Trade rumors abot Zach, Who do we get in return?

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 3:05 PM PDT

I found these rumors at yahoo sports Zach Trade Rumors and I'm curious what everyone thinks about them.

One of the rumors has the Blazers talking to the Bulls about Zach, but doesn't mention what we'd get in return. The other has the Blazers talking to the Wizards about Zach, which could become a three-way trade with Atlanta, but again doesn't mention who we'd get in return.

My questions is if we did trade Zach to either team, who would you want in return for him... reasonably. The Bulls starting back-court probably isn't reasonable for example. Hit me with your best shot.

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KP has gone on record

saying he "likes three-ways," so I wouldn't put the Atlanta thing past him...

Ball Don't Lie

by bothteamsplayedhard on Jun 1, 2007 3:06 PM PDT reply actions

hmm...

I like three-ways too.

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Canzano will have a field day with that...

by EngineerScotty on Jun 1, 2007 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Who I think would be worth it.

From the bulls either Deng, or a combination of Nochioni and Duhon. However those or pretty unlikely, now getting Noch and their 1st rounder this year would be worth it and possible.

Caron Butler from the wizards would be an interesting fit here. Good small forward and relatively affordable. They have to have a throw in to make the trade work under that cap.

From Atlanta, I'd love to see Josh Smith here, in leu of him I'd take their first rounder and either Sheldon Williams or Marvin Williams.

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 3:13 PM PDT reply actions

Agent Zero

is one of my favorite non-blazers and i would be willing to trade plenty to get him. seriously. i have no bad feelings about his wacky predictions for scoring, he's just a goofy dude, and pretty good at basketball, i hear.

not gonna happen, but seriously i'd probably give up even Roy to get him.

by little joey @ Blazer's Edge on Jun 1, 2007 3:14 PM PDT reply actions

Arenas

I only negative thoughts about getting him would be that 1 he needs the ball to be effective, 2 he demands a lot of shots taking them away from higher percentage shooters (almost all of our players) , 3 he would stunt the growth of our young players trying to take over in every situation, and 4 when he's not scoring he's completely innefective.

I'd like a more versatile player (beyond scoring) and someone that can play some legitimate defense.

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions

uh, he would take over the team

by which i mean they would be at his mercy. this is a guy who doesn't recognize that he's cold and keeps shooting until he's 4/23 or 6/25 -- and some of the shots are ridiculous. 30 footers. the crowd oohs and ahhs when he hits one but he takes an awful lot of crazy shots (a la iversen).

if he gets hot you might win. you're at the mercy of his ego and whim. the most extreme example of a shoot-first PG.

i don't think either oden or aldridge would be happy very long scrounging for offensive rebounds while never getting an entry pass in the post.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jun 1, 2007 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions

i'm not suggesting...

he fits with the team or that the Blazers should get him.

Dude is just plain hilarious. Check out his blog at nba.com. how can you not be a fan of such a goofball? i'd love for him to play in my city, and i'm not moving to dc, so...

by little joey @ Blazer's Edge on Jun 1, 2007 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Why even involve ATL?

Zach and Dan for Jamison makes perfect sense.

The Wizards get a 26-year old dominant low-post presence that compliments Arenas and Butler perfectly. We know they wouldn't have a problem with Zbo's character, because they signed a convicted rapist(D. Stevensen) just last summer.

We get a good character SF/PF in the final year of his contract. He will give us 15-20ppg and open things up for JJ, Brandon, and Durant or Oden with his outside shooting. We could re-sign him the following year for half as much as Rashard Lewis.

by JMblazerfan on Jun 1, 2007 3:25 PM PDT reply actions

The most common rumors

have us getting Chicago's #9 pick plus Nocioni in a sign and trade (yeah, I know, July 1 blah blah, it'd be a gentleman's agreement) or Antawn Jamison.

I'd go for either I guess -- the one for the pick would depend on who's available at 9, of course. I'd want both Jamison and Antonio Daniels if we did the Wizards deal.

by howlingfantods on Jun 1, 2007 3:28 PM PDT reply actions

I like Daniels too. So what would be fair?

PDX sends Zbo, JJ, and the Dickau/Jones expiring contracts
and gets Jamison and Daniels?

by JMblazerfan on Jun 1, 2007 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Sign Gil in 2 years?

Move AD and Jamison to the bench. Add J. Foster to back-up LMA.

1-Arenas/Daniels/Sergio
2-Roy/Afflalo
3-Ime/Jamison
4-Aldridge/Foster
5-Oden/Joel

2009-10 looks okay.

by JMblazerfan on Jun 1, 2007 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Why add JJ

to this trade? Not sure how the $ matches, but surely Zbo and Dickau make as much as Jamison, Daniels. Personally I'm not real impressed w/ Jamison, kinda soft. Does he really play sf?

by crakarjack on Jun 2, 2007 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions

We might not have to inlcude JJ.

Yes he'd play mostly 3 and some 4. More of a perimeter player, but he can post-up as well. Not very good on D, but the character, the contract(1 year versus Zbo-4yr/61mil), and the shooting/15-20ppg make it worth it. Also the addition by subtraction of Zach. Not a long-term fix by any means, but perhaps a great 6th man/instant offense canidate for our Finals team down the road.

by JMblazerfan on Jun 2, 2007 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Good question.

I think for Zach to go to Chicago we'd need to get a resigned Nocioni for 6-7mil, a resigned PJ Brown on a 1-year deal for 3 mil, and Chicago's #9 pick. Rumors have Brown retiring, but this would be easy money for him as he'd likely only play sparingly behind Aldridge and Outlaw. Heck, he could even retire soon after the trade and it would be just like us sending Foye and Cash to Minnesota for Roy last year.

As for Atlanta, I think it would be easier to send Zach straight to Atlanta rather than trying to involve Washington. Atlanta clearly needs to upgrade their front court. I had previously thought they should take Horford or Wright at #3 and Acie Law IV at #11, but if they could acquire Randolph for their #11 pick and Marvin Williams/Tyronne Lue/Lorenzen Wright, that would free them up to take Conley at #3. But acquiring Williams in the trade kind of defeats the purpose of getting the #11 pick, as we are likely looked for a SF with that pick.

by bfan on Jun 1, 2007 3:34 PM PDT reply actions

In both cases, the Jeff Green pick.

#9 from the Bulls, #11 from the Hawks.

Dispensible to the teams in question in both cases
(Bulls need win-now pieces, not projects, and ATL's rookie needs are met at #3).

Need large-money throw-ins to make it work, but I don't care too much about those.
EXCEPTION: If the throw-in from ATL is a REALLY good wing player
(of which they have too many--Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin Williams),
then we wouldn't need Green as badly; getting Jeff Green AND Marvin Williams
could be repetitive, redundant, and repetitive.

I still think Jeff Green's the man, though.
I'd like to see Pritchard interview him, at the very least.
Supposedly, that is an interview which would go VERY well, Brandon-Roy-level well.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 1, 2007 3:37 PM PDT reply actions

my objection to jeff green

-- who i agree is a very good player, likely to help someone immediately -- is his shootng range. can he make an nba 3? i saw him play at georgetown several times, and i'm not even sure i saw him shoot the collegiate 3.

he scored in close, he was a great passer, he was fairly clutch, but....can he hit the 3?

ignacio

by ignacio on Jun 1, 2007 3:49 PM PDT reply actions

No, I don't think so.

I'm looking at a JJ / Roy / Green / LMA / Oden lineup, and I see
a half-court ball-control team with size, speed, ball-handling, coachability, and
a high basketball IQ at all positions--not much perimeter popping outside of the guards,
but everyone except Oden being able to hit the mid-range jumper,
everyone good at cutting, passing, screening, and court vision:
AWESOME old-school fundamentals-in-the-half-court basketball.

Not to mention the makings for some SERIOUS team defense.
Less showtime than a young, enhanced version of the classic Celtics line-up.
Less white, too, for whatever that's worth (OOOOHHH, I went there!)
Half-court efficiency and clamp-down team D so impenetrable
it makes the Spurs and Pistons look like the '98 Nuggets.

Basically, really classic fundamentals-oriented basketball
from a small-market team. TV ratings would never be the same again.
The whole league would hate us. Screw 'em. It'd win championships.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 1, 2007 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions

I meant to specify the sizes involved:

6'4" at the point
6'6" at shooting guard
6'9" at small forward
6'11" with center capability at power forward
Greg'Oden" at center

When that kinda size has NBA-ready bodies (no beanpoles here!),
great BBIQ's, good hands, good range, great mobility, great coachability:
Who needs treys?!? We could go 82-0 without ever breaking 80 points.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 1, 2007 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions

OH NO YOU DIDN'T!

just kidding.

The weak link in that unit is Jack. Seriously, there's gotta be some perimeter shooting. I don't know why but I'm obsessed with brandon at the point and a #2 who can shoot, but I'd take a point guard who could shoot and defend. We just don't need Jack's driving skills with Brandon on the team.

by little joey @ Blazer's Edge on Jun 1, 2007 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions

Half court offense

that involves a lot of player and ball movement is every bit as entertaining as the run and gun style currently in vogue.

I like the team you list as is - great balance so none of them can be left alone. Hopefully the perimeter defense will improve to match that of the middle.

by bbfred on Jun 2, 2007 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Agreed

The boring thing is not the slower style, it is one player dribbling for 20 seconds before anything happens.

by masoregonian on Jun 3, 2007 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

That's kind of the same

as all my objections to all the lottery sfs -- other than maybe Al Thornton (who I didn't watch much last year), none of them are productive scorers, and we desperately need scoring at the 3. Other teams will have a grand old time with Brewer and Green, but we need points. A starting lineup of JJ/Roy/Green/LMA/Oden may struggle to break 70 points per game.

by howlingfantods on Jun 1, 2007 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions

They may. Then again, good shot selection . . .

. . . is no way to drive the score down.

Basically, here are the plusses and minuses, in terms of stat categories,
to the JJ / Roy / Green / LMA / Oden line-up:

PLUSSES

High shooting percentage (from great shot selection)
High assists
Nearly legendary lows in turnovers
Team defense
Rebounding, at both ends
Fouls drawn, for high free throw attempts
Free throw percentage IN those attempts
Points allowed
Points scored per possession

MINUSES

Possessions per game
Three-point attempts (though not necessarily PERCENTAGE--no ill-advised chucking)
Points per game (from the previous two points, despite the plusses about efficiency)
Fast break points
Ratings

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 1, 2007 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions

scoring

I would find it hard to believe any team with Brandon and Lamarcus on it would have difficulty scoring 70 points. Besides Oden is no slouch when it comes to getting points around the bucket, the guys a monster!

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Don't forget

that when Brandon was out with his injury early this past season JJ was able to step up and score consistently. The team played well without Zach. If Martell and Travis are back and improved, they will be able to make solid contributions.

by bbfred on Jun 2, 2007 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Just to keep us on track...

You're talking taking Jeff Green with Atlanta's number 11 pick and sending them Zach Randolph. Does that make sense for us? Giving up one of the top inside scorers in the league that has a sweet jumper and the best offensive rebounder in the game up, just for a rookie 3 that can't shoot beyond 20 feet?

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 4:24 PM PDT reply actions

Right.

Considering he's hitting the 15-footer and finding the open cutter,
I don't need him hitting the trey--at least as he's someone smart enough not to take it.

It's guys that can't hit the long jumper but still TAKE IT that will kill us.
Green will take nothing but the shot he can make--I don't care if it's always for two.
And when that shot is not available, when he is too well-defended,
he will find someone else open, and get the ball to him.

No daggers, just made shots, credit the assist, and never a turnover.

EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 1, 2007 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions

I happy with him not shooting the 3

But him not having the ability to shoot out there allows the defense to sag and not play honest. Having a three that's at least a threat from deep allows us to spread the floor giving the guards more room to slash and the bigs more room to operate.

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions

It's up to the guards to provide that threat, then

Roy turned out to be a better perimeter shooter than he showed as a Husky,
and JJ REALLY needs to improve his perimeter shot--
with LMA, Oden, Green, and a driving Roy, all of whom can (and are WILLING to)
find the open man, JJ's gonna be open for jumpers, and they'll find him.
HE'S the one that needs to make them, not the small forward
(at least not if that SF is a big part of the slashing/screening/passing game
that leaves JJ so open, Kerr-style).

And that sort of Blazer line-up would have an astounding strong-side/weak-side game
which would function the way inside-outside works for the teams it does.

Blazers have a five-on-three...and they pull it back and wait for help.

by QualityPie on Jun 1, 2007 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions

It could work, but look at Championship teams

San Antonio
Los Angeles
Detroit
Miami
Chicago (Jordan's teams)
Houston
(In no particular order)

The last few teams to win Championships all had small forwards that could defend and hit the 3. That seems like a trend to me. It's something we should consider when filling our Small Forward spot.

I am the master of my fate, I am the Captain of my soul. - Charles Wesley

by Earl on Jun 1, 2007 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes.

That's why I like D. Granger and J. Childress. Both are young, and can defend/stroke it from outside among other things.

by JMblazerfan on Jun 2, 2007 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions

HERES WHO I WANT

Bulls: Deng.. sorry Chitown, if you wanna beat Detroit grab Zbo. Not to mention Zbo could average 30-15 in the east.

Hawks: Nobody.. really.. nobody.. Joe Johnson perhaps but I consider him more of a 2 then a 3 and we already got roy.

Welcome Greg Oden

by junit3123 @ Blazer's Edge on Jun 1, 2007 10:49 PM PDT reply actions

wizards

forgot... umm.. nobody there either..

Welcome Greg Oden

by junit3123 @ Blazer's Edge on Jun 1, 2007 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Choosing from the wrong POOL..

Choose from the Free Agent Pool (i.e. Lewis or Wallace).
In a 3-way:
1) find a team that needs a PF (i.e. Phil, Chi,...)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/depth
2) find a third party with CAP space (i.e. Char)
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm
3) have the third party sign the Free Agent;
take a commission (i.e 2-round draft picks, whatever..);
trade the PF to the team in need;
and trade the SF to the Blazers.

spencer

by Eugenefan on Jun 3, 2007 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions