Hollins or...?

by Dave on Apr 5, 2007 12:45 AM PDT in News

You've no doubt heard that the Blazers will retire Lionel Hollins' number during the final game of this season as they honor the 30-year anniversary of the '77 Championship team. And let me say that I love that team very much. I was just a little kid in '77 and that team got me started on this life-long love affair. Hollins was a huge part of that squad and the honor is very much deserved.

But I think there's some discussion to be had here. Hollins will become the sixth member of that squad to have his number retired, joining Walton, Lucas, Twardzick, Neal, and Steele. That's half the roster. Meanwhile the early-90's Finals squad boasts only Drexler as an honored member. Geoff Petrie is the only other Blazer besides that to have his number retired.

Granted the Championship weighs heavily and counts for much. But is that too big of an imbalance? Without being disrespectful to Lionel Hollins or his contributions I think it's fair to ask, shouldn't names like Porter, Kersey, and Williams be part of the conversation...maybe even to the point of saying they should have been next in line? Can you make a stronger case for honoring Lionel than you can for Terry, Jerome, or Buck?

What do you think?

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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Retirees...

I think 20 years, at least, before the rafters... My two.

by nathan junior on Apr 5, 2007 2:43 AM PDT reply actions

I didn't miss a single game

-in that 50-10 season (including pre-season) and let me tell you, LH was the best PG we've ever had!!! He did it all!! He was the best defensive and quickest guard in the league!!! He could always hit that shot we had to have or get that impossible steal just when we needed it most!! No matter what we had to have he deliverd and at the MOST CRUCIAL times!!! There will never be another one like him!! Maybe my favorite Blazer of all time but definitely my favorite guard of all time!!! Really, he was as perfect as they come!!! He had a compleat half-court, full court game!! Deadly quick passing with a very very, high IQ!!! Of course, that whole team was brilliant!!!

by bigddydrg on Apr 5, 2007 4:35 AM PDT reply actions

Next time

Try to act like you're a little more excited. You seem depressed.

:-D

by jamon51 on Apr 5, 2007 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions

Personally

I think the '77 team deserves a little extra leeway on this issue. In addition to winning that ever-ellusive championship, that was the team that really put the Blazers on the map and started the whole Blazermania thing which lasted all the way through to the late 90's. Therefore, I'm cool with Lionel's # being retired.
In contrast, while Clyde and friends did excite and entertain us, I don't think anyone but Drexler is truly worthy of having there number retired. Terry, Buck, Duck, and Jerome played their positions well, but can't really be said to have been superstars. Drexler made the Dream Team, the All-Star team multiple times, as well as had several 40+ point games. He's deserving. The others, IMO, are not.
If we start retiring numbers of players simply because they are beloved by the community, then it won't be long before the honor loses some of it's significance.

by superbatman on Apr 5, 2007 4:40 AM PDT reply actions

Yes,

-and we'd run out of numbers.

by bigddydrg on Apr 5, 2007 4:45 AM PDT reply actions

hollins was

in many respects the dominant personality of the 76-77 team (and 77-78, which started 50-10). it was when he and johnny davis paired up as starting guards that the blazers began dominating, because of the ultra-quick perimeter efense they provided. the championship team was only 48-34; its fastbreak style was late to blossom as walton pushed for it -- a la ucla.

hollins also, because he was the pg, took many shots at the end of the shot-clock so his personality and will-to-win was a huge part of how the trailblazers won.

i'll always remember his defense, though, and how he and davis exposed the laker backcourt as old and slow and then outquicked henry bibby and doug collins of the 76ers.

bill walton wanted to start a fastbreak out of a made basket by the other team -- you need very fast aggressive guards to attack in this way.

lionel hollins, for a couple of years, was one of the very best guards in the nba.

ignacio

by ignacio on Apr 5, 2007 7:19 AM PDT reply actions

Chronological order, that's all.

Some post-1977 Blazers might deserve it MORE, but not necessarily SOONER.

For the 30th anniversary, if this is the last of the 1977 bunch to get it,
and especially if this is just starting to be the time to be
approaching the next one instead of looking back on that last one,
then retiring Lionel's number would be a fitting way to cap off the looking-back-at-77 era.

Ring this season out with one last what-we-were binge,
then come strong next year, and for many years thereafter,
and don't stop 'til there's another banner in the rafters.

I mean, hey--maybe #7 deserves to be retired, but not just yet.

Tell 'em Large Marge sent ya.

by QualityPie on Apr 5, 2007 8:06 AM PDT reply actions

QP = Genius

Gotta love the future...

Was Damon really a bad Blazer, or did he get the short end of the stick?

by rpxxxiv on Apr 5, 2007 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Of course,

Terry had his #30 sullied by 'Sheed, and Jerome's #25 is presently being worn by Trout.

Nobody has used Buck's #52 (or Duckworth's #00) since these gentlemen left the Blazers (other than a Photoshop job of Greg Oden wearing #52 that someone did).

Looking forward to the day when they retire #7 and #12....

by EngineerScotty on Apr 5, 2007 8:16 AM PDT reply actions

#12

I'm with you, Scotty. It's long past time we honored Billy Ray Bates.

Seriously though, #30 does need to get aired out for a few years but it should be the next to go into the rafters. Make it a three-fer. Gross, Porter, and 'Sheed.

by Couv Operator on Apr 5, 2007 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

I may be biased...

I'm too young to really evaluate the '77 team (I wasn't born yet) but I would love to see Porter's jersey retired. He is my favorite Blazer. I don't think Buck or Jerome should. Buck didn't show up until we went to the finals and Jerome was more than a role player but not a star. TP was with us for 10 yrs, made the all star team twice (should have been more) and is not only PTB all-time assist leader but 10th in the NBA's all-time assists leaders! For those teams that went to the finals, it was the Drexler and Porter show. Throw 30 up there in the rafters!

by porterfan30 on Apr 5, 2007 8:25 AM PDT reply actions

I'm cool with it

Although I am a baby Blazer (born in 1980), I think it's a fine idea to commemorate the championship team. From what I am hearing about Hollins, he was the starting PG, right? I think the starting PG on a championship team should most definetely have their # retired. That is an integral part to a winning team.

Likewise, Mr. Porter... who I am familiar with and idolized.... should have his # retired. I don't think this should be a debate. Porter is one of the great Blazers of all-time. And as such, he should be recognized. Guys like Kersey, Williams, and Duck... they might be deserving. However, if they had won a championship, they'd be in the rafters for sure.

One idea I heard was to have the entire '77 team retired in the rafter as #77. Walton and Lucas can stand alone. Of course, that would be a bit of a slap in the face to neal, steele, and twardzik.

by mcmillion on Apr 5, 2007 9:22 AM PDT reply actions

Hollins came off the bench in 76-77

but started in 77-78, the year the Blazers started 50-10 before Walton went down.

The five starters from the championship year have all been retired.

Of course, it bears mentioning that being PG for that team was less important than most teams; after all, the Blazers of that era employed the leagues first (and so far only) "point center"--the big redhead himself. A recent column by one notable talking head--Hollinger I think it was--compared Kevin Love's passing to Waltons, noting that Big Bill routinely would grab rebounds and throw pinpoint-accurate passes to fastbreaking guards at halfcourt--a skill that no big man since Walton could do reliably, but which Love is alleged to possess (haven't watched him much).

One other note: Jack Ramsay has his "number" retired in the rafters as well; it is #77.

by EngineerScotty on Apr 5, 2007 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions

I disagree

"I think the starting PG on a championship team should most definetely have their # retired."

So you think that Jason Williams should have his # retired for the Heat?

I don't think it's always a criteria that works.

by jamon51 on Apr 5, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm not a fan of retiring numbers.

Honor the player in some way. If an incoming player decides he is up to the task of wearing that number, he will have to shoulder the expectations of the fans.

