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This just in: Martell Webster to START

Guys,

I can hardly contain my excitement, but never have I felt more proud and elated at being right about my gut feelings towards a player.

I knew that Martell was, offensively, an ideal prototype at SF for a team that will command double teams in the backcourt (Roy) and on the block (LMA).

According to Jason Quick, Martell will start on Friday night vs. Sacramento and--more importantly--is welcomed by NateMac to take the starting role:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2007/10/has_martell_won_the_starting_j.html

I sincerely hope that this works out for the best for Martell, Outlaw, and the team.

If so, I may see one of my fave players on the team start in the home opener.

I just posted a poll in my last diary that dealt with this subject, but I wish to ask the question once more in a more simplified and direct manner, just as in the headline on Quick's blog.

If you believe Martell has all but won the job, feel free to explain why and how you think this will impact the team, positively or negatively.

If you believe it is still Outlaw or Jones, please do the same.

Lastly, if you think it is Martell, what factors do you think will play into him KEEPING the starting job for all 82 games.  Specifically, how will this impact team dynamics with the starting and second units.

MY TAKE:  If Nate believes it is a good thing, then I don't think Martell is gonna screw this up.  He's arrived, in my opinion, and we're likely to see more of the same from him, although perhaps in a less "electric" fashion, as Quick so eloquently put it.  I didn't feel that Martell was best in the starting unit because of his relatively poor track record on defense, and because I thought that the second unit would benefit most from his firepower.  But if Nate feels otherwise, I'm more than willing to see how it plays out and hope for the best.

Poll
Has Martell Webster won the starting job for opening night?
2: No, with at least 75% certainty
5 votes
1: No way in heck will he start
2 votes
5: Absolutely--without a doubt
14 votes
4: Yes, with at least 75% certainty
86 votes
3: His chances are about even
71 votes

178 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 73 comments

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Comments

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He has it...
as long as he doesnt revert back to the know it all he was. He is with good company right now and he will be able to shine. He wont shine because of what he does, he will shine because of what the TEAM does.
"OK, it's going to rain tomorrow. And there is going to be a Greenpeace meeting and hippies are going to be protesting" ~ The Buffet of Goodness on Portland

by Blazer on Oct 15, 2007 8:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I haven't been a Martell fan
but of course he could win me over by playing well for a meaningful stretch of games.

Injuries are always a factor and it may be that James Jones's injury has been martell's good fortune.

I'm not an outlaw fan so I'm ok with martell as a starter in that regard.

But I'm certainly not convinced yet as I'm more persuaded by 160 regular season games then by 3 preseason games.

by moldorf on Oct 15, 2007 9:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't blame you
but in this league it's "what have you done for me lately" and, during the preseason so far, Martell has shown some consistency and aggressiveness we haven't seen before.

Also, those 160 games were in his first two seasons, which are typically struggling years, especially for guys drafted out of high school.

His poor attitude and the negative influences that surrounded him didn't help.

Now, with a more familial environment and an open-minded approach, I believe we will see the Martell Webster we hoped to see after his brilliant pre-draft workout in 2005.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 15, 2007 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope he pans out
or that $10 I spent on my Webster jersey shirt is just money down the drain

by jonestr on Oct 15, 2007 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha
same except i spent 3 bucks

couldnt pass it up...on the real though, if he gets it all together he has the skillset to be the player we need at the 3...so i'm happy to see any sign that he may be doing that

when we really need to buckle down we could have a long defensive lineup with outlaw at the 3...and otherwise outlaw can run the break better on the 2nd unit, which, assuming jack starts and frye subs in for pryz, will probably run a little more

by DominicanAvenger on Oct 15, 2007 11:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Martell's reward?
The Quick article stresses Nate's feeling that the first unit needs outside shooting while the second unit needs instant offense.  Martell's been stroking the ball, and Travis showed late last season that he's comfortable being a 6th man with the green light.  So this move makes sense from that standpoint.

But I wonder if Nate isn't also sending a message by (tentatively) giving Martell the starting three slot.  That is, if you work your butt off, you'll be rewarded.  By all accounts, Martell outworked Outlaw this off-season by a long shot.

by hurryup09 on Oct 15, 2007 11:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You said it all
  1. Travis is better on (and for) the second unit, where he'll be the main scorer.
  2. Martell's distance shooting will be better on the first unit, and make the first unit better.
  3. Martell has done more to earn it than Travis.

The wildcard is James Jones, and this is the part that isn't completely clear to me.  Does he drop to #3 on the depth chart?  Does he play the 2 in the second unit, beside Travis, making the second unit very big?  Do we go small in the second unit with Frye, Travis, Jones, and two of our PGs?

I can see Martell as Roy's backup in the second unit, but if he starts at the 3 (which I think he should), it isn't obvious to me what the second unit looks like.

by jscot on Oct 16, 2007 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's the back-up 2?
The fact is, the Blazers are very thin at the 2 position.  Martell is better suited to play the 3.  If Blake starts at the 1, then Jack has the size to be the back-up 2.  But I think Nate really likes Jack as his starting point guard, and Blake is on the small side to play the 2.  

It's almost like the Blazers have decided to get by without a true back-up 2 this year because Rudy is coming next season.

by hurryup09 on Oct 16, 2007 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

James Jones
BTW, my hunch re/ Jones is that the Blazers see him as insurance in case Martell doesn't pan out at the 3.  Martell would seem to have more upside in that he's shown signs of becoming more than just a spot-up shooter.  By contrast, Jones seems established as strictly a 3-point specialist.  He actually shot a higher percentage from 3-point land than 2 last year (37.8% to 36.8%).

Defense is another issue.  We know that Martell has a ways to go in that dept, and we've heard reports that Jones is an above-average defender.  But no one has said Jones is a stopper, and Martell seems dedicated to improving at the defensive end.  

So I'd say that unless Martell loses his shooting touch and shows no improvement defensively, he'll start and Outlaw & Jones will come off the bench.  (Travis might end up playing a lot of 4.)  

by hurryup09 on Oct 16, 2007 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3-man rotation
If Jack starts, we might see Blake come in for Roy, with Jack shifting over to the 2, and just using a 3 man rotation.  It's just that they want to keep Roy's minutes down to 35, so a 3 man rotation may not be that great over the course of a season.

I think you are right about waiting for Rudy to arrive.  But have you ever heard anything that indicated they thought Martell would be starting before preseason started?  It was basically Travis or Jones, so I think they saw Martell as Roy's backup.  If he forces his way into the starting line-up, then you have to adjust -- but what a good problem to have, that Martell is playing well enough that you have to consider starting him.

by jscot on Oct 16, 2007 4:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3-man rotation
For creating the backup 2, I also think it will come from the 3 guard rotation and don't see any problem with Roy getting to many minutes this way.  The 3 guards could average 32 minutes a piece this way.  In addition, to Jack/Steve serving as the 2 guard back up,  Green is sure to get  minutes at the point since Nate really likes him, but I would think these would just be spot/situational minutes since big guards should be able to post Green up with no problem.

by mrwonderfull on Oct 17, 2007 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

People keep talking about posting up Green
If you can post a point guard now a days with the Zone Defense allowed, one question. Why haven't we been hearing Wheel says "So and So now backs in Green looking to post up". I think the answer is because The "Thrilla" has pitched a tent in the key and is currently roasting marshmallows there. Post up Green and welcome to weak side blocks from Pryz and LMA.

Obviously if Green was starting and getting 30 minutes a game we might see it more. I personally don't think that is likely however. Green's height to me isn't a big issue as long as he doesn't crazily drive into the pain looking to score all the time. He has shown that tendency now and then. His biggest weakness thus far seems to be over shooting. He needs to play within himself more. Other then that I just plain love this guy. He really doesn't make many mistakes other then pulling the trigger too often.

October, October, October, October, October...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Oct 17, 2007 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good call
A good defender finds ways to pester those that post him up, too.

He managed to slow down Cassell, who is a great post-up guard.

If he does struggle with a bigger guard, we have plenty of big guards of our own to choose from on the bench.

I don't think it's that big of a concern considering how much he brings to the table.

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Oct 17, 2007 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is pretty straight forward
At least to me. He has a ton of potential as an outside shooter and a 3rd scorer, both of which we really need. He was in a bad state of mind which happens a lot at that age (think of when you were a freshman in college and what you were doing.  Now give yourself a few million dollars, a ton of fame and you spend every day with a guy like Randolph. How would that look?) The thing is, he overcame his struggles it sounds like. His head is in a good place, he has a good environment and has put a lot of work into this off season. He is in much better shape than last season, so there is a lot more to go with than the first 3 games. There is the last 6 months that he was on his own which he came out of really well. It sounds like he's serious, and Nate sees something that supersedes the past 2 years. From an outsider it looks like a promising sign. Hopefully it looks even better from the view on the bench.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just like... your opinion. Man."

by einman77 on Oct 16, 2007 12:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

HA!!!
Well said and may we NEVER go back to those years!!!
We applied the cortical electrodes but we're unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

by ratbastird on Oct 16, 2007 6:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

FINALLY
Outlaw is a better option off the bench anyway.

Martell wants it.

We have been waiting for this.

by Jaketron on Oct 16, 2007 12:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is a nice positive
Good job Webster and keep up the good work.  You've done well so far, but it's only preseason.  Let's see it night in and night out for a year.  

I rooted for you in the draft and got you, so why don't you make me look like I'm a genius or something now, K?  It'll make up for the last couple of years that I've had mud on my face.  I said third year you'd break out, and it's here.

K, tanx bye

We applied the cortical electrodes but we're unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

by ratbastird on Oct 16, 2007 6:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not voting
because there are still two games and lots of practices to go.  I also remember when they tried starting Martell before and it didn't work out - he also was better off the bench.  Now if there really is a "new" Martell - hallelujah - I'll be delighted for him (and us).  But I'm going to wait a bit longer before I am convinced that he has truly come of age.
This team is going to get scary..! - "Rasta bird" 10/14/07

by jorga on Oct 16, 2007 8:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

yes
i completely agree you. after a sub-average career so far, 3 pre-season games simply is not enough of a data set to make any predictions of future success.

I'm going to have to wait until he strings together at least a handful of strong games in the regular season. The pre-season is simply not an effective barometer of anything. I really really hope Martell has turned a corner, because it would help the team immensely and somewhat vindicate the decision to essentially use the #3 pick on him.

I think Dave said earlier that the pre-season doesn't account for much. Success in the pre-season, albeit it's a good sign, isn't indicative of much. Now, if Martell was struggling, then it'd be a serious issue.

by ssa400 on Oct 16, 2007 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ditto
what Jorga and SSA400 posted! It's way too early to tell or to be shamlessly taking credit for predicting his stardom :=). He has a long way to go.  Maybe he will start on opening night, but he'll have to keep bringing it if he's to remain there.

I'm still not sure that the SG position is suited for him.  I've always looked at him as a 2, and he may still get a lot of minutes there if Roy's heel doesn't heal.    

by TwoDeep on Oct 16, 2007 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lucky for you
I've quit drinking!

I hope you understand that I wasn't taking credit for anything other than feeling good about recent events, and my feeling that he would surpass Outlaw as the top SF on the current roster.  If that happens, all the credit goes to Martell.

Your points are very valid.  It is only 3 preseason games.  But it is not useless info.

How could you be concerned about his performance if it was poor without taking note about his performance if it is superlative?  That's contradictory, at best.

After all, look how much concern Outlaw's performance has generated so far.

Should we discount that just because preseason games don't get you in the playoffs?

For an average winning team, the preseason is almost meaningless.

But for a team like ours, which is in a crucial developmental phase, I say that preseason games are VERY important.  Not because we win or lose, but because they present an opportunity for young players to battle for playing time and starting roles, and for the team to experiment with and forge its identity.

An opportunity that Martell and The Blazers, clearly, have seized and relished.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arriving in great shape
and speaking of humility and coachability are more meaningful to me than his three game stats.

by ojala on Oct 16, 2007 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

GREAT POINT
Beyond the stats, the intangible foundation for his future in the NBA is probably the story of the year for the Blazers.

He is a prime candidate for Most Improved Player.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not in the slightest
but I'm guilty, as most of us, of actually EXPECTING Lamarcus to have the banner year he's going to have.

Webster has been a shock to a lot of people, even in Portland.

If they both go on to have breakthrough seasons, I would give the nod for Most Improved Player to Web only because LMA had such a strong rookie year to begin with.

But you bring up a good subject:  some of us in the know are perhaps taking LMA's quantum leap, in what is usually a "slump" year, for granted.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 17, 2007 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMA
Webster may improve by leaps and bounds this year.  But I think that, barring injury, LMA will be voted the NBA's "Most Improved Player."  Not just because of his actual improvement, but because the league is ignorant of how good LMA was LAST year.  Between Roy's R.O.Y. season, LMA's slow start due to injury, the heart thing, and playing behind Zach or out of position at center most of the year, LMA hardly got noticed.  

As a result, when LMA picks up where he left off last season, folks around the league will think he's come out of nowhere.  Voila: "Most Improved."

by hurryup09 on Oct 17, 2007 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point
One of the many advantages of our relative anonymity.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 17, 2007 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well actually
the comment wasn't even directed at your post.

by TwoDeep on Oct 16, 2007 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks all for participating
in this diary.

The problem of a back-up 2 is one I didn't consider when I wrote it.

Try this:

Starting 5:

PG: Jack
SG: Roy
SF: Web
PF: LMA
C:  Pryz

Second unit:

PG:  Green/Sergio
SG:  Blake
SF:  Jones
PF:  Outlaw
C:   Frye/LaFrentz

Limited playing time for The Surge, Green, and Raef.

Sounds alright to me, as long as Web adjusts well to a starting role.

Oh and BTW, imagine how many more open looks Web will get with Oden in that starting lineup!!

I'm so stoked it's not even funny.  

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 8:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

mmm
Is Blake a better two than either Green or Sergio?  It seems like they both have played more SG in the pre-season than Steve has.  

At this moment I would consider starting Blake and putting JJ1 at the two with the second unit.

This team is going to get scary..! - "Rasta bird" 10/14/07

by jorga on Oct 16, 2007 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Post
I don't like Green or Sergio at the two simply because of size.  Sergio can't defend and Green shouldn't defend someone six to 7 inches taller than him.

I think your suggestion works great but there's one catch:  Steve Blake hasn't earned a starting spot.

While I like Jack better than Blake at the 2, and believe the second unit could use him more, I don't think you punish Jack to the bench because Martell has stepped up.

It would contradict Nate's philosophy of rewarding the players that work harder and play more effectively.

It's not by a longshot, but right now I give the nod to Jack for the starting PG spot.

Well, actually, I give it to Green based on play alone, but it's way too soon to crown a 2nd round pick with no regular season experience.  It would be a total slap in the face to Blake and Jack and a rather extreme move overall.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Back-up two dilemma
As I mentioned above, the Blazers are thin at the two.  I suggested that Jack was the most logical choice to back up Roy this season from a physical standpoint.  He's listed at the same height as Blake @ 6-3, but is much stronger at 197 lb (vs 172).  Even at that, Jack isn't built to deal with some of the big, high scoring 2's of the league.  Kobe, McGrady, et al would light him up.  Remember how big 2's loved to post up Juan Dixon (another undersized 2)?  That killed the Blazers night in and night out.  But who else do the Blazers have? Green is tough, but he's only 6-0, and Sergio is a matador on the defensive end.  And Jones strikes me as too slowfooted to stay with most 2-guards.  

My impression is that Nate really likes Jack as the starting point guard.  That means that, with Webster's emergence at the 3, Blake will generally come off the bench at the 2.  Blake's not a stopper, but he's big and defensive-minded enough to at least have a chance guarding 2-guards.  It's not an ideal situation, but there you are.  I can't see the Blazers making a move to acquire another 2 when they have Rudy coming over from Europe next season.  This is just a situation the Blazers will have to work around this year.

by hurryup09 on Oct 16, 2007 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said
Blake is the best defender of 2-guards we have, to include Roy OR Rudy.

Which is one of the reasons I've felt that Blake could be a mainstay on this team, despite his age, when we are contending for championships in 3-5 years.

We need that defensive stopper off the bench to contain the Kobe's and Durant's of the world.

Although ideally, I would prefer Nicholas Batum to take that role (somehow I don't see Blake slowing down Durant in the slightest).

Come on, ping pong ball!

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems clear that we have a 3 guard rotation
Roy/Jack/Blake

All three have the size and skills to play at either position. Without guestion Roy starts.  I see Roy playing about 35 minutes with both Jack and Blake playing about 30.  Blake or Jack will be the first guard off the bench subbing at either pg or sg. That leaves a minute for sergio/green.  

Green and Sergio will only play when the team experiences foul trouble, injuries, blowouts (wins or losses) or matchup problems (small quick point guards).

by jayjaylbh on Oct 16, 2007 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What you're saying
makes sense, and it's what I would be led to believe by reason alone, but Nate seems to think otherwise.

Apparently, somehow, Green has found his way into Nate's heart and he has said that he intends to play him in the 4th quarter of some close games.

From the sound of his interview with Jason Quick, it didn't seem that he was referring to just blowouts or other special situations.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Struggling
I am struggling a bit to understand the need for two set units of all five positions.  Most playoff teams shorten their rotations to eight maybe nine guys near the end of the season anyway.  
If Roy plays for the bulk of the season and averages 30-35 minutes, that only leaves 12-18 minutes without him on the floor.  If you move Jack to the two for most of those minutes with any of the other PGs you can also roll Martell out at the two with Outlaw or Jones playing the three for a few and even play with Green at the 2 on offense and Blake at the two on defense for some stretches.

The issue is more of a flow of the game than it is having 2 distinct units with all five positions clearly defined.  It seems we have the versatility to cover the spot without having a problem of finding minutes for two guys who can only play one position.

(I know Dave doesn't like the versatility idea but I thought I would try it out in this context.)

by tssbro on Oct 17, 2007 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course...
If we lose Roy for a long stretch it would be nice to have a pure 2 guard to fill in for him.

This is usually the point in the conversation (at least at this time of night) when I think, "Wouldn't that be something if Darius returned from his injury and was really a changed guy with all the other effort guys around him on the team and played hard and..." then I wake up from dozing off at the keyboard.

by tssbro on Oct 17, 2007 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, just for an update...
Does anyone regret adding Dan Dickau and Fred Jones to the Randolph deal in order to keep Webster?

As much as I'll miss Jones and Dickau, Webster might've turned into the shooter missing from the Knicks roster...

by Champs2009 on Oct 16, 2007 8:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hah!
Great observation, if indeed that was the decision we made.

I always hoped they would display more patience towards his learning curve, and I'm glad that we've retained the opportunity to benefit from his growth spurt as opposed to crying over spilt milk after a trade (Jermaine O'neal, anyone?).

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ironically,
I think that Webster would have continued to suffer in new york.  Then we would have said "we did the right thing" in that situation too.

I think there are a lot of good players out there, but they have to be in the right situations to be able to really shine.

How good would would nash be in a half court game?

Randoms thought.  

We applied the cortical electrodes but we're unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

by ratbastird on Oct 17, 2007 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now we know the *real* reason fatty left.

Didn't wanna be around when Martell became da man.  

:)

Anyone heard from the fatster, btw?

by EngineerScotty on Oct 16, 2007 9:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I only wish
I, for one, have thoroughly enjoyed the absence of His Fatness, but it has more to do with his own baseless and arrogant assumptions, and stubbornness, than a fear of Martell's success.

After all, if that were the case, he'd be pooping his pants at the sight of Rudy Fernandez making the All-Rookie team next season while smoking a pack a day.

Here's hoping he bans himself by making another ridiculous assumption that proves false, so long as it doesn't involve injury to one of our players.

I know it's not popular opinion, but I also know I'm not alone in thinking it:

Blazer's Edge is a more amenable, intelligent, and productive forum WITHOUT fatty in it.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a homer...
Only criticizing the player once he has left the team? Not providing Any positive aspects of the other Blazer blogs? What is this, Rice and Barrett?

Only joking! In light of the Jaynes article...

I'm stoked on Martell. I thought he might have turned out a bust, but am more than happy that he is showing consistency, albeit just in the preseason so far. I think it will carry over.

by Sarbonis on Oct 16, 2007 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah!
That was good.

But what can I do, I'm employed by the team...

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How exactly
are you employed by the team? Just curious.
October, October, October, October, October...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Oct 16, 2007 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...
that this is a joke, but I could be mistaken and broggerboy here is taking the risk of getting dooced.

by Sarbonis on Oct 16, 2007 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a
light-hearted stab at the Blazers broadcasters.

Purely tongue-in-cheek, my friend.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta keep up on the posts dog!
But you made me laugh, and that was good.
We applied the cortical electrodes but we're unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

by ratbastird on Oct 17, 2007 6:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotcherback BB
I don't miss fatty's unsubstantiated character assination of fellow travelers here at all.

I do miss his frequently insightful observations, but not enough.

by ojala on Oct 16, 2007 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've come to
the same conclusion.

He was good for some comic relief, perhaps even insight on rare occasions.

But there were too many instances where he went totally over the line in defending an obviously insane point of view, to the point where he dragged the level of conversation down to that of the forum on oregonlive.com.

I'm pretty sure most of us come here to avoid juvenile venues such as that, for some real discussion with serious and respectful sports fans.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I miss fatty
He was the first guy I would look for to either make me laugh by trying to be funny or to make me laugh by being so vehement about positions that could never be substantiated but had some chance of being true.  Nobody can book it like fatty.

by tssbro on Oct 16, 2007 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fatty
Fatty was the Stephen A. Smith of blazersedge.com...

by nlj on Oct 17, 2007 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I must disagree.
I've never observed Smith to value the fans or the game, fatty was obnoxious, but he genuinely seemed(seems) to care.

by ojala on Oct 17, 2007 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I call BS
The guy made extremely insensitive comments to several people in this forum.

You don't count as genuine by being loving and kind to a select few while being a jerk to everyone else, especially if it's for no reason at all.

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Oct 17, 2007 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

selective caring
Okay-

Care about good basketball, as he defined it, of course, and about his peeps.

by ojala on Oct 18, 2007 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good and Bad
There's good and bad in all of us.  Some people do a better job of hiding the bad than others, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.  I could see a lot to like in him, and some things to not like.

In general, I find I'm happier with other people, and they are happier with me, if I spend more time thinking about and talking about the good, rather than the bad.  

Perhaps it's my faith that drives that, and the thought that I'm actually supposed to love my neighbor as myself.  If Christ had to command his followers to do that, that means it isn't always easy to do -- otherwise, He wouldn't have had to tell us to do it.

No point in bashing on a guy who isn't here, that I can see.  That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

by jscot on Oct 18, 2007 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
there's actually no point in bashing anyone.

I just felt resentful towards some of the comments he made, but I'm sure he did it in part because he felt hurt, threatened, or maybe was just in a bad place at the time.

I can empathize with that.

Thanks for bringing me back to Earth, now let's get back to some basketball.

What's the over/under on Martell's points in the next game now that Roy is back?

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Oct 18, 2007 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm optimistic
They can't key on him like Atlanta did, with Roy back.  I'll say 18.

That's assuming he keeps getting PT.  If he goes for 12 in the first quarter, Nate may decide he's seen enough and want to watch other people.  But I'm assuming, if Jones is out, that Martell still gets some minutes.

He's due a bad game soon, but I think it won't happen on Brandon's first game back.

by jscot on Oct 18, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've got
LMA at 20, Roy with 15 and Martell with 10.

by ojala on Oct 18, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm
Sacramento...Roy is gonna have his hands full with Kevin Martin, and it's his first game.

Both Web & LMA blew up in the last home game.

I'll stab:

Roy:  17pts
LMA:  25pts
Web:  19pts

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Oct 18, 2007 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3rd Year Glimmers?
Rashard Lewis averaged 2.4 pts and 7.3 minutes in 20 games his rookie year. 2nd year? 8.2 pts and 19.2 minutes in 82 games. 3rd year? 14.8 pts and 34.9 minutes in 78 games. Wouldn't shock me if, with starter minutes, Martell matched that. I wonder if he can average 6.9 rebounds a game like Lewis did that third year though....

by nlj on Oct 16, 2007 10:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I generally agree with brogger here
and am happy that he's feeling the joy of having a guy he likes start to do well.  It's part of being a fan.

I would comment that we sometimes get too wrapped up in predicting lineups and who will play what position.  As much as I think about how it might look if an NBA team tried utilizing a 10 man, 1st & 2nd unit scheme, the truth is that today's game is as much about matchups as anything else.  While I would like to see a coach challenge that (and I think that coaches like Popovich and Nelson do to some extent), it's what we are most likely to see.

If what we've seen so far from Martell in the preseason holds true, then it doesn't really matter whether he's playing SG or SF.  If we assume his hard work and performance has earned him a starting position, it's likely at SF.  But that doesn't stop Nate from giving him minutes at SG, with both the first and second units.  In many ways, both positions are similar.  How they get utilized usually depends on what personnel you have.

Ray Allen is a shooter who plays nominal defense, rebounds about average for a 2, is decent at driving to the rim and ok at bringing the ball up court. Webster has the potential to be nearly as good a shooter and a better driver and rebounder.  His starting at SG or SF in any given game may depend on defensive matchups at the other end.

I think the most impressive sign I've seen from Martell in 3 pre-season games is how he played in Atlanta when they focused on stopping him on offense.  He rebounded and drove to the rim, getting FT opportunities.  That's a sign of a player thinking and understanding the game.  

by timg56 on Oct 16, 2007 1:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point
Depending on matchups, the distinction between the 2 and the 3 can be moot.

by hurryup09 on Oct 16, 2007 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

fast break nuances of Martell and Travis
Maybe Martell would be more suited to play SF in the first unit. And maybe Travis would be more suited to play SF or PF in the second unit. I suppose it depends on which unit is more of a fast break unit. It also depends, of course, on whether Martell or Travis is the better fast break player.

