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Around SBN: Holy War Week Brings out the Worst in Fans

Drawing Lines

I've heard a lot of speculation lately on how good/talented our players really are.  It's a tricky subject given their age and because a lot of production comes from fitting in with your teammates and team philosophy.  Stars in some cities become disappointments in others and vice versa.

Nevertheless since we have an off-day today let's discuss the matter a little.  How good do you think our players are on the wholly-fictitious "average" NBA team?

For purposes of easy comparison let's make four categories:

STAR
STARTER
SUB
SCRUB

Which players fit under which categories on a "normal" team?  You may explain/clarify your responses all you want but try to use our categories as a springboard so there's some unity to the conversation.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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Display:

Right now:
STARS
None.

STARTERS
Roy
LMA
Blake (on the right team)
Pryz (on the right team)

SUBS
Martell
Jack

SCRUBS
Channing (borderline, headed in the right direction)
Travis (also borderline, headed in the wrong direction)
McRob
Taurean
Sergio
Raef
Darius

N/A until we get to see them in action
Oden
James Jones

by rockingharder on Nov 27, 2007 1:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Someday:
STARS
LMA
Roy
Oden

STARTERS
Martell
Taurean
Blake (on the right team)
Pryz (on the right team)

SUBS
Jack
Channing
Sergio
James Jones

SCRUBS
Travis (if he doesn't get it this year, I don't think he ever will)
McRob
Raef
Darius

by rockingharder on Nov 27, 2007 1:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Today, not in the future, many will improve
Roy STARTER (like Aldridge can't quite say star yet, if we are calling it a 70 star league I'd say he and Aldridge are stars, but if we say there are 25 stars, no more than 50, they haven't broken that plateau yet)
Aldridge STARTER (see above)
Webster SUB (if he's playing shooting guard he may even be a starter on a decent number of teams, as small forward I wouldn't say he's reached that point yet)
Jack SUB (solid combo guard off the bench, whether he likes it or not it will be his career, at least the most impressive points, and he'll be very good at this role, already can play it well)
Outlaw SUB-SCRUB (scrub is too much hatin', SUB is definitely too much love, he'd be a spark guy off the bench w/o lots of PT, brought in selectively)
Blake SUB (solid, steady back-up guard)
Frye SCRUB-SUB (he's a decent rebounder, but he seems to contribute so little in other ways the majority of the time, unfortunately I think he has to be well onto the scrub side of sub.)
Jones SUB (I assume... don't know his game well at all, hasn't really played "healthy" for us, I'm guessing sub in reality, though if it were based only on the start of the season he'd be well into scrub land)
Przybilla SUB (most teams would be really happy to have Joel as a back up center, he's a smart player, a nose for the ball, and a great blocker)
LaFrentz SCRUB (now, garbage time has been the only productive time in years, I'd love to be proven wrong on this)
Green SCRUB (not enough PT, but the little he's had hasn't shown much to suggest sub is in line)
Rodriguez SCRUB-SUB (I'm a Sergio advocate, but he wouldn't be the back-up on many teams yet, he's improving on what Nate wants him to improve at though, when he reaches a point and Nate lets him bring back some of his more natural tendencies with what he's learned he'll be there then... he'll make it)
McRoberts SCRUB (until he proves otherwise, I know he hasn't had a legit game time situation to show us yet)

by drawingjeremy on Nov 27, 2007 1:25 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Brandon and LMA are the only two legit NBA players
The rest are scrubs, the rest are guys who probably wouldn't play on most NBA teams.  I thought guys like TO and Martell would turn out to be a little better than they were, but clearly I was mistaken.  Of those two, only Martell still has a chance to hang in this league and he's close.  Either JJ or Blake would be a second or third string PG on most teams.  Prz is the same as a center.  Frye sucks.  Sergio is a long way away if he can play in the NBA at all.  

by leeroyjenkins on Nov 27, 2007 5:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

sheesh harsh
Harsh on Martell....the guy is 20 years old (ok he turns 21 in a week) and in his third year is reacting well to starter minutes. If he'd gone to college for two years and this was his rookie campaign  we'd be doing backflips over his 13 points, 5 rebounds and solid three point shooting. Give Martell the chance to develop more...

