I hate to say it but...........

by DropstepJ on Dec 20, 2007 10:07 AM PST Comment 19 comments

That Brandon Roy phenomenal highlight that Ive been replaying all morning............well..........he traveled.
I know it doesnt really matter, but Ive always held a little contempt for Dwyane Wade and his "go to" travel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WI0VZcapto&feature=related

Watch closely to the moment Brandon stops dribbling and count the steps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvLneb_iBIA

Look, I love Brandon as much as anyone and that was one of the most beautiful plays Ive seen from a Blazer player in decades.
It just would have been a little sweeter if it was leagal.

jans

0 recs | Comment 19 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I think you're right, was sitting right in front

of it, but if we are starting to get some ref love, I'll take it! I'm looking forward to the day when many on our team get the calls.

by drawingjeremy on Dec 20, 2007 10:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

looks like you are correct

but this is the NBA, where mediocre players are allowed 3 steps, stars are allowed 4 and LeBron is allowed 5.

by jksnake99 on Dec 20, 2007 10:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

after checking out the highlight last night. But is it really traveling? Those are legit steps the way the NBA is called. Just how they don't call 3 in the key until more than 5 seconds, and everyone steps into the lane early on FT's but lane violation whistles are rare (despite one last night).

Those Wade traveling clips are pretty brutal, but I think he gets away with it because it's such a fast move in real time which makes it hard to spot the sliding pivot foot... that and Wade gets special treatment. But that is an intentionally deceptive move on Wade's part.

I don't know if Roy expected to get away with extra steps or if he just took what the refs give everyone in the league. Technically it's steps, but the NBA is not a purist's league.

by shralpster on Dec 20, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I feel you

and your right, its not a purist league.
but part o the downfall of this league is the fact that the players are taught to decieve the refs. Brandon is such a good guy that I would love his claim to fame to be that he an do it inside the rules. Im not saying that this travel is any indication that Brandon is trying to decieve anyone, he is legit.
I just have a feeling that this is a highlight we'll see many, many times in his career.

by DropstepJ on Dec 20, 2007 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Some "rules" are flexible

There are ZERO all time greats who did not decieve the refs in a variety of ways to serve the team's needs. I think Roy should get more praise if he figures out the NBA enough to know how to get the same in-game advantage that guys like Jordan, Barkeley, Wade, K*be, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan, etc and so forth and onwards.

Whether it's lobbying the refs to get future calls, "gliding" a pivot foot, or allowing a little push and a shove on both sides of the ball, things have always been this way.

Our players are classy, great guys who do not cheat... it is how the game is played. Having great skill in how you hide 'the game' is one of the many things that seperates the greats from the goods (and a lil' help from the refs doesn't hurt).

I need to watch the highlight again (my 'puter I'm on now is too slow), but I am not even totally convinced it's a complete travel. But, I only watch the NBA and maybe it has mutated my "daffynition" of a travel. To me, Roy stepped-hopped-jumped, which is fine n' dandy and in the tradition of his finest herk-jerky-unpredictable moves.

Brandon Roy is playing simply amazing... amongst the greats in the entire NBA. If this play goes on his all-time highlights reel, it isn't anywhere as "bad" as Jordan's push off or Wade's 5 steps.

I know you aren't anywhere close to complaining about Roy at ALL, but we gotta be happy Roy can play the NBA game! He is THE NATURAL!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Dec 20, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good call, DropstepJ

One of my pet peeves is the "relaxing" of the travelling rule in the NBA. To me it's the parallel of the steroid craze in baseball. Stay with me now: casual baseball fans love home runs and don't care if players cheat to achieve then. Casual basketball fans love spectacular finishes and don't care if players cheat to achieve them. Each form of cheating cheapens the game by devaluing the real thing. See the parallel now? And in each case, the powers that be--owners, t.v. networks, etc.--have approved the cheating with a wink & a nod.

Having said all that, I'm ashamed to say that last night I didn't notice that Roy had travelled on that play. But that's just the homer in me. Come on: Roy might as well have put on a football helmet, tucked the ball under his arm, and straightarmed someone: he was running like a running back thru those first couple of defenders (although the finish around Bosh WAS nice).

The travelling rule is actually very simple and straightforward, as that Wade clip demonstrates. Once you establish your pivot foot, you can't touch it down again before releasing the ball. So you're allowed 1 1/2 steps--not 2, 3, or 4 as we routinely see NBA players getting away with these days (let alone that travesty called the "jump stop").

Bring back the travelling call!! But until you do, go ahead, Brandon, Jarrett, Travis, et al: take what the refs are giving. Because your opponents sure are.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 20, 2007 12:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

not quite right

when stopping your dribble, you are allowed to use a "two count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball."