So I pose the question: Is Travis or Martell the better fast break player?

Follow-up question: Does the answer to the first question depend on whether Martell is playing SG or SF? If so, which position is Martell better suited for when our team is on the fast break?

And what about Travis? Is he better suited for the fast break as a SF or a PF?

When church and state marry, the devil pays for the reception.

by fisheyes on Oct 16, 2007 2:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Typically
your guards and SF are the first out in the open floor.  

But, overall, I would downplay the role of well-defined positions in a fast-break offense.

A dunk or layin is the same for a PG or a Center--it's all about who gets up the floor quickest and finishes/passes with the most accuracy.

I would think Martell excels more in a halfcourt set, and Outlaw on the break.

That would make Outlaw more conducive to a fast second unit, if Sergio is ready to lead that charge at some point down the road.

But Travis will need to display more authority finishing at the rim.  It seems to be a weak spot in his game as of right now, though we all know the potential is there for him to be a Garnett-type finisher at the hoop.  As with most of his deficiencies, the problem is likely psychological.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Psychological?
I would argue that most of Martell's and Outlaw's deficiencies have to do with experience (especially the fundamentals they could have gained in college).  

A three pointer before the defense has a chance is also an important part of the fast break offense.  Who does that favor?    

by jayjaylbh on Oct 16, 2007 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make a valid point,
but I wouldn't reduce their problems on the court simply to a lack of training, either.  By now, even without collegiate experience, they have had basketball fundamentals drilled into them for over three years.  That's more exposure than a lot of rookies out of college receive these days.  

It takes maturity, initiative, and self-discipline--all psychological features--to adopt & integrate that exposure into success on the hardwood.  Martell has had the same amount of college as Outlaw has, but he is experiencing a resurgence as of late in part due to his increased effort & maturity.  Do you think it's possible that Outlaw is struggling due to lack of the same?

PS., You bring up a good point about Martell's ability to punish a defense from long-range on the break.  This could have the effect of spreading a defense, even on the run, for deeper penetration by the ball-handler and wings.  Do you feel that this, in itself, makes Martell a better fast-break asset than Outlaw?

by broggerboy19 on Oct 16, 2007 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to be mean
Just wondering how Outlaw is better on the break if he needs to work on finishing around the hoop?  

Also, Martell seems to be flourishing (if you can even say that about 3 pre season games) in the open court with the faster pace this year.  The last two years, the ones in which he did not produce, he played in mostly half-court sets.  How then does he excel in half-court sets?

Anyway, just trying to follow the logic.  Maybe I missed something.

by tssbro on Oct 17, 2007 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
I think the faster pace is part of what Martell needed.

Although perhaps his problem in half court sets last year was the kind of half court set we ran -- dump it in and watch Zach do whatever he was going to do.  A motion offense suits Martell better.

Fact: with the limited evidence of what we've seen so far, Martell wants it more than Travis, he's in far better condition, and he is better in both the open court and the half court than Travis.  That may change, either because the Martell of the last two years may return, or because Travis may step up.  But that's the way it looks right now.

by jscot on Oct 17, 2007 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No worries
I don't think you're being mean at all.

It's a good question, and I think you're right.

My logic is flawed.

Why?

I'm basing my vision of Outlaw's game on the open floor based on where his game SHOULD be, as opposed to where it actually IS.

Truth is that he's not even in shape right now, which is a pretty crappy thing if you're trying to beat everyone up the floor with some consistency and slam it home.

So I'll retract my statement and concur with jscot:  Martell is more effective, right now, no matter what kind offense we're running.

PS., I think jscot answered your question about the half-court set as well.  There are a LOT of reasons why he will excel in a free-flowing half-court game.  Roy, Oden, and LMA are three of them.

by broggerboy19 on Oct 17, 2007 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cool
I always worry about tone in print.  I can't wait to actually see them play.  I will be going to the Seattle game next Wednesday and just read Roy most likely will play in that game.  I can't wait.

by tssbro on Oct 17, 2007 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Consider yourself lucky
I won't get to see them play in person until the home opener!

Counting the days...

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Oct 17, 2007 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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