Blazer fans have no patience for the high school to NBA jump....I blame LeBron....

by nlj on Nov 27, 2007 2:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As I see it In two years and a half years:
Stars
   Oden, LaMarcus, Brandon
Starters
   Martell, Rose
Subs
   Joel, James, Rudy, Steve, Zbo
Subsubs
   Sergio, Channing, Travis
Out of the league
   Petteri, Taurean, Raef, Darius, Freeland, Ime, Jamaal, Fred Jones, Dan Dickau, etc.

A championship caliber squad.

It's worth noting that our stars might not be stars elsewhere. Obviously we'll develop them and use them in the way that serves the unique mix on our roster and the KP/Nate style of play and culture.

Meaning Brandon and Martell are only as good as they are because of where they are.

by ojala on Nov 27, 2007 5:56 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Derrick Rose
Derrick Rose is a PG at Memphis.
The Rose Garden is our House.

by JTDuck22 on Nov 27, 2007 7:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LMA the star
Star:
LMA  (He's the prototypical scoring PF with "length" and great defensive instincts.  Teams without Duncan, KG, etc would KILL for him. He's getting nearly 20 and 10 right now, and is still so young.)

Starters:
Roy (He's great and I love him, but he plays the most replacable position there is.  Obviously, he's also valuable for his leadership and maturity, but I don't know how to factor that in.)

Subs:
Pryz
Jack
Blake
Martell
TO
Channing
Sergio

Scrubs:
Raef, Darius

by rmcdougall on Nov 27, 2007 7:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree about LMA and Roy
Stars: LMA

Starters: Roy and Pryzbilla (on some teams)

Subs: Martell, Jack, Blake, Jones

Garbage Minutes: Outlaw, and Frye

Scrubs: Sergio, Raef,

The Rose Garden is our House.

by JTDuck22 on Nov 27, 2007 7:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As I see it...
I think it's almost hard for most Blazer fans to understand what a "normal" NBA team is these days. First, I know it's entirely possible to over estimate the worth of your own players, however I think you HAVE to give some lee-way for the overall youth an inexperience of our team... Not to mention the fact that many of them are still learning how to play together.

Assuming these players had a chance to develop behind veterans, as they usually would on a 'normal' NBA team, here's my best guess at an unbiased ranking...

STARS:
LaMarcus - I think he's the only one who legitimately belongs on this list. When the talent around him matures, and a few other pieces are added, he has the potential to be scary on a Kevin Garnett level... The only thing remaining to be seen is if he has the competitive fire to take him there. He's often far too passive on the court.
Roy - I'm putting him here because I think he's a savvy player who will find his way through this early season difficulty. He's far too smooth and too intelligent to remain average. He'll never be a leading scorer, but his ability to elevate his game when needed, and to make those around him better, can not be underestimated.
Oden - Assuming he comes back at 85% of his former self or better (and unless the Blazers are sugar-coating the situation, that seems likely), Oden has the potential to be a Shaq-like monster. With an insane ability to defend, plenty of upside offensively and the kind of personality that advertising agencies drool over, Oden is poised to dominate this town for years to come... That's assuming the lingering cloud of medical doubt ever clears up long enough.

STARTERS: (This is the tough one)
Pryzbilla - Though he's often not the starter on our team, and certainly won't be when Oden gets back, I think he'd be a shoe-in on most other teams... especially in the east. With a dearth of decent centers across the league, Joel would fit the bill for a lot of teams... and I think his offensive game still has room to improve.
Webster - I'll give Martell the nod here not so much based on his past performance as his future potential. Should he continue to improve at the rate he did last year to this, and should the coaches ever trust him to do more than simply hoist open(ish) jumpers, he would be a welcome addition to any front line. Especially on teams with a dominant inside game (which we will hopefully have next year), someone like Martell is a welcome addition. He's no Rashard Lewis, and he'll never be, but he's been the steadiest player on the Blazers this year.

SUBS:
Jack - 2nd string PG/SG. Versatile and talented, but frequently crumbles under pressure. Still, he's a good change-of-pace guard to keep other teams honest. If he keeps up the pace this year he'd have to be at least a candidate for sixth man of the year (good luck though, with Jason Terry in the mix).
Frye - Just barely. Still, his athletisicm and shooting touch make him difficult to pass up. Here's hoping his recent slump really is due simply to an adjustment period and getting back into shape... I doubt it though. Frye simply lacks the competitive fire to be effective for long stretches.
Jones - Hard to say for sure, but with Phoenix he showed enough ability to make himself useful in small stretches. Until we see more out of him, we'll have to assume he's a good 12-15 minute sub. Besides, when was decent outside shooting NOT enough to keep an NBA player collecting a check?
Blake - He's one of those guys you always want to count out, but you just can't. He's almost never flashy, almost always consistent. Until recently he's been near the top of the league in assist-to-turnover ratio. He's struggled recently, but overall I think he's the kind of steady influence a young team needs. If he could win the starting job in Denver playing alongside Allen Iverson and do well, he could win it anywhere... well, assuming the first string QB goes down.

SCRUBS: (The rest of the rest)
Green - Too green to know. Could be a solid backup, most likely will be a complete bust. His college experience could lead to a leadership ability, but there's a reason he fell as low as he did in the draft.
Rodriguez - Oh how I wish this weren't true, but I've seen enough of Sergio to believe he's just not a complete enough player to become anything more than a third-string PG in this league. I keep hoping his shortcomings lie in his difficulty with the language, but that shouldn't be the case anymore. I think Portland will continue to give him chances, but if they saw a chance to get something of value for him in a trade they would jump at it.
Outlaw - Oh Travis, Travis, Travis... Unbridaled athletic talent... can jump over almost anyone in the gym, shows flashes of brilliance... but he just doesn't get the fundamentals of the game (emphasis on the mentals). I'm not saying Travis is dumb, he simply doesn't work hard enough to overcome his deficiencies. I had the same issue with Darius Miles. Great talent, but far too little ball-handling ability. Sometimes it looks like he's still growing into his body, but five years into his career you'd love to see more skill... if nothing else you'd like to see him covering those mistakes with better hustle.
Miles - Speaking of Darius... the less said the better. If the Blazers were worried about the weight gain Oden had after his surgery they ought to be despondent about what happened to Darius. The fact we've heard little to none in the way of updates since the season started doesn't bode well either.
LaFrentz - Too old. Too slow. LaFrentz just doesn't have it in him anymore. Given a proper chance he might produce something helpful, but that's just not going to happen. Sorry Raef... But thanks for the salary cap relief in a couple of years!
McRoberts - I think of all the new Blazers, outside of Oden, McRob intrigues me the most. During Summer league he showed some great passing, better than expected athletisicm and a decent jumper. I'll include him as a scrub until he's had a year to mature, but he could be the passing, banging, shooting big man we need off the bench. I'd say his odds are 80% bust, 20% stud. Portland's beaten worse odds than that, so there's always hope.

by ChrisB803 on Nov 27, 2007 8:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

With a nod to rockingharder
STARS
None.

STARTERS
Roy
LMA
Blake (on the right team)
Pryz (on the right team)

SUBS
Martell
Jack

SCRUBS
Channing
Travis
Taurean
Sergio
Raef
Darius

N/A until we get to see them in action
Oden
James Jones
McRob

On one hand it appears rather bleak.  But I think we still have a fairly bright future.

Aldridge should graduate into the star category.
Roy doesn't have to be a star to be the linchpin of the team.  17 pts, 5 rebounds and 4 assists may not be "star" quality, but it is the type of workman like performance that can be depended on night in and night out.
Oden becomes our 3rd starter and should eventually join Aldridge in the star category.
Webster still has the potential to be a solid starter and possibly sneak into the lower reaches of star (like Roy).

That gives us 7 solid rotation players.  Leaving perhaps 2 spots to fill.  Perhaps we get one out of the group of Sergio, McRoberts, Jones, Green and Rudy.  That's not an unreasonable expectation.  Leaving the draft, trades, the mid-level exception and FA signings to fill the last spot.

by timg56 on Nov 27, 2007 8:07 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Right here... right now?
Stars

Starters
   Roy
   Aldridge
   Blake - proved it in Denver

Subs
   Jack - adequate sixth or seventh man
   Martell
   Przy - always has been the perfect backup
   Sergio - can't scrub that energy factor
   Travis - I feel generous today

Scrubs
   Frye
   Raef - these two explain our woes in the paint

Need more information
   McRoberts
   J. Jones
   Green
   Miles
   

" If you can do it in black wingtips, it aint a sport!" Ken

by Dr Dave on Nov 27, 2007 8:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wrong personnel around the Stars and Starters
I think we have a solid team but, they need to grow up a bit. Take my Stars and Starters and add in a few solid role players and you have a great team. The problem is that our role players don't know their role.

Missing the one guy with a killer instinct.

Stars:
LMA  (Needs a stronger post-up game)
ODEN (will be anyway)
Roy  (Pippen type guy)

Starters:
Pryz   (Needs more playing time on this team this year - little bias)
Blake  (Classic pass first and solid pg.)

Subs:
Jack
Martell
Jones
Sergio (Would be better in places like Suns, Dallas, GS)

Scrubs:
TO (I like the guy but still; Could be a great sub on a team like Suns, Dallas, GS)
Frye  (Have no faith in this guy, but still a good trade)
Raef
Darius (Could be a starter if he played to his potential)

Not Sure:
Green - Sub
McRoberts - Sub

Przybilla needs more minutes..

by pryzistheman on Nov 27, 2007 8:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

On a typical playoff team...
STARS
Aldridge- I think he could be the leading scorer on a few playoff teams.

STARTERS
Roy
Przybilla, on a few playoff clubs
Blake, as we saw with Denver

SUBS
Jack
Webster
James Jones (though he did make a number of starts for the Suns last year).
Outlaw (I'm getting close to dropping him into the scrub category though)

SCRUBS
Frye
Sergio (I don't think many playoff clubs would trust him)
Green
McRoberts
LaFrentz

N/A
Oden
Miles

by jksnake99 on Nov 27, 2007 8:56 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Gloves off
Stars
Lamarcus Aldridge

Starters
Brandon Roy

Subs
Jarrett Jack
Steve Blake
Joel Pryzbilla

Scrubs
Everybody else

Oden is probably a Starter but I don't even know at this point. Dude could be a bust. He hasn't played a full season against 7 foot men yet so we have no idea how he'll do in the League.

by Jumbo on Nov 27, 2007 9:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

haha
nice try.  How'd your guy Bynum do on that inbounds play?  

by BrailleTaser on Nov 27, 2007 9:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's low
I don't know where the punch-you-in-the-face key is on my keyboard is but once I find it you're at the top of my list. I got a Chalupa ticket signed by Joel Pryzbilla. My Blazerfan street cred is untouchable.

by Jumbo on Nov 27, 2007 11:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

za-zing!
play with fire, you get burnt.  Greg will not be a bust, no-way no-how.  We got the best player in the draft, by far.  We know how he can play, and he'll be a fixture.  If I erred by assuming you were a Lakers fan trying to get my mickey, then I apologize -- it is an unspeakable insult to call a Blazer fan something like that.

by BrailleTaser on Nov 27, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would agree with you...
...on my better days but these losses are making my grumpy.

by Jumbo on Nov 27, 2007 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So Far..
Hi.. I'm new to the website! :P

STAR
Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Alridge and next year Oden
This one is a no brainer, the reason they are struggling so much is because of star treatment, They just have to learn how to play through it.
STARTER
Webster, Blake, Pryzbilla
give Webster some time he's still learning.. from his mistakes and from his teammates.
SUB
Jack
Sergio
Taurean
James Jones
McRoberts
They all are pretty solid, I believe Taurean could be a starter.
SCRUB
Channing Frye
Travis Outlaw
Raef
Darius
I seriously think Channing and Travis have to start playing better, because so far they should of been traded or waived

About last game.. What kind of defense was that? I could only get to watch the highlights and they were trying to trap Hedo, but he just split it and layed it in? too many wide open shots and I do not know what was goin through Roy's head taking those ugly shots.

Webster For The THREE!

by BRoy4MVP on Nov 27, 2007 9:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Welcome!
You apparently think like me--I totally agree with your assessment.
"Now, we understand, you're a bug. And bugs will be bugs. But you're our bug now. Don't screw up, and you won't get squashed." - webted

by jamon51 on Nov 28, 2007 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts:
Stars:
Aldridge - Surely
Oden     - Maybe
Roy      - Hopefully

Starters:
Pryz     - Some Teams. Should be Blazers starter Until Oden can claim it.
Blake    - Some Teams

Subs:
Jack     - Thrives off bench
Martell  - may move up to starter with a little more experience.
Outlaw   - is running out of time in my opinion.
Sergio   - May move up or down.
Channing - ??
Raef     - past his prime
Josh     - I am anxious to see what he can do.
Taurean  - Too many point guards and too small.
Darius   - could be in any category with an attitude adjustment and a good work ethic.
Scrubs:
There are none. Any player that can make an NBA roster is not a scrub.

James

by sleeves on Nov 27, 2007 9:36 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

My take.
Right now we have zero stars.  Our best player is probably Roy, but he's probably in the 10-15th best shooting guard in the league category right now.

On an average team Roy, Aldridge and maybe Przybilla would start.  Blake would give the point guard a run for his money, but probably wouldn't start.

Frye, Jack, Webster, Jones and Outlaw would get some minutes off the bench, but all as specialists.  On a playoff team in a game that mattered each would be lucky to get five minutes.

Rodriguez and Green would only ever get garbage minutes, they are both projects, with Rodriguez much further along than Green.  An average team would be looking at where Rodriguez might be in three years, probably giving him a ton of time in summer league and maybe the NBDL to get him some burn.  McRoberts also would be a project version of a scrub.

Raef is probably a scrub.

Now, in three years I expect that Oden, Aldridge and Roy to be stars, Webster to be a starter, Rodriguez possibly a starter, certainly a bench player, and Blake, Jack, Outlaw, Frye, and Przybilla all to be solid bench players.  That's a solid playoff team, possibly a 50 win team.

by EnglandDan on Nov 27, 2007 10:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Rudy! Rudy!
no Rudy in your three year plan?  

by BrailleTaser on Nov 27, 2007 2:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oops, whisper it but I think there's a good chance
that Rudy Fernandez will be our starting 2, moving Roy to the three.  However, I haven't seen him play more than a few internet clips, he might be a complete flop.

by EnglandDan on Nov 27, 2007 4:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

three scenarios
now:

Stars: none

Starters: Aldridge, Roy

Subs: Blake, Jack, Webster, Pryzbilla (although he could start for some teams like Detroit right now)

Scrubs: everyone else

best-case scenario (2-3 years):

Stars: Aldridge, Oden, Roy

Starters: Webster

Subs: Rodriguez, Jack, Pryzbilla, Blake (won't be with the team), Miles (won't be with the team)

Scrubs: everyone else

Note that even in my best-case scenario we don't have a starting point guard ... I'm confident that we'll pick someone up though or put Roy at point more permanently.

More realistic scenario:

Stars: Aldridge, Oden (although this isn't necessarily a lock as many have pointed out)

Starters: Roy

Subs: Webster, Jack, Blake (not with team), Rodriguez, Pryzbilla

Scrubs: everyone else

Notes: Haven't seen Jones or McRob, so I left them out.  Outlaw is in the "scrub" category all across the board as far as I'm concerned.  I just hope we can get something decent for him in a trade.  Same goes for Frye.  Also, no way Green is ever a star or even a starter if he can't crack this rotation.  There's a reason he was picked late in the second round and that also might have something to do with the fact that we haven't heard a peep about him since the season started ...

As usual, take my opinions with the grain of salt that opinions should be taken with, especially on fan forums!

by kickbrass on Nov 27, 2007 10:07 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Prz
On a team with some scorers, where he could concentrate on the things he does well, he could start and be a very effecitve player.

On a team without scorers, there's not really a great spot for him.  It's only because there's no alternative that the Blazers are going to have to start him.  He's the only thing close to a center they have.  

If you've noticed, teams are leaving him wide open.  Like WIDE open, like "you couldn't score if I gave you nerf ball and a four-foot hoop" wide open.  In fact Joel shot once last night when the Magic did so and promptly air-balled a 15 footer.  So the team is pretty much playing four on five when they have the ball, which may account for a little bit of the offensive mess.  

In this sort of scenario, I think you have to rate Prz as a borderline scrub, because his contributions on defense don't outweigh his killing you on the offensive end.

by leeroyjenkins on Nov 27, 2007 11:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

These threads are hard to read
"Now, we understand, you're a bug. And bugs will be bugs. But you're our bug now. Don't screw up, and you won't get squashed." - webted

by jamon51 on Nov 27, 2007 11:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Better if you format them
like Jon did just below, with all the players' names in one line.

--Dave

by Dave on Nov 27, 2007 12:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I agree
Nice job, Jon.
"Now, we understand, you're a bug. And bugs will be bugs. But you're our bug now. Don't screw up, and you won't get squashed." - webted

by jamon51 on Nov 28, 2007 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

interesting topic
This is an interesting topic because it shows how high a percentage of the average Blazersedge poster is living in the future. Today's reality is the Blazers are not a playoff team, they are a below average team.

On an average team? None of these guys are stars today. On a mythical better team they would all play smaller roles.

Starters: LMA, Roy. Maybe Blake (see Denver) maybe not (see Milwaukee).

Subs: Webster, Jack, Pryz, Jones (only because he's been a sub on other teams).

Scrubs: and the rest here on Pritchard's Island.

Sergio is the 3rd pg on a below ave. team, Outlaw's inconsistency dooms him. Frye is the doorman for the buffet, allowing the opposition all they can eat.

But these players are not set in concrete. Webster is proof enough that players can improve. I have every expectation that he will become a quality starter in the league. Sergio as well. LMA a star and probably Roy. I don't think Outlaw has the brain power to ever be more than a sub but that'd be better than a scrub and teams need subs.

But the bottom line is anything can happen in the future, good and bad. The question is today and today this team is made up of inexperienced jr. NBA'ers.

by jon on Nov 27, 2007 12:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well I don't have much to add but I do
have some questions for you all.

Ok so we are clearly very weak at point. We also, I was at the game last night, clearly are going DEEP in the lottery. I mean the sky is the limit the way 3 quarters were phoned in after a brilliant 1st quarter. So that said do we have a chance to nab Derrick Rose? Seriously, honestly vegas odds your life on the line gun to your head..."Can KP trade up to get Derrick Rose?" Beasley is going first barring a catastrophic injury and Mayo second after that there are a few players from 3-6 Gordon, Rose, those 7 footers etc. I honestly think Portland has a real shot at getting rose assuming the team with pick #1-#2 needs a big man or star quality shooting guard.

I want Rose like alot. I think he or possibly Eric Gordon (Can he play PG?) might have the missing piece to the puzzle ie the go for the jugular aspect.

My second question is this. Why not just play Green and Sergio to our hearts content and take the losses associated with them gaining experience? Blake isn't a long term piece and neither is Frye.

Finally as an aside We need to be doing tryouts for Oden and Co. at this point. We need to mimic that with Pryz as our Faux Oden until the big man returns. does anyone disagree with giving Pryz Odenesque minutes?

Give me the big man in the middle already. Even if it's Joel I want a True big man in the paint at all times. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Nov 27, 2007 1:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps not Rose,
but there are several good point guard prospects, probably three going in the first ten picks.  I expect us to have a top ten pick, so the chances of us getting a top ten prospect at point guard I would put at 50/50 right now.

With regard to your second question, I think with the starting line-up being so young (Roy, Webster, Aldridge and Frye have a total of about seven years of NBA experience) that someone who can get them in the right positions is important.  It's hard to teach how to play the right way when the other four guys are making rookie mistakes on half the plays.  However, getting our young guys some minutes, in situations where they can succeed is part of what this year is all about.  If Sergio averages twelve minutes a game for the season and Green gets some run from time to time I think that is sensible.

by EnglandDan on Nov 27, 2007 4:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My ratings for an average NBA team
I'm hoping we get better than average though.  

Stars:
LMA - athletic big who can shoot - would be 2nd leading scorer on average teams such as the Lak*rs
Oden hopefully

Starters:
B-Roy - probaly won't have a chance at an All Star game unless Portland is an elite team...even then it will be tough

Bench:
Jack
Pryzbilla - would be starter on team with a lot of offensive fire power around him
Martell - on his way to starter status
Blake
Sergio - has potential
Outlaw - dunk contest star if ever gets invited
Frye - closing in on scrub fast
Green
J. Jones

Scrubs:
LaFrentz

by JasonT on Nov 27, 2007 3:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Here's a comparison
.. that might show where some of our guys rate.

Player #1 - role, primary scorer and with decent rebounding and defense coming off the bench.

Player #2 - role, energy guy off the bench providng rebounding and disruptive defense.

Stats:       Pts   Rbs   Ast   Blk   Stl   TO

#1 (24min)   8.4   4.3   1.3   0.4   .74   1.4

#2 (29min)   8.7   6.6   1.0   1.6   1.3   1.0

Which guy do you think the Blazers could use more?

Player #1 is our own Travis Outlaw, whose athleticism and jumping ability has been what gets people excited.  

Player #2 is Jamario Moon (w/ the Raptors), an undrafted FA signing making the minimum.  Take a look at some video of this guy and you'll notice he brings exactly what Travis is supposed to provide - able to jump out of the gym, good length and athleticism.  He's not being asked nor is expected to score points.  Yet he's matching Outlaw, who is expected to look for his shots and average around double figures in shot attempts per game.

Granted it is early in the season, but this guy is in his first year in the league and already contributing at a clip the exceeds Outlaw, who is in his 5th season.  I'll even spot you the fact that Moon is 3-4 years older than Travis.  But he also hasn't had the opportunity to play and practice against the caliber of players Outlaw has.  4+ years of NBA experience should trump any advantage gained from living longer.

by timg56 on Nov 27, 2007 3:45 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wow
Even without seeing him that puts some things into perspective.

by tssbro on Nov 27, 2007 6:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At this time for an average normal team
Stars - none yet but hope for the future is high

Starters - L.A., Roy, Priz

Subs - Martell (almost starter quality), Jack, Blake, Outlaw, Frye (barely making this category), Jones (almost forgot about him), Sergio

Scrubs - Raef, Green, McRob

Oden, Rudy, and what's his name (oh yeah Darius) don't count this year

by ColoradoBlazerFan on Nov 27, 2007 5:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Now
Stars
Roy - I am calling him a star because the title ROY has given him a name recognition around the league.  It could wear off though if he underperforms over the next couple of years.  I also think most teams would make room for him at their weakest position of 1, 2, or 3 depending on who their strong players are.  He would find his way onto the court.

Oden - I don't care if he hasn't played a game.  He has star quality and name recognition and hopefully a game to back it up.  

Starters -
Aldridge would probably start for most teams around the league.  Same as Roy, if a team had a dominant PF he would start at center and vice versa.  If he wasn't starting he would get quality minutes.

Subs/Starters -
Jack, Blake, and Pryzbilla would be on the fence depending on the team.  They would all be valuable pieces that would add depth to any teams bench if they didn't crack the starting line-up.  But I would say they would be bench players on the upper tier teams for sure.

Subs -
Webster - I have him here because of youth.  He is certainly headed in the direction of being a viable starter for the Blazers and any team but probably would still be on the bench but in the rotation for most teams.

Frye hasn't shown that he can start on a team under .500.  That isn't good.  I hold out hope that we haven't seen him play close to his best.

Outlaw - I have never loved his game but have always hoped it would all come together for him some day.  Someday looks further away this year than last but I still think he would get some minutes for most teams because of his versatility.

Scrub -
Sergio - He is young and full of potential but he isn't bringing it yet.  I don't think he would get time for very many teams.  He is a project.

Raef - He would be riding the pine at this point for anybody.  He looks done.

The rest (Miles, Green, McRoberts, and even Jones) I don't think I have seen enough to make a judgment.  Of those, Jones would be the one who could have an impact on a team most likely from the bench.
 

by tssbro on Nov 27, 2007 6:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Just what is a "star," anyway?
Feeling like I can finally show my face around here now that my boys did some of your dirty work and knocked off the NW division's big dog last night...

Reading through some of the comments here, I was struck by just how nebulous the term "star" really is. Judging by the fact that most of the posters here do not regard the team's two best players - Roy and Aldridge - as "stars" leads me to believe that for many people, a star is fundamentally a player who can create shots on their own, in almost any circumstance. LeBron, Kobe, Wade, TMac all possess this ability and - not surprisingly - all are regarded as the game's brightest stars.

No argument there, of course. But it also begs the question of whether that constitutes a too narrow definition of the term. I remember a few years back, when Amare was having his monster breakout season (before his microfracture), there was a two week or so period when Nash was out with an injury and Amare's production took a significant dip. Now most people, if asked, would readily acknowledge that Amare is a star. Yet one wonders, if Amare did not have Nash or some other top-flite PG steadily feeding him in the low post, would that perception still hold?  

Applying this thinking to Portland, there is absolutely no doubt in my non-Blazer-biased mind that in the right situation, Roy and Aldridge would already be considered stars (one only need look at what Roy was able to do last season with Zach drawing attention down in the low block.) However, the shortcomings of this year's supporting cast, when coupled with their relative limitations in creating shots on their own, feeds the perception that Roy and Aldridge are not "star quality" talent.

Believe me, I understand your frustration Blazerfan (I am Knickfan. Hear me roar.) I know how gut wrenching it is to watch Brandon blow layup after layup while 2-3 defenders dog his every step.  So I certainly don't begrudge you your kvetching which is, after all, our god-given right as fans.

But, as many of the sage ones on this site have repeatedly counselled, a little perspective caint hurt neither. So, in that spirit, let's turn the situation around and attempt to view things from a reverse perspective. Try and imagine how some of the other NBA shooting guards or power forwards that are widely regarded as star calibre would fare on this team in lieu of Brandon of LaMarcus.  How do you think, say, Ginobili would do? Or Bosh (who Lamarcus greatly reminds me of, BTW)? Boozer? Kevin Martin?

Gotta run - time to stick some more pins into my James Dolan voodoo doll...

by knickfan on Nov 27, 2007 8:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Nice
Which reminds me of a post I need to post today.  Many thanks!

--Dave

by Dave on Nov 28, 2007 12:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post
Liking the non-Blazer perspective.
"Now, we understand, you're a bug. And bugs will be bugs. But you're our bug now. Don't screw up, and you won't get squashed." - webted

by jamon51 on Nov 28, 2007 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right Now
Stars

Roy -- Borrowing from knickfan's perspective (thanks btw), lets say Roy got traded straight up for Ginobli before this season.  Is there any doubt that he's going to the All-Star game?  Also, "Makes his teammates better" is seriously underrated in this league.

Starters

LMA -- Using the same method as above, lets say he got traded straight up for Dwight Gooden at Clevland.  He may be wearing 5 rings ten years from now, but he would be a long shot to even make the All-Star game in the watered down East this year.

Blake -- I can't think of any non-elite PG I would take over him.

Valuable Role Players (I like that better than starter/sub)

Pryz
Webster (on his way up, lets hope he learns to play D)

Subs

Jack
Outlaw
Frye
Jones

Scrubs
Darius
Raef

Incomplete
Oden
Taureen
McRob
Sergio

by Gargen on Nov 27, 2007 11:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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