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Oden vs. Durant: The Final Word (for now)

Up until the draft and even going into Summer League all the buzz was over Oden and Durant and which was the better pick.  Just because we got short-changed a little in Vegas on that score doesn't mean there wasn't evidence there.  So here's the skinny on where we are in the ongoing debate.  This comes from my observations as well as talking to people at least partially in the know around Summer League media tables.  I'm not sure that much of this information is new per se but it has now been confirmed with some first-hand observation and analysis.

There's little doubt Kevin Durant is going to be a great scorer.  He has a confident shot out to three-point land and isn't afraid to take it.  He can get his shot off quickly and elevate over most defenders.  He also has a post game with spins and up-and-unders.  Right now that post game relies on quickness rather than bulk but if he can get you up in the air you're dead without some really quick help.  He took people off the dribble in Summer League but I don't think that was a fair assessment of the kind of speed and agility he'll face when the games are real.  I'd like to see more evidence before making a judgment about his penetration potential in the halfcourt.  On the break, of course, he'll be deadly.  He possesses a calm confidence that commands respect from the moment you see him.  There's no mistaking him for anyone else in the huddle.  If you're looking for potential star quality, he has it.

Durant is a legit 6'10" but he is also skinny as a suburban fencepost.  He has virtually no arm or upper body strength for a guy his size.  He cannot establish deep position in the post and he cannot keep anyone else out of the post either.  There is no way he's going to be able to play an inside game this year on either end of the court.  This is unfortunate, as the post scoring was perhaps the most magical part of his game.  The Sonics are already talking about playing him at off-guard.  This is not likely to be his permanent position.  Even though he takes both outside shots and floaters without hesitation that's not the best part of his offensive game.  

Because of the way the Sonics are set up right now Durant is going to get an enormous number of shots per game and will probably score 20.  His field goal percentage is going to be quite low, however.  With the wear and tear his body will take it's likely he'll stop driving at all after the first couple months of the season and simply become a juke-heavy jump shooter.  We aren't going to see the complete offensive repertoire nor the truly massive scoring games (with extra free throws) for a couple of seasons yet.  We may not see his best defense either.  It's doubtful he'll ever be truly comfortable guarding NBA shooting guards.  What's more, we may not know if he can pass or not.  He'll probably be encouraged to shoot every time he touches it.  In short, if you're looking for more than points from Durant you're not likely to see it soon.  It's as much the Sonics' fault as it is his.

Oden's body is far more NBA-ready than Durant's.  He doesn't look like a freak of nature but he looks big and built.  He's fairly strong and can jump out of the gym.  He's nowhere near Durant-quick but he moves gracefully for a center.  The best part of his offensive game is undoubtedly dunking.  He appears to have a reasonable post game from 10 feet and in.  He'll not be asked to score much farther out than that his rookie year but eventually he'll have to if we wish to keep the middle open for passes and cuts.  This will be desirable because he's already showing a willingness to move the ball.  He's way ahead of the rookie versions most star NBA centers that way.  A guy who already knows how and when to pass out of a double team has a real leg up.

Oden needs to work on his rebounding form.  He's clearly used to getting rebounds from smaller, weaker, slower opponents.  He'll be a terror when he does get his fundamentals down but until then he'll lose his share to experienced centers.  He has good range on defense and will probably become an incredible shot blocker.  Right now he has to learn when and against whom to attempt blocks.  He'll be a good pick-setter.  He'll also be devastating on either end of the fast break.

The biggest questions about Oden right now are his grit and desire.  He looks impressive in the huddle but he doesn't have that same commanding presence that Durant does.  He's going to be banged, bruised, and bullied unmercifully all year long.  If he doesn't have the heart to bang back and to learn from the experience you could see him crumpling.  In that way he feels like far more of a risk than Durant.

There's no way Oden scores as many points or makes as many highlight reels as Durant does.  He'll probably evidence a much more rounded game at first though and should help his team to more wins.  You probably won't see the real Greg Oden for a year and a half either but you'll see more facets to his game in the meantime.

Having seen both I'm still pretty confident that the Blazers made the right choice, both in general and for their team.  You know Durant will be a star and you know it will be scoring that gets him there.  However you don't know if he has any other aspects to his game than that and you don't know if he'll ever get over the need to hoist repeatedly to get his points.  You don't know if Oden is targeted for individual superstardom but you already know he will do more things to help his team right away.  To my mind that leaves less doubt about Oden.  I'd rather take my chances with a guy who's going to rate high in many areas than with a guy who will rate very high in one but you're rolling the dice in all the others.  Plus Oden has a definite position that he'll be able to play right away and should develop more quickly even if Durant outstrips him statistically in the short term.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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great post
we all appreciate you going to Vegas and putting the time in for this kind of stuff.

One of the things that kind of alarmed me about Durant was his lack of assists. I understand he carried his team at Texas, but you'd still like to see more than that. I didn't check the last couple of summer games, but my understanding is it was around 1 per game or less.

Maybe thats not the worst thing when you're the only guy that can score, but I don't think that would be good for a team like the Blazers with guys like Aldridge and Roy that also can/need to score.

Oden was definitely the right fit for the Blazres.

by matthewcc on Jul 19, 2007 5:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

it was the right choice
and if you ask me,i really feel that this was 1 of the best draft classes in years.the goofs making fun in another posts about thaddius young yeah laugh it up,he was 1 of the most impressive to me,also conley,critterion,hawes,thorton,my boy bellinelli,yi,big baby davis,so all you goofs who feel this draft was just oden*durant,you'll be in for a big disappointment.also not to mention a.brooks what a draft class.

by fatty on Jul 19, 2007 6:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Blazers got the right guy...
Once people start seeing how Oden and Aldridge play together the excitement will do nothing but build.

by ken on Jul 19, 2007 6:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Issue
of course is not what happens this season, but where the team stands in 3/4 years.  Assuming Oden reaches his anticipated potential, there is no doubt that he was the correct choice.

by Renegade on Jul 19, 2007 6:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

what goofs are those, mr f?
i know i saw great talent deep into the 2nd round -- as evidenced by our picking up josh mcroberts who's a steal -- and all the sfs of whom the best besides durant offensively is probably al thornton who's going to light it up for the clippers....and not just as a "slasher" which translated tends just to mean "he can dunk."

there are guys to watch closely all over the league. i want to see luis scola from spain now on houston who might make them better than dallas right away -- an enormous gift for new coach rick adelman as this addresses his biggest need.

in other years big white centers like kyle visser and aaron gray would've gone top ten -- both might turn out to be serviceable pros but they haven't been oversold and maybe theyre better off in the long run.

the nba needed this. the same guys on tv every week, year after year -- i know i was bored. i want to see some new names.

the playoff success of golden state, utah and cleveland demonstrates that movement is not impossible and some surprises may be in store.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jul 19, 2007 6:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Stupid question
Do you think Oden is ready to start?  I would bring him off the bench for 20-25 minutes per game for the first couple of months so that he can adjust to the NBA pace and so he can get his legs.  He may be a beast, but I think he won't be as good on defense in the beginning as some might think.  

by torsoheap on Jul 19, 2007 7:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You'll probably get a lot of
you must be kidding - of course he will start comments.

I personally think the odds are at least 50 - 50 that Pryzbilla starts the year off as our first string center.  That appears to be the minority opinion though.

by timg56 on Jul 19, 2007 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I don't think it's automatic that Oden starts though.  If we want the team to peak in two to three years we shouldn't throw a 19 year old to the wolves.  Nothing builds confidence like getting dunked on by Oberto in late November.

by torsoheap on Jul 19, 2007 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It remains to be seen
It really depends on who shows up in better shape and who knows the offense better at the start of the season. That may mean Przybilla.

by jamon51 on Jul 19, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

too early
I think it's way too early to say if we made the right decision.
There's only so much you can extrapolate from a few summer league games (In Oden's case - only 2).

i.e. Just because Durant only averageed 1 ast/game with the Seattle summer league squad, doesn't mean that he wouldn't average more ast/game with the Blazers (who have a better team) in the regular season.

Based on the situations they have been put in, it's hard to make apples to apples comparisons. If Durant was drafted by a more talented team (i.e. the Blazers) he wouldn't have been asked to play SG and look to score every time he touches it. Just because that's the way that Seattle is using him righ t now, doesn't mean he doesn't know to pass.

The Blazers should win more than the Sonics in the next couple years, but it's hard to say that the same thing wouldn't happen if a gutted team had drafted Oden and we'd drafted Durant.

It's as if us drafing Oden was a self-fulfilling prophecy - we can say Oden is the reason we're winning more, and that all Durant can do is score (as many were claiming before the draft), but part of the reason it may play out that way initially is BECAUSE we drafted Oden and Durant got drafted by a gutted team.

I thought it was really insightful when you speak about the risks with each guy.:
For Oden:
"The biggest questions about Oden right now are his grit and desire.  He looks impressive in the huddle but he doesn't have that same commanding presence that Durant does.  He's going to be banged, bruised, and bullied unmercifully all year long.  If he doesn't have the heart to bang back and to learn from the experience you could see him crumpling.  In that way he feels like far more of a risk than Durant"

For Durant it's that we don't know how well-rounded his game will be (because he's so skinny (hard to get low-post position)and his role on this gutted team is to score all the time)

So over the next 10 years I guess we'll see...does Oden develop grit and desire (I would add offensive skills beyond dunking to his list) or does Durant gain weight/strength and get to play with better teammates.

It should be quite an interesting ride...

by jm on Jul 19, 2007 7:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Durant, Oden

Great breakdown on Oden and Durant. I agree with your assessment, but want to add a few comments. One, we all know that Durant didn't shoot a high percentage in Vegas, but less discussed is the reason for his low shooting percentage, which is important: poor shot selection. He chucked up a ton of difficult shots. It was almost shocking how often he took a deep jumper when closely guarded at the beginning of the shot clock. By taking a lot of shots, Durant is certainly going to score a ton of points, but he will not help Seattle win many games doing that. He will either need to take fewer shots or bear the responsibility of losing. Two, as others have mentioned, Durant's lack of assists should be a concern to Seattle. A player that shoots a lot and doesn't set up his teammates will eventually be disliked if the team is losing... and Seattle will not have a winning record next year.  

Three, Oden was not Oden in the summer league. I watched NCAA hoops quite closer last year, and Oden had much more energy than he showed in Vegas. Some might think his lack of energy was the result of banging against NBA bodies in the summer, but I think it was mostly his illness. He banged equally large guys in the NCAA and played for much longer stretches, in much faster-passed games with Ohio State and never looked so gassed. An Oden with a full gas tank will not get as many fouls, will get more rebounds, and more easy baskets.

Four, at the Orlando combine, Oden tested as being faster and quicker than Durant. Testing is only testing, but if one watches Durant closely, he'll see that Durant is not explosive. He looks quick at times because he's so efficient with the basketball--he's the opposite of Martell Webster, in that way. Webster looks ultra athletic until the ball is in his hands. When he's trying to drive, there is so much hesitation and so much struggle in his moves that he seems to be moving in sand. Durant is pure efficiency with the ball in his hands... This is important because pure speed and quickness are critical to defense. My guess is that Durant is going to be a defensive liability, unless his body changes a lot.  

by PoliSam on Jul 19, 2007 8:07 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Durant can't guard NBA 2's
So while putting Durant there might allow him to chuck up shots over smaller guys, it will cause the Sonics problems on the other end unless they plan on playing zone all game.

Here's my guess: it ain't gonna happen.  

by leeroyjenkins on Jul 19, 2007 8:19 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the analysis
I had been under the impression that Durant was the more NBA ready of the two and would be the first to make an impact, but you've put them more on the same level with similar development times. (I guess meaning more current downside to Durant than I had guessed - though perhaps it is more a result of being a Sonic than just being Durant.)

by jorga on Jul 19, 2007 8:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The "problem" with Durant
is that he's tall and skinny.  He's not beefy enough to play the 4 nor is he strong enough to post up as a 3.  He could play the 2 on offense (the Iverson volume shooter role), but how about on the defensive end?

I'd say it'll take a couple of years for him to bulk up enough to play the 3 with a post up game.  I don't see him getting too many rebounds in traffic right now.  He can jump out of the gym, but he'll get pushed around pretty easily.

by torsoheap on Jul 19, 2007 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oden's internal fire and health
were suspect to me and a handful of others prior to the draft.  It's way too early to pass judgement on the first issue, but his health still remains a big concern to me.

Prior to the draft there was discussion about his inordinate requirements for sleep, his slow to heal broken hand, and even that he looked 20 years older than his physical years. Then he came into Portland for workouts and commented about how tired he was from the long flight when he stepped off the plane.  He later attributed the different "air" in Portland to his lack of endurance in the workout. And of course it was revealed around this time possible problems with a protruding disk in his spine and a leg that was shorter than the other.  On draft day, he was suffering from a cold (remember how he applied an anti-bacterial to his hands prior to shaking Stern's hand so that he wouln't infect our beloved commissioner?)

All of these little things added up, raised at least a small red flag among those whose objectivity was not clouded by a head-over-heels love affair with Oden.

Then, as if right on cue, summer league begins and Oden's energy tank is near empty, revealing still more problems.  Now it's a sinus infection and swollen tonsils.  And all the hoopla and media pressure has worn him down.  Yank those tonsils and he'll be fine everyone thinks.   And I imagine there will be a few who think the bad tonsils were the cause of all his ailments - excepting of course the hand, spine and leg conditions.  Well maybe they are right.  HOPEFULLY they are right! Greg is a Blazer now and I'd very much like to believe in so simple a fix.

But, my gut feeling is that physical health will be Oden's limiting factor this year and likely in future years as well. Simply put, Greg has not presented himself as the robust and healthy 19 year old athlete that I'd like to see in one who was selected as our future franchise player. I'd love to be wrong, but I'm a very concerned Blazer fan right now.  I suspect these signs are easy for some to ignore because they don't want it to be so. Am I the only one with this concern?

 

by TwoDeep on Jul 19, 2007 10:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You are not alone
I've had the same feeling skittering around the portion of my brain devoted to fandom and I've tried to shackle it's spiky body down in the back of my skull because I want to keep surfing this incredible wave of optimism and positivity crashing in on our poor Blazers.

I think too little time has passed concerning Oden's health issues to come up with anything solid . . . but I am starting to try and temper my outlook just in case.  

by fatwansaboni on Jul 19, 2007 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I think I used that as part of my debates for durant.

Still, I like oden and I think we made the best choice.  I just hope the blazers really did their testing to identify any issues.  He HAS continued to be sick, and that's always a worry.  I don't know that I'd cough out a "sam bowie" yet, though.

Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard.

by ratbastird on Jul 19, 2007 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sinus infections
As someone who has had a sinus infection, they really sap your energy level and make you feel tired all the time.  Of course, as you pointed out, that has nothing to do with his spine/hand/pegleg.

by torsoheap on Jul 19, 2007 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Durant will simply be a chucker this season
It's going to take Durant some time to bulk up and learn to play defense and rebound - if he ever does.  His rookie year I expect him to score in the high teens with a mediocre FG% and miniscule assist and rebound numbers.

In other words, just like summer league.  While Oden was hurting and we never saw his real game, I think we saw tell-tale signs of Durant's.  

Fortunately for you if you are a Durant fan, many people who follow the NBA (and who vote for Rookie of the Year) thnk that scoring is all that matters so he probably will win ROY.

by leeroyjenkins on Jul 19, 2007 3:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good observations
from Vegas. Thanks. I saw Durant play often in college last year and get over 30 points on several occasions. Trouble was Texas lost most of those games (when he scored 30). There were three other Texas players who shot 40% or better but the team assist to FGM ranked 270 in the country out of 336. In other words it was a team of gunners. Watching Seattle in Vegas seemed much the same. Jeff Green is the better player right now of the rookies. I also wonder if Durant will maintain his health through a tough season.

Oden and Ohio State lost their 3rd game on January 9th. They lost their fourth on April 2nd. In between they won their conference title and their conference tournament. Durant and Texas lost 10 games and were third in conference and 2nd in the conference tournament. Both schools relied heavily on Freshman and both have excellent coaches and deep talent. So I have believed in Oden as a winner over Durant. Both teams will be devastated by catastrophic injury to their guy. Oden plays a position that can overcome that better than Durant.

by lee3022 on Jul 20, 2007 12:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not true
This statement is blatantly false:

"Both schools relied heavily on Freshman and both have excellent coaches and deep talent. So I have believed in Oden as a winner over Durant. "

Texas's coach is a great recrutier, but a TERRIBLE in-game coach. He cost Texas several games this year due to terrible play-calling (not getting Durant the ball), and atrocious time-out management.

Ohio State had several veterans that were keys to them winning games, and in fact their team often seemed to play better when Oden was out with foul touble.

Ohio State's 2nd leading scorer, and ridiculously clutch 3-pt shooter was a senior - Ron Lewis. (In the NCAA tourney, the 2 games that Ohio State should've lost - vs Xavier and Tennessee - Lewis scored 23.5 pts/game)

The player tied for the most minutes/game on Ohio State was a Junior, Jamar Butler.

This compares with Texas' top 2 scorers & minutes played (aside from Durant) were Abrams (Sophomore) and Augustin (fresman). I can't believe that you really watched Texas play a lot and you didn't see how badly Augustin's questionable decsions and coach Barnes' ineptitude cost them several games.

I completely disagree with your assessment of Durant and Oden's college situations...

If you'd reversed their teams - Durant playing with Ohio Stat and Oden with Texas, I strongly doubt we would've seen Ohio State make it to the Finals and Texas lose in 2nd round. I'd venture to guess we would've seen just the opposite.

by jm on Jul 21, 2007 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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