When Brandon picked up the ball, his right foot was on the ground. He then took two steps and went off his right foot, which is traveling.

It was actually pretty close- if he'd picked the ball up a split second later (and his right foot was off the ground), the play would have been legal. This was indeed traveling but not to an absurd degree.

Traveling rule explained on NBA.com
http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_10.html?nav=ArticleList

by jksnake99 on Dec 20, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No--read the rule again

I admit that the wording of the travelling rule is confusing. But much of the verbiage concerns how to determine which foot is the pivot foot under various circumstances (e.g., when you receive the ball in midair). That issue aside, the rule is pretty straightforward: "If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor."

In the play in question, it's obvious that, having established his pivot foot, Roy lifts and replaces it--more than once, probably. Lacking clearer video, I couldn't say with certainty whether he took 3 or 4 steps before going airborne. But it was clearly more than the 1 1/2 that the rule allows.

I'll grant you this, though: by current NBA standards, Roy's was hardly a flagrant violation. Ever since the late days of Magic and Bird's careers, top NBA players have been allowed to pick up the ball around the foul line and run all the way to the hoop with it. The recent supposed tightening of the travelling rule has been very selective: refs continually call guys for pulling up their pivot foot before initiating their dribble from the perimeter. But the "run to the hoop" move is still ignored, because it results in spectacular finishes.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 20, 2007 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry- still not quite right

The key is that Roy was coming to a stop. The rule is a little different for a player coming to a stop or "receiving the ball" than it is for a player who has already picked up the ball and established position.

Say a player has the ball in the post and is not dribbling but rather giving a series of fakes. In this case, you are correct- "If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor."

The "two count rhythm" is allowed when receiving a pass or picking up the ball after dribbling. Roy took probobly a 2.5 to 3 count rhythm so again I'm not disputing that it was traveling, just that it wasn't as egregious as it may appear.

by jksnake99 on Dec 20, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What kind of "rhythm" do you mean?

As I read the rule--which is not well-written, I think we could agree--the term is not actually temporal. It's a counting device used in labeling the various stages of the establishment of the pivot foot and ensuing movement. The establishment of the pivot foot is clearly more problematic under circumstances of a) receiving the ball while in motion or b) at the conclusion of your dribble. Thus the "two count rhythm" section of the rule. Things get pretty convoluted in that section, and there's certainly some grey area in interpretation--particularly in a fast-moving scenario.

But however you come down on the question of when Roy established his pivot foot in the play at issue, he certainly re-planted that foot prior to going airborne. Thus, he travelled.

Actually, we seem to agree on that bottom line. So let's agree to disagree on the rest of it. The fact is, travelling on drives to the basket is so flagrant these days that the rule might as well be written in Greek for all that it's followed. What Roy did after leaving his feet was incredible, and that's what'll be remembered.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 20, 2007 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

it does seem like we may be arguing a minor point here.

it was an amazing play, even if it did bend the rules.

by jksnake99 on Dec 21, 2007 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is traveling

A character issue?

Randee of the Redwoods '08

by tominhawaii on Dec 20, 2007 1:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely!

It starts innocently enough, getting away with traveling during the game. But where does it go from here? Next, Roy will be traveling to the store to get groceries. But next to the grocery store is a liquor store. I may be innocent enough to then buy a fifth of scotch to celebrate the winning streak, but at the rate the Blazer's are winning, a fifth of Scotch every night makes one drunk quickly. Next, Roy will be traveling every night to bars and strip clubs, starting fights in his drunken stupor. Then he will travel with the wrong crowd all the way to even more embarrassing incidents and soil the reputation of the Blazers forever. All the worst things happen while traveling.

by T Darkstar on Dec 20, 2007 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You cracked me up

Then my coworker said, "what" and I had no answer because he would not understand.

Randee of the Redwoods '08

by tominhawaii on Dec 20, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Getting in drunken brawls in strip clubs is OK

As long as you don't take more than 1 1/2 steps before dribbling. Er, drooling.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 20, 2007 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oops--wrong regulation

You're not even allowed to lift your pivot foot before dribbling--or drooling, presumably.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 20, 2007 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice call!

by drawingjeremy on Dec 20, 2007 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True Hoop weighs in

I just read a Henry Abbott blog that begins this way:

"People are fired up in Portland. A nine-game winning streak. Some Hollinger stats saying the team is likely to make the playoffs. And the highlight of the year so far. [link to video of Roy's move vs the Raptors] (You know Brandon Roy is big time -- otherwise he wouldn't get away with so many steps!)"

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 20, 2007 3:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs