blocker and could average 11 or 12 boards.  His ability to recover defensively would be solid enough to allow the team to opportunistically press.  We wouldn't see as many "wow" blocks, but the intimidation factor wouldn't be hugely diminished.  At 75%, Oden's currently undeveloped post skills would, to some extent, get blamed on lost explosiveness following the surgery when in fact they just need work.  Oden may never be a "number's guy".  His high school numbers were around 20/10 and I'm sure he was completely dominant.  Again, if Greg's NBA numbers end up being 18/10 with 3 blocks, he may be perceived as not having beaten microfracture, when in fact his game may not be stat heavy to begin with.  A 75% Oden misses perhaps 15 games a year with "this and that" and is productive into his thirties.

How likely are these scenarios?  Hard to say.  Amare is the obvious comparison, but Stoudamire is an odd combination of small forward and center.  He makes tons of obscenely quick cuts, followed by explosion to the rim.  Oden's NBA game may be somewhat more decisive, not putting as much strain on the knee from odd angles as does Amare's game.  Not being an orthopedic surgeon, I'm hesitant to handicap the odds of recovery, but it's September, it's slow, so what the heck.  Two years out, Greg has a 40% chance of a ninety percent recovery, a 35% chance of a seventy five percent recovery, a 15% chance of a fifty percent recovery and a 10% chance of, well, let's not go there.

We are very fortunate to have this kid on the team.  Because of his personality (and willingness to share it), we'll be a talked about team.  A "liked" team.  The exposure will sell more Brandon Roy jerseys nationwide than perhaps we expect.  Oden is mom, apple pie, and the flag rolled into one.  We don't have to hold our breath that he might "blow it".  Those "hall of famers" that were offered for Greg?  Other teams would still make the offer and Pritch would still say no.

We have five years to put the right pieces around our big three.  That's a long time.  It's very possible that in that span, every other player currently on the team will leave or be traded.  Look at the Bulls' championship window.  Was there any constant besides Jordan and Pip?  We have years to plug any holes in Oden's game that may have been created from the surgery.  I would put the odds pretty high that Greg sticks around after his rookie contract.  We'll be able to offer him more money and security, which becomes even more important when you've got health questions.  Hopefully he likes Portland and enjoys being able to "hide out" here.

A lot of us are in the dumps right now, worried that we've lost our "shot".  Far from it.  The odds of Oden becoming a star center, regardless of what he "might have been" are strong.  Stars are made in the playoffs and the playoffs will see a lot of Greg Oden.

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Wow!......
What else is there to say beside great analysis EP!  I do think as long as Oden gives 100 in all the rehab that given his age, the very small area of damage, and the Blazers not rushing him back until next season that we can safely rule out anything less than 75%.  

IMO would say 90% is a reasonable expectation.  Again like EP metions in his diary no one really knows what "GOD" if capable of with no NBA experiance.  Maybe oden at 50% is the best center in the league, or maybe Oden at 100% doesn't even crack the top 5 list of centers in the league ( I would have said the top 10 list, but with such few legit centers in the league that Greg on crutches would be in the top 10).  

My plan with this years team, Odens recovery & return next year is just to enjoy the ride, and have fun watching it all play out!  

by SurReal on Sep 23, 2007 7:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

50%
Thanks for the reply.  It's entirely possible that a "hobbled" Oden would be the league's best center, possibly behind Dwight Howard.  Yao is 8 years older than Oden, I believe.  Amare is only considered a center in the Suns scheme.

Unfortunately, I still think there's a possibility (albeit small) that Oden could have a short, injury plagued career.  If I were the Blazers, I would NOT make a contingency plan.  Oden's a cornerstone and you have to plan on riding the guy, bad knee or not.

by Engineering Problem on Sep 23, 2007 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's pretty much how I see it too
I was talking to a friend the other day and decided that odds are exceptionally in favor Oden having at least a Dikembe Mutumbo quality career.  While it's not the Bill Russell career I had been dreaming of, I could live with that.  It might be enough for a championship too given everything else the Blazers have going for them.

by Gargen on Sep 23, 2007 10:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Preventative surgery
Surgery always entails an element of risk, and microfracture knee surgery more than most.  But we should bear in mind that GO's surgery--by KP's own account--was ultimately preventative in nature.  That is, GO could have played on that knee this season.  He would have had to ice the knee on a regular basis, and at times he would have probably had to sit out games with pain & swelling.  But he still would have been effective.  Just look at how he performed in those practices after the "jumping off the couch" incident (or whatever).  Remember those highlight reel blocks and dunks?  Some of those were on a bum knee.

Admittedly, the worst-case scenario isn't good.  That is, the microfracture surgery--despite the surgeon's experience, GO's age, the tiny size of the area repaired, and the crack team assembled to help in his rehab--is a failure and GO is worse than he'd have been without the procedure.  But that's extremely unlikely in my opinion. Most likely, GO will return at 75 to 95% of where he was prior to the injury.  And that's a serious load in any NBA era, let alone the current, center-deprived one. Remember, GO hasn't even filled out or learned the NBA game yet; he's just 19.  

Regardless of whether GO is 90% or 75%--or even 50%--the synergy of having him and LA in the same front line is going to put a serious dent in other teams' offensive production.  Not only will those two block a lot of shots, but they'll disrupt or discourage many others.  The result will be poor shooting percentages and lots of turnovers for other teams, and numerous easy hoops for the Blazers going the other way.

by hurryup09 on Sep 24, 2007 2:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We have GO
and no one else does. Thats what I look at.

We have the next dominant center in the NBA. No one else does.

Now, didnt we just see Oden in college with a bum hand? Oh wait... it was his dominant hand at that. So we didnt see him at 100%. Many say that we saw him somewhere around 75% with a bum hand. And look where he ended up. Granted, mobility is worth more to an NBA player then moving your hands around, but its still a handycap. And he overcame it. It would have been easy to sit it out with a bum hand. Wait a year. Play college this year. And we would have ended up with Durant no questions asked. Probably would have kept Randolf and would have an entirely different "feel" to the team we have now. Looking back, I can only say thank you to GO for playing injured like he did. For learning how to play with his left. For the pain he has already endured and the pain he is going through now. He is our player, and no one elses.

As for the rest of the team and they way this season's story is comming to pass, I am glad we have The Buffet on our team. Even more so now. I have a feeling he will have an Uncle Cliffy type of following in town. Why is he here? Draft Day 2007. Would we have the players we have now if we would have ended up #2? Would we have the chemistry we have now? I dont think we would.

I am glad they took a chance to give Greg a longer career with the surgery. So he is out a year, they may have given him the ability to play 4 or more years if this works.

Does anyone think this will be Shaq's last year in the league? I hope not. I want GO to have to play against him. I want him to see whats its like to have to play against what many deem to be the most dominant center to play the game. He needs that class in NBA school.

by Blazer on Sep 24, 2007 4:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

110 percent!!!
First, a suggestion: Hook GO up with the Rapinoe sisters at University of Portland, great soccer players (Megan played with the US national team before she went down a year ago) who are both going through similar recoveries at about the same time. For Megan it's her second ACL surgery in two years (soccer is HARD on the body!). I think they'd inspire each other!

Second, a question: Aren't percentages difficult?  GO is 19. Over the course of an entire year under normal circumstances, we'd expect variations in his "measurables" -- speed, agility, standing jump, etc. -- for several reasons. His body would mature more. He would enter the Blazer's physical fitness program (weight-lifting, diet, etc.). Playing a full season of NBA basketball would have effects, some positive and some negative. We wouldn't expect him to have exactly the same measurable physical attributes at the end of the year as he had at the beginning. Things are too fluid.

So the question becomes "90 percent of what?" 90 percent of where he was at the NBA testing camp? In that case we have no idea where he would have been without the surgery, one year later. 90 percent of where we project he might have been one year later without the surgery? We're not that good at projecting this sort of thing under the best of circumstances. At least not that I know of.

Recent history tells us that this is a difficult but not insurmountable surgery. To my eye, Amare is pretty much as I remembered him.  Z-Bo might have been better, actually, maybe because he also dropped a little weight. GO MIGHT show up a year from now stronger and fitter than ever from the regime he'll go through. And bigger, just from another year of maturation. So, how about 110 percent?

by barryj on Sep 24, 2007 8:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

110%
110% is possible.  I'm more thinking where he will be in relation to where he would have been if the knee hadn't been injured.  In addition to physical factors, sitting out an entire year can play games with your head.  Having had major knee surgery, I can say that bedrest and rehab is a lonely process.  Also, if your body is developing without a basketball in your hand, it's probably tough on your kinethetic memory.  Oden's great strength is that he's not afraid of his own size.  I hope he retains that recklessness post-surgery.

by Engineering Problem on Sep 24, 2007 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

reckless
I totally agree: his body has such great athletic snap to it when he goes for blocks or dunks. I REALLY want to see that again. I bet he'll never be  TOO far from a basketball physically OR mentally while he's rehabbing, so I'm not so worried about his "forgetting" the game. In fact, he might be able to visualize it better with a year to watch successful centers in action live and on tape. But just the day to day grind of rehabbing, the worry about overdoing it and relapsing or underdoing it and not making progress, is going to be incredibly difficult.  

by barryj on Sep 24, 2007 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mental
From what I gather, recovery is as much a mental thing as physical.  During physical therapy after my ACL surgery, I was asked to jump up and over a 6" step.  Physically, I was able, but I was too mentally protective of the knee to actually do it.  Five years later, I still have to remind myself not to mentally time my walk such that my lead step up the curb is with my right leg.

Having Oden's physical attributes, it must feel like a god to play ball.  He's going to experience what mortality is like over the next few months.  Maybe it's for the better, maybe not.

by Engineering Problem on Sep 24, 2007 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe for the better?
A bit of caution, of protectiveness, isn't necessarily a bad thing.  You know how when players are a bit banged up or sick they sometimes actually play better?  (Jordan with the flu was a classic example.)  The reason, in part at least, is that they're forced to play within themselves and with a certain restraint.  

I noticed during Summer League and the Blazer scrimmage highlights that G.O. seemed to leap to block every shot and to dunk hard every single time he got the ball down low.  Some of that was no doubt nervous excitement.  But there seemed to be a tendency for G.O. to go all-out on every play, and it sometimes worked against him.  After this surgery, he will probably tend to pick his spots a bit more, and that may ultimately help his game.  You see this in seasoned veterans.  Even those who still have their hops learn to be more efficient by only using their explosiveness when it's necessary.  

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar often commented that the NCAA's attempt to lessen his dominance by temporarily banning the dunk shot actually helped him.  With his favorite offensive weapon taken from him, Kareem was forced to develop an arsenal of finesse shots down low.  Oden's injury may benefit him in the same way.  Ultimately, this injury may make G.O.'s game as precociously mature as his facial features and tendency towards thoughtful reflection.
 

by hurryup09 on Sep 25, 2007 2:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I for one
am becoming convinced that he will come back better than had he not had the surgery. After reading the article on Amare on si.com (i believe that's where it was), I really feel that this year will be used to not only strengthen and heal his knee, but balance out and build up the rest of his body as well. This is his opportunity to perfect strength training and make sure his house is in order. Plus, once he's semi mobile, he can start working on his shot and become even more well rounded of a threat. Make no mistake about it, this guy wants to show Portland that he was worth the pick, he does not seem to want to let anyone down, including himself. As Fatty used to say, "book it", I think GO will have a better, LESS injury plagued career if he works is * off during this rehab process.

by mark twain on Sep 24, 2007 9:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Heck yeah
While I was on vacation I wondered about B.E. and G.O. and what I was missing.  I wondered what I could contribute to B.E. when I got back.  I really did not come up with much.  

One thought that I had was that G.O. was probably going to injure that knee at some point in his career.  Now that he and the team know about the injury, they can resolve it and compensate/prevent it from happening again.

Initially, I thought the injury was not a big deal because the Blazers are young and they can wait a year for him.  G.O. made a wise decision to go pro and get someone to CTC instead of trying to rehab in college.  

Now I think the timing of the injury is even better.  Imagine if G.O. played through pain this year and maybe next and then went down for a year once the Blazers were fully loaded and ready to contend.  That would have been devastating.  

I see the G.O. injury like taking your car in for a tune-up before a long road trip and realizing you need a new transmission.  You can gut it out and hope the transmission makes the trip and then repair it afterwards or suck it up, throw down the credit card and repair the transmission now.  Otherwise you are risking being at the mercy of some hillbilly mechanic in the middle of no where and ruining your trip.  Repairing G.O.'s transmission now should ensure we all have a great trip together in the future.

If I had an extra hug, I would give it to you.

by tominhawaii on Sep 24, 2007 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Prevention
Never really thought about it, but perhaps Greg could end up with a list of "prohibited" moves - things he just shouldn't try to do on the court.  His game will need to become more cerebral anyway to keep from fouling out in the first half.  Long term, he may project as a "stay at home" shot blocker ala Duncan rather than a "go get it" type like Theo Ratliff.  He's a guy you want cleaning the defensive glass anyway - let LMA roam out there.

From what I understand about the knee, injury prevention is mostly about musculature and the balance between muscle groups.  Looking at the list of players who didn't bounce back from microfracture, there are some guys who seem like they would want to do it "their way" and not strengthen "non intuitive" or "boring" muscle groups.  Witness Chris Webber, who insisted on adding upper body bulk despite the recommendation of trainers.  Time spent there could be time spent on the lower back or hip flexor.

by Engineering Problem on Sep 24, 2007 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry
that was meant for mark twain.

by broggerboy19 on Sep 25, 2007 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!
Glad you agree  :)

by mark twain on Sep 25, 2007 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Webber
That's too funny.  I can just picture Webber in the gym, oiling himself up and admiring himself while doing bicep curls.  Meanwhile his exasperated trainers are pulling out their hair.

There will be no such issues with Greg Oden.

by hurryup09 on Sep 24, 2007 3:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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