Jackie Robinson's 42 throughout baseball would be my only exception.

by lama on Apr 5, 2007 10:41 AM PDT reply actions

Hollins the point guard?

Not the way I remember it. And Hollins not starting in the championship year? Again, not the way I remember it.

Twardzik was running the team at the point with Hollins at the two. A young Johnnie Davis provided ligtening speed at the guard positions coming off the bench. Twardzik was really the spark plug of that team. Walton was who made them a team with his brilliant passing. Hollins played great D, was terrific on the break, and although it took him awhile, became a pretty good shooter too.

by TwoDeep on Apr 5, 2007 11:01 AM PDT reply actions

You're probably right

I've always assumed it was the five starters hanging in the rafters--I was six when they won it all. (In which case--why Lloyd Neal all these years instead of Lionel? And what about the recently-departed Herm Gilliam?)

by EngineerScotty on Apr 5, 2007 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't quite

understand the Lloyd Neal thing either. He really made his mark in the years before the championship run. Blazer fan's had very little to cheer about then, and Neal's hard nosed always agressive play endeared him to the fans.

In my mind though I don't know if Hollins deserves to have his number retired. While I have little doubt we wouldn't have won the championship without him, Walton and Lucas were certainly more important spokes in that wheel and Pinball (Twardzik) was probably more of a key than Hollins too.

Actually, Terry Porter who did more longer, is probably the more deserving of having his number retired than anyone else.

Then, agreeing with the comment posted above, next will be Brandon.

by TwoDeep on Apr 5, 2007 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions

TP!

I love Terry Porter, and I think that he should be the next Blazer to have his number retired... But Hollins makes a lot of sense NOW because of the 30th anniversary. Let's just hope we don't have this conflict every 5 years.

by rockingharder on Apr 5, 2007 12:06 PM PDT reply actions

Hey--fairly good question:

Who's making this decision, anyway?

Was this decided long ago, during the Patterson era?
More recent--a Leiweke move?
Or is it even one of the first moves (maybe THE FIRST decision)
by our new, here-for-the-long-haul GM Kevin Pritchard?

If it's a Pritchard move, he may have a list of numbers he thinks warrant retirement,
and Lionel goes first because he preceded the other, future honorees.
Might be Step One of a long-term jersey-retirement plan.

Of course, that's IF it's a Pritchard-starting-his-GM-tenure thang . . .

Tell 'em Large Marge sent ya.

by QualityPie on Apr 5, 2007 12:56 PM PDT reply actions

TwoDeep,

-your absolutely right. Pin-ball was the spark plug. LH was faster on the break but NO BODY was better than Twardzic in the half-court with Walton. Remember those HUGE hands of DT's :) GEEZ he could handle that ball!!!
I wish it was required that our new guys had to watch X-number of hours of that '77 team just to see the beauty factor alone...
I know there's a lot of TP fans out there and there should be. Look at his numbers. But in no way was he any where in the same category. I'm sure we could NOT have won the title if we would remove LH and DT and replaced them with TP and CD.

by bigddydrg on Apr 5, 2007 1:17 PM PDT reply actions

Hey Bigddy -

you'd be fun getting together to talk to. You remember that squad so well.

Excellent point about requiring our new guys to watch x-number of hours of that Blazer team. I don't think there has ever been any better team play than what they displayed. I remember Brent Musburger saying back then that they were the epitome of a basketball team .... the best he had ever seen. And I don't think anyone has topped them since either. They really moved that ball.

Walton was certainly the catalyst, but you've got to give Jack Ramsey a hell of a lot of credit too.

by TwoDeep on Apr 5, 2007 8:40 PM PDT reply actions

Get your hands on

a copy of David Halberstam's The Breaks of the Game. It's a must-read for classic Blazer fans. It's actually about the 1979 season...the year after they won the championship. But all the familiar characters are there. If you haven't read it you're missing out.

--Dave

by Dave on Apr 5, 2007 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions