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The New Rule & Colleges

I've been trying to figure out if the rule the NBA implemented last year...the one in which high school players couldn't go directly to the NBA...will actually impact colleges and recruiting in any significant way compared to the previous rule.

Being an Oregon Duck fan it doesn't seem to have had an effect. The Ducks never seem to be competing for 5 star recruits anyway. But some elite programs are always in the mix for those players.

In Ohio State's case last season, they were able to land 3 freshmen who took them to the NCAA title game, so maybe a 1 year 'rental' of the players was a worthwhile investment.

How about the U of Washington? They landed Spencer Hawes, to a lot of local and national fanfare. But he's gone after a single, rather unspectacular season. I suppose it's a bad example in a way. He was a local player so the coaches didn't have to spend recruiting resources on air fare and lodging. But they still invested effort, a scholarship, and all the coaching time just to see him leave after a season.

Before the new rule, when a player indicated he was 'leaning' towards going directly into the NBA, recruiters reportedly tended to back off. Now, I don't know.

I suppose it wouldn't matter for those elite schools. But if you're Ernie Kent at Oregon for example, will you be inclined to invest the time and effort on a 5 star recruit you believe will be gone after a year? Or would you be more inclined to offer a scholarship to a 3 or 4 star player you might have 3 or 4 seasons?

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of course it does
hurt because the coach realizes he has that player or players for 1 year 2 if he's lucky.look at o.state now that oden's gone.texas always recruit talent.but t.motta boy i would'nt want to be in his shoes right now.

by fatty on Aug 19, 2007 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good Post
My answer was a little lengthy, so I started another diary on my thoughts as to a solution.

by coastrider on Aug 19, 2007 11:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I HATE the rule
Look: When I was 18 years old, I left my parents' house. I did not to go to college. I went straight out into the world and looked for a job. Employers I contacted had a choice as to whether they wanted to take a chance on an 18 year old with no college degree. If they didn't, fine. I kept looking until I found one who did.

That's the way it should work with anyone, ballplayers included. If teams think a high schooler is too raw for the NBA, they should have the choice not to hire him. If a player wants to keep looking for a team who will, that should be his right as well. What there should not be is a rule which arbitrarily forbids two willing, legally recognized parties from entering into a contract with one another.

Of course, I realize that the rationale behind the rule has nothing to do with protecting the welfare of the player as is sometime sanctimoniously suggested. It is little more than a cynical ploy to re-establish the cozy symbiosis that once existed between the NBA and NCAA. With the growing numbers of top-flight high schoolers who were jumping directly to the pros, the NCAA was rapidly losing its marquee value. On the other side of the coin, many dunderhead NBA GMs found themselves increasingly burned when spending high draft picks on high schoolers who were not NBA-ready (sound familiar, Blazerfan?) The solution was simple: funnel all the best prep talent to the colleges for a minimum one year in exchange for allowing the NCAA to serve as a defacto minor league for the NBA. Just the way it was done in the good ol' antebellum past.

Does it matter to the colleges if the star player bolts after a single year? No, by Hades. Moldorf rightly mentions Ohio State. A second-tier hoops program is catapaulted into relevance (and the NCAA finals) by the chance to land Oden and Conley Jr. The increase in revenue and recruiting power more than compensates for the departure of its star players. Don't think that Ernie Kent wouldn't chop off his right arm to get the same opportunity.

by knickfan on Aug 19, 2007 12:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

are you going
to hook up with me with those 2 hotties dude pr what dogg.

by fatty on Aug 19, 2007 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hate the rule too
Every so often this topic comes up, and I always say that I actually agree with Kobe, and some others who have suggested that this rule is inherently racist even if it wasn't intended to be.  I know I'll get lots of arguments against this post, but I hope all will consider this point of view.  The problem is with the statistical amount of minorities that are forced to work right out of high school to support their family that raised them that will never have the opportunity to go to college.  This rule hurts them (as it hurts any non-minorities in the same position).  The arguments against this theory are that a player that was good enough to get drafted will have a free ride, or serious relief at colleges of multiple options.  Although I feel that that is the case, I do also feel that this reality doesn't eliminate the point entirely.  There are some kids who really need to help by taking on two jobs immediately following graduation because of the destitute situation that their family is in.  This rule is not fair to those few.  Granted they can try to enter the NBA a year later, and in Greg Oden or Kevin Durant's case they would still have been drafted extremely high, but the late first round picks or second round picks, I'm not so sure, I think they slip into obscurity if not playing organized ball of some sort, they aren't keeping up with their peers who are playing for a season or two on a college team, and I don't think it is realistic to expect that many of these would be late first round or second round draftees go and play in Europe, I just don't think that option, if it is a legitimate one is even on their mental radar.  On the racism question I won't go on any further, either you'll get my point, or not, and agree or not, but that is my perspective, and I don't think there are tons of people that this effects, but I also don't think that it isn't a factor.  

I certainly don't think the rule was created to be racist either, I understand why it was created, I just don't like it... I also will say the... I can get drafted, fight, and die for my country but I can't play basketball in the NBA does also strike a cord for me.

In my opinion the real solution here is for the NBA to adopt a full fledged minor league system. This is where the promising young draftees should go at the age of 17 or 18, and if they want to go to school, great, go to school then, you'll get to skip some time in the minor league in all likelihood.  When there is such an incredibly deep minor league system in baseball with far more players per team it just doesn't make any sense to me for there not to be at least one minor league team for each pro team in basketball.

by drawingjeremy on Aug 19, 2007 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see both sides.
If the NBDL were to expand to 30 and become a true farm system, I could see abolishing the age limit. However, it may still cripple the NCAA (which was happening before the age limit was instated). I like college hoops, and the age limit helps them immensely.

So, I think it could work, especially if a round or two are added to the draft. However, if given the choice, I'd rather see the NCAA be strong than have the NCAA be weak and the NBDL be weak.

by rockingharder on Aug 20, 2007 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The NCAA is a profoundly corrupt organization.
I have no problem with the basic concept of college athletics.  I think if students who have entered a college want to play sports that's fine.  But to actively recruit people who couldn't get into your college academically, and then give them money to be there, and then rake in millions off the proceeds is simply crooked.

If people want to become professional athletes then all you need is a successful minor league.  If the NBA wants polished players they should contribute to a farm system where the potential athletes can be taught what is needed.  However, this doesn't make as much money as college athletics.

by EnglandDan on Aug 20, 2007 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the rule
Even a year of school will help alot of these players. And it helps the schools because at least they got Oden/Durant for a year, instead of not getting them at all.
Formerly known as Junit3123

by Jason3123 on Aug 19, 2007 2:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like the rule as well
I think it helps the ncaa in very obvious ways, and nba teams get a better look at players before they draft them.  

by myemic23 on Aug 20, 2007 1:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The rule is good
THe rule is good, for the player, the school and the NBA It all has to do with maurity. The player gets a year out of his parents house with the responsibility of caring for himself. He will have to learn basic life and survival skills.. I don't care how bad people scream, call me out or whatever, but with VERY few exceptions NO 18yr old is emotionally or mentally ready to be a couple thousand miles from home with no guidance/supervision and suddenly having more money than they know what to do with. Its a recipe for disaster. HOw many of us at 18 would have not made some really stupid mistakes if someone took us away from our families, filled our bank account, told us to stay out of trouble then looked the other way.? I know I would have been a train wreck. A year of maturing can't be anything but beneficial to the young man. To shut down all the peope who want to throw the race card and say that other primarily white sports take kids right out of High School and let them turn pro I'm ready to shoot you down now. Ya, kids leave school and go to the minors in baseball. MOst of those 18yr old kids (and even the college guys) end up spending their first couple of years in the low minors where they live with a host family in a small town. They still get that family atmosphere for a while. By the time they are 20-21 and move up they are ready for the world. Hackey has the same types of programs at the Juniour and low minors levels. THe kids that play for the WinterHawks who are under 18 live with local families and go to local HIghSchools. Both sports have college trusts negotiated into their initial minors contracts in the event that they don't make it. That doesn't happen in the NBA. The HS players who declared but weren't drafted or don't survive beyond their rookie contract have no such safety net. It's not a race thing, its a common sense thing. THere is no way a player doesn't benefit from a year of school. If the coach at that school knows a player is leaving after a year then encourage him to take a class load heavy in business/finance.
  THe school benefits because even a one year run to the Final Four raises your profile nationally and let's the school go out and recruit the guys who are going to stay for 3-4 years. You can't tell me that only getting Oden/Conley even for a year isn't going to help Thad Motta get another great class. If nothing else he has a couple more high profile donars for his program. I think GO can afford a couple bucks.
  THe NBA benifits for two reasons. The most obvious is that the players will come in a year wiser, with a year away from Mom. THe not so obvious reason is marketing/sales. With few exceptions (Oden, Kobe,Garnett) the guys coming out of High School are all relative unknkowns. YOu can't market someone nobody has heard of. By spending a year in college guys like conley, Oden and Durant (down to OJ mayo, Kevin Love next year) come into the league having played on national tv and have built in fan bases from their respevtive schools and tv appearnces. That you can sell. For every LeBRon or Kobe there are 10 Corleone Youngs. Anybody know where he is right now? I think he pumped my gas the other day. Bet he's wishing he took the scholarship now.
  I agree with everyone who says we could abolish the age limit if the NBA developed a minor league system built like MLB's with each team having it's own NBDL team and any kid being drafted having an education trust built into their contract. You could have a 4 round amateur draft, fill the rosters and give all these guys who go to Europe a place to play at home if they choose. In Order not to kill the college game you can make a rule governing how many 18yr old players you are allowed to take every year. The NCAA will lose some of the top cream, but the majority of guys will school as a better way to increase their draft status. In Baseball a lot of guys choose another year of school so they can move up in the draft. So, IMHO the rule is a winner for everyone involved.  
On Paul Allen's cash it should say "In Pritchard We Trust"

by kevingiard1 on Aug 20, 2007 8:40 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

its a good rule
we got oden out of the deal ...but otherwise it helps with recruiting and also its hard to beleive how unskilled some players are...there is no way in  gods green that some one should be in the league if you cant use your off hand I saw mr lucas working with a player on jump stopping ..and not picking up his pivot foot!!!! ITs like a 50" leap and adonis body gets you a look in the league now....but coach k seems to get his to stick around for some reason..thats whom we should consult
if it can be conceived it can be achieved

by lyfefindsaway on Aug 20, 2007 9:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Man, I cannot believe
the absurd arguments that have been put forward in support of this sorry turd of a rule.

Let's start with the idea that most high schoolers "aren't mature enough" to make the jump to the pros. Well, if that's the true intention (and I don't think it is) you might as well rename it "The Incompetent GM Full Employment Rule."

Now shouldn't it be the job of a GM - and NOT the league office - to ultimately determine whether or not a player is "mature" enough to handle the rigors of the NBA game? If I apply for a job driving a tractor trailer when my only experience has been behind the wheel of a Mini, d'ya think I'll get hired? Sure, if John Nash is in charge of personnel for the trucking firm. He just might believe that in 3 or 4 years I'll turn out to be a superstar trucker and that by hiring me early he can get me on the cheap. Never mind all those horrible smashups in the meantime...

Seriously, the idea that there needs to be a rule to keep a John Nash from drafting a Telfair or a Webster is ridiculous. Do you really think such a rule is beneficial to the player? Telfair and Webster made the choice to come out. They're 18; they're adults; they're getting paid. If their NBA careers turn out to be less than they would have been had they gone to school first, well... they can cry about it on their way to the bank. The real loser in those transactions are not the players but the John Nashes of the league who don't have the savvy to assess the player's readiness and wind up losing their job as a result.

As for the argument that the rule "helps the NCAA." Well, duh. I believe that is its actual point. More to the point is that it helps the NCAA maintain its role as the bloated cash cow at whose teat college presidents love to suckle. This, of course, is a far cry from the original intent of college athletic programs. Back in the day, colleges offered athletic scholarships as a means of access to those for whom a college eduation was otherwise unaffordable. It enabled the athletically gifted kid from the projects a ticket to the neccesary training to become a doctor, an accountant, a schoolteacher.

The notion that these scarce scholarship spots should somewhow be reserved for those who intend to use them as a stepping stone to a pro career is a grotesque perversion of the original ideal. In fact, it could reasonably be argued that letting NBA caliber high school talent jump to the pros would actually leave more of those coveted scholarships available to those who could use them for the purpose for which they were originally intended.

I was heartened to see that many of those who support the rule acknowledged that it would not be necessary if the NBA had a true minor league and not the fraudulent, half-steppin' version that is the NBDL. This is absolutely, 100% correct. Let NBA franchises use minor league teams to develop players on their own dime. Let young aspiring players of legal age the freedom to try out for those teams. Let NBA GMs assess which of those players might be talented enough to pursue a pro career. And let colleges return their athletic programs to serving those disadvantaged kids who might not be skilled enough to play pro ball but may have the skills to pursue a career in law or physics.

But, I also know that every one of you who argued in favor of the rule is a Blazer fan. So I can also understand the one argument in favor of the rule that makes a lot of sense from your perspective. As my man lyfe accurately points out, without this ill-begotten rule y'all never would have landed Oden.

by knickfan on Aug 20, 2007 9:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

ok.. really nice thoughts
first the points I liked:

"it helps the NCAA maintain its role as the bloated cash cow at whose teat college presidents love to suckle"    

Now thats just funny and I couldnt leave it out.   Is there a better word than "suckle"?

"The notion that these scarce scholarship spots should somewhow be reserved for those who intend to use them as a stepping stone to a pro career is a grotesque perversion of the original ideal"

Very nice point sir.  To be honest, I never considered that the Odens and Durants of this world are simply taking someone elses scholarship.  This is a very valid point in my mind.  

Where we disagree is the John Nash reference paragraph.

To use your analogy,  say I am the best mini driver in the nation, but I have never driven a bigger rig.  Is it fair for me to go out in the workforce and say, someone hire me right now, as is, or pay the consequences in 3 years if I develop into the best trucker ever.  Or would it make more sense for me to go on to a trade school and prove my true value to the trucking community? Would it be out of line for someone to step in and say "hey, slow down and work your way to the big truck, its for your own good".

side note:  
had Oden come out of high school, we would have had the best odds of snatching the #1 pick, and Greg Oden. So I am not sure its fair to say that the current system landed us Oden.  Our odds would have been 5 times better if he came out of high school, we just happened to get super lucky.

by myemic23 on Aug 21, 2007 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To answer your question:
"Say I am the best mini driver in the nation, but I have never driven a bigger rig.  Is it fair for me to go out in the workforce and say, someone hire me right now, as is, or pay the consequences in 3 years if I develop into the best trucker ever.  Or would it make more sense for me to go on to a trade school and prove my true value to the trucking community? Would it be out of line for someone to step in and say 'hey, slow down and work your way to the big truck, its for your own good.'"

Well, if you'll allow me to continue torturing this trucking metaphor to within an inch of its life, I'd say that of course someone should step in to tell me that I need to "work my way up to the big rig." Presumably, that person would be the hiring manager at the trucking firm. I just don't think the government needs to make a law preventing me from seeking employment as a truckdriver in the first place, as misguided a notion as it may be. If the truck company is really dazzled by my potential, they could offer to pay my way through trade school. Or I could pay for it myself. It's just downright cynical to expect the trade schools to themselves pay to develop my talent for the truck companies in exchange for the hope that I might be able to land the school a berth in some Monster Truck March Madness.

OK, enough of that. Actually, being that this is a Blazer blog, I'm not convinced that this is an entirely non-partisan issue for you guys. Is there a team in the NBA that has been more burned by drafting high school talent than Portland. From the Jermaine O'Neal debacle up through Outlaw, Telfair, and Webster. Although the jury is still out on Travis and Martell, that's still four first round picks with very little to show for them thus far.  And just to cap things off, the year the Blazers have the statistically best shot of landing the best prep player since LeBron, the league changes the rule! But no worries, Portland drops to the fourth pick in the lottery that year only to buck 5% odds next year, bouncing back to the #1 pick just when Oden is able to come out.

So, yeah, if I'm a Blazer fan I'm really liking this whole rule change thing right about now.

by knickfan on Aug 21, 2007 8:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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