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Sitting/standing at games (moral dilemma)

Maybe it's because i go to U of O, where damn near everyone (at least in the student section) stands for the duration of both the basketball and football games, but my biggest pet peeve at the games is when the crowd sits for huge moments at the end of games

I guess I just don't get why in the last five minutes of a close game when there's a timeout everyone stands for the whole thing and the place is rockin, only to sit down again when play resumes...

I naturally get pretty pumped towards the end of games and want to remain standing, but someone behind me always starts complaining...Then as soon as anything remotely exciting happens or someone drives to the rack everyone jumps back to their feet, and if you're not quick enough and the guy in front of you beats you to your feet you miss half the play(i'm not terribly tall)...is it really that important that everyone sit back down for 30 seconds while the play develops? I've been going to sports games all my life, and if the guy in front of me is standing to see an important play, i take that as cue i should too, not to tell him to sit down...

My dad, on the other hand, who i went to the toronto game with, holds the position that if the rest of the section is sitting (which mine was even at a time when the entire end section with the thunderstix was standing) you should follow suit. so i guess my question is, am i being inconsiderate by wanting to remain standing for big plays at the end of games even if the rest of my section sits, or is it reasonable to take the position that being at a sporting event in the last few minutes of a close game, people might get excited and you might have to stand too if you want to see?

Poll
Am I a jackass or in the right?
Sit down, jackass!
11 votes
If you're not in a wheelchair, the last couple ends of games should have had you on your feet!
45 votes
Who cares?!
8 votes
People who sit aren't real fans!
11 votes
People who stand aren't real fans!
0 votes
People with functional legs aren't real fans!
3 votes

78 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 31 comments

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Easy
I would fight anyone who told me to sit down.

by robrun2 on Dec 22, 2007 10:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
its very difficult decided whether or not to stand. at last nights game most of my section was standing towards the end until someone started yelling for everyone to sit down. For some reason everyone gave in and sat down. It pissed me off when one guy in the back of the section can dictate whether or not the rest of the section sat down.

Also perhaps the people standing behind the backboard where the blazers are shooting should sit during freethrows, since a bunch of standing people can add a little more distraction which could throw off the shot.

Noam

by noam16 on Dec 22, 2007 10:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

UNM
I went to a University of New Mexico Lobos game last week and the student section, which sits in the worst seats, behind the opposing players basket, all put their hands to the left during free throws, and when the player is in their shooting motion, flips their arms to the right. By the parallax effect,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax

,this may be pretty unnerving to someone shooting free throws, where the thunderstix, with their seemingly random position, maybe easier to shoot against as they would be the equivalent of white noise.

Any thoughts on this?

by jonestr on Dec 22, 2007 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i actually
was thinking about something like this the other day...the thunderstix as used currently would seem to cancel each other out unless you're focusing on a specific set of them (which the players aren't)

i don't know what it would take to get an experiment going with this but it'd be worth a try if possible

by DominicanAvenger on Dec 22, 2007 12:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I really dislike the thunder-sticks.
They are fun for fans once in a while, but they get old really fast.  I am in a lower-bowl end-zone.  I specifically picked the side that sees them much less (usually only passed out before the second half to avoid using them on our own team), but last night they did pass them out during the first half.

My objections are several pronged:

  1. I do think they are white noise, if anything they could be lulling, at least for any non-rookie.  I think we'd be better off having lots of random mad shouters close to the court coupled with sudden unusual visual distractions.  Any legit baller does not get distracted by thunder-sticks.  I'm pro shouting things that don't make any sense at all, completely off topic, if you want to take a foul shooter out of their game this just might do it for some people.  Don't avoid controversial topics - this may serve to get the player in question even more rilled up if he is on either side of an issue.

  2. Fans don't consistently use them only as a distraction to the other team, though they do use them in that capacity, they also use them as clappers, the result is that this makes us use whatever magical powers they hold on our team almost as much as they are being used on the opposing team.  So if there were any sort of validity to them "working" that would tend to negate much of it.

  3. The seats are fairly tight, so there really isn't that much room for you to put them down anywhere, and holding them will guarantee you using them on our guys.  As is my knees are into the seat in front of me and I'm bumped up next to whoever is next to me whenever seated.  Standing creates it's own complications with them.  I've seen several people get into near fist fights for innocently making contact with the person in front of them.  Fist fight or no, that energy doesn't help those in this silly conflict nor the surrounding crowd stay positive about the game and our team.

  4. An extension of the last issue:  Due to the close quarters, even in lower bowl seats and people regularly getting up for drinks, bathroom, food, etc. in the middle of the game, a row full of thunder-sticks to negotiate in addition to the bodies present tends to block my view and take me out of the game for longer periods than it would otherwise take w/o thunder sticks.  I am particularly sensitive to this as I have a pair of aisle seats, which I prefer, but anytime that someone wants in or out we do get taken out of the game somewhat.  The new JumboTron has helped this issue dramatically.

Now that I've listed my grievances, there is one big positive I can see, if someone isn't into the game thunder sticks can be entertaining, this is probably especially true for young, future fans in attendance.

by drawingjeremy on Dec 22, 2007 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Standing is for young people
I still wouldnt sit down even if someone told me. Just turn around, smile, and tell that fellow fan to stand up.

by jonestr on Dec 22, 2007 11:40 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

yeah that's what i did at the bucks game
guy kept yelling and i was ignoring him for a few minutes, then eventually i turned around and told him he should've expected he might have to stand at a sporting event

by DominicanAvenger on Dec 22, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Stand.
This is a game and we should be cheering.

Anyone who doesn't can suck it.

A wink is the same as a nod to a bat!

by ratbastird on Dec 22, 2007 11:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sit
Both my girlfriend and I are pretty short.  When people are sitting, we're more even.  When folks stand, our view gets blocked out.

That said, there's a certain sense of the moment - a game like last night calls for standing during the Q4 run.  Certainly standing during a critical defensive stop is appropriate.

Also, older people may have trouble standing for extended periods, or if they do, they may not be having a good time...

by Engineering Problem on Dec 22, 2007 12:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i'm a different kind of short
i have long arms and legs and a short torso...so i get taller than average when we stand and shorter than average when we sit...but i feel your pain being the other way around

by DominicanAvenger on Dec 22, 2007 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I sort of feel your pain
My wife is 4' 9" and always has someone taller than her sitting in front of her.
Happy Holidays and Mele Kalikimaka!

by tominhawaii on Dec 22, 2007 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For me
it depends on who is behind/around you.  If it's basically young-to-mid folks and they don't look extremely PO'ed like they've been on their feet all day already then I'd say stand away.  But you know, when folks get up into their 60's plus it's legitimately hard to stand...perhaps even worse to get up and down continuously.  And of course if you're standing the guy behind you has to and it's a domino effect clear back to the back of the section.  I feel really bad ruining the experience completely for someone just to make mine partially better.

If I know I want to stand I usually get seats near the back of a section if I can...less trouble that way.  If I'm in front of someone I don't feel comfortable blocking I just remember that what I do with my voice carries way farther than whether I'm standing or sitting.

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 22, 2007 12:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i do try
to check who's behind me if i'm planning to stand...also i've found that in the 300 level people are generally more receptive to it/likely to be up themselves...

also, although i'm pretty young i've had a bad back for a few years, the constant standing back up/sitting back down is much harder on it than just standing (but obviously this is going to differ for everyone)

by DominicanAvenger on Dec 22, 2007 12:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

An Obligation To Your Seat in an Arena Experience
My opinion is, well, very opinionated if not harsh, and it if offends anyone, I apologize in advance.  

I believe a good fan goes to an arena for the arena experience and to support the team the best way a fan can show support in a live game situation.  I also believe a good fan should never put their own best interests before the interests of the team especially if they are considering squelching the support of another fan.

It gives me anxiety when the crowd is not into the game, (not standing, not yelling, not clapping, not appearing to pay attention) and they turn to stare at someone who yells something supportive, tells others to sit down, and generally does not join in to show support. I believe it is harder for our team to play well when the crowd is not into the game. This is especially true during the first quarter or, lamentably, the first three quarters.  Our young team responds favorably to a supportive crowd.  The flat quarters for the team are often, not so coincidently, flat crowd quarters.  A common thread in the players' interviews is that they were buoyed to extra effort by the fans. Somehow people think it is enough to buy the ticket.  I know, the team needs all the tickets to be bought.  But, once you buy that ticket, I believe, you have an obligation to the team for occupying/reserving that seat!  And, that obligation is to have that seat contribute to the sixth man crowd behavior for the sake of your team.  If you don't want to participate in an arena experience, experience the game elsewhere: a sports bar, a gathering of friends, or your very own Lazy-boy chair.

While it is unfortunate that due to limitations, some fans cannot show support standing up or have difficulty with the up and down.  Being supportive to the best of their ability is all that can be expected.  But, I believe, that once their behavior crosses the line into attempting to suppress the outpouring of the fandom, they go too far!  Someone has to be the first one to stand or yell. Some fans have to be the first five to stand or yell.  If everyone feels inhibited to begin sixth man fan behavior, we will fail our team.  So take courage and enjoy the ride!

The first obligation is to show up.  Empty, although purchased, seats are a downer for the team and increase the fanload for the others fans.  I'm not sure that's a word, but if it isn't, it should be.  Just like someone absent from my team at work increases the workload for those who are there, the other fans have to increase their output to get the same outcome.  If you've purchased a ticket and can't go to the game, give it away!  There have been games already this year with thousands of empty although purchased seats.  Wouldn't it be cool, if there was a place you could easily drop off donated tickets once you discovered you were unable to go to a game, and fans registered in the Blazer booster fan club could pick them up at will call on a first come first serve basis.  Tickets for advance games could be picked up or dropped off. It would be a real boon for some fans and a great outcome for the team with a little extra man-hours for the will call staff.

And about those time outs...I agree it drives me crazy to stand and cheer during the time out when the music gets the crowd rocking only to deflate once the time out is over.  The music is using the time out to get the crowd into the game.  Another really cool nudge is when Blaze thumps his drum to get the crowd going. Do we, as fans, respond well to that nudge, or do we assume that time out or drum thumping experience is for our own enjoyment only. Are we there for the time ourselves...? Or for the game!  Since I only have the quarter season package, I rockout to the time outs while watching the cable view at a friend's house.  We sing along to the familiar "We-Just-May-Win-This-Game,-Folks" songs as we flap our arms clapping.  My oh my, this is a fun time to be a Blazer fan.

by ladygonegrey on Dec 22, 2007 12:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

responsibility
This may also be part of why Autzen and Mac Court are among the most feared places to play in all of college sports--from the drunk college kids to the old rich boosters, everyone in there comes to wild out and make noise...our crowd knows they have a responsibility to uphold that reputation. i don't feel that at blazer games yet (although there are some sections that go above and beyond)

by DominicanAvenger on Dec 22, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

my dream
is for the rose garden to be just as much of a feared place to play by the time we're making our championship runs...

by DominicanAvenger on Dec 22, 2007 4:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Tuesday and friday I will be doing my part.
This is Portland. Portland loves the Blazers. Welcome to OUR house.

by ratbastird on Dec 22, 2007 5:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just sit back and enjoy the Show
I will stand up; jump up and down with the crowd when I feel like it. Depending on who's in front of me and what I can see, I may just sit back and ogle buttocks!  Young bucks with muscles or bouncy ones, depends on my mood.

You might want to pay attention to who is behind you and that seemingly incidental contact.

"Lenny Suckerpunch NEVER bet on me!" - Elizabeth "The Lizzard" Lowblow

by Lizzy Lowblow on Dec 22, 2007 5:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, sucking it now.
I am by nature a reticent and polite person.  I tend to expect that other people ought to be as aware of the effect of their actions on others as I try to be.  (As I am also kinda optimistic, I am often surprised.)  I guess I had been thinking that it was possible to be a good fan while remaining sitting (and, therefore, not blocking the view of any other fan).

And, yeah, the fact that I stand up for 40 plus hours a week makes me happy to not stand on concrete for any further amounts of time.

Thus, I have found it mildly irritating when people remain standing.  Not that I'm going to yell at you, but I may wish you'd sit down so that I may resume my seat and still see the play.

While I understand the surge to the feet in honor of a fine play--my home viewing tends to include this behavior, together with spastically waving arms and a hearty "[expletive] yeah!"--I thought it was reasonable to then sit back down.

I stand, so to speak, corrected.

by roseburgian on Dec 22, 2007 1:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Standing time
A basketball game is 48 minutes of game time spread out over 2+ hours of real time and interrupted by quarter breaks, a half-time show and time outs.  Uninterrupted standing during a game is so rare that I don't remember ever seeing it in the dozens of Rose Garden games I've been to. Most of the time it's just during the 4th quarter and in reaction to big plays. If you figure a dozen standing ovation plays with a hearty 30 seconds worth of stand up cheering involved plus the 12 minutes of fourth quarter game time, that adds up to less than 20 minutes worth of actual time on your feet. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. Furthermore, if you put in a little extra planning and pick your seats smartly (front rows of sections, aisle seats, etc.) you can guarantee that you can sit and see no matter what.

However, in order to guarantee that nobody who has sore feet ever has to stand and always gets an unimpeded view the only solution is to enforce either by rule or by custom/ettiquette that fans should always remain seated. Is there any other way you can think of to guarantee that the bad backed and sore footed always get an unimpeded seated view and never have to get up?

I think when you buy a ticket to a sporting event you shouldn't expect people to behave like they're at the opera. And the team gives plenty of options (now that the cable deal is worked out from what I hear) to see the team in the most comfortable way imaginable (myself, living far away from the Rose Garden and not having League Pass, I enjoy listening to the webstream in bed while I play my Xbox. It's been a good couple weeks). It might sound jerky, like "If you don't like my standing in your way, then go home and watch TV" it's only because I'd rather have the seats filled with people who love to stand and cheer than people who complain (or passive aggressively grumble and pout) about people standing and cheering.

by Jumbo on Dec 22, 2007 2:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm good with making accommodations.
And I knew this was gonna be a case of "where tongue in cheek is not readily apparent."

I think I was mostly responding to the "you cannot be a good fan if . . . " flavor of the thread--which kind of makes my teeth hurt.

But it's all good.

by roseburgian on Dec 23, 2007 2:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

those options on the polls
were included more as jokes, hence the functional legs option

by DominicanAvenger on Dec 23, 2007 6:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice :)
I can understand where you're coming from.

My feelings on this is that standing generates excitement generate and tremendous energy that can shock and awe the other team into huge momentum changes.  There's a reason the Jazz have such an excellent home record, they have a LOUD crowd.  You only need to look so at the 77 blazers to see the effect this kind of atmosphere has.  Down two in the playoff games... the blazers then came home and proceeded to win four straight.  http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbac om/nbatv/vault_107_block_a.asx&video=&nbasite=nbaQuietness

We as fans can change the energy of the players and the game.  The excitement of a live game is why many fans WANT to attend and standing energizes people.  

It's OUR house and opposing fans should be uncomfortable and SILENCED by our shouts for our team.  It's also our duty to make opposing fans stand for our team by not letting them sit.

My personal feelings on the matter.

I'm a bit of a rabid fan though.  I'm pretty sure you can see the foam dripping from my mouth.

This is Portland. Portland loves the Blazers. Welcome to OUR house.

by ratbastird on Dec 22, 2007 5:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I particularly like:
"It's also our duty to make opposing fans stand for our team by not letting them sit."

by drawingjeremy on Dec 22, 2007 6:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Stand and be considerate
The rule is: Basketball arenas are for rowdy fans who want to stand up and cheer actively. Your couch and your tv are the best options for those of you who want to sit and watch the game. When you buy a ticket to a seat you also buy the right to decide whether or not you want to sit in it. So if standers make you grumpy, there really are much more comfortable ways to support the team where you get unimpeded views.

That said, standers should try as best as they can to accommodate people behind them who complain. Scooching a little one way or the other, cheating into the aisle, taking the 1st and 2nd quarters off, are all reasonable things the rowdy fan can do to limit the damage he does to his neighbors. But on the flip side, if you're view is blocked, try to be a little proactive yourself: strain your neck a bit, offer to switch seats with a stander, do what you gotta do to see the game.

If both sides can put in a little effort, show some respect, and never assume that your "rule" is the right rule everybody can have a good time at the game. I think there are only too true "jerk" situations: the guy who stands the whole game and acts intimidatingly toward people who complain. And the guy who sits the whole game and does nothing but complain and act pissy about people standing. If everybody can just moderate their positions from those two extremes, I think we can all have a good time.

by Jumbo on Dec 22, 2007 2:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

One thing that I really think can help
everyone enjoy their experience more is to use the JumboTron as a crutch.  The new one is awesome.  If your view is blocked for a period of time look above.  I guarantee you'll be able to follow.  I rarely get annoyed at standing (though think there are periods of time that don't make a whole lot of sense), but sometimes catch myself beginning to get frustrated at people coming in and out of MY row.  I've found that if I am going to that dark place I simply need to look up, ignore the offender and realize that it will all be over soon.  

If you are in a someone who has a hard time standing, or don't want to stand I am empathetic to the situation, but know that it's not realistic to be able to see the entire game without using the JumboTron as a crutch almost no matter where you are.  You might also look into if you could purchase seats in one of the areas that was set up for disabled fans, there are usually open seats in some of these areas, they have a lot of space, and  you are in a pretty protected section.  I know this may not help someone who just doesn't want to be on your feet all day, but I'm pretty sure if you are or are bringing someone who really has a hard time getting up or down, etc... that they would consider these seats appropriate options for you, this is the area that we target when we bring my mother-in-law.  

I read above that standing is especially common and accepted on the 300 level, I find it to be especially common in the end-zones on the 100 level, perhaps it's especially common everywhere when we are competing?  

Finally, I think this will be all the more important as we continue to climb in the coming years:  Make sure you have the right expectations when going to games... people will stand, that's part of the live experience, people will probably stand a lot in the fourth quarter, especially during the most exciting (aka close) games.  There are times I don't feel like getting up and down, but if I'm in the general seating populous I expect it whether I'm tired or not, whether my back and knees are up for it or not.  If you expect this coming into the arena then those people standing in front of you don't have to ruin your experience, and if they would I'd highly recommend trying to get in the sections I described above or watching from home (as much as we want the seats filled with true fans).

by drawingjeremy on Dec 22, 2007 2:21 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Asking people
to remain seated is asking them to go against human nature.  You instinctively leap to your feet when you are excited.  I laugh every game as Martell sets up for a three - everyone leans forward and half rises, waits - then if it is missed they sink back down, but if it goes in they don't always stand, but their arms go up like a referee signalling a touchdown.  But the lean forward half-rise is almost universal and so synchronized it looks choreographed.  

I don't object to people standing to cheer (and I was up & down all throughout the game and up for most of the last few of minutes.  But what I find much more annoying is the parade of young men in the row below me - usually 3 at a time to go get a beer, and then 3 at a time to go to the bathroom (I guess), and then another beer, and then another potty stop ...  Trying to see around the standing people in front of me as the parade squeezes by them is nearly impossible (and I can't see the Jumbotron because I'm up too high for it to be above them.)  I wish they'd time their depatures for timeouts and maybe wait to return to their seats until the next one.  (Talk about women having to go to the bathroom in a group..!)  

by jorga on Dec 22, 2007 7:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry the JumboTron trick doesn't work for
your seats jorga, that would get my goat too!  I didn't realize there were any seats that couldn't see it with someone standing at this point, it's been a real pressure deflater for me.

by drawingjeremy on Dec 22, 2007 11:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way
Discussions like this are one of the reasons I love this blog.

Six pages on the philosophy and etiquette of standing during games.  Priceless.

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 22, 2007 11:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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