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Sportsmanship or Gamesmanship?

NBA basketball has rules. They were instilled for the safety of the players and to provide a level standard of play for both teams. We all know the rules are not strictly enforced and much is left to the discretion of the officials - for example, hand-checking, "star" treatment, home-crowd pressure and downright bias against certain players.

There is another category of intentional rules violation we are also well aware of which usually takes place in close quarters, behind the official's back. These are the elbows in the kidneys or knees to the groin intended to inflict pain and send a message. Think Bill Laimbeer or Karl Malone...as extreme examples. Less extreme examples might include anything from verbal threats to spitting on an opponent.

One of the indictments against our current team has been a lack of toughness. My subject for your discussion includes these questions: Is there a place within the game for these sometimes-not-so-subtle physical suggestions? Can a line be drawn between "competitive spirit" and "covert flagrant foul"? If so, where is that line? Can these acts be included in an attitude of toughness? Is it a level playing field if one team strives to play strictly within the rules? Is there a classy way to play a little bit dirty? The questions could go on...

I'd love to get your input on this matter.

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There's a really thin line I think
Between holding your own, and wanting to hurt someone.  Somewhere along the way the NBA morphed into a bunch of grabbing and holding - though it has gotten better the last couple of years with some of the new rules.  But the point is that you have almost zero chance of surviving in the NBA if you aren't willing to dish out a little punishment.

by leeroyjenkins on Dec 13, 2007 9:53 AM PST reply actions  

This is a topic that does bother me
I guess I'm a lover not a fighter.  As much as I respect backing a home team, etc. when a foul is committed I don't boo the refs when it's called against my team (sometimes I need the replay to be sure).  On the other hand I am very bothered by fouls that were intended to inflict pain or discomfort if for no other reason than because they can cause serious injury, and these athletes and teams need their players as healthy as possible.  Legitimate injuries will happen on the court.  I like the rule changes that have been imposed but would go a step further and say that they are in my opinion not quite there.  Keep in mind that we are growing bigger, stronger players than used to be the norm in basketball... consequently injury can be more severe

I'd love to see an extension of the flagrant foul rule escalating the flagrant penalty (possibly immediate suspension w/o pay for a few games, and if you get, lets say somewhere around 3 or 4 in a given season you're suspended for a really large chunk of games w/o pay (say 25 or so).  This would obviously have to be used very sparingly, it has to be completely obvious that that player in question was absolutely trying to inflict harm - I'd also be pro tape reviews on any and all of these calls as a requirement).  A lesser flagrant that would be treated the way the current flagrant is treated.  This lesser flagrant would be applied when it is suspected that a player may have intentionally committed a foul that might have been the more severe flagrant but there isn't conclusive evidence suggesting that the offender was doing something that clearly crossed a line.  I'd site the recent foul on Joel committed by Shaq as a perfect example of this.  I don't know if he was trying to hurt Joel or not but suspect that the foul could have been much softer if Shaq had chosen to make it softer (still would have been a hard foul).

As for off the ball contact.  I'd apply the same rules to on and off the ball with regards to the intent to inflict discomfort or pain.

My take on how we should play, assuming the rules stay as they currently are I'd be very pro us playing in whatever way the league finds acceptable considering timing of our team.  What I mean by this is that right now I think it would not make much sense for us to be too tough off the ball because we won't get the calls until we mature a little bit more, but it's a balancing act, if the other team is really gritting it up, we shouldn't back down and should match their level of physical play.  If the rules are the same in a few years once we are getting more calls then I'd step up the toughness even more as a standard matter of practice.  I'm for making the most out of whatever rules the league has in place at the time.  

That said I still would like to see the penalties for a true, obviously inappropriate flagrant get much harsher.  To me this is the way to keep the whole league as healthy as possible, and account for the massive increase in physical strength that most players have today.  There will still be plenty of legitimate injuries that take people out of the game for extended periods of time... that's part of basketball.

by drawingjeremy on Dec 13, 2007 11:07 AM PST reply actions  

Good topic
and I imagine you're going to get a pretty broad range of replies.

I agree very much with drawingjeremy's opinion.  The hard part is proving intent.  Shaq's foul on Joel looked intentional - or rather the rough follow through did.  Could he have dropped the ball or made sure it didn't hit Joel's face?  I suspect "yes", but I don't know for sure.  I'd like to know if anyone in the NBA reviewed those scenes (and been a bug on the wall during the discussion.)  

Last night Raef committed a "hard foul" (according to the Mikes) and that's the kind I like to see the Blazer's make ... he used his entire body, not an arm or an elbow or a knee.  It wasn't intended to hurt the player, just get him out of the way.  I see way too many elbows to chins and knees to groins that look intentional and I would rather my team didn't play that way.  Let's win by our skill, not by our ability to incapacitate the opposition.  What "message" is the perp sending other than "I am a goon"?  Now a retaliatory (?) foul is something else - Magloire was good at that last year - you hurt my teammate so you must suffer too.  But, please Blazers, don't start it!  (I think Raef's foul last night was in retaliation for someone hitting one of our littler guys too hard.)

by jorga on Dec 13, 2007 12:47 PM PST reply actions  

Cheaters win
It's that simple, you won't win a championship unless you play a little dirty, at least to just defend yourself against teams like Utah or San Antonio, who are more than happy to gouge, elbow, and knee their way to victory.

by robrun2 on Dec 13, 2007 4:27 PM PST reply actions  

If a team is good enough I don't think
that is necessary, though I'll acknowledge that is the MO of teams like San Antonio and Utah, plus a dash of whining.  Though they had enforcers I don't recall that being a requirement with the Bulls dynasty, nor the 80s Celtics or 80s L*kers...  I'm sure I could go back further but we'd be getting earlier then "my time".  I hope we end up with a team that won't back down to an opponent but won't play dirty either, that's a team I can be proud of.  Frankly I wouldn't be crazy about last years title if I were a San Antonio fan, sure I'd take it, but to me the penalties disbursed and not disbursed in the Phoenix series will forever put that very title in question.

by drawingjeremy on Dec 13, 2007 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I totally agree
Teams start playing dirty because they are not good enough to rely on their skills alone.  I personally don't feel that is something to be proud of.  Of course some coaches just preach the dirty play which is equally not cool.  You want to hit and hurt people?  There are sports designed for that, (boxing, UFC, etc.) get off of the ball court and go play there.  Sorry if I come off strong, but I feel pretty strongly about this.  Players that play with grace and skill and goodsportsmanship are the ones the you respect and admire.  Karl Malone?  I hate his freakin guts.  After he elbowed Bryan Grant in the head twice (twice) in the same game, drawing blood both times, I felt (and still feel) that he should have been banned for life.  Yes, you read that right, for life.  I don't feel like there's any place for play like that at all in the NBA.  Unfortunately (because of the money) there's no way anyone would make a decision of that magnitude.  Ok, sorry.  I'm done.

by coolguyrob on Dec 13, 2007 10:06 PM PST up reply actions  

oops
I meant twice in the same playoff series.

by coolguyrob on Dec 13, 2007 10:34 PM PST up reply actions  

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